np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

[Sir Azelf]

SD + Protect versions have horrible coverage.
Chandelure and Jellicent are two mons that would easily stop those versions.
People are exaggerating.

It doesn't really have horrible coverage (it doesn't need stone edge on sun teams as i will explain shortly) and no Jellicent doesn't wall it, nor are people exaggerating. Please do damage calcs in the Sun for a SD Flare Blitz vs Max/Max + Jellicent, that and your best move aka Surf vs it is nerfed so you are no where near going to beat Blaziken.

If you read my previous post you would see that a +1 (Intimidate) Flare Blitz in the sun KO's Salamence and Gyarados with SR up so you dont need coverage on sun teams regardless so are free to run Protect to laugh at scarfers. This is with all with Leftovers btw. Life Orb flat out OHKO's both.

And if you run Chandelure with Tyranitar on like every team in this metagame just waiting to Pursuit it, you have more guts than me.

 

[Kefka Palazzo™]

I do run Chandelure.
HP Fighting 2HKOs all T-tars with SR up.( Only Max HP/Max Sp.Def T-tar has a small chance to not get 2HKO'd if SR isn't up)

Sometimes I even give it a Charti Berry for the lulz and I get a +1 Speed boost from Nitro Charge and I get to kill T-tar.

I also get the benefit of entirely walling SD + Protect variants of Blaziken.

EDIT: Ignore what was previously occupying this space T_T
It was stupid.

 

[capefeather]

Wow, I didn't think that I'd get this much feedback. I didn't realize that so many people actually attempted sun in this metagame.

I also had an extremely haxy day today and laddered for two hours until some of it finally went in my favour. 7-12 is just terrible, and maybe one or two of those were based on being outplayed or counterteamed. However, I did see an interesting trend of Sub+CM Jirachi. People really like those Jirachi. I just wish the game would actually reward me outplaying them, though :P

 

[alphatron]

Sun is the popular underrated playstyle this meta.

Kefka, anything deoxys-a can't ohko is going to not only take a huge chunck out of its hp, but its going to kill it. While I do not believe Blaziken to be broken at all, wearing himself down after killing two pokemon and being weak to priority do not exactly make him easy to handle. Now if he had qwilfish's resistances to priority...

 

[JSND]

Well, tbh i just tried sun before and slapping breelom on it is just awesome.
Resistting both Ttar's STAB and most of hippo's usual moveset and can spore all inducer outside sun and getting free sub on many things.
Basicaly just awesome(too bad it dont get ice punch)

 

[TheValkyries]

anything he can't OHKO

There's your problem.

The things Blaziken can't kill on sight are VERY far and few between. And those that he can't, can be prepared for.

 

[Erazor]

Ok, so sun is ridiculously good. I've been running Ninetales, a core of Venusaur/Blaziken/Volcarona, and two supporting mons in Slowbro and Jirachi. Let me tell you something, Slowbro is amazingly good in this metagame. It doesn't give a rat's ass about anything physical and stops Blaziken. And I've not yet encountered a single mixKen.

Thundurus and Tornadus are pretty damn good too. But I don't see any suspects in this metagame.

 

[shrang]

Anyone else feel like they're playing Ubers when playing OU these days? I mean, the number of broken Pokemon are ridiculous, but they all seem to be holding each other together in a relatively balanced metagame at the moment.

 

[RotatingAtom]

Anyone else feel like they're playing Ubers when playing OU these days? I mean, the number of broken Pokemon are ridiculous, but they all seem to be holding each other together in a relatively balanced metagame at the moment.

Yes... One aspect of a "desireable Pokémon Metagame" is diversity. Right now,
I feel like I'm facing the same Pokémon over and over again. Kinda reminds
me of Gen 4 when Latias and Mence were around in OU.
Sure, all the "broken" Pokémon check each other and the metagame is
pseudo-balanced; but OU has exactly as many used Pokémon as Ubers
at the moment, which is sad, considering we have ~150 useable Pokémon
now in Gen 5.

I really don't have a problem with any Pokémon in OU at the moment
by itself - I have fought against and beaten countless Latios, Excadrill,
Ferrothorn, Tyranitar and all the others, but it gets boring now.

I think smogon went the wrong way at the start of the new Gen 5
metagame. We should've kept all the Gen 4 Ubers in Ubers along with
Reshiram and Zekrom, and afterwards we could've tested each individual
one in OU to see if it belongs there or not. But that won't happen. :/

 

[TLK]

Anyone else feel like they're playing Ubers when playing OU these days? I mean, the number of broken Pokemon are ridiculous, but they all seem to be holding each other together in a relatively balanced metagame at the moment.

