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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Dude, it's a 4x super effective attack. -.-

Hmm. Tell me what's setting up on Dragonite? EQ and E-speed 2KO most stuff that outspeeds it like Thundurus and Latios.

Jellicent isn't coming in on excadrill. ;)
 
MetaGross66 said:
It's actually preferable that Tyranitar outspeeds you (but most don't ;]) since Multiscale cushions Stone Edge and you can get the KO with Brick Break or EQ+E-speed. Gliscor outspeeds you and then is doing what? Ice Fang is doing 65% average I believe and that is without MS. IMO, that's just pitiful. Both of them aren't beating Deo-D anyway, so idk about that point. Outspeeding things doesn't matter with MS. It's actually preferred that you are slow enough to take the first hit and KO back after. Dragonite does that fine.

btw, any opinions on scarf kyurem? My last few posts were totally ignored. XD
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HUH?! So you're telling me it's better to be slower than Tyranitar so you can take an x% amount of damage via multiscale, than to just take 16% total damage (sandstorm+life orb) if you were faster and OHKO'd it with Brick Break off the bat?

Also due to BW's preview, the starter isn't always guaranteed, which means you will end up with horrible match up's such as Dragonite vs Haxorous. Some people like to spam the Outrage right away, some people wait. This means there's no such thing as horrible excuses as "it should be facing those things" while trying to cover up your faulty logic.

LO X-Speed only 2HKO's Latios if you're able to hit at the very least average on both hits.
 
I'm saying it's okay to be slower because scarftar is probably the only othe variant that is outspeedig you and Salamence loses to that.

You're right about the haxorus matchup, but it's kinda obvious they'll lead with haxorus if they have one and your Dragonite is first on the line up. Besides, what other bad match up is there other than maybe specs Latios and icicle spear Mamo, but who leads with those? most leads I see are Politoed, ttar, Deoxys-s, and rotom.

Edit: Salamence doesn't necessarily lose but it doesn't win either. It gets Koed after ss and LO damage cuz intimidate lets it live. Dragonite wins the matchup and can do some damage on the second poke with e-speed.
 
Since we're still talking about Dragonite, which set do you people find more effective? Bulky DD with Leftovers or Offensive DD with Lum Berry. imo, the Offensive DD with Lum has served me much better than the other version, being able to set up pretty easily on pokemon such as Jellicent and Jirachi, and do mass damage with Outrage / coverage moves.
 
Really depends on what you need / want. They both offer a different thing and both are dangerous under certain circumstances.
 
Bulky DD is awesome, Lum is annoying but, even when it absorbs a will-o-wisp, is still a PLEASANT surprise.
 
I prefer CB Nite tbh and find it to be the most effective, CB ES is really useful for picking off weakened things. Bulky DD always seems to run into something that stops it easily for me or just cant do enough damage, even with Spin support lol. :\
 
The the 40 Atk dragon claw set is only good for cleaning. Even with 2 boosts it can't OHKO Tyranitar and Celebi. The offensive DD and mix sets are better for immediate power but obviously don't last as long. My favorite set is the hurricane / thunder/ extremespeed one with life orb (1!!!!!) but it needs rain up to be effective. But if rain is up it can take down quite alot of the other team. EDIT: CB nite is also really good for immediate power but I generally prefer life orb and switching attacks.
 
Wouldn't Hydro Pump provide you better coverage? I think it would remove Steels, such as Jirachi and Heatran, much easier than Thunder, and it would also dent Tyranitar. Thunder may be better for Water Types, but those don't wall you as hard as Steel Types imo. Thunder does provide with the 30% paralysis, though.
 
TheMasterOfOz said:
Since we're still talking about Dragonite, which set do you people find more effective? Bulky DD with Leftovers or Offensive DD with Lum Berry. imo, the Offensive DD with Lum has served me much better than the other version, being able to set up pretty easily on pokemon such as Jellicent and Jirachi, and do mass damage with Outrage / coverage moves.
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Leftovers is preferable on Sand teams / slower bulky teams. Lum should be used on almost every team type.
 
Pocket said:
Wouldn't Hydro Pump provide you better coverage? I think it would remove Steels, such as Jirachi and Heatran, much easier than Thunder, and it would also dent Tyranitar. Thunder may be better for Water Types, but those don't wall you as hard as Steel Types imo. Thunder does provide with the 30% paralysis, though.
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Assuming you mean Surf (Dragonite can't learn Hydro Pump). You're right though, Surf + Hurricane is probably better. STAB Hurricane can destroy pokemon such as Slowbro anyway, and Surf wrecks pokemon like Skarmory.
 
tehy said:
Unless it's a gengar or other fast ghost.
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Sub disable gets it's subs broken with -2 fire blast and Dragonite isn't even 2KOed by Shadow ball which is doing 40.9% - 48.3%.

