New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

i kinda thought the same concept but then concluded that its too weak in power to do anything useful i instead made it all physical like so (i posted it on this thread btw)
AGILINITE?
54hp/252atk/204speed
Life orb

Agility
Earthquake
Thunderpunch
Outrage

Basically I thought of this idea when I saw a dragonair use agility ingame (lol) and I was like WHAT? DRAGONITE CAN USE AGILITY? So I made a set for it. The speed evs allow it to outrun the bane of this pokemon's existence, scarfed Jirachi after one agility. A speedy Outrage is very devastating late game also.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
Why run this set when you can use Dragon Dance + Yache Berry to the same effect? You're working with 2.25x attack and 2.25x speed as oppose to 1.3x attack and 2.0x speed. Also, Earthquake doesn't even OHKO Jirachi, so I'm not sure what good that'll do. You should mention good partners for the set being Forretress, since it resists Dragon- and Ice-type moves and can set up Spikes and Toxic Spikes. You need those two entry hazards late game for bulky waters and such. I think Dragon Claw is a better option, but you're probably better off using the CB set and simply spamming Extremespeed. If you want versatility, then:

- Extremespeed
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
 
Anti-Lead

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid 252 spA / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Moveset:
-Hydro Pump
-Psychic
-Grass Knot
-Rapid Spin

Hydro Pump is your strongest attack and will OHKO Azelf (speed tie , focush sash , SR), Aerodactyl (higher speed , focus sash , SR), and Hippowdon (has nothing superior).

Psychic is there for your friendly Fighting and Poison typed leads like Machamp (doesn't carry focus sash), Infernape (slower, SR) and Roserade (slower, could throw a STAB grass attack at Starmie though , random entry hazards). All are cleanly OHKO'd.

Grass Knot has a good chance to OHKO a standard lead Swampert.

Last, but surely not least, this might even be the most important attack on this set: Rapid Spin. Why would this be important you may ask? Well, when all your opposing leads have 1hp left and they put entry hazards up, you could kill them using Rapid Spin! their entry hazards will be gone too.

There's nothing much you can do to Ninjask, however, but you should switch out and use Roar/Wirlwind, or trap and kill him or something....
 
Swampert, according to smogon.com/calc/, is never OHKO'd. Max damage is 95%.
Against Machamp, you'd likely switch.


Anyway, posting my own antilead Gallade. Comments/ critique?

Gallade - Anti Lead
@ Focus Sash
Adamant
252 ATT/ 200 SPE/ 58 HP
Close Combat
Shadow Sneak
Destiny Bond
Leaf Blade/ Taunt
As said before, Taunt is awfully slow. Instead I recommend using Encore. If you know the pokemon is faster by using Encore you force your opponent to switch out. Namely Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Ninjask.

If you're faster you can then attack them, they use Stealth Rock and than next turn you can use Encore.

Rest of your moveset is good, but if you do decide to use Encore I don't think Shadow Sneak will do you much good coming from an anti-lead Gallade. I think that works better with a Swords Dancer.

Instead replace it with either Ice Punch or Stone Edge so you can take down either a Gliscor lead or switched in Gyrardos.

Here is the anti-lead Gallade I use:


@ Focus Sash
Jolly
252 Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
Moveset:
Rock Slide (because I prefer the better accuracy and flinch)
Close Combat
Destiny Bond
Encore

Since Machamp Anti-Leads are so popular I may consider replacing Destiny Bond with Psycho Cut. Though this prevents me from using the Destiny Bond + Encore combination of forcing my opponent to use a non-offensive move after hitting them with DB, then using Encore in cases where I'm slower or they have a priority attack (i.e. Bullet Punching Metagross leads).
 
As said before, Taunt is awfully slow. Instead I recommend using Encore. If you know the pokemon is faster by using Encore you force your opponent to switch out. Namely Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Ninjask.

If you're faster you can then attack them, they use Stealth Rock and than next turn you can use Encore.

