I find the extra power of Modest amusing, also, I haven't seen an adamant luke in ages.
It's an option anyways
It's an option anyways
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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
Azure Demon
Guest
1st: first timid star is the specs star
2nd: hummm bullet punch or through screens which is very popular on teams
3rd: you just supported my e-speed scarf flygon outspeeds all raikous timid or not but who gets the jump on it e-speed raikou. So think before you talk next time if you are arguing against something
4th: I'll ask this question again who leaves starime or any special attack in on raikou any damn way
5th: for the answer to all of your questions return to the last page and actually read this time because you repeated all the same questions and made the same points I've already punched holes in.
6th: there are 6 pokemon on. A team 1 doesn't have to cover them all
t-tar if one comes in on raikou don't you think that would be a give away
Crimson Assassin, I think what Raikou should stick to is Sp.Atking. Granted, ExtremeSpeed is a fantastic move, the potency of Sp.ATK lost from using a mixed set for that over something like is just not worth it. Also, in the place of Extreme Speed, you could use Aura Sphere as PseudoBoltBeam(HP Ice) and Aura Sphere has fantastic coverage.
Raikou a mixed sweeper? Is this a joke? 85 Atk with a normal 80 Base Power move does not make you a mixed sweeper. And wasting so much EVs to not even 2HKO Starmie with it, even when the standard CM sets can beat Starmie anyway. My points are all valid. Yes a Mixed Sweeper is always going to be defensively weaker, but what advantage does Raikou get from using a Rash Nature? Scarftar still beats it down, which is the main if not only reason for using Aura Sphere, even though it doesn't OHKO him without Calm Mind.
Have you looked at other Mixed Sweepers? Do you know what they have in common? Salamence, has huge Atk/SpA, as well as a STAB or SE movepool with 3 moves. Infernape, has 100+ Atk/SpA, as well as high speed, and a great move pool, allowing it to lay waste to basically everything, with its STABs hitting so many generic OU walls hard, and Grass Knot to take down those bulky waters, bar Tenta and Vappy. So what else does a mixed sweeper need to be good? A reason to be mixed, that is having good/powerful/usable moves from both Atk/SpA sides, or a move that complements the other. Raikou meets none of these, a 80 Base Power priority move does nothing for Raikou, he is already base 115 speed, its just a waste of a moveslot.
Do you seriously think the CM/ShadowBall/HPIce/Tbolt set is bad? REALLY? It has BoltBeam, which gives extremely good coverage, Shadow Ball also helps it take down Celebi better than HP Ice, as well as Rotom, Hidden Power Ice means you can beat Mence's that have not DDd as well as Ground types which are immune to your STAB, although this is rather precautionary, and Thunderbolt hits everything else hard.
Ok tell me, what advantage do you have over the standard Timid/Modest variants?
Timid (CM/ShadowBall/Tbolt/HPIce)
>Beats the pokes listed below, and has great coverage, only resisted is Magnezone
>More Bulky without the SpD drop
>More powerful, as you are not wasting EVs in Attack..
Rash (CM/Thunderbolt/AuraSphere/Extremespeed)
>Loses to Gliscor, Celebi, Rotom, and MUCH more without a CM up
>Can revenge things that have almost no health left....
Azure Demon
Guest
Ok thank you.
If I could
I would run
cm aura, sphere, hp grass, t-bolt way better coverage
away: it's true he loses some attack but honestly as I previously stated there are many situations where it is quite useful
and I said all sets have flaws I understand this one is no different but this one has many many many bonuses. As I said don't knock it untill you try it
Shizzle: I'm done speaking with you as apparently you can't even read properly. when you can go back and show me where I said shadow ball/t-bolt/hp ice is bad then I'll continue to converse with you.
Also, aura sphere kills off t-tar which yours doesn't magnezone where yours doesn't plus can kill many things who will normally rape a regular raikou without e-speed. For examle even the weakest scarfed flygon kills you off at least you stand a chance at killing a mid to low health one with e-speed. Now will you continue to deny that e-speed has it's uses?