Dragonite needs all the attack it can get. IMO, it just isn't hitting that hard with 40 attack evs. Even at +2. Is there a better spread for it?
 
What are you talking about, sub disable? It'll just kill you.
And that's a definite 2hitko with life orb.
 
Assuming you mean Surf (Dragonite can't learn Hydro Pump). You're right though, Surf + Hurricane is probably better. STAB Hurricane can destroy pokemon such as Slowbro anyway, and Surf wrecks pokemon like Skarmory.
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Well the full set I use is Hurricane / Thunder / Aqua Tail / Extremespeed, so yea you both are pretty much right. This lets it 2HKO Chansey in the rain and also deal like 75% to Tyranitar trying to change the weather.
 
underrated: shell smash goreybyss sweeper set, lum berry max special attack and speed, surf, ice beam, hp grass it literally just rapes teams, the same with cloyster with shell smash, Shell smash should be banned it is just too powerful for one move.
 
I hate smash passing so much, it always screws me over x.x And yeah I've watched that Gorebyss in action, it's really good in rain. Surf can do a ton of damage, even to something like Blissey. And watching Quagsires get owned is just funny.
 
Razza said:
underrated: shell smash goreybyss sweeper set, lum berry max special attack and speed, surf, ice beam, hp grass it literally just rapes teams, the same with cloyster with shell smash, Shell smash should be banned it is just too powerful for one move.
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Since Clamperl was released in DW, Gorebyss have Hydratation, so, in the rain, he don't needs Lum Berry, the item slot can be used for a more offensive approach using Life Orb or for defensive using Leftovers/White Herb.
 
TheMasterOfOz]Assuming you mean Surf (Dragonite can't learn Hydro Pump). You're right though said:
Well the full set I use is Hurricane / Thunder / Aqua Tail / Extremespeed, so yea you both are pretty much right. This lets it 2HKO Chansey in the rain and also deal like 75% to Tyranitar trying to change the weather.
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Right, I remember now. There's almost no reason not to have Waterfall > Aqua Tail, though, and I think not having Outrage on a wall breaker Dragonite is some lost potential (but without Thunder, Skarmory would be a bitch).
 
Outrage does more to Ttar (160 BP) than Waterfall and an equal amount to Aqua Tail (180 BP), even more to Chansey, so I don't see much of a reason to use those over Outrage.
 
Waterfall misses out on the 2HKO on Chansey I think (Aqua tails does 46% min so I doubt it will 2HKO). Outrage is more powerful, I didn't really think of using it. The only things is that you lose coverage on Heatran and can get revenged by stuff without them taking an espeed.
 
tehy said:
What are you talking about, sub disable? It'll just kill you.
And that's a definite 2hitko with life orb.
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What are you talking about? XD What sub disable gengar runs life orb? Sandstorm is so common it pretty much needs lefties. Also, the gengar is switching in on you after a kill so your point of it 2KOing is invalid. Dragonite 2KOs it as well with -2 and a -4 Draco Meteor. >.>

Thing is, if Dragonite already got the kill and Gengar is switching in after, Dragonite already did its job by getting a kill and preventing Gengar from setting up a Sub on it by saccing itself (or you can just switch in something like scizor and set up. -.-).

Razza said:
underrated: shell smash goreybyss sweeper set, lum berry max special attack and speed, surf, ice beam, hp grass it literally just rapes teams, the same with cloyster with shell smash, Shell smash should be banned it is just too powerful for one move.
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Haha, Razza, I was just messing around on the ladder with that a few weeks ago. It was an offensive smash pass gorebyss with hydration in the rain. Passing to hurricane mixnite was like autogg. lol
 
Cloyster is amazing; you can easily beat rain with it if you can set up a Shell Smash because everything on a rain team is OHKOed by its moves. It also kills sand pretty well (you OHKO Excadrill unboosted iirc while it fails to OHKO) and is an amazing check to Dragonite as well.
 
@metagross66: what kind of mixnite set would you be running there? hurricane/outrage/surf/roost 252 atk 252 satk 4 spe @leftovers?

@ssbbm: pray tell, how are you getting through ferrothorn? scizor? politoed? when some of the most common threats take pitiful damage from all your attacks, how are you sweeping them (unless they let you get up to +6, but even then youre still going to kill yourself from life orb recoil before you finish off quagsire)?
 
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