Rest of your moveset is good, but if you do decide to use Encore I don't think Shadow Sneak will do you much good coming from an anti-lead Gallade. I think that works better with a Swords Dancer.

Instead replace it with either Ice Punch or Stone Edge so you can take down either a Gliscor lead or switched in Gyrardos.

Here is the anti-lead Gallade I use:


@ Focus Sash
Jolly
252 Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
Moveset:
Rock Slide (because I prefer the better accuracy and flinch)
Close Combat
Destiny Bond
Encore

Since Machamp Anti-Leads are so popular I may consider replacing Destiny Bond with Psycho Cut. Though this prevents me from using the Destiny Bond + Encore combination of forcing my opponent to use a non-offensive move after hitting them with DB, then using Encore in cases where I'm slower or they have a priority attack (i.e. Bullet Punching Metagross leads).
Well Shadow Sneak is to catch them on the second turn while not taking any damage yourself and possibly still retaining your sash if they decide to SR on the first turn (Ape/ Aero).

Also,
how do you get DB + Encore on a Gallade?
 
Destiny Bond + Encore is definitely legal, since I only play the actual Pokemon games and not Shoddy.

A Gulpin father can pass on both Encore and Destiny Bond.
 
Well, if you ask for it.
Dragonite @Life Orb/White Herb

Mild Nature
115Atk/204Spe/188SpA |52Atk/204Spe/248SpA | 252Atk/4Spe/252SpA
~Agility
~Superpower
~Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
~Fire Blast/Roost/Thunderbolt
All calcs assuming Life Orb and the first Ev spread.

Draco Meteor does 52.1% - 61.1% to standard Spiker Skarmory, despite being resisted. You can pick her off with Fire Blast anyway for a OHKO.

Draco Meteor also does 66.6%-78.6% to Swampert, allowing stuff like Rotom-W to sweep later without worry.

Draco Meteor to Physical Zapdos does 73.6%-86.9%, 53-62.9% to Specially Defensive Zapdos. It's a OHKO after Stealth Rock using spread 2 with 77.5% - 91.6% on Physical Zapdos.

Rotom is slaughtered with most defensive variants eating 80.3% - 94.7% from Draco Meteor, a chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock

Fire Blast does 65.1% - 76.9% to Bronzong for a 2HKO.

Draco Meteor hits Dusknoir for 67.7% - 79.9%, OHKO after Spikes.

Draco Meteor blah blah Crocune blah blah 56.7% - 66.8% but he can't hurt you much. Offensive Suicune gets hit for 67% - 78.9% slightly more with a chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock or Spikes.

Oh, and don't forget the OHKOs on ScarfGon/Tran/Tar/Starmie/blah.

In short, use this for holepunching purposes only and on teams which appreciate Starmie/Flygon/Heatran/ScarfTar/blah lured and killed.
 

Umbreon - Assistant to the Regional Wall Killer
@ Leftovers / Lum Berry
252 HP / 252 Sp.Def / 4 Def
Mean Look
Tickle
Wish
Protect / Substitute

This set is designed to Tickle a wall down to really low Defense and Attack, then switch into a Pursuiter and rain on its parade. Should be used in tandem with a Scarf / Band Ttar. To give an idea about how well this could work, Banded Ttar does 78.1% - 92.2% to a -6 Skarmory on the switchout (not that a Skarmory would ever let Umbreon Tickle it 6 times, as it would just whirlwind you out).

Lum is Slashed to go along with Substitute. As of right now, I'm not sure which set would do better.
 
Tickle Umbreon is useless against any team that is not a stall team. Any player using an offensive or balanced team could easily switch to a U-turner or Fighting type on the Mean Look and force Umbreon out. Even against stall teams it would be mostly useless, since stall teams always carry pseudo-hazers. Not to mention that Tickle Umbreon is destroyed by Taunt and can use nothing but Struggle if Taunted.