Personally shizzle you make no sence you use that now priority on a fast pokemon line. Like I said before weavile is a great example of a fast pokemon running priorty
Away thanks for at least acknowledging this set has it's uses
away at least give it a shot I promise you'll love it especially on a dual screening team thing this is a monster
If I could
I would run
cm aura, sphere, hp grass, t-bolt way better coverage
away: it's true he loses some attack but honestly as I previously stated there are many situations where it is quite useful
and I said all sets have flaws I understand this one is no different but this one has many many many bonuses. As I said don't knock it untill you try it
Shizzle: I'm done speaking with you as apparently you can't even read properly. when you can go back and show me where I said shadow ball/t-bolt/hp ice is bad then I'll continue to converse with you.
Also, aura sphere kills off t-tar which yours doesn't magnezone where yours doesn't plus can kill many things who will normally rape a regular raikou without e-speed. For examle even the weakest scarfed flygon kills you off at least you stand a chance at killing a mid to low health one with e-speed. Now will you continue to deny that e-speed has it's uses?
Personally shizzle you make no sence you use that now priority on a fast pokemon line. Like I said before weavile is a great example of a fast pokemon running priorty
Away thanks for at least acknowledging this set has it's uses
away at least give it a shot I promise you'll love it especially on a dual screening team thing this is a monster
There are situations where it is quite useful, I'm sure everyone agrees with that, just that other pokemon like Scizor is more suitable for picking off weakened pokemon and helping Raikou set up for a sweep. Raikou's job shouldn't be picking off weakened pokemon, but instead, sweeping.
I think the Aura Sphere over Extreme Speed would net better results in the long run =/
Edit: Though, the standard Timid CM sets are probably better anyway due to the higher speed.
I think the Aura Sphere over Extreme Speed would net better results in the long run =/
Edit: Though, the standard Timid CM sets are probably better anyway due to the higher speed.
actually the only bonus this set got is a somewhat weak extremespeed, heck even infernape mach punch is hitting harder then raikou extremespeed.
the idea is nice, but i would rather just use the standard timid sub CM set since its a lot more reliable and kill a lot more stuff(lose aura sphere sucks, but you wont be outspeeding the targets you are going to hit with anyway).
the idea is nice, but i would rather just use the standard timid sub CM set since its a lot more reliable and kill a lot more stuff(lose aura sphere sucks, but you wont be outspeeding the targets you are going to hit with anyway).
Ok let's see here. First of all:
vs. 0/4 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 18.1% - 21.4%
Wow Lucario must be pretty low on health, maybe you should find a better check to your team than relying on Raikou to check it.
Also:
136 Rash Life Orb Raikou ExtremeSpeed
vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon : 30.5% - 36.1%
vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Starmie : 33.6% - 39.7%
I see no mention of 44%.
That and LO and Leftovers Starmie have Recover, so they'll be healing off any damage. Specs and Scarf Starmie are the only two you should be worried about, and with Scarf Starmie's reduced damage output, you shouldn't even be using Espeed to take care of it, just Thunderbolt.
I still have no idea what 44% you're talking about.
According to your set, CM/Tbolt/HP Grass/Espeed, it does no better against Tyranitar than the sets already on site. In fact, since you have Aura Sphere slashed, I can merely use the point that HP Fighting is slashed on the offensive CM set on site which means that Ttar won't be any trouble either unless it's Scarftar. Shadow Ball isn't stupid, it hits Rotom-A and Celebi for SE damage, which means that they can't retaliate against you by you using Thunderbolt.
Weavile uses priority because it's used to pick off enemies that are WEAK against it (see: Salamence and Dragonite). You're using Espeed just because it's priority, which has little use because the Pokemon that you're trying to check with it shouldn't even be at that low HP anyway.
Gliscor checks it by switching in on the CM, taking a LO HP Grass and living it and OHKOing back with EQ.
Secondly, that's an incorrect moveset for Raikou. Instead, it should have HP Grass or HP Fighting to check Swampert or Tyranitar. How the hell does Tbolt NOT kill Kingdra when the set on site has MORE SpA AND Life Orb (yours suggests Leftovers as the main option). In fact:
252 Rash Life Orb Raikou +1 Thunderbolt
vs. 4/0 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 108.9% - 128.4%
vs. 252 Modest Life Orb Starmie Surf : 63.7% - 75.5%
vs. 252 Modest Leftovers Starmie Surf : 49.4% - 58.1%
Under half my ass.
The best Raikou set you should be using is something like CM / Tbolt / 2 of HP Grass / Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere.
