np: UU - Can't Touch This

[Class]

I think Adaptability is better for a Nasty Plot set with Tri-Attack.

The extent to which Cresselia has centralized the metagame thus far is stupid. Raikou and Porygon Z on every god damn team are not helping either(they do centralize it in a lesser and different way, seen sooo many CM Cresselia and Chansey and Umbreon lately it makes me sick.), but Cresselia is the main culprit. I've seen so many more defensive Pokemon to take advantage of Cresselia and those offensive pokemon trying to take advantage, a rise in steels, the ridiculous rise in Absol with his Night Slash for Cress and Sucker Punch for P-Z is just stupid, CM Cress is beyond annoying and extremely broken. Honestly, I don't even care if the tier is "balanced" (even though Cress obviously isn't), but on top of Cress and the annoyance of it, Raikou, Absol, P-Z, Froslass, and the increased amount of walls just makes a very poor metagame that isn't fun at all. I'm supporting Lemmiwinks on this one.

P.S. I'm not proposing any bans or anything other than Cress, in case anyone calls me out on my second to last sentence.

 

[jamashawalker]

For a Choice Scarf set, I was leaning towards Download, but accidentally using Adaptability and getting great results has made me reconsider. Download, theoretically, should probably be more useful since it effects all of Porygonz attacks, however if you are relying on Porygonz to sweep late game, maybe the realiability from Adaptability is better? What do you guys think?

For some funky ass reason i never really understood download lol....but after looking it up, the real question is that who does PZ switch into? a weakened poke that he can finish off or a revenge killing? I would defintely go with adaptability....PZ's other moves are just for support for Tri attack if it cant hit for neutral damage...the only real problem is ghost who are already KOed by dark pulse, except spiritomb, Rock/Steel, not too many will enjoy Hidden power fighting without being 2HKOed, except for registeel...I feel like i'm forgetting someone, but overall spamming tri attack is a better strategy than having an opportunity to switch in and not getting the download boost

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Specs Porygon-Z has amazing firepower though with Pursuit Tomb running almost on every team, you can't be reckless with it. I have found that using Porygon-Z as a lure is pretty effective - you can trick Chansey, Registeel, Spiritomb and friends a Scarf/Specs and let other Pokemon like CM Cress and CM Raikou sweep the opposition.

Something I began testing is CM + 3 attack Cress. Although the lack of recovery hurts, you are able of sweeping offensive teams quite easily, as you can be EVd to outspeed Jolly Venusaur as well as KOing Absol after +1 and SR with Signal Beam. Psychic/Signal Beam/HP Fire works rather well, although Toxic ruins it, so it's not such a good option vs stall at all.

 

[Skytt]

Someones already noted this before, but HP Ground is actually a better choice than HP Fighting. It hits Houndoom for the same amount of damage and you are no longer walled completely by Spiritomb. It also super effective against Drapion, as here is 252 SPA+ Cresselia with one Calm Mind under its belt against 0 HP / 0 SPD Drapion:

409 Atk vs 186 Def & 281 HP (70 Base Power): 222 - 262 (79.00% - 93.24%)
41% chance of OHKO'ing with SR in play. Garenteed KO with 2+

Same Cresselia set against 252 HP / 252 SPD Drapion: (With 2+)

546 Atk vs 271 Def & 344 HP (70 Base Power): 204 - 240 (59.30% - 69.77%)
100% 2HKO

Now, lets see this the other way around:

Sword Dance Drapion (aka set 1) switchs in on Cresselia as it Calm Minds.

If a) it Sword Dances as Cresselia uses HP Ground and manages to survive, it will i)try to OHKO Cresselia if it has Life Orb, (33% chance) but at the most (Factoring in Cresselia does minimum Damage, Drapions Life Orb Recoil and SR damage) have 2% health. or ii) If it has another item, fail to KO and be finished off by Cress.

If b) it uses Night Slash twice to try to KO Cresselia, it will most likely fail, as it has a 0.07% chance to 2HKO with Life Orb (With Cress holding Lefties).

252 Drapion vs 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia with and without Life Orb:

279 Atk vs 276 Def & 444 HP (70 Base Power): 200 - 236 (45.05% - 53.15%)
279 Atk vs 276 Def & 444 HP (70 Base Power): 152 - 182 (34.23% - 40.99%)

Same thing as above but with +2:

558 Atk vs 276 Def & 444 HP (70 Base Power): 396 - 468 (89.19% - 105.41%)
558 Atk vs 276 Def & 444 HP (70 Base Power): 306 - 360 (68.92% - 81.08%)

This. Thing. Is. Amazing.