Agility Mixnite looks like it would be a good partner to Gyarados. It lures out some of Gyarados's main counters and revenge-killers, most notably Flygon, Starmie, Jirachi, Celebi, and bulky Waters. However, you have to choose to be beaten by either Jirachi and Celebi or Starmie, Suicune, and Vaporeon. If you're not worried about Heatran, Tyranitar, and Blissey, you could go purely Special and forgo Superpower. Heatran, Tyranitar and Blissey rarely switch into Dragonite anyway, so if you were using this Dragonite solely as a lure, all Special would be the most useful. Going all Special also means you can use a Modest nature and invest EVs in HP. But if you're using this Dragonite as a general wallbreaker, it would be best to forgo Thunderbolt and run a moveset of Agility/Superpower/Draco Meteor/Fire Blast. A Super Effective Thunderbolt is slightly weaker than a neutral Draco Meteor, so Thunderbolt is only useful for the Paralysis chance and higher Accuracy, or for if you want to use Special attacks more than once. Life Orb is a better choice than White Herb, since Dragonite needs the extra power for key OHKOs and will often not get the opprotunity to use its stat-lowering moves twice before it is revenge-killed.
 
I have a set for Froslass. This set already existed, but I've modified it slightly.



Froslass w/ Leftovers/Brightpowder if on a Hail team
Snow Cloak
Bold
248 HP, 228 Def/SD, 32 Def/SD
Ice Beam/Shadow Ball/Hidden Power (Fire)/Blizzard (If on a Hail team)
Spikes
Taunt
Pain Split


I call it "Spin Blocking Froslass" or "Stallbreaker Froslass". This is because this Froslass is designed to, rather than being a lead, to be a mid-to-late game Pokemon. This set exercises what is arguably Froslass' most useful trait: It's a spin-blocker with a hazard move. The bulk allows you to block Rapid Spin and survive most Rapid Spinners' other attacks (I don't have logs, just experience from battling and some general calcs I forgot). Taunt is really the crux of this set, and why I labeled it an anti-stall Pokemon. You come in to block Rapid Spin from Forretress, for example, and Taunt it on the next turn. Forretress is now useless against you, as Payback and Gyro Ball are both survivable. You then begin Spiking. This works against Stall Pokemon in general, as Froslass' blistering base-110 Speed allows you to out-speed most defensive Pokemon, Taunt while the EVs let you shrug off their weak attacks, and begin Spiking. Obviously, it's good to have a phazer with Roar/Whirlwind to take advantage of the hazards, and a sweeper to take advantage of the damage. A Rapid Spinner of your own is nice, as it lets Froslass come in more often. Pain Split is there to provide some "healing", and it helps that most defensive Pokemon have more HP than Froslass, i.e Blissey. Also, having a Pokemon to spread Toxic around your opponent's team is great too. A Tentacruel with Toxic Spikes, or Stallbreaker Gliscor works well. This allows Froslass to actually outlast an opponent's Pokemon. The attacking move is up to you. I use Ice Beam since I'm not attacking so much and it's my best move, but HP Fire does a number on Forretress, and Shadow Ball has STAB and hurts Starmie.
I use this set in tandem with Gliscor and Tangrowth to support a DDtar sweep. It's a nasty combination, with Gliscor's Toxic poisoning a good deal of the opponent, and Mojombo's Leech Seed sucks health away and gives it back to me. I have SR support as well, so switching in sucks for my opponents. I have many games where opponents switch in and take 18% from Spikes, 12% from SR, 6% from Sandstorm and 12% from Leech Seed. That's 48% on one turn, which is amazing.
Obviously this set isn't as effective against pure offensive teams, since it can't weather repeated assaults from incredibly powerful attackers. Base 70 defenses aren't amazing, after all. But it really does a number on Stall teams, and if you have a second Ghost for some reason (Or if you use Britscor for a Spin-blocker like me... dick) it really screws stuff up.

