-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?
- Thread starter Philip7086
- Start date
- Status
1. As I said before Heracross cant come in on a psychic or it'd get ohkoed. Not only that but it cant even combat the Trick Room set. It would get "Outspeed" under a trick room and ohkoed by psychic.
2. Gliscor is 2hkoed by +0 Psychic.
3. Fair enough then I'm just stating the facts here.
I'm not talking about checks. Heracross, Gliscor, and Hydreigon are checks. I want counters. Stuff that can take all of it's attacks with reasonable hp remaining and cripple or take it out. That's the only way you could truly make a case to keep Reuniclus OU.
Combos of pokes can easily take it out if it's a Cm set. Other things can easily stall out TR as well. The problem is that the Cm set KILLS stall, as any stall team untailored to counter Reuniclus can't fight it at all
There's not a lot of counters to a lot of things in the metagame, some things that haven't been nominated (or at least not significantly).
Terakion, for example, have few (if any) counters; Garchomp still has no "counters" outside of Bronzong (although the presence of Balloon means Chomp has a lot more checks); Celebi has no counter to every set (not that I'm saying Celebi is anywhere near as bad as Terakion or Chomp); Boroterosu has few counters too, that I can think of. These are just off the top of my head, and all generally have a way around would be counters (Boro has Hammer Arm, for T-Tar, for example); Mence has no counters still.
Terakion, for example, have few (if any) counters; Garchomp still has no "counters" outside of Bronzong (although the presence of Balloon means Chomp has a lot more checks); Celebi has no counter to every set (not that I'm saying Celebi is anywhere near as bad as Terakion or Chomp); Boroterosu has few counters too, that I can think of. These are just off the top of my head, and all generally have a way around would be counters (Boro has Hammer Arm, for T-Tar, for example); Mence has no counters still.
Anything with Encore alongside a physical attacker that can 2HKO is a counter for the CM set unless he manages to outpredict you.
@masterful
Yea I know. That's can be part of the case to keep Reuniclus OU. The fact that you can play around it easily and take it out is very good. However, with the sheer lack of popular counters Reuniclus has you cant make much of case in the end. Reuniclus needs more counters to solidify the case otherwise your not gonna turn over many people.
Terrakion has a major counter in Gliscor. Taking both it's stabs and can ohko with earthquake. Garchomp was broken last gen and is possibly broken this gen. It's in the same boat as Reuniclus and pretty soon I fear it will be on the chopping block called nominations for uber. I'd say the exact same thing for Boroterosu except it is in the EXACT same spot as reuniclus. It's been nominated for Uber. A lack of counters makes for a good case for something to be Uber. That's just common sense.
Yea I know. That's can be part of the case to keep Reuniclus OU. The fact that you can play around it easily and take it out is very good. However, with the sheer lack of popular counters Reuniclus has you cant make much of case in the end. Reuniclus needs more counters to solidify the case otherwise your not gonna turn over many people.
Terrakion has a major counter in Gliscor. Taking both it's stabs and can ohko with earthquake. Garchomp was broken last gen and is possibly broken this gen. It's in the same boat as Reuniclus and pretty soon I fear it will be on the chopping block called nominations for uber. I'd say the exact same thing for Boroterosu except it is in the EXACT same spot as reuniclus. It's been nominated for Uber. A lack of counters makes for a good case for something to be Uber. That's just common sense.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be banned, but it should be banned because it destroys stall, not because it is uncounterable. Any team with a few powerful attackers with good coverage can break through CM Rank, and any balanced or stall team can stall out TR and eventually take it out. Cm Rank ruins stall, and that is why it should be banned
If I understand Masterful right.
Reun is messing destroying a popular playstyle. Considering really that the metagame is meant to be enjoyed, and considering that UU and NU don't even exist. If Reun is taking away a popular style that is a draw to the game, then he probably should go regardless of whether he is broken or not.
Reun is messing destroying a popular playstyle. Considering really that the metagame is meant to be enjoyed, and considering that UU and NU don't even exist. If Reun is taking away a popular style that is a draw to the game, then he probably should go regardless of whether he is broken or not.
I could say the exact same thing about Dragonite you know. It actually breaks stall even better than last gen. Does that make it broken?
Scizor is actually a good part of stall teams. It can break Reuniclus rather easily. CM Roar Latias can be a good part of stall teams as well. A little experimentation goes a long way.
@Ensoriki
No. If he's not broken there's no point in banning him. He breaks stall but that can be said for many popular pokes. (Dragonite breaks stall)
Defensive counters to CM Rankurusu include but are not limited to:
CM Roar Latias
Spiritomb
Sableye (DW, requires subtorment if Rank is running shadow ball)
CM Jirachi (with wish, lol)
Unaware Quagisre
Terakion has plenty of counters like voltlos, dory, latios, latias, roobushin, scizor, rankurusu, and lots of others.
Garchomp has plenty of counters too like landlos, voltlos, latias, latios, scizor, Theres tons of walls that stop it too ( not going to name every check, counter) but ya, atm the most dangerous set IMO is the scarf set the only reason his sd set was dominant last gen was because he was the fastest dragon. He lost that title thanks to lati@s being ou.
