Azure Demon
Guest
That's not a good idea be side of all the vappys running around it would render this completly useless if that happened
lol beaten
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New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5
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That's not a good idea be side of all the vappys running around it would render this completly useless if that happened
lol beaten
I'd say Disable can force switches too, especially with choiced pokemon being pretty common and Kingdra's nice typing.
But yes, you can get a few DDs out of Sub + Yawn as well though the engine sputters once sleep clause takes effect.
Also for starmie set u could replace toxic with cosmic power.
Oops, I did mess up the EVs.
I meant to give it enough EVs to outspeed that tier.
And I agree that 80% accuracy is really stupid for a move like Disable.
Disabling Dancer
Adamant Kingdra@Leftovers (Lum)
120 HP/ 252 Atk/ 140 Spe
~Dragon Dance
~Outrage
~Substitute
~Disable
I love the style of this set a lot. It surpises opponents by locking a choice user into sturggle and setting up. Mono Outrage is probably your best option becuase Dragon hits all types neutral barring steels, while Waterfall is walled by several common pokemon. Nice set!
I would be more worried about all the steels. They pretty much control the current metagame. 'Sides, vaporeon probably wouldn't be the worst problem, suicune would. When dealing with a mono attack, regardless your options are going to be limited.
It's definitely a 'pick your counters' thing with a mono attack.
Wish Vaporeon can do litle to foil your setup since only Ice Beam can break the sub and Kingdra can disable it. However, if you can't hit Vaporeon at all you'll have to switch out.
OTOH, boosted Waterfalls will hit most Steels quite hard, Kingdra can kill something from behind the Sub without being locked in and he won't get confused.
BTW, I fixed the borked EVs to 120 HP/ 160 Atk/ 232 Spe.
The Speed Evs allow Kingdra to get the jump on positive base 130s after a DD so he control play quickly.
The HP EVs allow Kingdra's sub to survive Scarf Jirachi/Flygon U-turns while hitting a leftovers number and the rest of the EVs go into attack.
The balance between Speed and Attack is tweakable but retaining a sub if a Scarf Flygon/Jirachi U-Turns to evade Disable is valuable IMO.
Azure Demon
Guest
steels wouldn't concern me as after a good 2 dragon dances kingdra would be 2 hit oking things like metagross and heatran with an outrage anyway so that isn't really an issue where healing an opponent or allowing them to set up on you is.
and also I'm loving that starime set. To bad that after camouflage it loses it's stab but i guess since it's a wall it doesn't matter that much
Nature: rash
252speed/120spatk/138atk
calm mind
extremespeed
hpgrass/aura sphere/hpice
thunderbolt
recommended item: leftovers
honorable mentions: life orb or expert belt
The main idea behind this set is a mixed cm sweeper/revenge killer. raikou has an amazing base speed stat and spatk so that was the focus of the spread the max speed evs bring raikou to 329 enough to out speed base 100 pokes by a point which is really nice since that is actually faster than wuite a bit of the metagame. Now since running rash nature spdef is lowered but This is one of the parts where calm mind comes into play by removing that little negative aspect of the mixed sweeping nature and also in boosting
now t-bolt as everyone knows is going to be the primary for of attack due to stab after 1 cm or two this thing is capable of ohkoing a crocune or guaranteed to ohko it if 1 layer of spikes or steath rocks is up it also pummels kingdra doing anywhere from 76%-89% (no hp or spdef evs or with max hp for the rest dancer set it does anywhere from 61%-73% so an easy 2hitko. Hp grass is for ground types who would try to stop your sweep. hp ice is only recommended for those who have a genuine fear of dragons however t-bolt should be more than enough seeing as a +1 t-bolt does 85.2% - 100.3% to a mixed mence which is a guaranteed ohko with rocks up. aura sphere is here for people who feel they have a huge steel weakness or a t-tar weakness calcs on this move and it's damage are down below
Extremespeed is the savior of this set Extremespeed is used to destroy pokemon on there last legs or who are faster and have a chance at ruining your sweep once again a few specs are down below
calculations
+1 aura sphere on curse t-tar in sand : 72-85%
