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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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DahliaSky said:
I dono about you guys, but I'm actually finding the speed that water/sand gain to be pretty easy to match/beat.

I started on my team running a max speed kingdra. Kills most kingdra as they're modest, and can use a rain team as setup. Also carries rain dance so I can counter ttar/ninetails without even switching out.

I also started testing blaziken. With all of these wimpy weather leads coming first, I can easily get a +2 passed to a poke with more base speed and power than whatever weather breakers are currently up (i prefer tek, as he gets to almost 700 speed and can ohko almost every frail sweeper). And with the new system, if they have a misch heart, i just put mine first and make sure it has the fastest possible taunt.

Agility on landlos also does wonders, putting him just over 600 speed and outrunning most abusers.

While everyone else is worried about weather threats, these type of things can pretty reliably counter them all. I also like to keep a breloom around to stop stall... but getting that breloom a +3 speed means he can sleep almost anything, and then just sweep.

Weather is set in its ways, so use it's weaknesses against it. These type of counters work far better than bulky walls.

I'm not saying that I'm against or for any bans yet... just wanted to say that the strategies are out there to make a near perfect anti-weather team while still maintaining usefulness of each member of the team... and without using your own auto weather ^^.

Personally I think something should probably get banned... but i'm still a bit fuzzy on just what to do. Until then, be creative. See if you can un-break what everyone else is calling broken. I know I certainly have... I haven't lost to a weather team in a long time- its the normal teams that are hard fights again.
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1) Kingdra with Rain Dance and Timid is clearly niche and severely less useful against non-Rain teams.
2)BP Blaziken isn't available yet, come on.
3) Landlos IS a sand abuser. RP Landlos is incredibly good on sand teams
4)The reason normal teams are hard fights for you is because you hampered your team to counter rain, LIKE I'VE BEEN SAYING
 
DahliaSky said:
I dono about you guys, but I'm actually finding the speed that water/sand gain to be pretty easy to match/beat.

I started on my team running a max speed kingdra. Kills most kingdra as they're modest, and can use a rain team as setup. Also carries rain dance so I can counter ttar/ninetails without even switching out.

I also started testing blaziken. With all of these wimpy weather leads coming first, I can easily get a +2 passed to a poke with more base speed and power than whatever weather breakers are currently up (i prefer tek, as he gets to almost 700 speed and can ohko almost every frail sweeper). And with the new system, if they have a misch heart, i just put mine first and make sure it has the fastest possible taunt.

Agility on landlos also does wonders, putting him just over 600 speed and outrunning most abusers.

While everyone else is worried about weather threats, these type of things can pretty reliably counter them all. I also like to keep a breloom around to stop stall... but getting that breloom a +3 speed means he can sleep almost anything, and then just sweep.

Weather is set in its ways, so use it's weaknesses against it. These type of counters work far better than bulky walls.

I'm not saying that I'm against or for any bans yet... just wanted to say that the strategies are out there to make a near perfect anti-weather team while still maintaining usefulness of each member of the team... and without using your own auto weather ^^.

Personally I think something should probably get banned... but i'm still a bit fuzzy on just what to do. Until then, be creative. See if you can un-break what everyone else is calling broken. I know I certainly have... I haven't lost to a weather team in a long time- its the normal teams that are hard fights again.
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Btw,these aren't really "counters".
They can't just switch in and threaten the rain sweepers.
They're checks at best.
 
Kingdra can come in on water moves and landlos on eqs,actually.

But again;kingdra is less useful outside of rain and rock polish landlos without sand power is not very useful. Using rain dance doesn't solve the problem that well.
 
Kefka the god of magic said:
Btw,these aren't really "counters".
They can't just switch in and threaten the rain sweepers.
They're checks at best.
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Lol, i suggest a strategy and you suggest i meant it as the conventional counter. I explained that they aren't.

and regardless of bp, agility on any strong pokemon does the trick normally. (lucario anyone?)

I'm not saying that they are counters in the conventional sense, I'm saying that the Agility user playstyle tends to beat the weather style because the users are more powerful and pretty easy to get out as fast as drizzle/switch is. It also removes the weakness of having your weather change.

Also not saying its the only strategy, as nattorei or simaler can be a real help to a team to cause the oponent to change/take a twave and give you a chance.

Again, i'm in no way saying that weather is not broken. All I do know is that its not too hard to match its speed/power if you put thought into your team. I still agree with you all in what you said in rebut to my post, but it doesn't change my point that landlos is an abuser, as he works well to beat rain IN RAIN if he has an agi as well.

Also, my team isn't crippled against normal teams. I do as I normally would if i made a normal team. They are just the hardest teams for me.
 
DahliaSky said:
Lol, i suggest a strategy and you suggest i meant it as the conventional counter. I explained that they aren't.

and regardless of bp, agility on any strong pokemon does the trick normally. (lucario anyone?)

I'm not saying that they are counters in the conventional sense, I'm saying that the Agility user playstyle tends to beat the weather style because the users are more powerful and pretty easy to get out as fast as drizzle/switch is. It also removes the weakness of having your weather change.

Also not saying its the only strategy, as nattorei or simaler can be a real help to a team to cause the oponent to change/take a twave and give you a chance.

Again, i'm in no way saying that weather is not broken. All I do know is that its not too hard to match its speed/power if you put thought into your team. I still agree with you all in what you said in rebut to my post, but it doesn't change my point that landlos is an abuser, as he works well to beat rain IN RAIN if he has an agi as well.