Some of you might say the set sucks since it isn't as bulky as some other Pokemon, and others might hate me since I didn't really come up with it. Here's another Spin Blocking Froslass I DID make, and this one trades beating on Stall teams for offensive power.


Froslass w/ Life Orb/Leftovers/Brightpowder w/ Abomasnow on the team and massive injection of douche
Snow Cloak
Modest/Timid
252 SA, 252 Spd, 6 HP
Shadow Ball
Hidden Power (Fire)
Spikes
Sleep Talk/Taunt/Ice Beam/Blizzard (If on a Hail team)/Pain Split/Substitute/Toxic/Thunder Wave/You get the idea


This Froslass comes in on a Rapid Spin, and does one of thwo things:

1. Spikes
2. Kills the Rapid Spinner

It's pretty simple. STAB Shadow Ball OHKOs Starmie, and HP Fire usually OHKOs Forretress. Since very few teams pack more than one Rapid Spinner, this set tends to make your hazards permanent. Leftovers gives you recovery, Life Orb grants you more power, and BP is just to be a jerk. The final move is up to you and what you feel like using. T-Wave/Toxic cripples switch-ins, Taunt lets you bash on Stall to an extent, Ice Beam/Blizzard is for extra STAB, Pain Split "heals", etc. I'm not 100% sure if Froslass learns Sleep Talk, but if it does, I'd recommend that for some extra utility. It works pretty well, but beware LO Starmie running Rapid Spin, since they'll KO you pretty handily. I shouldn't have to say it, but USE FROSLASS FOR MID-TO-LATE GAME. It works great OUTSIDE the lead position, and this set was not designed to do well in the lead spot to begin with.

EDIT: I've done the calcs, and you need Life Orb to OHKO Rapid Spinning Starmie, and even then it needs to switch into SR to always be OHKOd (Factoring in Lefties). You can run Modest, though, and always OHKO. Timid HP Fire ALWAYS OHKOs Defensive Forretress regardless of your item, but Specially defensive variants need some wearing down to get the OHKO with Life Orb. Modest Froslass with Life Orb will ALWAYS OHKO Forretress with HP Fire after Forretress switches into SR (Not factoring in Lefties, since some Forry run Shed Shell). Still, after taking a hit, both of these Pokemon are severely crippled. I have, however, changed the set for Modest nature, since Timid Froslass still doesn't outspeed RS Starmie.

Well, I hope this helps Froslass get the love it deserves. :)

EDIT: F*** YEAH AGILENITE! I've been using that set since the day Mence was banned to great effect (Well, not that exact set, but 252 Atk, enough speed to outspeed Scarfed-100s, and then all HP). It's great with a lot of support to weaken counters, and then just lower the boom. Outspeed most of the popular counters, and from there your sweep is pretty free.
 
Has anyone figured out a nice bulky swords dance lucario set to use? There was a user on shoddy named 'kgrapes2' that used it quite effectively on my semi-balanced team. I know it had a speed stat slower than 247 so it probably had no speed EVs
 
Has anyone figured out a nice bulky swords dance lucario set to use? There was a user on shoddy named 'kgrapes2' that used it quite effectively on my semi-balanced team. I know it had a speed stat slower than 247 so it probably had no speed EVs
I'm not sure if there would be a specific build that would allow Lucario to take, say, an Earthquake from Gliscor without either severely dropping power or running Shuca Berry.
 
There's some guy running around OU RMT with this, IIRC:


Lucario @ Shuca Berry
Adamant
252 HP|252 Attack|4 Defense
Swords Dance
Extremespeed
Close Combat
?? Can't remember, maybe Ice Punch or Crunch?

The point was that it could come in on something that wants to switch out, SD, and SD again on the EQ, then attack with +4 Extremespeed/CC/w/e.
 
There's some guy running around OU RMT with this, IIRC:


Lucario @ Shuca Berry
Adamant
252 HP|252 Attack|4 Defense
Swords Dance
Extremespeed
Close Combat
?? Can't remember, maybe Ice Punch or Crunch?