+1 aura sphere with life orb on curse t-tar in sand: 85.1% - 101.0%
+1 t-bolt on crocune: 93%-109%
extremespeed on a special attacking starime: 26%-31%
if anyone has any questions let me know
Azure Demon
Guest
because it only get aura sphere with a rash nature it's an event move
and either way with a cm up you can kill it with a t-bolt no problem I'm just showing the revenge killing capabilities
and extremespeed is not just for starime its for as i have already said revenge kills or picking off pokes who threaten your sweep like say a SD e-speed lucario who is how on health and that is there to show e-speed does a nice chunk of damage even with no stab slap a life orb on that and that is 44%
you act as if there aren't pokemon that outspeed raikou and you also act as if raikou is immune to all priority move. when in actuality bullet punch is the only one it is weak to
and either way with a cm up you can kill it with a t-bolt no problem I'm just showing the revenge killing capabilities
and extremespeed is not just for starime its for as i have already said revenge kills or picking off pokes who threaten your sweep like say a SD e-speed lucario who is how on health and that is there to show e-speed does a nice chunk of damage even with no stab slap a life orb on that and that is 44%
you act as if there aren't pokemon that outspeed raikou and you also act as if raikou is immune to all priority move. when in actuality bullet punch is the only one it is weak to
Azure Demon
Guest
most buff or resistant pokemon are going to go down to CM boosted attacks the only 2 pokemon who stand a chance at taking most of these hits with no problems are blissey and chancey.
I just posted the damage with life orb that is 44%
I just posted the damage with life orb that is 44%
Electric resists Steel.
also, be a little more thorough with your calcs. What does T-bolt do to that same Starmie? if (T-Bolt + Extremespeed)>100%, then it can be seen as a worthwhile option. If not, Starmie can just recover it off...
And sure, this looks OK against cursetar and crocune...what about a few other Pokemon you'd be likely to see? How does it fare against, say, a Salamence switch in? How about a +1 T-Bolt VS Scizor?
3 calcs does not a set make.
Azure Demon
Guest
dude i have about 6 calcs if you actually read the post
\t-bolt ohkos starime but that isn't the point my point is with a rash nature your spdef is lowered so you can extremespeed a faster special attacker example starime for the kill and then worry about setting up
and if you read my post i actually have salamence and kingdra factored in already snd on that last post i ment he doesn't resisit all priority
Nature: rash
252speed/120spatk/138atk
calm mind
extremespeed
hpgrass/aura sphere/hpice
thunderbolt
recommended item: leftovers
honorable mentions: life orb or expert belt
The main idea behind this set is a mixed cm sweeper/revenge killer. raikou has an amazing base speed stat and spatk so that was the focus of the spread the max speed evs bring raikou to 329 enough to out speed base 100 pokes by a point which is really nice since that is actually faster than wuite a bit of the metagame. Now since running rash nature spdef is lowered but This is one of the parts where calm mind comes into play by removing that little negative aspect of the mixed sweeping nature and also in boosting
now t-bolt as everyone knows is going to be the primary for of attack due to stab after 1 cm or two this thing is capable of ohkoing a crocune or guaranteed to ohko it if 1 layer of spikes or steath rocks is up it also pummels kingdra doing anywhere from 76%-89% (no hp or spdef evs or with max hp for the rest dancer set it does anywhere from 61%-73% so an easy 2hitko. Hp grass is for ground types who would try to stop your sweep. hp ice is only recommended for those who have a genuine fear of dragons however t-bolt should be more than enough seeing as a +1 t-bolt does 85.2% - 100.3% to a mixed mence which is a guaranteed ohko with rocks up. aura sphere is here for people who feel they have a huge steel weakness or a t-tar weakness calcs on this move and it's damage are down below
Extremespeed is the savior of this set Extremespeed is used to destroy pokemon on there last legs or who are faster and have a chance at ruining your sweep once again a few specs are down below
calculations
+1 aura sphere on curse t-tar in sand : 72-85%
+1 aura sphere with life orb on curse t-tar in sand: 85.1% - 101.0%
+1 t-bolt on crocune: 93%-109%
extremespeed on a special attacking starime: 26%-31%