I kind of see what you mean - I wouldn't call them broken (outside of two/three things) because like you said a few of them keep them in balance.

But it's not a fun metagame by any means. Especially when compared to the late days of the Gen 4 metagame.

 

[sxof]

Anyone else feel like they're playing Ubers when playing OU these days? I mean, the number of broken Pokemon are ridiculous, but they all seem to be holding each other together in a relatively balanced metagame at the moment.

I feel the same way. I deal with Latios, Tornelos, Landlos and Thundurus the same way i used to deal with Giratina-O, Latios, Mewtwo, Mixquaza or Dialga in Gen4 Ubers, sacrificing a poke to their too-much-for-OU-to-handle attacks and bringing in a Scarfer to revenge-kill, or Wobbuffet to CounterCoat. I was just thinking of it the other day, when i was playing Gen4 Ubers and sacrificed my Rayquaza to Latios DM, just to Mirror Coat it with Wobb, which was exactly what i am doing in Gen5 OU to deal with him. The unnatural rise in Wish CM Rachi is mainly due to Latios ripping the BW OU tier to shreds, similar to how Latias was preffered over Latios in DPPt Ubers only because he could handle Kyogre better. Excadrill right now is just like Kingdra in last gen Ubers, completely devastating if you could keep the weather up, and SD Blaziken reminds me of DD Rayquaza, both benefitting immensely from Wobb support, while Azumarill and Slowbro are for Ken what Palkia and Lugia were for Ray. Lots of similarities indeed, and this makes me think BW OU is unbalanced.

 

[alphatron]

I never played ubers competitvely at all, so I cannot comment on that. From what I was told about competitive ubers in the past, it differed from OU in that one slip up could cost you the match whereas in OU, you could recover from lost momentum in a number of ways. Perhaps this is due to my lack of knowledge, but I'm just not seeing that.

I will admit that it isn't too much fun fighting the same thing over and over again. Then again, that may be due to the fact that smogon's server usually has around 40-60 people on it most of the time and not all of them are battling.

 

[JSND]

Not really

UBERS IS very fompletely balanced

OU sometime is not. Handling Kyogre and Groudon and Arceus in Ubers seems easier than taking the Mother Fucking Completely doing illogical damage Close Combat from a freaking Terakion and taking the Earthquake from Landros which does damage that blew logic out of the crap.
OU is worse.

I mean at least in Ubers i have arceus for effin sake !!!!
In OU i must use them to match them !!! Thats was more brutal tbh.

 

[Benlisted]

I kinda get what people mean in that it's somewhat reminiscent of Ubers. However I'd have to agree that it is balanced at present, which is definitely good, and that the power levels are somewhat less than those in Ubers from my experiences of it.

Personally I quite enjoy the current meta and don't wish to see it change too much.

 

[Thorhammer]

I kinda get what people mean in that it's somewhat reminiscent of Ubers. However I'd have to agree that it is balanced at present, which is definitely good, and that the power levels are somewhat less than those in Ubers from my experiences of it.

Personally I quite enjoy the current meta and don't wish to see it change too much.

I agree. While some Pokemon and strategies are particularly effective, the current OU remains the most diverse of any generation so far, which goes to show that this is an excellent metagame.

 

[Meru]

I agree. While some Pokemon and strategies are particularly effective, the current OU remains the most diverse of any generation so far, which goes to show that this is an excellent metagame.

Since when does diversity indicate an amazing metagame? This metagame is just so unrelentingly punishing towards stall. And not only stall, but teams that aren't weather-based in general seem to have a tough time.

 

[AlphaSpade]

Just throwing this out there. Why would people ban Sand Veil period when the only abuser of it is Garchomp? I find it pointless to potentially nerf a lot of move pools (or at this stage of release, ban some pokes that are FAR from broken) just because people whine their Surfs and EQs have a 1/5 chance of resulting in getting swept. As for Snow Cloak, the only pokemon that commonly tries to abuse it is Froslass, who is nowhere near as deadly as Garchomp.

If you don't like missing and getting boned by Garchomp, then just ban Garchomp. Don't make everything complicated for no reason. >_>

 

[badabing]

Just throwing this out there. Why would people ban Sand Veil period when the only abuser of it is Garchomp? I find it pointless to potentially nerf a lot of move pools (or at this stage of release, ban some pokes that are FAR from broken) just because people whine their Surfs and EQs have a 1/5 chance of resulting in getting swept. As for Snow Cloak, the only pokemon that commonly tries to abuse it is Froslass, who is nowhere near as deadly as Garchomp.

