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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

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Aeroblacktyl said:
Why do people act like Swift Swimmers are banned...you know if you're facing so many Drizzle and Politoed teams...why don't you just make a Swift Swim team and if you face someone who tries Rain...they're absolutely fucked, cause seriously, no one tries to prepare for Kingdra and Kabtops anyways except for the ALWAYS-USED-REGARDLESS-OF-WEATHER Ferrorthorn.

It's not like the team is useless without the opponent using Drizzle either. If they don't use any weather at all, your 8 turn Rains will feel like infinite rain. And if they have Tyranitar and Ninetales, let's face it, when you skim that team preview, you're a lot more careless with your weather starters when you see that they don't have their own.

Stop bitching over everything
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Well, if I see the opponent has a Kingdra somewhere, I'm not going to let my Ninetales die, but you're right regardless.
 
So, I want to add my 2 cents. I've always overlooked SB Blaziken. Maybe cause it was very easy for me to check it with my scarf chomp and roob. I saw this huge discussion and was tempted to try it out. I took ttar out from a sandstorm somewhat based team and just threw a SD/ Protect / HJK / Blaze Kick adamant Blaziken with wide lens cause miss is an endgame for it. I won 11 of 11 battles then climbing from 1310 to 1420.
This thing IS stupidly good. Then I was trying to figure out ways to deal with it. Something came to my mind.
Sand is the most used team theme in OU. SR is also mandatory since gen 4. Nattorei / Ferrothorn is one of the most used pokes nowadays. So, basically with sand up and rocks up you send nattorei. This pesky blaziken comes to setup on you. If you put rudged helmet on natty, after stealth rock, sand damage, steel thorns and helmet damage and life orb recoil, it will have taken 53% damage from the ko. If it uses flareblitz it is bar autokoed. A resisted priority or even protect causing HJK miss will ko it.

Is this simple? No! But it's manageble. Rudged helmet
Natt is indee useful outside that scenario. So is SS and also protect on some poke or priority (mandatory in the current metagame IMO)

Thoughts?
 
MajorGambit said:
So, I want to add my 2 cents. I've always overlooked SB Blaziken. Maybe cause it was very easy for me to check it with my scarf chomp and roob. I saw this huge discussion and was tempted to try it out. I took ttar out from a sandstorm somewhat based team and just threw a SD/ Protect / HJK / Blaze Kick adamant Blaziken with wide lens cause miss is an endgame for it. I won 11 of 11 battles then climbing from 1310 to 1420.
This thing IS stupidly good. Then I was trying to figure out ways to deal with it. Something came to my mind.
Sand is the most used team theme in OU. SR is also mandatory since gen 4. Nattorei / Ferrothorn is one of the most used pokes nowadays. So, basically with sand up and rocks up you send nattorei. This pesky blaziken comes to setup on you. If you put rudged helmet on natty, after stealth rock, sand damage, steel thorns and helmet damage and life orb recoil, it will have taken 53% damage from the ko. If it uses flareblitz it is bar autokoed. A resisted priority or even protect causing HJK miss will ko it.

Is this simple? No! But it's manageble. Rudged helmet
Natt is indee useful outside that scenario. So is SS and also protect on some poke or priority (mandatory in the current metagame IMO)

Thoughts?
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So what you're saying is if we put Natt on every team and kill Blaziken through recoil, he won't be broken?! Dude, that's not even worth an argument when Mixken has Fire Blast. Lol
 
That is irrelevant as MixKen is still widely used. Who's to say that it won't become the most used set next month, then SD becomes popularized the month after, followed by Work Up MixKen?

I'm not in the "there are only 2 blaziken checks" camp, but being forced to run Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn on every team is far from a solution.
 
IcyMan28 said:
That is irrelevant as MixKen is still widely used. Who's to say that it won't become the most used set next month, then SD becomes popularized the month after, followed by Work Up MixKen?