if you want a siczor calc here it is
a +1 t-bolt with life orb VS cb siczor does: 96.5% - 113.7%
and +1 t-bolt vs same siczor : 74.3% - 87.5%
and excuse me but life orb e-speed on starime is 33.7% - 39.8%
\t-bolt ohkos starime but that isn't the point my point is with a rash nature your spdef is lowered so you can extremespeed a faster special attacker example starime for the kill and then worry about setting up
and if you read my post i actually have salamence and kingdra factored in already snd on that last post i ment he doesn't resisit all priority
Nature: rash
252speed/120spatk/138atk
calm mind
extremespeed
hpgrass/aura sphere/hpice
thunderbolt
recommended item: leftovers
honorable mentions: life orb or expert belt
The main idea behind this set is a mixed cm sweeper/revenge killer. raikou has an amazing base speed stat and spatk so that was the focus of the spread the max speed evs bring raikou to 329 enough to out speed base 100 pokes by a point which is really nice since that is actually faster than wuite a bit of the metagame. Now since running rash nature spdef is lowered but This is one of the parts where calm mind comes into play by removing that little negative aspect of the mixed sweeping nature and also in boosting
now t-bolt as everyone knows is going to be the primary for of attack due to stab after 1 cm or two this thing is capable of ohkoing a crocune or guaranteed to ohko it if 1 layer of spikes or steath rocks is up it also pummels kingdra doing anywhere from 76%-89% (no hp or spdef evs or with max hp for the rest dancer set it does anywhere from 61%-73% so an easy 2hitko. Hp grass is for ground types who would try to stop your sweep. hp ice is only recommended for those who have a genuine fear of dragons however t-bolt should be more than enough seeing as a +1 t-bolt does 85.2% - 100.3% to a mixed mence which is a guaranteed ohko with rocks up. aura sphere is here for people who feel they have a huge steel weakness or a t-tar weakness calcs on this move and it's damage are down below
Extremespeed is the savior of this set Extremespeed is used to destroy pokemon on there last legs or who are faster and have a chance at ruining your sweep once again a few specs are down below
calculations
+1 aura sphere on curse t-tar in sand : 72-85%
+1 aura sphere with life orb on curse t-tar in sand: 85.1% - 101.0%
+1 t-bolt on crocune: 93%-109%
extremespeed on a special attacking starime: 26%-31%
if you want a siczor calc here it is
a +1 t-bolt with life orb VS cb siczor does: 96.5% - 113.7%
and +1 t-bolt vs same siczor : 74.3% - 87.5%
and excuse me but life orb e-speed on starime is 33.7% - 39.8%
Nope, sorry, but once again that set just plain sucks. I mean just look at it. You are basically using the Rash nature for one sole reason, that is Aura Sphere, Extremespeed is just pathetic. Rash is a terrible nature on a Raikou, as it lowers your only good defensive stat, SpD.
You can't always assume that you have a +1 up, Raikou doesn't have that many chances to come in, and with an offensive move pool of Aura Sphere/Thunderbolt, you get decent coverage, but its not enough. Your generic counters/checks of Celebi, Gliscor, Rotom and Blissey still beat you, so there really is no reason to use this set. You could argue that you can alternatively use HP Ice, but then there is no reason to not be running the standard Timid/Modest CM sets, and use Sub/CM/Tbolt/HPIce or CM/ShadowBall/Tbolt/HPIce, which have much better coverage, and more power because you aren't wasting EVs in Atk to do crap damage anyway, as well as being more bulky without the -SpD.
As mentioned, Extremespeed does pathetic damage all round, and its not exactly a good idea to use a priority move on such a fast pokemon anyway.
Just because a pokemon has a cool/new move, doesn't mean it should use it
You can't always assume that you have a +1 up, Raikou doesn't have that many chances to come in, and with an offensive move pool of Aura Sphere/Thunderbolt, you get decent coverage, but its not enough. Your generic counters/checks of Celebi, Gliscor, Rotom and Blissey still beat you, so there really is no reason to use this set. You could argue that you can alternatively use HP Ice, but then there is no reason to not be running the standard Timid/Modest CM sets, and use Sub/CM/Tbolt/HPIce or CM/ShadowBall/Tbolt/HPIce, which have much better coverage, and more power because you aren't wasting EVs in Atk to do crap damage anyway, as well as being more bulky without the -SpD.