Moral of Story: Run Drapion with Adamant

 

[franky]

If you guys thought Cresselia was troublesome, Pz is on the same boat and I'm actually leaning towards an early "exit" for Pz. If you thought Specs Yanmega was bad, Choice Specs Porygon-Z is twice as worst and I'm sure people can attest to its power. With Porygon-Z lacking the Stealth Rock weakness, Pz can actualy perform the hit-and-run trick better than Yanmega. A simple Tri-Attack / HyperBeam / Dark Pulse / ThunderboltlHp Fight set can dismantle a bulky team in a matter of turns. Tri-Attack spam then switch out. If absolutely needed, Hyper Beam will OHKO Cresselia, Uxie, Rhyperior, and any bulky poke at sight. Ghost-types are the true counters for the set, but once they are gone teams usually have a hard time dealing with it. Registeel is a cool check too, but it doesn't enjoy coming in on Hyper Beam or HP Fighting. Pz is not that frail since it doesn't take a shitload from non-super effective priority hits.

I'm gonna show some calcs just to display its power:

Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior - 119.4% - 140.7%
Hyper Beam vs. 252 Hp / 0 SpD Cresselia - 99.5% - 117.1%
Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie - 124.3% - 146.3%
Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 152 SpD Registeel - 53% - 62.6%
Hyper Beam vs. 0 Hp / 252 SpD Chansey - 59.9% - 70.8%

.. HB is used on tighter situations when you actually need to OHKO the aforementioned threads, and basically there is no safe switch in to it. To those who aren't 2HKOd, they can't retaliate back since Iron Head fails to OHKO and Chansey can only Thunder Wave and hope for paralysis. Registeel would need to sacrifice itself to kill Pz.

Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie - 66.7% - 78.5%
Tri Attack vs. 252 Hp / 0 SpD Cresselia - 53.2% - 62.6%
Tri Attack vs. 252 Hp / 156 SpD Registeel - 23.4% - 27.7%
Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Regirock - 29.9% - 35.4%

...Tri Attack being the primary move to remove offensive-based teams without having the drawback to wait a turn from Hyper Beam. As you can see nothing can really switch in without getting 2HKOd except for the last two and Chansey. With Chansey being the best check (Thunder Wave if you may), the Regis dont stand a chance since the standard set lacks a healing move to constantly heal off Pz's hit and run moves.

 

[Godsend]

I have honestly had some trouble with team making since these two dropped. My most successful team was stall with Cress. But even that hasn't been overwhelmingly successful.

 

[MagicMaster87]

HB is used on tighter situations when you actually need to OHKO the aforementioned threads, and basically there is no safe switch in to it. To those who aren't 2HKOd, they can't retaliate back since Iron Head fails to OHKO and Chansey can only Thunder Wave and hope for paralysis. Registeel would need to sacrifice itself to kill Pz.

What happened to Wish + Protect or Softboiled? I'm pretty sure every Chansey in existence runs one or the other, and because of Hyper Beam's recharge time, there's nothing you can do to stop it. Registeel can also T.Wave and Iron Head for possible paraflinch hax, although I'm not sure how common that is anymore. Regirock can do the same with Rock Slide, or it might possibly just kill you with Stone Edge (not sure how much Stone Edge would do to PZ).

 

[Heysup]

Someones already noted this before, but HP Ground is actually a better choice than HP Fighting. It hits Houndoom for the same amount of damage and you are no longer walled completely by Spiritomb. It also super effective against Drapion

I completely disagree. The "worst" Pokemon to give a free switch in for is Absol, imo. Houndoom is scary as well, but Absol is definitely harder to stop, due to almost 800 Atk, Sucker Punch, and Life Orb. Both HP Fighting and Ground give you essentially no chance against other Psychic-types, and you really need to be kidding about that Spiritomb thing. Signal Beam is the best option imo. It hits Spiritomb for 5 more BP with chance of confusion, allows you to beat OTHER Cresselia (and Psychics in general), and allows you to smack Absol for se damage.