I'm not in the "there are only 2 blaziken checks" camp, but being forced to run Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn on every team is far from a solution.
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1)You don't even need Rugged helmet on Nat to get a crapload of residual on Blaze. and if you run Protect, which many Nats do already in order to abuse Leech Seed recovery, that Blaziken will be taking recoil no matter what it does.
2)Work Up Blaze isn't broken. our power just isn't high enough when you are splitting EVs, and any bulky water can beat you even after a turn of set up, as they can likely take a +1 HJK and KO back with their STAB option, as Blaze is very frail.
 
Lightning Tiger said:
First of all, no pokemon are banned, you just cant have them on your team with drizzle on it as well, theres nothing stoping people from using Golduck or Quilfish except for the fact that they arent good.

And taking the easy way out?, has it ever crossed youir mind that p[people just dont want to ban any of those pokemon?, huh?, and maybe feel taht drizzle is betterr gone than them?, tahts certainly how i feel, its not about taking an easy routes.

Id rather have Tornadus and Kingdra adn Thunderus in the game then drizzle.
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Aeroblacktyl said:
Why do people act like Swift Swimmers are banned...you know if you're facing so many Drizzle and Politoed teams...why don't you just make a Swift Swim team and if you face someone who tries Rain...they're absolutely fucked, cause seriously, no one tries to prepare for Kingdra and Kabtops anyways except for the ALWAYS-USED-REGARDLESS-OF-WEATHER Ferrorthorn.

It's not like the team is useless without the opponent using Drizzle either. If they don't use any weather at all, your 8 turn Rains will feel like infinite rain. And if they have Tyranitar and Ninetales, let's face it, when you skim that team preview, you're a lot more careless with your weather starters when you see that they don't have their own.
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To both of you I pose the question - in this meta with ss and sun inducers, have you seen a rain dance team get very high on the leaderboard? Personally I'm not aware of any, and this and 4th gen is what I base the assumption that non-drizzle rain is not a viable teamstyle on - and by extension the fact that like kingdra currently, numerous others will sink into disuse if drizzle is banned. I never meant to sound like they were banned, merely to point out that a drizzle ban has huge effects on the viability of many mons under the aforementioned assumption. If you know of a succesful RD team, by all means mention it and ill drop this debate.

In regards to other comments, I freely admitted that many of the possibilities for changes in the meta were speculation, so apologies if they caused offence. The reason I suggest a drizzle ban is partially due to my own beliefs, which if you don't agree with fair play, but also as a single ban is clearly simpler than several bans, whatever the situation. It is just my belief that in this situation this is not the course we should take.
 
blaziken with speed boost is not as big as everyone is making it. i mean for once blaziken is "playing with the big boys". like i said i think blaziken is becoming a big deal because all of these more "famous" players are having a hard time with it. i mean there are other pokemon such as chansey, blissey , and cleffairy that need discussing. blaziken is just at a point of usefulness where it can finally shine....... i mean without sb i here people saying blaziken sucks. its just like samurotts dream world ability people are complaining that it sucks. so i guess if sammurott got a great ability then it would overpowered. hell have u seen emboars dw ability lets discuss banning that.
 
TSI is an obvious noob that doesn't know about switching and uses crappy special attackers that can't beat Blissey or lol, Evo. stone Clefairy.
 
TheSuperItachi said:
i mean there are other pokemon such as chansey, blissey , and cleffairy that need discussing. hell have u seen emboars dw ability lets discuss banning that.
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Lawrence said:
..........huh?
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^ Yeah. Thats what I thought too...

Malvira said:
TSI is an obvious noob that doesn't know about switching and uses crappy special attackers that can't beat Blissey or lol, Evo. stone Clefairy.
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Pretty much what it looks like.




I feel like I do have to go back through the 67 pages and find exactly where it was that everyone went from "drizzle is so much better, this meta game isnt that bad" to "holy freaking crap drizzle is powerful lets ban it and sun as well!"

Although I know that Blaziken and Baton Pass Shell Smash started getting hype and we all came to realize the power behind those strategies as well.
 
