Well, the point is that a number of folks with good reasoning got it pulled into being a suspect. If you want it to not be BL, go get the rating needed and partake in the suspect test.
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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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Ok, I agree with most of what you said, but this struck me. With Brave Bird, Close Combat, and Return, Staraptor hits everything but Rotom (correct me if I'm wrong) with either STAB or SE damage. That's damn good coverage, especially since all of the attacks have more than 100 base power.
This probably isn't helpful to anyone, but since we are talking about Raikou, I found out that scarf Espeon beats it 1v1 (at least a lefties CM one), with modest Psychic doing over 50%. Scarf Espeon can actually be really cool in some situations, like outspeeding 1DD Feralgator and Altaria, and swift swimmers who don't have 240 speed.
Shuca Berry Raikou with Thunderbolt / HP Fire / Shadow Ball seems pretty brutal, as the most popular resists are all either weak to HP Fire or Shadow Ball or have terrible Special Defense.
I don't understand how it destroys a significant portion when it fails to hit hard. It doesn't even have 2 counters it actually has plenty more. Like I said, Steelix isn't the only one that stops it there are still the likes of Chansey, Clefable that stops it from destroying everything.
Yes but you have to understand the weak move pool Raikou has that's preventing him to destroy a significant portion of the metagame. It takes little prediction Thunderbolt and Hidden Power is it's only coverage. Ice will 2-3HKO Steelix depending on EV spread and will fail to "destroy the significant portion of the metagame" when it fails to destroys its counter even with Shuca Berry. Shuca Berry might not OHKO it, but HP [Ice] also fails to OHKO it. If you prefer ground it looses coverage, what don't you understand about that? With loss of coverage just to eliminate the counter it is prevented to "eliminate the significant portion of the metagame" because with Thunderbolt / Hp [Ground], Grass types will ruin it now and you loose coverage. Plus I think no UU pokemon should go to BL when it doesn't stand a chance to beat Chansey or Clefable. Mismagius is the only capable one to beat it, I'll give it that.
It doesn't matter that a special attacker can't beat Chansey or Clefable. Kyogre, an Uber special attacker, gets walled by Blissey, but that does not mean Kyogre's OU.
Raikou really doesn't stand a chance, it needs 4 Calm Minds to give Chansey a 2HKO and 3-4 Calm Minds to give Clefable a 2HKO which is difficult to do when your trying to set up a sub while constantly get it broken by seismic toss. Not to mention the fact these normal types have access to softboiled so good luck.
Kyogre "could" actually beat it's counters, its what makes him uber. Specs Spout on Blissey switch in will always 2HKO it from my experience. The impact it brings with infinite rain dance, is actually a mix between support characteristics of an uber and sweeping characteristic of an uber
I'm not really here to discuss the other UU. Also I'm not here to post hate on Raikou, I just want it to stay UU to keep things in check like Milotic, Slowbro and all of the bulky waters. Not getting pass Chansey is one of my reasons, if you check the entire post you'll see why. Plus in my post I said UU going to BL, not OU going to Ubers. There are some OU's that could handle Blissey. The fact is these specia lwalls are far too common and it prevents quite alot of special attackers from "destroyng the significant portion of the metagame"
Note that switching in Chansey allows it to pick up a Calm Mind, maybe more.
Also note that although it is annoying to switch Raikou in and out again, it can be done, after they have sent in their pursuiter destroying your Chansey.
In other words, Chansey is usually pretty easy to get around. Because Chansey is used most commonly as a special wall that either wishes or throws status, it has a very small chance to escape a pursuiter.
Also note that although it is annoying to switch Raikou in and out again, it can be done, after they have sent in their pursuiter destroying your Chansey.
In other words, Chansey is usually pretty easy to get around. Because Chansey is used most commonly as a special wall that either wishes or throws status, it has a very small chance to escape a pursuiter.
Firstly, Raikou isn't the only pokemon that can keep bulky waters in check. Shaymin can do this too. Secondly, what is the difference between UUs going to BL and OUs going to Ubers? Thirdly, Raikou doesn't have to use Substitute and Calm Mind to be of any use. It can run a Choice Specs or Life Orb set just like any other special sweeper. Finally, of course the special walls are preventing the special attackers from running rampant. It's their job!
Actually, what I don't get is everyone flipping a shit over Gallade. I personally have never seen him and he's only like #10 in the usage stats. I think that Staraptor was much more of a threat than Gallade.
And it seems like everyone is trying to do Rain Dance teams as well >.>
And it seems like everyone is trying to do Rain Dance teams as well >.>
Agreeing that weather teams have gotten more popular with Abomasnow leaving. The good thing is that Crobat is gone as their lead. The Rain teams are pretty deadly, however, especially with Ludicolo. He is a real pain to eliminate as Flying or Bug offense is fairly rare. Shaymin takes a pretty hefty hit from Ice Beam as well before Air Slashing. Rain teams are pretty deadly at the moment, although a Ludicolo of your own can work decently as a counter for Rain teams (not Kabutops or Qwilfish however).
I find that coordinated weather is the most effective type of offense to run in UU. However, Clefable can seriously mess them up, as it's the rare Rain team running Toxicroak, and almost no Sun teams sport a fighting-type. Rain tends to be the more dangerous of the two, however, since they have less counters readily available to Omastar/Ludicolo.
