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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

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I've played against the dual screens/gorebyss strategy a couple of times and I've only lost to it once. Granted, I use pokemon with power swap, so that may have something to do with it. But normally, I try to take advantage of gorebyss' -1 defenses and ko it as it smashes or before it passes. It's powerful, yes, but it can be played around.

Deoxys-S is more annoying if you ask me. It's really annoying to stop it from setting up. You can't even taunt the thing and unlike Uxie, it's ALWAYS going to get screens up.
 
TLK said:
White Herb is the only item I'd ever use on Gorebyss, tbh. The defence drop isn't a problem then.
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Yeah, White Herb is standard on Gorebyss so that it can take priority, especially with dual screens, and maximize bulk for passing.

I agree to some extent about Deo-S, but there are several other pokes that can provide fast screens. Lati@s can also Memento on top of that and make setup even easier. Getting rid of Deo-S won't fix much.
 
After playing this meta a bit more, I really can't find any suspects. For the first time in gen 5, I can actually say I don't HATE playing OU now. Even though most of the teams I face have 0 originality. On a side note, I lol'd at some of the stuff mentioned for possible suspect tests recently.
 
Rawrbaby said:
After playing this meta a bit more, I really can't find any suspects. For the first time in gen 5, I can actually say I don't HATE playing OU now. Even though most of the teams I face have 0 originality. On a side note, I lol'd at some of the stuff mentioned for possible suspect tests recently.
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That's pretty much why I am hating OU right now. Same teams over and over, and even my creative teams, would almost alwayy be better with weather, just to counter other strategies (being unable to turn off the sun is a lot more scarier than it sounds). I have just faced about 4 diffrent people, all carrying sand teams, with maybe only 1-3 diffrent pokemon (all had Tyranitar, Gliscor, and most carried some combination of latios, dory, rand, ect).

I have been running a trick room team, and it honestly gets better with sand help. Basic teams I've seen are Sand, Rain, Sun, BP, or random stuff that usually just fails (although there was a decent gravity team).
 
Mishra said:
That's pretty much why I am hating OU right now. Same teams over and over, and even my creative teams, would almost alwayy be better with weather, just to counter other strategies (being unable to turn off the sun is a lot more scarier than it sounds). I have just faced about 4 diffrent people, all carrying sand teams, with maybe only 1-3 diffrent pokemon (all had Tyranitar, Gliscor, and most carried some combination of latios, dory, rand, ect).

I have been running a trick room team, and it honestly gets better with sand help. Basic teams I've seen are Sand, Rain, Sun, BP, or random stuff that usually just fails (although there was a decent gravity team).
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Total quote.

I enjoy one battle every 10-15 battles 'coz i face someone who uses an original team ._.
 
badabing said:
Yeah, White Herb is standard on Gorebyss so that it can take priority, especially with dual screens, and maximize bulk for passing.

I agree to some extent about Deo-S, but there are several other pokes that can provide fast screens. Lati@s can also Memento on top of that and make setup even easier. Getting rid of Deo-S won't fix much.
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Deoxys also has taunt and stealth rock which are extremely useful moves on a suicide lead especially when you run HO teams.

The problem I'm having with Deoxys and SS Gorebyss is that quite often the game is decided by a speed tie between the 2 Deoxys leads, basically the luckier taunter manages to set up and win the battle.
 
Haunter said:
Deoxys also has taunt and stealth rock which are extremely useful moves on a suicide lead especially when you run HO teams.

The problem I'm having with Deoxys and SS Gorebyss is that quite often the game is decided by a speed tie between the 2 Deoxys leads, basically the luckier taunter manages to set up and win the battle.
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I like to run magic coat deoxys for that reason, but it isn't as reliable as taunt and i can't really do anything against forretress. I can't pick if i should use taunt or magic coat.
 
