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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

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Hello everyone! Long time no see :o
If you didn't already know, I decided to take a break from pokemon a while back.
Still on that break, especially since I just got Final Fantasy Anthology.

Anyway, I'd still like to know how the metagame is doing and if there are any new strategies, etc.
 
Eggbert said:
the real Excadrill, the LO version.
Click to expand...

Amen Eggbert, Amen. Whoever uses anything but Adamant LO should seriously reconsider their lives.

Well at the beginning of the round I believed Thundurus to be broken (in the rain, anyway) and Excadrill to be laughable (I don't think I've ever heard of anyone sweeping with Exca since like round 2), but I haven't played since the server went down last month, so I haven't the faintest idea of what's going on at the moment. Can anyone fill me in on any particular changes since the server went back up?
 
I honestly don't have a problem with Thundurus staying OU. At the beginning of the round, I thought it should immediately be banned. After laddering for a couple of days and achieving voting reqs, I realize that is not that broken after all. As Pocket mentioned, being weak to SR and having common pokemon such as CB Dragonite destroy it with priority definitely doesn't help it's cause for going uber. Lum Berry / Leftovers sets are easily taken on by the likes of Quagsire and Gastrodon. The Life Orb set just dies too quickly, especially with sandstorm up. Lum Berry Thundurus used to be broken because no one expected, and everyone switched in their Jirachis, only to be staring down a +4 Thundurus when it's all said and done. Also, common scarfers such as Rotom-W can easily switch in on an HP Ice, while common pokemon such as Excadrill just troll Thundurus completely.

No suspects is fine with me.
 
I have killed many Gastrodon in my laddering career. If that's the best you can do for Thundurus, then you're probably going to get swept, since Life Orb variants can +2 Focus Blast into HP Ice for an easy 2HKO. Lum variants have to get two Focus Blasts in, which is easier said than done, but it doesn't make Gastrodon any better a counter.

And Quagsire is still not being used. Fancy that.

Judging from some of my experiences against Thundurus users, I can earnestly see why some people do not find it a big deal. People seem to really enjoy leaving it in on my naturally slower and obviously scarfed Hydregion/Politoed/whatever. You can switch out of that, you know. Once he's back in, guess what's not coming in safely. Yes, that Rotom-W that gets OHKOed by Thunder after rocks. I've used Mamoswine and Scarf Landorus to switch in on Thunder, Starmie to switch in on Focus Blast, etc. These are not reliable techniques to beat Thundurus. In fact, most of my "sweeping" from Thundurus gets done just throwing around attacks. Like that clever Excadrill switch-in players like Oz don't think I see coming. Suboptimal strategy shouldn't give overpowered Pokemon a free ticket into OU.
 
If it's a life orber, how much is an ice beam doing back though?

The basic deal with thundurus is that it can't actually kill all six of your pokemon at once, but inbounding a scarfer or exca into it isn't exactly easy. It is really just a powerful hole puncher that forces you to revenge it and switches out.

Sj, challenge me with a good thundy team, i'd like to see that though.
 
Yea, Gastrodon alone is not a solid counter to Thundurus, and switching in Scarfers is also not a reliable solution alone. However, combine the two, and it could check Thundurus reliably imo. Gastrodon + Landorus / Starmie, for instance sounds like a mean combo. The only thing breaking through Gastrodon is a +2 Focus Blast. Thundurus can attempt to Focus Blast + HP Ice while eating an Ice Beam, but Landorus / Starmie might switch into that Focus Blast, forcing Thundurus out. It wont be easy bringing back Thundurus.

Another example would be a specially defensive Celebi + Scarftar. Celebi can survive an +2 LO HP Ice and threaten to T-Wave it. Thundurus can HP Ice only for Scarftar to come in and either Pursuit / Rock Slide it.

There is also Blissey, Chansey, and Quagsire, too.
 
OK, yea, don't switch Starmie into +2 LO Focus Blasts :X

Or...

Thundurus Nasty Plots / Gastrodon switches in
Thundurus Focus Blasts / Gastrodon Ice Beams
Thundurus HP Ice / Starmie switches in

That would leave Thundurus with 28% health. Gastrodon is still around to take another hit, and Starmie is still around to revenge kill Thundurus.

I guess Celebi / Scarftar is a better example :/
 
ScarfHaxorus is actually a pretty good switch into Thundurus since nobody assumes the scarf, and HP Ice doesn't OHKO iirc
 
Yeah, I'd be fine to see Thundurus in OU. Pokemon such as Specially Defensive Rachi, Offensive DDNite (with prediction), Scarftar, ScarfHax, Specially Defensive Gastrodon, Specially Defensive Quagsire, Specially Defensive Celebi, Chansey and Blissey to some extent, Deoxys S, and Eviolite Porygon2 can all take on Thundurus quite handily.
 
Personally I think Haxorus is better with Dragon dance. It's defiantly a preference and how it fits into your team thing, but DD set is my most successful. Banded is too slow and revenge killed easily, and scarf doesnt hit hard enough and just screams for ferrothorn/skarmory to switch in. DD lets you keep choice which is just fantastic, and forces switches easily that you can get that 1 dd off, then he's got band and scarf with move choice.
 
Cold Fusion said:
Bring it in on something that can't threaten it.


I hate to change the subject, but... Has anyone actually had success with Hail?
Click to expand...

lol, I'm about to get reqs again with it. scarf Kyurem just tears apart everything with Spikes support and Abomasnow walls that new water pulse and thunder CM jirachi set everyone and their mother is using. Why is Kyurem not OU? I'll even go as far as to compare its late game sweeping prowess to that of Trick Room Reuniclus's.
 
I've never tried hail. It seems hard to use but it seems very effective when it's used correctly, especially with all the drag + mag teams running around. I'll have to try that next round.
 
Probably a little late to post this, but i had an interesting idea for a good counter to thundurus-Wish plus protect plus HP ice plus t-bolt jolteon. Since jolt can't take repeated switchins, wish plus protect remedies that, and lets it sort of support the team, although its wishes are a little...weak...
Alternatively, replace Hp ice with heal bell, since stab t-bolt has more base power, and a fast heal bell can help you out sometimes.
 
On my rain team, I run lanturn to handle him. I only invest in 40 hp evs too. Not sure if I can tank 2 LO focus blasts though. 212 sp. def.

In the meantime, sub, DD, roost, dragon claw, bulky multiscale nite is putting me out on the streets and out of a job. Ever since he struck that business deal with dual screen espeon...
 
I just run Celebi to stop Thundurus. Life Orb isn't as common nowadays, and I can T-Wave Lum versions twice and basically render Thundurus useless. Especially since I run CB Dragonite on some of my teams, with SR support, it's not hard to take Thundurus down for me.
 
Wow, Dragonite is so annoying. It can run so many different sets you can only try and guess what it's running. Bulky DD needs to be stopped very early, otherwise it becomes a massive pain when it sets up. There have been so many times where I'm scared as fuck about a bulky Dragonite setting up that I send in my counter, only to be nuked by CB Outrage or Draco Meteor or something stupid like that.

Damn Dragonite.
 
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