136 Rash Life Orb Raikou ExtremeSpeedCrimson assassin said:
vs. 0/4 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 18.1% - 21.4%
Wow Lucario must be pretty low on health, maybe you should find a better check to your team than relying on Raikou to check it.
Also:
136 Rash Life Orb Raikou ExtremeSpeed
vs. 4/0 Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon : 30.5% - 36.1%
vs. 4/0 Timid Life Orb Starmie : 33.6% - 39.7%
I see no mention of 44%.
Once again, Flygon and Starmie are gonna need to be at less than 1/3 HP in order to take it. Since Flygon won't be taking much damage because it'll be coming in and out with U-turn and will only revenge kill, it won't get down to that low HP. Additionally, Starmie should be afraid of Raikou since Hydro Pump only does 50% after 1 CM, so there is no fear of it staying in waiting to get KOed by Tbolt, which means that Espeed is pointless for that also.
That and LO and Leftovers Starmie have Recover, so they'll be healing off any damage. Specs and Scarf Starmie are the only two you should be worried about, and with Scarf Starmie's reduced damage output, you shouldn't even be using Espeed to take care of it, just Thunderbolt.
I still have no idea what 44% you're talking about.
If you're Espeeding Starmie first then setting up, the opponent will have brought in a check to Raikou before it's set up. Also, what makes you so sure that Starmie won't switch out fearing a Speed tie and instead go directly to their check which will take piss damage from Espeed?
Yep, REALLY weakened threats that is. If you're using it as a safety check, then you should really be using something else to check your team or fix your team first if your team is weak to those types of Pokemon.
According to your set, CM/Tbolt/HP Grass/Espeed, it does no better against Tyranitar than the sets already on site. In fact, since you have Aura Sphere slashed, I can merely use the point that HP Fighting is slashed on the offensive CM set on site which means that Ttar won't be any trouble either unless it's Scarftar. Shadow Ball isn't stupid, it hits Rotom-A and Celebi for SE damage, which means that they can't retaliate against you by you using Thunderbolt.
Weavile uses priority because it's used to pick off enemies that are WEAK against it (see: Salamence and Dragonite). You're using Espeed just because it's priority, which has little use because the Pokemon that you're trying to check with it shouldn't even be at that low HP anyway.
Gliscor checks it by switching in on the CM, taking a LO HP Grass and living it and OHKOing back with EQ.
Sub CM isn't great in OU due to residual damage and the fact that its type coverage isn't the greatest. We can ignore it for our purposes.
Secondly, that's an incorrect moveset for Raikou. Instead, it should have HP Grass or HP Fighting to check Swampert or Tyranitar. How the hell does Tbolt NOT kill Kingdra when the set on site has MORE SpA AND Life Orb (yours suggests Leftovers as the main option). In fact:
252 Rash Life Orb Raikou +1 Thunderbolt
vs. 4/0 Adamant Leftovers Kingdra : 108.9% - 128.4%
4/0 Rash Life Orb Raikou
vs. 252 Modest Life Orb Starmie Surf : 63.7% - 75.5%
vs. 252 Modest Leftovers Starmie Surf : 49.4% - 58.1%
Under half my ass.
The best Raikou set you should be using is something like CM / Tbolt / 2 of HP Grass / Shadow Ball / Aura Sphere.
Azure Demon
Guest
marth:Standard raikou with calm mind doesn't run life orb it runs leftovers if I'm not mistaken
plus if you want to be a smart ass I corrected the 44% already in a previous post so you should read before you post
And let's read my first post again I said and I quote "e-speed is used for hurting things that arm on last legs or outspeed him but are weakened"
and I never said gliscir can't kill my raikou no I said not a check. And a check is something you can switch in and effectivly stop a pokemon gliscor can't do that now can it?
And your weavile comment is true but not true while weavile does pack ice shard it's not just for dragons. It is also for PICKING OFF FASTER BUT WEAKER POKEMON LIKE ONE HP SD LUCARIO
but either way thank you all for looking at the set and trust me I understand your concerns but trust me if you tried it you might like it:)
plus if you want to be a smart ass I corrected the 44% already in a previous post so you should read before you post
And let's read my first post again I said and I quote "e-speed is used for hurting things that arm on last legs or outspeed him but are weakened"
and I never said gliscir can't kill my raikou no I said not a check. And a check is something you can switch in and effectivly stop a pokemon gliscor can't do that now can it?