Just worked out whilst doing some calcs that if you have two mons on your team who outspeed +2 Gorebyss and can OHKO it in normal conditions, it won't be getting a pass off. Alternatively, if you have something that outspeeds it, OHKOs normally and can live one unboosted hit, then you can also prevent it setting up and passing. This isn't as hard as it looks, as Timid Gorebyss fails to OHKO even a Sawsbuck with Ice Beam, for instance (which is what I worked this out from).

This relies on predicting when it comes in and double switching effectively, however, and therefore obviously relies upon the Deo-S or whatever the dual screener is switching out predictably (it probably wouldn't hurt to have something that can take on a Deo-S), so it's not foolproof, but is reasonably reliable, given Gorebyss' low speed. Just thought I'd mention this as a means of countering the strat for any finding it difficult.
 
Benlisted said:
Just worked out whilst doing some calcs that if you have two mons on your team who outspeed +2 Gorebyss and can OHKO it in normal conditions, it won't be getting a pass off. Alternatively, if you have something that outspeeds it, OHKOs normally and can live one unboosted hit, then you can also prevent it setting up and passing. This isn't as hard as it looks, as Timid Gorebyss fails to OHKO even a Sawsbuck with Ice Beam, for instance (which is what I worked this out from).

This relies on predicting when it comes in and double switching effectively, however, and therefore obviously relies upon the Deo-S or whatever the dual screener is switching out predictably (it probably wouldn't hurt to have something that can take on a Deo-S), so it's not foolproof, but is reasonably reliable, given Gorebyss' low speed. Just thought I'd mention this as a means of countering the strat for any finding it difficult.
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The problem is that dual screen memento latios laughs at that. First you have screens doubling their defence. Then you have memento halving your attack, unless you switch after gorebyss comes in. Staying in with something that could've ohko'd now only 4hko's. Switching to something that could've ohko'd gorebyss now only 2hko's.
 
Arc Tech said:
The problem is that dual screen memento latios laughs at that. First you have screens doubling their defence. Then you have memento halving your attack, unless you switch after gorebyss comes in. Staying in with something that could've ohko'd now only 4hko's. Switching to something that could've ohko'd gorebyss now only 2hko's.
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True, you do have to mix it up depending upon the dual screener. I was mainly mentioning this as a way of beating Deo-S and Gorebyss, which seemed to be most prevalent in this discussion, and is most problematic given you basically cannot Taunt him, or use phazing moves on him given his own Taunt/Magic Coat.

Latios is probably better dealt with by phazing or taunting due to its lesser speed, though admittedly they'll have the upper hand on you initially while you guess if it's a specs set or not. Outright attacking it with a scarfer works much better than with Deo as well, as it can get a screen up before anything can hit it, and Latios cannot. Memento is undoubtedly deadlier than mere dual screens if you get around this, however.
 
Actually Gorebyss can just set up on the turn you switch in your counter and baton pass safely to an appropriate receiver. Not to mention that after the speed boost it's nearly impossible to outspeed unless you're using Deoxys-S, which can't even OHKO Gorebyss, sacrificing it just to taunt Gorebyss.

Actually I've seen some smart players using perish song Politoed to stop the baton pass and I guess that something like PS Celebi may work as well.
 
Haunter said:
Actually Gorebyss can just set up on the turn you switch in your counter and baton pass safely to an appropriate receiver. Not to mention that after the speed boost it's nearly impossible to outspeed unless you're using Deoxys-S, which can't even OHKO Gorebyss, sacrificing it just to taunt Gorebyss.
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If you're referring to my ideas, then yes, you're right, but I intended (and mentioned) that you should double-switch in your Gorebyss counter. However, I didn't specify to do so the turn after Deo-S finishes screening and as Gorebyss comes in, letting you 2HKO Gorebyss before it can get the BP off, if you outspeed. Ofc the prediction isn't ideal, but it's fairly safe to assume that Deo-S will not stay in unless you would KO it with whatever attack you were using that turn anyway (works better if using something Gorebyss resists so it is more likely to switch in). Sorry for not making that clear, it is admittedly pretty convuluted and not 100% reliable, but is a way to beat it with things most teams have at least.
 