Also referring to Gallade...seriously, I've never seen the bugger myself except once or twice to be shredded while I had sun up, and I don't see what the big deal is, since Mismagius and Rotom can come in on CC and WoW him. Staraptor, on the other hand, is a huge pain in the ass with a massive attack stat and ridiculously powerful moves. He can simply setup sub while the enemy switches to an appropriate counter and proceed to hit it with something ridiculous for a 2HKO.
Also referring to Gallade...seriously, I've never seen the bugger myself except once or twice to be shredded while I had sun up, and I don't see what the big deal is, since Mismagius and Rotom can come in on CC and WoW him. Staraptor, on the other hand, is a huge pain in the ass with a massive attack stat and ridiculously powerful moves. He can simply setup sub while the enemy switches to an appropriate counter and proceed to hit it with something ridiculous for a 2HKO.
He's also neutral to Grass instead of being Weak to it.
On the topic of Gallade:
I thought Gallade was immensely powerful. He can OHKO even a pretty bulky MissyM with +2 Shadow Sneak, and do good damage to Rotom. +2 Stone Edge 2HKO's Spiritomb, and +2 Close Combat was one of the most powerful attacks available to a UU pokemon. Shadow Sneak also served the job of KO'ing faster frailer revengers. While Staraptor was maybe the biggest physical threat in UU, Gallade definitely deserved Suspect status.
EDIT: Huh, Qwilfish. Good idea KD24, what set do you use? Is it just the standard Rain Sweeper set, or did you add some bulk?
I thought Gallade was immensely powerful. He can OHKO even a pretty bulky MissyM with +2 Shadow Sneak, and do good damage to Rotom. +2 Stone Edge 2HKO's Spiritomb, and +2 Close Combat was one of the most powerful attacks available to a UU pokemon. Shadow Sneak also served the job of KO'ing faster frailer revengers. While Staraptor was maybe the biggest physical threat in UU, Gallade definitely deserved Suspect status.
EDIT: Huh, Qwilfish. Good idea KD24, what set do you use? Is it just the standard Rain Sweeper set, or did you add some bulk?
However, I almost felt like people were treating him like Skymin. But if he really was that powerful, why was he only #10? That's my question. I almost felt that most of the people nominating him were only doing it on a Theorymon basis. Hell, if you allow Raikou to get +2 in SpA, he's going to be sweeping most teams anyway.
Well Staraptor was one of the absolute shut-down counters for Gallade, and Staraptor was on almost every team. That hurt Gallade usage a lot. With Staraptor leaving UU, maybe voters were afraid Gallade would be totally out of control and thus banned him. Maybe not perfectly fair, but is working out well nonetheless.
EDIT: It may not be how the tests were supposed to go, it's just what I believe happened.
EDIT: It may not be how the tests were supposed to go, it's just what I believe happened.
You can't ban stuff on basis of "if this gets banned, that's too strong."
That said, Usage stats also are not a good argument for "This pokemon is/isn't broken." (site: Wobb, Deo-E)
That said, Usage stats also are not a good argument for "This pokemon is/isn't broken." (site: Wobb, Deo-E)
Well, Gallade can still wreck havoc despite what usage statistics say. Only reason I don't use him any more is because he is a suspect and suspects tend to be banned/ permitted, pending on the situation of course. At least that is what is stopping me from using it, however, in other people's case it may be that Staraptor, Spiritomb, Ambipom and Crobat are fairly common. All of which are decent checks to him without having to specialize. Hopefully, he doesn't get the ban stick.
On a side note... I'm very frustrated that Shaymin didn't get the vote to suspect. Seeing that Crobat is likely to get bumped up to BL there is now potentially one less check to her, one less offensive check that is. Now that leaves Regice, Chansey, Articuno, Venasuar, Vileplume, Alteria, and Wormadam-S. Regice and Alteria are SR weak, Articuno is 4x SR Weak, Wormadam-S is a great poke but is hard to work with, and finally Chansey, Vileplume, and Vensaur won't enjoy thier Special Defense drop. Not to mention all of them are walls, which to me is kind of disappointing. Though when I checked damage calcs with articuno I was rather surprised. Based off 2 Seed Flares and the first giving the Defense drop... Calm 252Hp 96Sdef Articuno takes at most 86.2% from a 252SpA Modest SpecMin. 28.91% + 57.29% (defense drop) max damage.
On a side note... I'm very frustrated that Shaymin didn't get the vote to suspect. Seeing that Crobat is likely to get bumped up to BL there is now potentially one less check to her, one less offensive check that is. Now that leaves Regice, Chansey, Articuno, Venasuar, Vileplume, Alteria, and Wormadam-S. Regice and Alteria are SR weak, Articuno is 4x SR Weak, Wormadam-S is a great poke but is hard to work with, and finally Chansey, Vileplume, and Vensaur won't enjoy thier Special Defense drop. Not to mention all of them are walls, which to me is kind of disappointing. Though when I checked damage calcs with articuno I was rather surprised. Based off 2 Seed Flares and the first giving the Defense drop... Calm 252Hp 96Sdef Articuno takes at most 86.2% from a 252SpA Modest SpecMin. 28.91% + 57.29% (defense drop) max damage.
Crobat was definitely the best check to Shaymin capable of doing damage, but Grass is still a very bad offensive type. Having 2 semi-bulky Grass resists can stall Shaymin out of Seed Flare PP. At that point, Shaymin is all but useless as an offensive threat. Stalling 8 PP of a move that is resisted by 7 types isn't that difficult.
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