Also, my team isn't crippled against normal teams. I do as I normally would if i made a normal team. They are just the hardest teams for me.
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Your team is made of either niche or illegal pokemon. Way to go.
 
DahliaSky said:
Lol, i suggest a strategy and you suggest i meant it as the conventional counter. I explained that they aren't.

and regardless of bp, agility on any strong pokemon does the trick normally. (lucario anyone?)

I'm not saying that they are counters in the conventional sense, I'm saying that the Agility user playstyle tends to beat the weather style because the users are more powerful and pretty easy to get out as fast as drizzle/switch is. It also removes the weakness of having your weather change.

Also not saying its the only strategy, as nattorei or simaler can be a real help to a team to cause the oponent to change/take a twave and give you a chance.

Again, i'm in no way saying that weather is not broken. All I do know is that its not too hard to match its speed/power if you put thought into your team. I still agree with you all in what you said in rebut to my post, but it doesn't change my point that landlos is an abuser, as he works well to beat rain IN RAIN if he has an agi as well.

Also, my team isn't crippled against normal teams. I do as I normally would if i made a normal team. They are just the hardest teams for me.
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he does the oh u say that it's not X but Y so i'll make a huge fuss over it to every1 w/ a different opinion than him + accuses us of being biased.
 
masterful said:
Your team is made of either niche or illegal pokemon. Way to go.
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I love that you think i just put my team up here instead of listing possible things i've tried on separate teams that work. Most of these pokemon are not niche, just pokemon with slight tweeks to fit my team/style, since I don't and never have used exactly the sets on any given place.
 
DahliaSky said:
I love that you think i just put my team up here instead of listing possible things i've tried on separate teams that work. Most of these pokemon are not niche, just pokemon with slight tweeks to fit my team/style, since I don't and never have used exactly the sets on any given place.
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You mean slight tweaks which make your pokes really bad at anything but countering rain? Have fun with your random-ass Rain Dance Kingdra with Timid.
fidgety said:
some1 already brought that up.
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Yeah...me
 
I'm sorry, I just thought that maybe a few people would want to know that there are strategies that can work that aren't defensive (not 100%, as you have to use them well... just like a defensive team can't just send out 1 stall at a time till it dies).

If i was wrong, i sincerely apologize and don't wish to cause any more trouble. Sorry.
 
DahliaSky said:
I'm sorry, I just thought that maybe a few people would want to know that there are strategies that can work that aren't defensive (not 100%, as you have to use them well... just like a defensive team can't just send out 1 stall at a time till it dies).

If i was wrong, i sincerely apologize and don't wish to cause any more trouble. Sorry.
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All you did was confirm what I said, being that in order to counter Drizzle, your pokes must be severely hampered against non-rain teams
 
masterful said:
All you did was confirm what I said, being that in order to counter Drizzle, your pokes must be severely hampered against non-rain teams
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I dono about severe, but i do agree that they need to be specialized. It's certainly far more than should be necessary, and definitely takes away from he team's ability to deal with normal threats... no matter how much you try.
 
TTar, Empoleon, Roobushin, Breloom, Rankurusu, Rotom-W.

Pretty useless yeah.

Also Unaware Quagsire, Technitop, and Blissey/Chansey/Burungeru for special Kingdra and stuff.

I don't think these are useless outside rain, and are certainly not "just a handful".
 
TTar only changes the weather and is supposed to come in on non-water attacks....

Empoleon has no purpose staying in on Toxicroak/Ludicolo....(Not to mention PO's usage statistics for wifi show 0% of Kingdra run HP Fighting)

Roob only needs 1-2 BUs and Mach Punch to shit over Kabutops and Ludicolo...

Breloom: In DW, comparable to Roob, in standard, set up a sub on Natt and watch as you get at least one guaranteed kill...

But of course, if you'e doing random stuff and just bringing in your TTar straight in to a Kingdra, or bringing in Breloom straight in to an attack then of course you'll be fucked.
 
UnhandledException said:
TTar only changes the weather and is supposed to come in on non-water attacks....

Empoleon has no purpose staying in on Toxicroak/Ludicolo....(Not to mention PO's usage statistics for wifi show 0% of Kingdra run HP Fighting)

Roob only needs 1-2 BUs and Mach Punch to shit over Kabutops and Ludicolo...

Breloom: In DW, comparable to Roob, in standard, set up a sub on Natt and watch as you get at least one guaranteed kill...

But of course, if you'e doing random stuff and just bringing in your TTar straight in to a Kingdra, or bringing in Breloom straight in to an attack then of course you'll be fucked.
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1.I've put T-tar into a check mate position. It's not that hard with hazards and Nattorei's Gyro ball hitting for SE.

2.Ehh,Ludicolo can Hydro Pump you as you get your single BU. Or I can just switch in Toxicroak,which can wall you.

3.Empoleon is just out classed and if you use him,well it's not like he can threaten much,the mons aren't THAT heavy.

4.Techniloom is illegal ATM,so I'll talk about standard....Nattorei is pretty much your only hope :/ Anything else will out speed and OHKO.
 
fidgety said:
so everything needs a large # of 100% hard counter now 2 be ou is that what u r saying.
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Please use real words. I feel like I have to decode everything you say. If you need to significantly hamper your team to counter one specific strategy, that strategy is likely broken. That's what I'm saying
 
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