Perish Song Politoed simply doesn't work for stopping Gorebyss. It can simply stay in and rampage through most of a team with its boosted Surf or Hydro Pump. Celebi is far better, although it has to fear Ice Beam.
 
shell smash gorebyss only takes out other offensive teams. In ubers I gotten tossed aside due to priority. Most players that i win with only shell smash is that they SR first.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
Perish Song Politoed simply doesn't work for stopping Gorebyss. It can simply stay in and rampage through most of a team with its boosted Surf or Hydro Pump. Celebi is far better, although it has to fear Ice Beam.
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But if Toed P-Songs the turn Gorebyss switches in, it only has one turn to fire off an attack after boosting up (which Toed will probably resist, or at least something on Rain teams will) before the counter gets to 0. Since the turn counter is BPed, it means you can't use it to set up a sweeper, which is basically what you want to do when facing Gorebyss.
 
Yeah, these are going to be a bit more sporadic over the next week because of Reading Week. When I don't have a rigorous schedule for school, I don't have a rigorous schedule for anything :P

I got three battles this morning with my Landorus/Reuniclus team, going 2-1. The loss was pretty haxy on both sides so whatever... but it again had a Reuniclus on it, and I haven't been beating very many Reuniclus at all.

High-profile threats: 1 Shell Smash, 1 Reuniclus, 1 Latios, 1 Latias, 2 Excadrill

But yeah, this team seems to be the most successful by far: 12-4 so far. I'm short on time, so there's not much else to say for now.

EDIT: I do have one other thing to say: Bulky SD Scizor is amazing. It checks Gorebyss like a charm, and it seems to OHKO a bunch of things through screens, too.
 
Agreed. Scizor can set up on you and proceed to 2HKO Gorebyss through screens at +4 with Bug Bite+Bullet Punch.

Also, Smeargle is an amazing Shell Break Passer. It can Spore something, Shell Break on the switch, and Baton Pass. I use two screeners, two passers and two receivers and it works amazingly.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
Agreed. Scizor can set up on you and proceed to 2HKO Gorebyss through screens at +4 with Bug Bite+Bullet Punch.

Also, Smeargle is an amazing Shell Break Passer. It can Spore something, Shell Break on the switch, and Baton Pass. I use two screeners, two passers and two receivers and it works amazingly.
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Heh, I pulled that Scizor on you ;]

I haven't really been bothered by Smash Pass Gorebyss but I haven't faced a whole load of 'em either. I usually end up paralyzing their baton pass target with ferrothorn.

I have played with it a couple of times however, without Dual Screen support, and it's capable of pulling wins out of nowhere.
 
The Shadow Knight said:
Heh, I pulled that Scizor on you ;]

I haven't really been bothered by Smash Pass Gorebyss but I haven't faced a whole load of 'em either. I usually end up paralyzing their baton pass target with ferrothorn.

I have played with it a couple of times however, without Dual Screen support, and it's capable of pulling wins out of nowhere.
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Fun times :(

In any case, Ferrothorn can make a great Baton Pass check by just Thunder Waving Gorebyss or the recipient, effectivley crippling it for the rest of the match. Should I run Lum Berry on a receiver or is that going overboard?
 
smashlloyd20 said:
Fun times :(

In any case, Ferrothorn can make a great Baton Pass check by just Thunder Waving Gorebyss or the recipient, effectivley crippling it for the rest of the match. Should I run Lum Berry on a receiver or is that going overboard?
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Nitpick, crippeling Gorebyss with a T-Wave is not always an option, courtesy of Hydration.
If more people start using Ferrothorn to spam T-Wave it might be a good idea. Myself I can hardly remember the last time I ate a Ferrothorn's T-Wave. It's T-Wave is one of it's best assets imo, but few seem to agree.
 
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