Celebi? really?
Mence has tons of counters also, pretty much the same thing i mentioned above for garchomp.
But with the new generation came new checks and counters to many top threats last generation. There are counters to every pokemon in the metagame, just some have fewer than others (rankurusu) and are up for suspect voting.
Although I have not played with stall extensively, there are several walls that appear, on paper, to be able to stop Reuniclus:
Obviously, Curse Spiritomb is immune to the psychic/fighting combo used by most CM rank, as well as providing Curse to create a "win condition" against any pokemon besides reunc. Probably outclassed by Jellicent as a spin-blocker though.
Slowbro also resists the type combo and has great physical bulk. A great defense stat and the ability to CM means that it can maybe outstall Reunc
If Reuniclus is only at +1, taunt gliscor can come in and prevent it from boosting. Its great defense shrugs of weak psycho shocks and resists focus blast/hp fighting.
CM roar latias can force it out but you'll have to deal with it later.
Using your own CM Reuniclus also works, provided you start setting up first.
Obviously, Curse Spiritomb is immune to the psychic/fighting combo used by most CM rank, as well as providing Curse to create a "win condition" against any pokemon besides reunc. Probably outclassed by Jellicent as a spin-blocker though.
Slowbro also resists the type combo and has great physical bulk. A great defense stat and the ability to CM means that it can maybe outstall Reunc
If Reuniclus is only at +1, taunt gliscor can come in and prevent it from boosting. Its great defense shrugs of weak psycho shocks and resists focus blast/hp fighting.
CM roar latias can force it out but you'll have to deal with it later.
Using your own CM Reuniclus also works, provided you start setting up first.
I played stall to adapt to the metagame and all that.
Really it is true that CM rankurusu dominates stall teams. It gets no hazard damage and stall teams often don't have the offensive power to take him out with the bulk he has. Unlike other bulky calm minders they can get worn down by spikes/t-spikes. I literally had to pack a scizor on my stall team for the sole purpose of countering rank.
I ended up using a CM latias with roar, This helped a lot vs. rankurusu but the same goes for scizor, if latias or scizor were KO'd, i was screwed. And experienced players likely would have made sure to take them out before attempting to sweep with rank.
@ Nubbins : Curse doesn't effect it thanks to Magic Guard.
Deoxys-D with Taunt + Seismic Toss/Night Shade is the closest thing ive used that even comes close to beating it full stop on stall and is actually useful. Though with Shadow Ball D-D is screwed. Seriously though some of these so called counters and checks suck and don't even beat it lol. Not only does stuff like CM Lati just save it for later, it loses to Psycho Shock if you CM up with it so still don't deal with it well. The same can be said for most other counters. They just arent reliable.
EDIT : Sorry misread that haha
Deoxys-D with Taunt + Seismic Toss/Night Shade is the closest thing ive used that even comes close to beating it full stop on stall and is actually useful. Though with Shadow Ball D-D is screwed. Seriously though some of these so called counters and checks suck and don't even beat it lol. Not only does stuff like CM Lati just save it for later, it loses to Psycho Shock if you CM up with it so still don't deal with it well. The same can be said for most other counters. They just arent reliable.
EDIT : Sorry misread that haha
Yes, I do, and Spiritomb is excellent at beating: Rankurusu; Espeon/Xatu; all spinners one on one (with the added bonus of making sure Starmie never comes back).
All of which are big problems to Stall.
While you can't expect him to wall the entire world, and while he can't take too many powerful hits, he more than holds his own against things that other stall teams would really struggle with.
Yes, I know that from first-hand experience as a Reuniclus user. That's why I said Curse works for any pokemon besides Reuniclus. Which implies that bulky Spritomb can be used more than just checking Reuniclus, so people can't say it's "overcentralizing since it forces stall to use a pokemon that can't do anything else."
Also:
A counter is a Pokemon that you can fearlessly switch into another pokemon, regardless of the set the opponent pokemon is running. One example is switching in a Conckeldurr into a Aerodactyl, since aero can't do anything to dent Conckel.
A check is a Pokemon that is generally switched in after the opposing pokemon has KOed your current pokemon. An example is Mamoswine and Salamence. While Mamo can easily switch into the DD set, the mixed sets will completely devastate it. So it's not worth the risk to directly switch in mamo.
Are these the definitions everyone uses? Because I feel as if some people use different definitions.
@TLK whoops. I knew that *shifty eyes* Just wasn't thinking while typing
You got check and counter the wrong way round but other than that, yes, that's the definitions.
A counter can switch in and force something out because it cannot hurt them (e.g. a Skarmory is countered by Heatran).
A check is something that can come in after a KO (e.g. a Weavile is a check to a Salamence).
Sorry misread that. My bad.
That is a revenge killer, as it cant switch in. But i guess it depends on the circumstance.
Ive always though that; checks can actually switch in but arent 100% counters. See: Lucario checks T-Tar.
- Status