And your weavile comment is true but not true while weavile does pack ice shard it's not just for dragons. It is also for PICKING OFF FASTER BUT WEAKER POKEMON LIKE ONE HP SD LUCARIO
but either way thank you all for looking at the set and trust me I understand your concerns but trust me if you tried it you might like it:)
Pokemon name: Tyranitar
Moveset name: Anti-lead tar
Item: Lum berry
Nature: Careful
Evs: 252 hp/252 def/ 4 spd
Moveset:
1. Counter
2. Pursuit
3. Stone Edge
4. Roar
Description:
Ok, before I get started, yes this set is well tested, with great success.
I put the maximum amount of physical bulkiness to take earthquakes and bullet punches, and to maximize counter's effectiveness. This set always comes out on top against aerodactyl leads, by pursuiting in case they use stealth rocks first (any other move would be pointless), and then countering the following earthquake for the KO. Azelf leads take more than 50% from pursuit, and after stealth rocking are forced to either switch and get KOed by pursuit, or explode for usually less than 50%. Roar phases out pokemon who are trying to set up on tar, or special attackers that tar doesn't like. Usually you can phase the opponent until a physical attacker they think can handle this tar is switched in, and you may either counter them if tar can take their move(usually it is pretty obvious what move they will use) or switch into a team member who can sponge the hit and take advantage of the switch if he can't. Lum berry is so that he can win against most smeargle leads, and be in a generally better situation against sleep-inducing leads. Infernape and Machamp leads are problematic, but you can predict the incoming fighting move and easily switch to and appropriate counter.
Moveset name: Anti-lead tar
Item: Lum berry
Nature: Careful
Evs: 252 hp/252 def/ 4 spd
Moveset:
1. Counter
2. Pursuit
3. Stone Edge
4. Roar
Description:
Ok, before I get started, yes this set is well tested, with great success.
I put the maximum amount of physical bulkiness to take earthquakes and bullet punches, and to maximize counter's effectiveness. This set always comes out on top against aerodactyl leads, by pursuiting in case they use stealth rocks first (any other move would be pointless), and then countering the following earthquake for the KO. Azelf leads take more than 50% from pursuit, and after stealth rocking are forced to either switch and get KOed by pursuit, or explode for usually less than 50%. Roar phases out pokemon who are trying to set up on tar, or special attackers that tar doesn't like. Usually you can phase the opponent until a physical attacker they think can handle this tar is switched in, and you may either counter them if tar can take their move(usually it is pretty obvious what move they will use) or switch into a team member who can sponge the hit and take advantage of the switch if he can't. Lum berry is so that he can win against most smeargle leads, and be in a generally better situation against sleep-inducing leads. Infernape and Machamp leads are problematic, but you can predict the incoming fighting move and easily switch to and appropriate counter.
Learn to read and not scroll over posts, k?
was a response to:
Actually, Dual Screens are more popular on HO and BP teams, but, oh, Raikou can't do much on either.
What are you talking about? How's 36% damage max "getting the jump" on a Pokemon doesn't stay in to tank attacks, boasts a resistance to SR, and immunities to Ground attacks, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes? You're also not factoring in that Extremespeed is a dead giveaway of a Rash nature =/
You're missing the point. Raikou is taking a shitload of damage from most of the Special attackers that it can set up on; to put it simply, the Rash nature hurts a Raikou sweep more than it helps.
I didn't read how underpowered Extremespeed is? What about the idiotic reasoning that Calm Mind will remedy the loss of bulky from running a Rash nature - did I read that, too?
No, because Tyranitar fears nothing from any of Raikou's sets. It could be CB, DDTar, Boah, hell I wouldn't even rule out a BaitTar switching in.
Furthermore:
The offensive booster is Raikou's most common and most effective set in OU, and yes, it runs LO
ITT: trolls
Roar is worthless. The vast majority of the metagame is immune to Sandstorm, and you don't have Stealth Rock up, so you're just scouting while your opponent hits you. Stealth Rock is a better choice. Maybe something unorthodox like Flamethrower / Fire Punch to hit Skarmorys and Scizor, I dunno.