If you guys thought Cresselia was troublesome, Pz is on the same boat and I'm actually leaning towards an early "exit" for Pz. If you thought Specs Yanmega was bad, Choice Specs Porygon-Z is twice as worst and I'm sure people can attest to its power. With Porygon-Z lacking the Stealth Rock weakness, Pz can actualy perform the hit-and-run trick better than Yanmega. A simple Tri-Attack / HyperBeam / Dark Pulse / ThunderboltlHp Fight set can dismantle a bulky team in a matter of turns. Tri-Attack spam then switch out. If absolutely needed, Hyper Beam will OHKO Cresselia, Uxie, Rhyperior, and any bulky poke at sight. Ghost-types are the true counters for the set, but once they are gone teams usually have a hard time dealing with it. Registeel is a cool check too, but it doesn't enjoy coming in on Hyper Beam or HP Fighting. Pz is not that frail since it doesn't take a shitload from non-super effective priority hits.

You are completely incorrect about the Yanmega comparison. Specs Yanmega not only had a 90 base power move (which probably evens out the attack difference?), it had Tinted Lens. Tinted Lens is the sole reason Yanmega was unstoppable. Nothing could safely switch into it. Nothing. Porygonz's big flaw here is its Tri Attack. Tri Attack gives so many Pokemon free attacks it's ridiculous.

Secondly, Hyper Beam...with set up Pokemon like Absol around? Doesn't sound too good to me.

*Sorry in advance if something doesn't make sense, I was practically asleep when I wrote this.

 

[Ich777ich]

I just want to input how I really feel about this before I go to bed. To me, Cresselia and Porygon-z dropping down to UU was a bad decision, especially Cresselia. I have done a lot of battle on the UU battle server, and Cress just never seems to go down unless i had setup previously. One of the reasons why UU is different than OU is because in UU there is no one wall for everything, however with Crsselia coming into UU the game has gotten so much harder to deal with. Some people might say Uxie is like that, but it isn't, because it lacks a reliable recovery move. Cresselia also has more HP so it will last longer than Uxie. In fact, most UU walls lack a reliable recovery move besides chansey and clefable, but clefable doesnt have the stats to take the most powerful of attacks, and chansey dies to a strong physical hit. Cresselia, however, isn't. Cresselia also becomes almost unstoppable after a CM or 2, and it has enough bulk to get that up, hence becoming a potent sweeper. Cresselia has just starting sucking all the fun out of UU for me, and I don't want to carry a random Absol on my team to stop it. Porygon-z isn't as bad, but it is still an incredibly powerful pokemon, and is able to perform the dream sets it couldn't pull of as well in OU, such as the Nasty Plot set or the Agility set. And it's scarf set is even scarier in UU, as an Adaptibility Tri Attack is going to do a lot of damage to anything that doesn't resist it or is immune to it. However I realize that before these two pokemon dropped to UU that there were more physical walls than special walls because of honchkrow and gallade, so people are gradually becoming more Special Defensive. But that doesnt lessen the fact that Porygon-z is still an overly powerful force in UU. So basicially, I think they should both be banished to BL.

 

[Smurf.]

Fast tracking both PZ and Cress out of UU is a must.

To emphasize how broken Cress is, twice now the opponent has congratulated me on being the first to merely defeat it, never mind the rest of their team.

 

[FlareBlitz]

I don't think we need to fast track PZ, but I agree that Cress really must go, like right now. Stall is having a field day due to that monster, and I'm really tired of clawing my way up the leaderboard when someone can stick a Cresselia and something to deal with Drapion/Absol (note the rise in Weezing usage) on a team and call it a day.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Yeah, I forgot to mention, but SD LO Absol is a complete beast against stall. You can easily get a SD up (without being Toxic'd/attacked if done right) and proceed to take down half of the opposing stall team. Megahorn really does wonders here, doing about 70%-85% damange to 252/252 Bold Cress after a SD while outspeeding. Stall will have to have at least 2 counters/checks to it nowadays.

 

[MagicMaster87]

Yeah, I forgot to mention, but SD LO Absol is a complete beast against stall. You can easily get a SD up (without being Toxic'd/attacked if done right) and proceed to take down half of the opposing stall team. Megahorn really does wonders here, doing about 70%-85% damange to 252/252 Bold Cress after a SD while outspeeding. Stall will have to have at least 2 counters/checks to it nowadays.