As mentioned, Extremespeed does pathetic damage all round, and its not exactly a good idea to use a priority move on such a fast pokemon anyway.
Just because a pokemon has a cool/new move, doesn't mean it should use it
Azure Demon
Guest
Shizzle, by your logic no pokemon shouldn't be used because "OH it has a counter don't use that." that is why there are 6 pokemon on one team.
CM replaces the stats lost through dropping to rash nature (if you read which i doubt you did). e-speed is not a means to sweep it is a means to remove weakened threats and yeah coming in on say a CB sizcor with bullet punch does guarantee you a free cm
Ok, explain to me how the standard modest/timid sets would deal with your typical t-tar? hummmmm they don't do they? Oh and one more thing don't they cut there own hp just to go for stat boost because of subs? Also, isn't shadow ball a little dumb to have on a CMer who can knock out pretty much any ghost or psychic with a t-bolt after a cm anyway?
once again it isn't a good idea to use priority on a fast pokemon? that is a laughable argument talk to all the weavile users in the world and tell me how dumb that sounded. I honestly think everyone is trying to hold priority moves up to siczor's standards now that he has bullet punch. Let's not forget, priority is not always about doing "massive damage," it is also about picking up the kill or putting a pokemon in the position where is is ready to be killed by your next pokemon
oh and also gliscor doesn't counter it as gliscor is guarenteed to be 2hko'd (with rocks up) by a Plus 1+ life orb hp grass 70 which does 48.0% - 56.8% and thats with max hp with no hp evs or a pure physical attacker it does 58.4% - 69.1%. So does gliscor still counter it?
so, by the end of this post we have learned all of your "points" are actually pointless
test the set before you talk bad about it
CM replaces the stats lost through dropping to rash nature (if you read which i doubt you did). e-speed is not a means to sweep it is a means to remove weakened threats and yeah coming in on say a CB sizcor with bullet punch does guarantee you a free cm
Ok, explain to me how the standard modest/timid sets would deal with your typical t-tar? hummmmm they don't do they? Oh and one more thing don't they cut there own hp just to go for stat boost because of subs? Also, isn't shadow ball a little dumb to have on a CMer who can knock out pretty much any ghost or psychic with a t-bolt after a cm anyway?
once again it isn't a good idea to use priority on a fast pokemon? that is a laughable argument talk to all the weavile users in the world and tell me how dumb that sounded. I honestly think everyone is trying to hold priority moves up to siczor's standards now that he has bullet punch. Let's not forget, priority is not always about doing "massive damage," it is also about picking up the kill or putting a pokemon in the position where is is ready to be killed by your next pokemon
oh and also gliscor doesn't counter it as gliscor is guarenteed to be 2hko'd (with rocks up) by a Plus 1+ life orb hp grass 70 which does 48.0% - 56.8% and thats with max hp with no hp evs or a pure physical attacker it does 58.4% - 69.1%. So does gliscor still counter it?
so, by the end of this post we have learned all of your "points" are actually pointless
test the set before you talk bad about it
Ok, tell me. Why would I use a set, which reduces my bulk, and my offensive coverage. Thunderbolt/HP Ice has near perfect coverage, the only OU resisting it is Magnezone.
Lets put it like this. A normal Timid/Modest Raikou has more offensive power, and because it has no -SpD loss, it can handle foes like Starmie easier.
I am not saying "oh it has counters don't use it", but rather its less bulky, less defensive, and has worse coverage, inferior?
Lets put it like this. A normal Timid/Modest Raikou has more offensive power, and because it has no -SpD loss, it can handle foes like Starmie easier.
I am not saying "oh it has counters don't use it", but rather its less bulky, less defensive, and has worse coverage, inferior?