Roar has pHazing capibilites. Set up sweepers that predict a switch to stat up would do no damage and get knocked away. A bit of a "band aid solution", but if you avoid putting in someone that the set up sweeper can set up on, it could work out for you. Besides, scouting is underrated IMO.
How does this custom spread look for a Bulky Water Milotic in OU?
252 HP/ 244 Defense/4 Special Attack/8 Speed
MovesetL Surf, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Electric, Recover
It gives her 394 HP to maximize her defenses and decent defense of 280 and special defense of 286. She receives maximum coverage to kill Dragons and other bulky waters... the four evs in special attack guarantee the OHKO on Salamence (HP Electric reduces her Special Attack by one), and the 8 speed puts her at the decent 200 to get past all the mediocre attackers.
How can I fix it?
252 HP/ 244 Defense/4 Special Attack/8 Speed
MovesetL Surf, Ice Beam, Hidden Power Electric, Recover
It gives her 394 HP to maximize her defenses and decent defense of 280 and special defense of 286. She receives maximum coverage to kill Dragons and other bulky waters... the four evs in special attack guarantee the OHKO on Salamence (HP Electric reduces her Special Attack by one), and the 8 speed puts her at the decent 200 to get past all the mediocre attackers.
How can I fix it?
Smeargle
Transform lock-down
Spore/Trick
Imprison
Transform
Agillity/Spider Web/Fake out/Iron defence/ recover
Focus sash/Choice Scarf/leppa berry
techni if using Fake Out, Own tempo otherwise.
Jolly
Hp 252 Atk 4 Spe 252
The point of this set is to lock down your opponent and force struggle. Use Imprison then transform, your opponent can't attack and is forced to struggle. Spider web is so they can't escape, Fake out for some free damage, agillity is so you're faster when transformed and not wanting them to retreat, iron defence so you are sturdy against struggle, and recover for healing if nessary. Your item depends on your faith in smeargle's speed, focus sash if you think he's too slow, leppa if you think he's fast enough. The choice scarf is for trick. Watch out for nonsleeper/sleeptalkers, this smeargle needs a scout to safely use this smeargle.
Transform lock-down
Spore/Trick
Imprison
Transform
Agillity/Spider Web/Fake out/Iron defence/ recover
Focus sash/Choice Scarf/leppa berry
techni if using Fake Out, Own tempo otherwise.
Jolly
Hp 252 Atk 4 Spe 252
The point of this set is to lock down your opponent and force struggle. Use Imprison then transform, your opponent can't attack and is forced to struggle. Spider web is so they can't escape, Fake out for some free damage, agillity is so you're faster when transformed and not wanting them to retreat, iron defence so you are sturdy against struggle, and recover for healing if nessary. Your item depends on your faith in smeargle's speed, focus sash if you think he's too slow, leppa if you think he's fast enough. The choice scarf is for trick. Watch out for nonsleeper/sleeptalkers, this smeargle needs a scout to safely use this smeargle.
Considering your opponent can just switch out otherwise, I think Spider Web is an absolute necessity for the set.
This is a Jirachi I used as a lead for a long while when I was obsessed with Trick Room teams.
Brave Jirachi@Leftovers/Lum
252 HP/ 252 Atk / 4 Def/ 0 Spe IV
~Trick Room
~Wish
~Iron Head
~Stealth Rock/U-turn
Jirachi is just at the speed threshold where it can take advantage of Trick Room with the right nature.
As a lead, it almost always accomplished the early TR since Jirachi was rarely Taunted because most opponents expected a Scarf.
(Lum is an option to beat sleep leads and has the situational side effect of continuing to bluff Scarf in the event of a Fake Out from Weavile)
After TR, Jirachi can beat a number of frail leads due to the high flinch rate of Iron Head.
Wish has great synergy with Trick Room and Iron Head since Jirachi will often be able to obtain full recovery while attacking or be able to heal the Trick Room sweeper as it switches in.
This Jirachi was once trapped by a Magnezone and proceeded to beat it by repeated Flinches along with free Leftovers recovery and the occasional Wish to recover from successful Thunderbolts.
Not surprisingly, the opponent quitted after that exchange.
The final slot is a difficult choice between good options.
Stealth Rock is great with TR so that opponents have to pay a fee for wasting your TR turns with switching.
