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np: UU - Here It Goes Again
- Thread starter Caelum
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Well, to be fair, the hail teams were from 3-4 different people and I hit each of them about 5 times.
I was thinking about running a Milotic, but it honestly just seemed to me like a dick move because it's stupid powerful without Shaymin. Resttalk sets with Surf/Ice Beam will be next to impossible to kill.
strange, missy is the best poke on my team and im currently #4 writing this.
Ive gone back and used my old team from right after raikou and company (including crobat) left. Obviously it has been working. People should go back to hp fighting on missy instead of tbolt since crobat and milotic were the only reasons to use them and you beat milotic without haze which are rare imo. I had to replace honch with absol. Shaymin was the biggest threat to my team back then and now its flourishing just the same as last time.
I agree that losing Crobat hurts stall but honestly, no counter to Nasty Plot Toxicroak? There is plenty that can handle both SD and NP Toxicroak: Drapion, Arcanine, Typhlosion, Ninetales, Uxie (with Psychic), Moltres, Charizard, Espeon (with sub), Yanmega (needs hypnosis for Sucker Punch). They may not resist every possible move, but they can take the unboosted STAB or the boosted Sucker Punch (or sub against it). Also, some things like Gastrodon and Hitmonlee could take the NP set you posted, but not necessarily the SD set.
Yes, I now return to the discussion to promote Trick Room and abstract thoughts. Please don't flame me, or distort my posts.
You know, the lack of Sucker Punch Honchcrow (which is as annoying as Murkrow in Little Cup) means that people should start using TR.
...of course, while I'm dreaming, I want to be actually allowed to play pokemon, instead of sneaking, I want to be on Shoddy every day, and I want to ACTUALLY BE ON THIS SUMMER!
You know, the lack of Sucker Punch Honchcrow (which is as annoying as Murkrow in Little Cup) means that people should start using TR.
...of course, while I'm dreaming, I want to be actually allowed to play pokemon, instead of sneaking, I want to be on Shoddy every day, and I want to ACTUALLY BE ON THIS SUMMER!
TR teams would still have trouble with Milotic (I had trouble with EUM's Milotic during the Tour with my TR team).
Just a quick note: Yanmega and Azumarill are pretty hard for a standard offensive team to handle, and Swellow+Nidoking/Blaziken/<instert wallbreaker> are really tough for stall to handle.
I'm seeing a LOT of Rock/Paper/Scissors match ups, which is something I like to avoid. "If you have this, you lose to this but beat this" is definitely not the way I want to play. Hopefully it'll even out or become more obvious how to deal with these Pokemon.
I think balanced teams are going to end up getting it done better.
EDIT: I miss my damn caps in my name!
I'm seeing a LOT of Rock/Paper/Scissors match ups, which is something I like to avoid. "If you have this, you lose to this but beat this" is definitely not the way I want to play. Hopefully it'll even out or become more obvious how to deal with these Pokemon.
I think balanced teams are going to end up getting it done better.
EDIT: I miss my damn caps in my name!
Yeah I've basically raped the ladder with stall. Quite easy to beat everything with the removal of the suspects from the ladder, especially Crobat who could Taunt setup moves and such. Its so cool for Spiritomb to sweep with some Calm Minds after residual damage is up.
Edit: As for the notion that stall is easier to break without Crobat user LonelyNess, that is completely false. If you think that is the case, you haven't crafted yourself a good balanced stall team. Lots of stuff can fill Crobat's niche (although not as well) in terms of a fast-paced attacker on stall that supports both itself and the team. If anything, I'd argue stall is even more viable and successful for the average UU player.
Edit: As for the notion that stall is easier to break without Crobat user LonelyNess, that is completely false. If you think that is the case, you haven't crafted yourself a good balanced stall team. Lots of stuff can fill Crobat's niche (although not as well) in terms of a fast-paced attacker on stall that supports both itself and the team. If anything, I'd argue stall is even more viable and successful for the average UU player.
Uhh, you know even Umbreon is fast enough to taunt spiritomb right?
I've been raping several Pokemon with my Sceptile recently. It stands more of a chance with Shaymin and Crobat gone.
I've likewise found Sub/Seed Sceptile to be quite effective. It's faster than anything remaining other than Electrode and Swellow. Absol is also fairly effective in the current situation. It can fill Honchkrow's niche despite not having as much type coverage. With Swords Dance and base 130 attack it has a lot more power.
And you'd know that you don't set-up Spiritomb on Umbreon right? Every stall team has an answer to opposing stat-uppers...if you don't you obviously haven't created a viable team. You stat-up on what you can, and set up residual damage when plausible.
Without Crobat,i have an even easier time with Cursebreon.
This one gets the job done quite easily,i don't know why no one uses it.
Who cares about Blaziken Superpower?I can easily outstall them after a curse,i just need to Moonlight once..
Steelix is coming to roar it?Taunt it.
Someone is trying to stall me?Taunt them.And the list goes on.
You say Umbreon lacks power?Yes,it lacks,but after setting up so many times(for me,Umbreon is the easiest poke to set up in UU)it really doesn't matter much,it will have a mean punch.
There is a problem though:Umbreon is probably moving up to OU next month lol
This one gets the job done quite easily,i don't know why no one uses it.
Who cares about Blaziken Superpower?I can easily outstall them after a curse,i just need to Moonlight once..
Steelix is coming to roar it?Taunt it.
Someone is trying to stall me?Taunt them.And the list goes on.
You say Umbreon lacks power?Yes,it lacks,but after setting up so many times(for me,Umbreon is the easiest poke to set up in UU)it really doesn't matter much,it will have a mean punch.