The point was that it could come in on something that wants to switch out, SD, and SD again on the EQ, then attack with +4 Extremespeed/CC/w/e.
Hmmm thamks guys. It's probably ice punch on the last set and it definitely has no speed EVs.
 
There's some guy running around OU RMT with this, IIRC:


Lucario @ Shuca Berry
Adamant
252 HP|252 Attack|4 Defense
Swords Dance
Extremespeed
Close Combat
?? Can't remember, maybe Ice Punch or Crunch?

The point was that it could come in on something that wants to switch out, SD, and SD again on the EQ, then attack with +4 Extremespeed/CC/w/e.
Likely Ice Punch, yes. I can see the point of this one, to get +4 and rely on Extremespeed most of the time. I would think it actually would NEED to get two Dances up in order to help override the Life Orb damage. Also, I'm not entirely sure if a +4 Extremespeed would KO something like Gliscor safely. Hippowdown I don't worry about since this Lucario can outspeed, but things like Tyranitar and Heatran still trouble me. Perhaps this can be best used with a lure for them. I would think Rotom or Gengar would be nice choices as they each can cripple Heatran or Tyranitar (Via either Subbing to Focus Blast or Burning/Discharge). It could also help come in to resist faster Fighting strikes like Infernape and some of the stronger Earthquakes like from Metagross.
 
252 Adamant Lucario +4 ExtremeSpeed vs. 252/4 Jolly Gliscor : 59% - 69.8%

Yeah, not gonna work. Also, you still can't past Rotom-H.
I'm not suggesting it by any means. Only noting the fact that it was one hell of a late game sweeper when it could actually survive an attack LOL
 
Max HP with Shuca is near useless. It's kind of embarrassing for Lucario to lose to Heatran and Breloom, but tieing with other Lucario is way too useful to give up for the chance to survive... uh, +1 Mamoswine's Earthquake?
 
@ nevada11: I used the SDLuke set with the alternate bulky spread in Smogon's analysis. Don't know if it's still there or not, but it does have a few(and I do mean few)more chances to come in and set up since you are working off Luke's resistances to come in. The problem with it is while it can survive weaker attacks(EQ/Earth Power and Fire Blast still OHKO it), I often found myself going to +4 just to get the same power output(that and the Impish nature I had was "counterproductive"). The one I used was this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Nature: Impish(+Def, -SpA)
EV's: 252 HP / 96 Def / 136 SpD / 24 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Crunch/Ice Punch
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed

IMO, you HAVE to use Adamant since there is a big power drop. Like I said, many times you will want to SD up twice, which in some cases you can surprisingly.
 
@ nevada11: I used the SDLuke set with the alternate bulky spread in Smogon's analysis. Don't know if it's still there or not, but it does have a few(and I do mean few)more chances to come in and set up since you are working off Luke's resistances to come in. The problem with it is while it can survive weaker attacks(EQ/Earth Power and Fire Blast still OHKO it), I often found myself going to +4 just to get the same power output(that and the Impish nature I had was "counterproductive"). The one I used was this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Nature: Impish(+Def, -SpA)
EV's: 252 HP / 96 Def / 136 SpD / 24 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Crunch/Ice Punch
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed

IMO, you HAVE to use Adamant since there is a big power drop. Like I said, many times you will want to SD up twice, which in some cases you can surprisingly.
Ah, so I take that you're kgrapes2. Well thanks for the set. I used to use a late game SD Lucario until I realized it's pointless trying setting up if it gets OHKO's by every offensive move in the darn game. (a 2HKO is good enough for me). I'll be sure to consider this moveset ^^
 
@ nevada11: I used the SDLuke set with the alternate bulky spread in Smogon's analysis. Don't know if it's still there or not, but it does have a few(and I do mean few)more chances to come in and set up since you are working off Luke's resistances to come in. The problem with it is while it can survive weaker attacks(EQ/Earth Power and Fire Blast still OHKO it), I often found myself going to +4 just to get the same power output(that and the Impish nature I had was "counterproductive"). The one I used was this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Nature: Impish(+Def, -SpA)
EV's: 252 HP / 96 Def / 136 SpD / 24 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Crunch/Ice Punch
-Close Combat
-Extremespeed