OTOH, U-turn + Jirachi's bulk and relatively high speed makes it a good transition Pokemon to absorb the hit against slower opponents when TR sweepers want to switch in.
The EV spread could go for more defense with Relaxed and Defense EVs but it still has plenty of bulk when Brave.
A Brave nature makes the more potent Iron Heads even more annoying while getting 2HKOs on lead Azelf, Scarf Ttar and most Mence with rocks.
Even when used as a lead, it frequently survives and acts as a great Wish/TR supporter or clutch counter/cleaner later in the match.
It's a pity that my final conclusion was that Trick Room teams currently have too many weaknesses because this Jirachi made it quite fun to play.
Brave Jirachi@Leftovers/Lum
252 HP/ 252 Atk / 4 Def/ 0 Spe IV
~Trick Room
~Wish
~Iron Head
~Stealth Rock/U-turn
Jirachi is just at the speed threshold where it can take advantage of Trick Room with the right nature.
As a lead, it almost always accomplished the early TR since Jirachi was rarely Taunted because most opponents expected a Scarf.
(Lum is an option to beat sleep leads and has the situational side effect of continuing to bluff Scarf in the event of a Fake Out from Weavile)
After TR, Jirachi can beat a number of frail leads due to the high flinch rate of Iron Head.
Wish has great synergy with Trick Room and Iron Head since Jirachi will often be able to obtain full recovery while attacking or be able to heal the Trick Room sweeper as it switches in.
This Jirachi was once trapped by a Magnezone and proceeded to beat it by repeated Flinches along with free Leftovers recovery and the occasional Wish to recover from successful Thunderbolts.
Not surprisingly, the opponent quitted after that exchange.
The final slot is a difficult choice between good options.
Stealth Rock is great with TR so that opponents have to pay a fee for wasting your TR turns with switching.
OTOH, U-turn + Jirachi's bulk and relatively high speed makes it a good transition Pokemon to absorb the hit against slower opponents when TR sweepers want to switch in.
The EV spread could go for more defense with Relaxed and Defense EVs but it still has plenty of bulk when Brave.
A Brave nature makes the more potent Iron Heads even more annoying while getting 2HKOs on lead Azelf, Scarf Ttar and most Mence with rocks.
Even when used as a lead, it frequently survives and acts as a great Wish/TR supporter or clutch counter/cleaner later in the match.
It's a pity that my final conclusion was that Trick Room teams currently have too many weaknesses because this Jirachi made it quite fun to play.
I actually used it for tens of matches and never had an issue with speed.
IMO, it's faster than all leads in Trick Room except the ones it has no business taking on (Swampert, Hippowdon etc).
In the mid game, 184 speed is plenty slow enough in the majority of cases and when it isn't, U-turn Jirachi can often take a hit for the TR sweeper to come in.
IMO, it's faster than all leads in Trick Room except the ones it has no business taking on (Swampert, Hippowdon etc).
In the mid game, 184 speed is plenty slow enough in the majority of cases and when it isn't, U-turn Jirachi can often take a hit for the TR sweeper to come in.
IMO this jirachi wouldnt work too well against most leads
Azelf would set up rocks while you set up TR and if it doesnt flinch it could punish you hard with FB.
Aerodactyl would be much like azelf just that eq wouldnt hit as hard as fb.
Machamp would outspeed you after TR and hit you hard with dynamic punch.
Swampert would setup sr and hit you hard with earthquake because he outspeeds you after tr.
heatran sets up sr and hits you hard with fb while taking little damage from iron head.
metagross much like swampert and heatran takes almost no damage from iron head and punish you with eq.
skarmory and forretress would just setup in your face.
Starmie hits you hard with hydropump and doesnt takes too much from iron head.
Infernape hits you hard with fb or sets up sr and if your unlucky he does both thanks to his resistance to iron head.
I havent run any damage calcs but i am pretty sure it would go this way.
As you see the jirachi will most likely get his job done but the problem is that almost every lead is a bad match up for you.
Azelf would set up rocks while you set up TR and if it doesnt flinch it could punish you hard with FB.
Aerodactyl would be much like azelf just that eq wouldnt hit as hard as fb.
Machamp would outspeed you after TR and hit you hard with dynamic punch.