I don't know what calculator you used, but according to the Smogon Calc, a +2 Megahorn from Jolly LO Absol does a minimum of 96.8% to 252/252+ Cresselia. Adamant is a guaranteed OHKO. I'm not sure why you'd need Megahorn, though, when it gets Night Slash, which does a minimum of 93.2% when Adamant and 85.1% when Jolly buts makes up for it with the greatly increased critical hit rate due to Super Luck (I think it's 25%) AND has perfect accuracy. It gives you an extra slot to run Sucker Punch or Pursuit for added utility, or even Psycho Cut/Zen Headbutt to take out Weezing or Hitmontop.

 

[Smurf.]

I don't get the obsession with absol/drapion. Played right, Cress will knock you off no problem whatsoever, then proceed to heal off whatever damage you managed to do. In all honesty unless you can switch in with impunity, and can ohko 100% of the time without set-up, you're fucked. Simple as that. I'm hardly gonna sit idly by as you SD up. You're dead the second absol/drapion comes in.

 

[Force Majeure]

I find Drapion a better counter (if indeed we can call it that) to Cress than Absol because Absol is completely destroyed by HP Fighting.

 

[Yuggles]

Both of them get shut down completely by Thunder Wave, though, so I don't even see the point of using them to deal with Cress. Oh and there's also the possibility of Psycho Shift/Reflect/Trick, all of those moves would screw up Absol/Drapion quite badly.

I'm on the fence about P-Z, but Cress really needs to go.

 

[Mercury]

Both of them get shut down completely by Thunder Wave, though, so I don't even see the point of using them to deal with Cress. Oh and there's also the possibility of Psycho Shift/Reflect/Trick, all of those moves would screw up Absol/Drapion quite badly.

I'm on the fence about P-Z, but Cress really needs to go.

You mean move back to OU?

 

[Vrolok]

no one understands how pokes float in and out of OU...

Pokes only fall out of OU due to USAGE. They can only get back in OU due to USAGE. Pokes banned from UU go to BL. I dunno how more simple it can get.

 

[zarator]

You mean move back to OU?

He means probably move to BL

EDIT: Meh, beaten

 

[Skytt]

I completely disagree. The "worst" Pokemon to give a free switch in for is Absol, imo. Houndoom is scary as well, but Absol is definitely harder to stop, due to almost 800 Atk, Sucker Punch, and Life Orb. Both HP Fighting and Ground give you essentially no chance against other Psychic-types, and you really need to be kidding about that Spiritomb thing. Signal Beam is the best option imo. It hits Spiritomb for 5 more BP with chance of confusion, allows you to beat OTHER Cresselia (and Psychics in general), and allows you to smack Absol for se damage.

You should never stay in against Absol anyway, usless you under Reflect that is. When Absols switchs in, Cress will most likely have used Calm Mind first turn anyway, so its really a free switch in either way.

If you use Signal Beam over HP Fighting/Ground, your completely open to Steel types, especially Registeel who can easily cripple you with Thunder Wave or even worse, Toxic (Unless you run Rest > Moonlight, which could give the opponent a free switch in or Regi-S two extra turns to Curse up).

I wasn't saying that you could stay in on Spiritomb if you run HP Ground instead, I was only saying that now not completely walled by Spiritomb. Staying in on a Spiritomb is complete suicide IMO, especially if there running either Toxic, Taunt or Pain Split (Most likely there using at least 1 or 2).

The main plus of using HP Ground that I was originally talking about was against Drapion, which it seems that a majority of people are using over Absol because of its higher defenses, higher speed and its ability to use Rest, Sleep Talk and Whirlwind as well as still having access to Sword Dance and Taunt.

 

[M BLADE]

Just use Umbreon, guys. Even hp Fighting isn't enough to beat the Cursebreon, and Payback will do a good amount of damage to Cresselia. You can even get 6 Curses against a dumb player who lets Cresselia in, and start sweeping.

You can use Moonlight to recover your health(or Wish... but Wish is sometimes unreliable without Protect, since you can be surprised and Koed before Wish kicks in) and Taunt/Heal Bell as your other move.

I'm thinking of using this poke here for general purposes:

Entei@Leftovers

Calm Mind
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Substitute/HP grass
Roar

It can be good against those who thinks they can set up against you(Cresselia, Slowbro, i'm looking at you both). 101 HP Subs to set up against Seismic Toss pokes, some speed to be able of outspeed some important pokes(... Porygon Z... Drapion... Arcanine) and the rest on sp.atk.

 

[tophway]

I was using HP Ground/Psychic most of the time for those reasons Raikou151, but even more so than missing a SE hit on Absol I missed being able to hit psychics (opposing Cress). After switching to Signal Beam it has been nice being able to keep up the momentum by staying in with your CM boosts and, depending on how many you have, running through other Cress rather than running from.