If you don't like missing and getting boned by Garchomp, then just ban Garchomp. Don't make everything complicated for no reason. >_>

Tbh I think Chomp should be banned until Rough Skin is confirmed. Considering sand is so prevalent, it's ability will almost always be activated and you'd be surprised how significant that 1/5 chance can be, especially when it handicaps moves that should otherwise have perfect accuracy. That extra bit of hax in the hands of such a capable offensive threat is very gamebreaking with the potential to destabilize any meta. Evasion clause, maximizing hax disrupts competitive play, yadda yadda...

 

[Thorhammer]

Just throwing this out there. Why would people ban Sand Veil period when the only abuser of it is Garchomp? I find it pointless to potentially nerf a lot of move pools (or at this stage of release, ban some pokes that are FAR from broken) just because people whine their Surfs and EQs have a 1/5 chance of resulting in getting swept. As for Snow Cloak, the only pokemon that commonly tries to abuse it is Froslass, who is nowhere near as deadly as Garchomp.

If you don't like missing and getting boned by Garchomp, then just ban Garchomp. Don't make everything complicated for no reason. >_>

The issues with Sand Veil are not worth banning Garchomp entirely. However, they are worth a situational ban. And again, the only other Pokemon whose movepools would be affected are Sandslash and Cacturne. Pokemon such as Gliscor have other abilities they can use from Gen 4.

 

[masterful]

The issues with Sand Veil are not worth banning Garchomp entirely. However, they are worth a situational ban. And again, the only other Pokemon whose movepools would be affected are Sandslash and Cacturne. Pokemon such as Gliscor have other abilities they can use from Gen 4.

But there is so little need, as the hax is minimal and that would mean useless deviation from the cartridges.

 

[Blackdragonking]

I think smogon went the wrong way at the start of the new Gen 5 metagame. We should've kept all the Gen 4 Ubers in Ubers along with Reshiram and Zekrom, and afterwards we could've tested each individual one in OU to see if it belongs there or not. But that won't happen. :/

I sorta agree with this. Letting Gen 4 Ubers back into OU play when the generational shift came did not strike me as a fantastic idea for getting a good impression of what belonged in OU and what didn't.

Yes, Gen V has brought a lot of additional power to non-uber pokemon that means OU probably would have stepped up a notch, but I'm not sure it was such a good idea to let the Ubers come down and mingle with the commoners right away; it creates some thorny questions, such as is OU so crazy powerful because of the Gen V power creep, or because we considered the power creep sufficient justification to let Salamence, Garchomp, Lati@s, and Mew chill out in OU? Even pokemon with very solid offensive stats like Haxorus are never going to compete with the likes of Lati@s or Garchomp for a dragon slot, and so it seems sort of likely that pokemon that would have been very solid OU pokemon are going to either be UU or rot in BL forever because they're outclassed by pokemon that got banned last Gen.

I mean, we still let Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D run around in OU, but given that Deoxys's whole "thing" was to be superlative in a particular role based on form, doesn't that force other things aiming to be speedy or tanky down in rankings simply because Deoxys EXISTS?

I'm not a super-competitor, and I'm probably going to be playing UU when the tiers stabilize, but I just thought I'd express my agreement; OU's becoming a kinda scary place these days.

 

[alexwolf]

Tbh I think Chomp should be banned until Rough Skin is confirmed. Considering sand is so prevalent, it's ability will almost always be activated and you'd be surprised how significant that 1/5 chance can be, especially when it handicaps moves that should otherwise have perfect accuracy. That extra bit of hax in the hands of such a capable offensive threat is very gamebreaking with the potential to destabilize any meta. Evasion clause, maximizing hax disrupts competitive play, yadda yadda...

i agree!garchomp is a very threatening sweeper even without sand veil...the extra hax is completely unecassary...

 

[Thorhammer]

But there is so little need, as the hax is minimal and that would mean useless deviation from the cartridges.

20% Evasion is far from minimal. On a Pokemon with the capability to win the match with a single free turn, it's huge.

And no, it's not deviation from the cartridge. Banning Sand Veil + Sand Stream is completely enforceable on the cartridge.

 

[StarmanXL]

I dunno, personally I find this metagame far more fun than I did Gen 4 OU (although I admit I only played that up to Latias getting banned so I don't know much about the post Mence metagame). Yeah there's a lot of stuff to deal with but I feel like so many more pokemon are viable and it seems like you can get away with more strategies than you could in Gen 4 (which to me seemed like you could only use like maybe 20 different pokemon and maybe only 3 different kinds of teams). 'Course I probably have no idea what I'm talking about so whatever. Not like I'll ever make reqs to actually vote on anything.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

Id be find if we keep things the way they are now for the rest of the generation.