RaRaRabbit said:
I feel like I do have to go back through the 67 pages and find exactly where it was that everyone went from "drizzle is so much better, this meta game isnt that bad" to "holy freaking crap drizzle is powerful lets ban it and sun as well!"
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I've been following this thread this whole time and I'm just as surprised. I don't think the change happened here.
 
masterful said:
1)You don't even need Rugged helmet on Nat to get a crapload of residual on Blaze. and if you run Protect, which many Nats do already in order to abuse Leech Seed recovery, that Blaziken will be taking recoil no matter what it does.
2)Work Up Blaze isn't broken. our power just isn't high enough when you are splitting EVs, and any bulky water can beat you even after a turn of set up, as they can likely take a +1 HJK and KO back with their STAB option, as Blaze is very frail.
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He was specifically suggesting rocky helmet.

WorkUp Mixken is actually very good this meta. It can't muscle past bulky waters, but they are less prevalent now and being able to KO the top pokemon without recoil is great. Im not saying its broken but it is good.
 
Benlisted said:
To both of you I pose the question - in this meta with ss and sun inducers, have you seen a rain dance team get very high on the leaderboard? Personally I'm not aware of any, and this and 4th gen is what I base the assumption that non-drizzle rain is not a viable teamstyle on - and by extension the fact that like kingdra currently, numerous others will sink into disuse if drizzle is banned. I never meant to sound like they were banned, merely to point out that a drizzle ban has huge effects on the viability of many mons under the aforementioned assumption. If you know of a succesful RD team, by all means mention it and ill drop this debate.

In regards to other comments, I freely admitted that many of the possibilities for changes in the meta were speculation, so apologies if they caused offence. The reason I suggest a drizzle ban is partially due to my own beliefs, which if you don't agree with fair play, but also as a single ban is clearly simpler than several bans, whatever the situation. It is just my belief that in this situation this is not the course we should take.
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Yeah I hit #3 with a Drizzle spam team and took another alt to #5 with a Sunny Day team.

I also happened to get far in Frontier last time with a RD team in DP that was nearly mono water.
 
no im actually quite adept with shutting down blissey and other special walls. and i can use good walls like milotic so i know what im talking about. its people who complain about speed boost blaziken , who are afraid of a little change in the metagame, and if your so shaken up about blazikens change then u shouldnt even bother playing in 5th gen because blaziken is the least of your worries
 
TheSuperItachi said:
good walls like milotic
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Not sure if troll

Anyways, Blaziken really isn't that great. Mixken is the only set that is really worth using. Even then, a bulky water isn't very hard to fit onto any team. Admittedly, with Drought, it can be a serious problem, but if Drought were to go (for whatever reason), Blaziken wouldn't be worth mentioning at all
 
Tyranitarphantom said:
Not sure if troll

Anyways, Blaziken really isn't that great. Mixken is the only set that is really worth using. Even then, a bulky water isn't very hard to fit onto any team. Admittedly, with Drought, it can be a serious problem, but if Drought were to go (for whatever reason), Blaziken wouldn't be worth mentioning at all
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Yeah a bulky water isn't at all hard to fit in a team. But how it's going to counter Blaziken is beyond me when said Bulky water is OHKOed by a +2 HJK and the only ones who aren't are Jellicent, Slowbro and Gyarados out of which only Slowbro is reliable, but falls to mixKen...

Admittedly Unaware Quagsire is decent though. But then he too is 2HKOed if Ken catches it on the switch...
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
Yeah I hit #3 with a Drizzle spam team and took another alt to #5 with a Sunny Day team.

I also happened to get far in Frontier last time with a RD team in DP that was nearly mono water.
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Sorry, it seems I phrased my question badly. By rain dance team I meant drizzle-less rain using the move rain dance, to prove the point that such a team is to my knowledge not a viable one in the current meta - and justify my assertion that a drizzle ban would kill many other things' usage.
 
Unaware quagsire is a great check, but he can't switch in. Blaziken isn't exactly walled by bulky waters and I'm not sure why people still bring up jellicient as a counter/check. The thing dies to +2 shadow claw + any hazard at all.

In any case, I've got a new opinion on drizzle. It's hard to say nice things about it but I'll reserve final judgement for the distant future. Edit: I'm just hating on it.
 
Anybody who is saying we "preserved the style of Damp Rock Rain" is lying.

Damp Rock Rain is dead. Not even dead. It has never been alive, except in Gen 4 UU.
 
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