Swampert would setup sr and hit you hard with earthquake because he outspeeds you after tr.
heatran sets up sr and hits you hard with fb while taking little damage from iron head.
metagross much like swampert and heatran takes almost no damage from iron head and punish you with eq.
skarmory and forretress would just setup in your face.
Starmie hits you hard with hydropump and doesnt takes too much from iron head.
Infernape hits you hard with fb or sets up sr and if your unlucky he does both thanks to his resistance to iron head.
I havent run any damage calcs but i am pretty sure it would go this way.
As you see the jirachi will most likely get his job done but the problem is that almost every lead is a bad match up for you.
It is functional as a lead but I used it more as a Lead/TR supporter.
In trick room you need dedicated replenishers and sweepers so you sometimes cannot afford to also specialize in a Pokemon designed to beat particular leads.
Anyway, even Scarf Jirachi could fail to flinch (40% of the time) and be hit by FB/Earthquake or whatever and actually take more damage than this set.
And you're obviously not staying in against things that can beat you outright like Infernape.
Slowking and Slowbro lol at just about any lead Infernape attack, switch into resisted Machamp Dynamic Punches without confusion and learn Trick Room as well.
EDIT: took out my one sentence rant.
But listing lead matchups kind of misses the point.
It's not an anti-lead but a TR supporter that can also lead.
There is a team behind it that can take on what it can't.
Also, most TR leads are not stopping rocks because they are too slow and vulnerable to Taunt.
The Jirachi was rarely Taunted/Tricked and often stopped rocks just because the opponent didn't know he could get away with it.
Then after TR, the flinching usually prevents any attempts to make up for the blunder.
Honestly, this guy was frequently the star of my team since it pulled its weight later as well.
In trick room you need dedicated replenishers and sweepers so you sometimes cannot afford to also specialize in a Pokemon designed to beat particular leads.
Anyway, even Scarf Jirachi could fail to flinch (40% of the time) and be hit by FB/Earthquake or whatever and actually take more damage than this set.
And you're obviously not staying in against things that can beat you outright like Infernape.
Slowking and Slowbro lol at just about any lead Infernape attack, switch into resisted Machamp Dynamic Punches without confusion and learn Trick Room as well.
EDIT: took out my one sentence rant.
But listing lead matchups kind of misses the point.
It's not an anti-lead but a TR supporter that can also lead.
There is a team behind it that can take on what it can't.
Also, most TR leads are not stopping rocks because they are too slow and vulnerable to Taunt.
The Jirachi was rarely Taunted/Tricked and often stopped rocks just because the opponent didn't know he could get away with it.
Then after TR, the flinching usually prevents any attempts to make up for the blunder.
Honestly, this guy was frequently the star of my team since it pulled its weight later as well.
Azure Demon
Guest
ok guys dont worry I'm not going to get pissy or quote anyone i just want your honest opinion on this set please and thank you
I need your opinion on this set
jirachi
nature: careful
recommended item: leftovers or be bold and run life orb
126hp/40atk/164def/180spdef
cosmic power, body slam, zen headbutt/iron head, drain punch
this guy has to be one of my favorite sets I've made so far it is amazing especially and helping jirachi scuff things it normally wouldn't dream of taking on especially after it gets the body slam parahax on something. Now the evs given give jirachi 372 hp, 246 attack, 277 def, and 309 spdef. meaning after a cosmic power rachi sits at 415 def and 463 spdef making jirachi one mean tank. with this set jirachi can attempt to confront flygon, scarft-tar, SD lucario, vaporeon and even the revered mixed mence. after a cosmic power getting 2 is fairly easy but if you dont want to be greedy set up a cosmic power then body slam your opponent for the parahax and then that will certianly bring the pokemon under jirachi's speed of 236 then use zen head butt to ride it out to death or if it is a steel, rock, or dark type ot a combination of the last to like T-tar you can drain punch for your hp back so you would get leftovers plus drain punch health back. This set is great for stalling, tanking, or just annoying the hell out of your opponent just ask bearsfan he knows:)