Azure Demon
Guest
Shizzle just stop now because you aren't making good points at all
FIRST AND FOREMOST: ALL MIXED SWEEPERS ARE LESS BULKY THAN THEIR MONO STYLE ATTACKING COUNTER PARTS SO THAT IS A HORRIBLE REASON TO TRY AND ARGUE NOT TO USE THIS SET.
most don't even have the ability to replace the stats that they have lowered at least raikou can through calm mind.
And i'm tired of you saying well it lowers your only good defensive stat. Honestly, this is the worst point you've tried to make. wouldn't you rather lower a stat that you at least have a chance at replenishing?
as for my set it is no where near inferior let's analyze the two sets you say are better. ok?
first the sub cm set. I'm not going to waste my time discussing that because this set has t-bolt and hidden power which are it's only forms of attacking which oh my goodness my set has also. But, it doesn't have to waste hp to attempt to set up.
but let's see this set CM/ShadowBall/Tbolt/HPIce
ok, this covers celibi that's about the only extra thing it covers that mine does not completely check now let's see this one lacks the ability to come anywhere near close to killing a t-tar in sand, doesn't check swampert, and plus a thunderbolt won't kill a kingdra and if it gets a DD up you are out sped and have no way to polish it off before it kills your raikou. But what does? extremespeed raikou. now am i right or wrong?
But all bullshit aside all sets have flaws it's the ones with to many that we shouldn't accept. This set has very very few and in all honesty none have gone without a solution not even the spdef drop by rash nature of the event pokemon.
FIRST AND FOREMOST: ALL MIXED SWEEPERS ARE LESS BULKY THAN THEIR MONO STYLE ATTACKING COUNTER PARTS SO THAT IS A HORRIBLE REASON TO TRY AND ARGUE NOT TO USE THIS SET.
most don't even have the ability to replace the stats that they have lowered at least raikou can through calm mind.
And i'm tired of you saying well it lowers your only good defensive stat. Honestly, this is the worst point you've tried to make. wouldn't you rather lower a stat that you at least have a chance at replenishing?
as for my set it is no where near inferior let's analyze the two sets you say are better. ok?
first the sub cm set. I'm not going to waste my time discussing that because this set has t-bolt and hidden power which are it's only forms of attacking which oh my goodness my set has also. But, it doesn't have to waste hp to attempt to set up.
but let's see this set CM/ShadowBall/Tbolt/HPIce
ok, this covers celibi that's about the only extra thing it covers that mine does not completely check now let's see this one lacks the ability to come anywhere near close to killing a t-tar in sand, doesn't check swampert, and plus a thunderbolt won't kill a kingdra and if it gets a DD up you are out sped and have no way to polish it off before it kills your raikou. But what does? extremespeed raikou. now am i right or wrong?
But all bullshit aside all sets have flaws it's the ones with to many that we shouldn't accept. This set has very very few and in all honesty none have gone without a solution not even the spdef drop by rash nature of the event pokemon.
What shizzle is getting at is that if you are going to be mixed attacking, there has to be a payoff for the loss in bulkiness. Does extremespeed and/or the possibility of aura sphere make up for the drop in speed and special bulk?
I personally think that it would take a lot of persuasion to get me to run a 115 base speed pokemon without +speed.
I personally think that it would take a lot of persuasion to get me to run a 115 base speed pokemon without +speed.
Azure Demon
Guest
well honestly don't know why then Id honestly say that id run a plus attack nature if i already have the speed. Other people think the same to that's why they have modest set for raikou also
yeah, it actually does because as i previously stated. I listed a few different times that it is actually a good thing to have E-speed waiting in the wings
and I completely understood what he said and the answer is as i previously stated yes, It has many great uses and i told him raikou is a great candidate for a mixed sweeper because unlike most of his fellow pokemon he can re-boost the stat he loses bulk in and plus his spdef with a - isn't horrible it is 269
so after a cm it is 403
but either way a modest starime surf does under half to the guy even with no cm boost. And besides that let's be honest how many people are bold enough to keep a starime in on raikou anyway or any special attacker to be serious
yeah, it actually does because as i previously stated. I listed a few different times that it is actually a good thing to have E-speed waiting in the wings
and I completely understood what he said and the answer is as i previously stated yes, It has many great uses and i told him raikou is a great candidate for a mixed sweeper because unlike most of his fellow pokemon he can re-boost the stat he loses bulk in and plus his spdef with a - isn't horrible it is 269
so after a cm it is 403
but either way a modest starime surf does under half to the guy even with no cm boost. And besides that let's be honest how many people are bold enough to keep a starime in on raikou anyway or any special attacker to be serious
>Pathetic
>much better
Ah, you remind me soup opera actors
Always exaggerating.