Losing HP Ground has made me more careful with how I play my Dugtrio, but he has proven to be a great partner to Cress. As I think has been mentioned a few times already, trapping and hammering Houndoom, Drapion, Raikou and Registeel is great for that pink moster.

 

[Heysup]

I don't get the obsession with absol/drapion. Played right, Cress will knock you off no problem whatsoever, then proceed to heal off whatever damage you managed to do. In all honesty unless you can switch in with impunity, and can ohko 100% of the time without set-up, you're fucked. Simple as that. I'm hardly gonna sit idly by as you SD up. You're dead the second absol/drapion comes in.

Where is / are your logic / facts to support this? Do you realize Cresselia can't do much to Absol or Drapion at all? The worst that can happen is that you paralyze them on the switch, which honestly doesn't stop Absol in particular.

Absol switches into <insert attack that doesn't effect it (Psychic, Moonlight, Reflect, Calm Mind) or does lol damage w/ Ice Beam or HP Ground>
Absol uses Swords Dance, Cresselia uses <insert attack that Absol takes lol damage again>
Absol uses Night Slash. Cresselia faints.

It's quite simple. Unless you carry Psycho Shit (this set is flat out terrible), or CM Signal Beam (who Absol can still beat as long as it doesn't switch into a Signal Beam), you will lose to Absol. Worse yet, you now have to deal with a +2 Absol. Good luck.

Both of them get shut down completely by Thunder Wave, though, so I don't even see the point of using them to deal with Cress. Oh and there's also the possibility of Psycho Shift/Reflect/Trick, all of those moves would screw up Absol/Drapion quite badly.

I'm on the fence about P-Z, but Cress really needs to go.

Reflect doesn't do anything, to be honest. It takes a turn, instead of attacking or something, to "negate" a Swords Dance. This means Absol can simply just Swords Dance again, since you gave it this free turn, while you can't use Reflect again.

Trick is a waste of Cresselia imo, especially since CB Drapion is a common switch.

All in all, I think CM Signal Beam is the best set for Cress. I also think that Cresselia isn't "as unstoppable" as people make it out to be. Crobat was worse. Yanmega was worse. Hell, anything that has been banned was probably worse (and of course, imo, even Pokemon that haven't been banned). This doesn't mean it isn't broken, though.

 

[Rolf]

All in all, I think CM Signal Beam is the best set for Cress. I also think that Cresselia isn't "as unstoppable" as people make it out to be. Crobat was worse. Yanmega was worse. Hell, anything that has been banned was probably worse (and of course, imo, even Pokemon that haven't been banned). This doesn't mean it isn't broken, though.

If I had to express my stance on Cressy, that would be it.

I've been running a sand team and have both my alts on the leaderboard atm. (which really isn't that hard right now) Sand right now is just so dominant. I really haven't seen much sand since the massive OU dropdown (Rhyperior, Alakazam and company) but it really plays well.

Rhyperior is a MONSTER in sand, taking about 20% from Cresselias unboosted Ice Beams and even less from Psychic. It can even take Alakazam's Psychics for only 40%, the strongest non-super effective special move to hit Rhyperior in UU. (correct me if I'm wrong) Oh, and remember that Cressy only gets to heal 25% with Moonlight in the sand, so you are able to Megahorn it to a quick death.

On another note, Cradily plays very very well also. It takes laughable amounts of damage from every special move in the tier. Missy's LO +2 Shadow Ball does around 47% on the standard Curse set. Not only that but it is immune to Roar/Whirlwind due to Suction Cups. Only hazers and very strong physical attacks (when you don't have many Curses) stop it. Just Rest away any status and you're good to go another round.

Well, I take that last part back. Encore/Toxic Clefable is stupidly annoying for my team and I can see it doing well vs. numerous others too. It's a force to be reckoned with at the moment, coming in on many top threats and encoring their setup attempts.

 

[Bluewind]

Trick is a waste of Cresselia imo, especially since CB Drapion is a common switch.

Far from that. Trick a Flame Orb on a Drapion, get its Choice Band and take a mediocre hit as you switch out, then just switch in Cresselia later and cripple something with Choice Band. Of course that won't always happen, and I recognize that might not be the best set for Cresselia, as the player can see the Trick coming and switch in something that can take advantage of the band, but that move isn't an useless or an absurd choice, especially on the hands of a good player.