choice banded siczor x-scissor adamant max attack vs cosmic power rachi with +1: 32.8% - 38.7% after lefties : 26.8%-38.7%
gyarados offensive dragon dancer set eq vs cosmic power rachi +1: 36.0% - 42.5%
after lefties :30%-36.5%
new mixed mence fire blast with life orb vs cosmic power rachi +1: 41.4% - 48.9%
after lefties 35.4%-42.9%
max attack adamant t-tar earthquake vs cosmic power rachi +1: 37.6% - 44.6%
after lefties: 31.6%-38.6%
max adamant machamp dynamicpunch vs cosmic power rachi +1: 27.4% - 32.5%
after lefties: 21.4%-26.5%
I need your opinion on this set
jirachi
nature: careful
recommended item: leftovers or be bold and run life orb
126hp/40atk/164def/180spdef
cosmic power, body slam, zen headbutt/iron head, drain punch
this guy has to be one of my favorite sets I've made so far it is amazing especially and helping jirachi scuff things it normally wouldn't dream of taking on especially after it gets the body slam parahax on something. Now the evs given give jirachi 372 hp, 246 attack, 277 def, and 309 spdef. meaning after a cosmic power rachi sits at 415 def and 463 spdef making jirachi one mean tank. with this set jirachi can attempt to confront flygon, scarft-tar, SD lucario, vaporeon and even the revered mixed mence. after a cosmic power getting 2 is fairly easy but if you dont want to be greedy set up a cosmic power then body slam your opponent for the parahax and then that will certianly bring the pokemon under jirachi's speed of 236 then use zen head butt to ride it out to death or if it is a steel, rock, or dark type ot a combination of the last to like T-tar you can drain punch for your hp back so you would get leftovers plus drain punch health back. This set is great for stalling, tanking, or just annoying the hell out of your opponent just ask bearsfan he knows:)
choice banded siczor x-scissor adamant max attack vs cosmic power rachi with +1: 32.8% - 38.7% after lefties : 26.8%-38.7%
gyarados offensive dragon dancer set eq vs cosmic power rachi +1: 36.0% - 42.5%
after lefties :30%-36.5%
new mixed mence fire blast with life orb vs cosmic power rachi +1: 41.4% - 48.9%
after lefties 35.4%-42.9%
max attack adamant t-tar earthquake vs cosmic power rachi +1: 37.6% - 44.6%
after lefties: 31.6%-38.6%
max adamant machamp dynamicpunch vs cosmic power rachi +1: 27.4% - 32.5%
after lefties: 21.4%-26.5%
Im sure the set is great, Cosmic Power is ridiculous on something like Jirachi, just a few questions/statements.
Firstly you should include things like CS Heatran Fire Blast after a Cosmic Power, and Infernape Fire Blast. No shit its going to survive a Machamp Dynamic Punch easily, a CS Flygon EQ would be good too. Also Scizor uses Bug Bite, not X-Scissor, and dont write after lefties, that gives no information at all, we can all -6% in our heads. Also its 124 HP, not 126.
Personally I think it doesn't need flinchhax to work properly, and its special movepool has much more raw power, and would probably work better, allowing it to more steadily take down walls. Also I would probably prefer the Atk EVs put into Speed, so it can outspeed things like Celebi/other stuff, that are 100 Spe and run 36 Spe. Toxic would also be a good option to take down Walls which really don't fear it. I think this moveset would work better. Cosmic Power / Toxic / Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon, although Wish could fit in there too over Flash Cannon if needed. Thunderbolt takes care of Skarmory who would otherwise just wall you and Whirlwind you away, and Toxic cripples other Phasers like Swampert.
Firstly you should include things like CS Heatran Fire Blast after a Cosmic Power, and Infernape Fire Blast. No shit its going to survive a Machamp Dynamic Punch easily, a CS Flygon EQ would be good too. Also Scizor uses Bug Bite, not X-Scissor, and dont write after lefties, that gives no information at all, we can all -6% in our heads. Also its 124 HP, not 126.
Personally I think it doesn't need flinchhax to work properly, and its special movepool has much more raw power, and would probably work better, allowing it to more steadily take down walls. Also I would probably prefer the Atk EVs put into Speed, so it can outspeed things like Celebi/other stuff, that are 100 Spe and run 36 Spe. Toxic would also be a good option to take down Walls which really don't fear it. I think this moveset would work better. Cosmic Power / Toxic / Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon, although Wish could fit in there too over Flash Cannon if needed. Thunderbolt takes care of Skarmory who would otherwise just wall you and Whirlwind you away, and Toxic cripples other Phasers like Swampert.