There is a problem though:Umbreon is probably moving up to OU next month lol
that's what I'm wondering. are you serious?
HeYsUp (Heysup?) touched on this earlier, but for offensive teams that do not carry a bulky water type around, Azumarril is a nightmare. However, Life Orb Milotic has made for an acceptable offensive counter. LOMilotic has great bulk and really lasts all match if you play well and avoid status. The 81 base speed is really helping out.
Well, the removal of Crobat has made the leads more diverse, and Ambipom is back in his primary role of a lead.
However, there is one concern now that really scares me - Rain Dance. It was always hard to beat a good Rain Dance team, but now without Sucker Punch from Honchkrow, and Taunt from Crobat, Rain Dance is a truly terrifying sight.
Ludicolo in particular is the problem. His fantastic coverage along with Focus Punch to beat Chansey is amazing.
I know it's too early to determine suspects right now, but I feel Ludicolo should be considered for the next batch - under the Offensive and Supporting charateristic. Supporting because even though it can be "stopped" by Registeel, it leaves massive holes for another sweeper to finish off.
However, there is one concern now that really scares me - Rain Dance. It was always hard to beat a good Rain Dance team, but now without Sucker Punch from Honchkrow, and Taunt from Crobat, Rain Dance is a truly terrifying sight.
Ludicolo in particular is the problem. His fantastic coverage along with Focus Punch to beat Chansey is amazing.
I know it's too early to determine suspects right now, but I feel Ludicolo should be considered for the next batch - under the Offensive and Supporting charateristic. Supporting because even though it can be "stopped" by Registeel, it leaves massive holes for another sweeper to finish off.
| Umbreon | Move | Taunt | 13.8 |
Except you are supposed to set up on Umbreon as almost none of them even have taunt but alright.
You specifically mentioned that the lack of the fast taunt in Crobat helps stall, and then you mentioned spiritomb as an example, I merely pointed out that you are using an extremely bad example as Spiritomb is possibly the slowest taunter on the tier. It's cute that you are questioning my pokebattle skills in an attempt to cover your own bad explanations, but please try harder next time.
And while we're on the topic, Erazor, Umbreon can quite easily stall a non SD Ludicolo out, focus punch actually does less to Umbreon than a surf from Ludi, but I don't know about any other poke around who can do the same, and if Umbreon gets OU'd then that will be one less obstacle in rain teams' path. I also may have to consider Mach Punch instead of Bullet to start revenging rain teams as I no longer need to revenge crobat.
^_^
Well, there's always Absol and even Toxicroak (who single-handedly counters most of a Rain Dance team anyways) to Sucker Punch for you. And I think many people are overestimating Ludicolo's attacking prowess. I know for a fact that Omastar (who has 115 base SATK compared to Ludicolo's 90) needs a Modest nature with max EVs AND a LO to be able to guarantee the OHKO on min/min Crobat with Ice Beam. I also know from experience that min/min Shaymin can survive a Ludicolo's LO Ice Beam after Stealth Rock, although Shaymin would die from LO recoil if it had it. If these kinds of Pokemon can survive without any defensive EVs, I can only imagine how many bulkily-EV'd Pokemon can survive. Stuff like defensive Roserade, Venusaur, Lanturn, even Azumarill can survive a SE attack and take it down with their own SE attack (Roserade, Venusaur), a crippling status (Lanturn), or just pure brute force (Azumarill).
I'd provide some actual calcs, but I'm at work right now and I hate libelldra's calculator. >_> Unfortunately, my laptop also decided to choose the worst time possible to break, so I won't even be able to play for at least a week... If someone else wants to provide some calcs in my stead, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, I'll edit this post or post again later when I can get the chance to deal with libelldra.
Max HP/Attack Hitmonchan can take a LO rain stab Waterfall or a Surf and survive with ~10% HP then OHKO with Close Combat.
^_^
Listen, I'm not gonna argue with you because you are an obviously superior battler than I am. You're such a good battler that you'd rather set up Spikes, Stealth Rock, or Crotomb on an Umbreon that will probably Curse up right in your face and sweep you. Yeah, that's quite the battling strategy you have there. When did I ever mention Spiritomb using Taunt? All I said was I won plenty of battles on the ladder setting up entry hazards and then also setting up Crotomb. Rather than trying to put words in my mouth, try and read what is being posted and comment on that. Its cute that you are questioning my pokebattle knowledge in an attempt to cover your inability to read, please try harder next time ^_^.
Well, Shaymin is like an UU Celebi and has a big and wide movepool. So I'm glad Shaymin is not Limbo anymore. I still feel sorry for that Yanmega because of changes in Platinum. At least it does get the job done.
Someone is rather excitable I see.... I never questioned whether or not you were a good battler m'dear, I questioned your logic and ability to articulate your thoughts, as seen here.
It's rather ironic though that immediately after not reading my post properly that you accuse me of reading poorly. And while we're on the topic of that.
I did read your post, I get the direct implication that you are implying that Crobat's removal hinders spiritomb from setting up calm minds, which I already explained doesn't make sense as there are other taunters (like perhaps Drapion who can not only taunt but also set up spikes or SD while resisting Spiritomb's STABs.) Perhaps this is not what you meant, but if so then you phrased your post poorly, I think we've all done that in the past, there is not much reason to start yelling at me. And, perhaps I should explain something else that you seem to have misread.
You didn't, I did. I was trying to illustrate that since Spiritomb is probably the slowest taunter on the tier, that every other taunter is going to outspeed. Make sense?
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