IMO, you HAVE to use Adamant since there is a big power drop. Like I said, many times you will want to SD up twice, which in some cases you can surprisingly.
That alternate build seems MUCH too weak. It has no boosting nature and no EVs, and I would think that the power output would be severely lacking. It would be bad enough that certain things would still be outspeeding Lucario (We are focusing on an SD version, after all.), and that he wouldn't be able to do much back with this spread with even +6 is staggering.

I know that many times we must choose between raw power and survivability, but I honestly prefer the Shuca version more because it can still hurt things and taking the one crucial hit Luke needs to set up. Though if a Gliscor shown up and it has Leftovers, I would go for the Ice Punch or switch instead of going for the second SD, seeing how not even +4 Extremespeed stands a chance of killing it. Yes, it'd be unRoostable, but the fact remains that it can still kill you with a second Earthquake and live to either Roost or switch.
 

Set Name: Dual Status
Move 1: Thunder wave/Body Slam
Move 2: Water Pulse
Move 3: Roost
Move 4: Air Slash/Substitute
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
This set, much like the flinch set, aims to abuse Serene Grace, but with a new move; Water Pulse. Water Pulse isn't often seen in competitive play, however, it has 40% to confuse the target. (With serene grace). When Paralized, Confused, and had air slash used, the opponent should have about 2% to attack. It's a very effective strategy, and one that you might like to examine.
 

Set Name: Dual Status
Move 1: Thunder wave/Body Slam
Move 2: Water Pulse
Move 3: Roost
Move 4: Air Slash/Substitute
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
This set, much like the flinch set, aims to abuse Serene Grace, but with a new move; Water Pulse. Water Pulse isn't often seen in competitive play, however, it has 40% to confuse the target. (With serene grace). When Paralized, Confused, and had air slash used, the opponent should have about 2% to attack. It's a very effective strategy, and one that you might like to examine.
2% chance to attack? Wow, definitely trying this out.


Warning: gimmicks follow;
Maybe with a +Speed nature and 252 Speed Ev's it would be more beneficial? I mean, the point of this set is to abuse hax, right? 196 speed is a little low, and running more speed might give you the advantage, and it would aim to do what this set is made for.
Bulky or Speedy, it raises a question.

Regardless, I'm neutral about this set. Need to play on wifi with it and see how it does
 
2% chance to attack? Wow, definitely trying this out.


Warning: gimmicks follow;
Maybe with a +Speed nature and 252 Speed Ev's it would be more beneficial? I mean, the point of this set is to abuse hax, right? 196 speed is a little low, and running more speed might give you the advantage, and it would aim to do what this set is made for.
Bulky or Speedy, it raises a question.

Regardless, I'm neutral about this set. Need to play on wifi with it and see how it does
You don't need speed investment because paralysis thirds their speed. Thunder Wave should be the first move you use, then Water Pulse or Air Slash. Although, I'm not really sure how well Water Pulse would work, considering its main switchins are Rotom-A, Zapdos, Snorlax, Blissey, Heatran, and Tyranitar.
 
For that Togekiss, if you really are dead-set on flinching someone to death that won't die in 3 hits (Thunder Wave + Water Pulse + Air Slash = three possible Air Slashes or Aura Spheres), I highly suggest using Swagger as the move to confuse with. It has a 100% chance to confuse if it hits (90% accuracy), which is much more efficient than Water Pulse, and the increased attack coming at you is mitigated by the fact that they can only attack you ~15% of the time successfully.

But, really, take a look at that scenario. What pokemon is going to switch in and eat a Thunder Wave, then sit there and let you Water Pulse and Air Slash it to death that you can't beat by simply switching to something that actually can handle it?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top