Also, the point it's not only to force switches, but disabling a move the oponent uses makes him waste one whole turn. I use something similar but with golduck (mono attack being surf) so I support the idea of trying waterfall
At the risk of getting quoted and flamed, I'd like to say that the idea of a mixed attacking Raikou is really horrible and should only be limted to wifi play, where theorymoning is actually effective to some extent.
You're using its average Attack stat in order to... wait, what does Extrmespeed, or Raikou's physical movepool for that matter, accomplish better than the two CM sets in the analysis? Starmie is outsped 50% of the time with a +Spe nature, ScarfTar is still popular, and Flygon is still going to kill you. Moreover, you lose the ability to tank hits rom Suicune, Vaporeon, Jolteon, and the like well (Surf from the former two can deal ~50% with help of SR). Speaking of which, how is Raikou even going to switch in? With the loss of bulk, it's not going to be switching in on anything ouside of Blissey (who beats you) anytime soon and residual damage from entry hazards will also pose a huge problem >_>.
Like the Lapras set you a few pages ago, MixCM Raikou isn't effective in OU at all.
EDIT: Who uses Modest Starmie without Specs... or better yet, who uses Modest Starmie these days?
You're using its average Attack stat in order to... wait, what does Extrmespeed, or Raikou's physical movepool for that matter, accomplish better than the two CM sets in the analysis? Starmie is outsped 50% of the time with a +Spe nature, ScarfTar is still popular, and Flygon is still going to kill you. Moreover, you lose the ability to tank hits rom Suicune, Vaporeon, Jolteon, and the like well (Surf from the former two can deal ~50% with help of SR). Speaking of which, how is Raikou even going to switch in? With the loss of bulk, it's not going to be switching in on anything ouside of Blissey (who beats you) anytime soon and residual damage from entry hazards will also pose a huge problem >_>.
Like the Lapras set you a few pages ago, MixCM Raikou isn't effective in OU at all.
EDIT: Who uses Modest Starmie without Specs... or better yet, who uses Modest Starmie these days?
Anyways, contributin'
Now that we are in the Disable subject:
Golduck (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Disable
- Substitute
- Surf
This set is awesome if you're playing with a foe that use defensive or balanced teams (offensive teams are so powerful for him)
Basically, you come in something like heatran, hippowdon, tyranitar or any other pokemon that you can think it's scared of surf (or even ice beam) and you sub, the foe most of the time will switch to a counter, probably something with t bolt, a grass type move or a water type pokemon.
If that water type pokemon it's not something with water absorb (or if the foe doesnt have dry skin) then you're ready. I swear I've set up in the face of TENTACRUEL and they couldnt do a thing to me.
The point of disable it's to disable (d'uh) the super effective move (or the most powerful move) the foe may have.
inb4 heaters gonna heat
Now that we are in the Disable subject:
Golduck (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Disable
- Substitute
- Surf
This set is awesome if you're playing with a foe that use defensive or balanced teams (offensive teams are so powerful for him)
Basically, you come in something like heatran, hippowdon, tyranitar or any other pokemon that you can think it's scared of surf (or even ice beam) and you sub, the foe most of the time will switch to a counter, probably something with t bolt, a grass type move or a water type pokemon.
If that water type pokemon it's not something with water absorb (or if the foe doesnt have dry skin) then you're ready. I swear I've set up in the face of TENTACRUEL and they couldnt do a thing to me.
The point of disable it's to disable (d'uh) the super effective move (or the most powerful move) the foe may have.
inb4 heaters gonna heat