• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

np: UU - The Boys Are Back in Town

Status
Not open for further replies.
Exclamation Point said:
This. I just don't understand why "overcentralization" is used to argue against Froslass. Because as I stated a few posts ago Ambipom centralizes the lead portion of the metagame more so then any other Pokemon and has been doing so for a long time.
Click to expand...

It's completely different. Ambipom being used so often as a lead (partially do to that goddamn Low Kick glitch), doesn't really effect much of anything, since it is easily countered by something like Regirock/Registeel/Steelix/Rhyperior, etc. So if your lead loses versus Ambipom, you don't essentially lose the match like you do if you lose versus Froslass. Plus, you can just put Protect on like any Pokemon and "beat" Ambipom...

In fact, before Froslass was back, why was there so many diverse leads if Ambipom centralized the metagame so much?

It isn't centralization that makes a Pokemon broken, it's the fact that they need to over-centralize, meaning they need to use otherwise weak/shitty Pokemon (like the Spiritomb in question) to counter these absurdly dangerous Pokemon, such as Froslass.

Lemmiwinks MkII said:
And I was under the impression that Spiritomb was used as a lead to beat Ambipom and Alakazam leads too, the former being far more common. Otherwise there would be little advantage to running it there over one of the many other good leads capable of beating Froslass.

I guess that's just me being idiotic and ignorant once again.
Click to expand...

Then why not use Uxie, Registeel, Steelix, Regirock, (insert Bulky SR lead), Choice Scarf leads, or any other "good" lead (as opposed to Spiritomb who you call shitty) if you want to counter those Pokemon? Why are people then using Spiritomb over actually "good" leads if Froslass isn't the main Pokemon they don't want to lose against? If Spiritomb is as bad as you say (I agree, it is), why do people use it when there are a huge amount of other options that deal with Alakazam and Ambipom better?
 
OK, you two are just misunderstanding each other.

Lemmiwinks is stating that the current LeadTomb standard is shit, and needs to change, partially to reflect the Proslass change.

You, Heysup, are interpreting this as him saying that Spiritomb isn't an effective lead, period, and many other Pokemon can do the same job equally well.

Both of you are right - the current LeadTomb isn't very good, and many other leads would fit better.

I think Lemmiwinks makes a good suggestion - Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball would be an effective replacement over Pursuit on the lead set.

I'm thinking Dark Pulse/Shadow Sneak/Will-O-Wisp/Filler on the set? Any opinions?
 
I would much prefer Shadow Ball on a lead Spiritomb if at all possible. Spiritomb can barely take advantage of Dark Pulse's flinch rate at all, but Shadow Ball's SpDef drops are very useful. Also hits Gallade super-effectively and Blaziken neutrally. Dark Pulse is only really preferable if you need something to hit Ambipom, but the final slot can fix that.

I think the lead set should be Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak, with either WoW or Pain Split in the third slot. The final slot should be either Pursuit or HP Fighting IMO. Pursuit hits things hard on the switch, most importantly Ambipom, but if it isn't needed as much, HP Fighting also hits it hard, as well as Cloysters and Omastars a bit harder than Shadow Ball does. Also slams Houndooms that may switch in looking for an easy setup, and even Absol (if lacking WoW or is packing Taunt). Such a set would give Spiritomb some kind of answer to most of the common leads, unlike the disgustingly bad current standard.

But I haven't used Spiritomb as a lead since coming up with TrickBand back in the previous testing period. This is just based on careful observation of the current lead metagame.
 
Don't feel like posting a RMT. Here is a team I made and has been successful (enough). The only flaw so far is my patience... and my lack of a decent physical wall choice.

Beedrill (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Endeavor
- Substitute
- Toxic Spikes
---
Venusaur (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Sleep Talk
---
Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Payback
- Wish
- Curse/ Taunt
- Heal Bell
---
Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Stealth Rock/ Rest
---
Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Roar
- Yawn/ Filler
- Rapid Spin
---
Gallade (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Trick
- Encore
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
---

While Beedrill isn't the most consistent lead he does have his perks. He is able to setup Toxic Spikes, Scout with U-Turn, and more often than not take down a wall or two. Umbreon + Venusaur combo has certainly impressed me. Umbreon full on supports with Wish and Heal Bell while Venusaur knocks out the opponent's pokemon one at a time. Steelix is meh, I just needed a decent phsyical wall (hard to find) to take on Swellow and such. Blastoise is undoubtedly the best Rapid Spinner right now and I intend to make use of him. Scarf Gallade is pretty potent. The set speaks for itself.

To be honest, this Beedrill set of mine is top notch and I'm not just tooting my own horn. It would be nice if someone could do a write-up for it.
 
What about Aggron over Steelix? He can be used to wall Swellow, and he does have a great support movepool and that painful Head Smash of his.
Can use Curse too(not the best option though).
 
I would suggest Regirock over Steelix. It gives you another Fire resist, and solid Moltres counter, as long as you watch out for HP Grass.
 
Exclamation Point said:
Don't feel like posting a RMT. Here is a team I made and has been successful (enough). The only flaw so far is my patience... and my lack of a decent physical wall choice.

Beedrill (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Endeavor
- Substitute
- Toxic Spikes

I would like to know how he deals with Froslass. If he is unable to, maybe you should consider lead Pinser?
---
Venusaur (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Sleep Talk

First time you send it out, use Sludge Bomb to scout for the counter. If they are countering Physical Venusaur, don't worry, and if they aren't, use Sleep Powder on the SECOND switch in.
---
Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Payback
- Wish
- Curse/ Taunt
- Heal Bell

Eh. It looks ok. I'd note that you don't need 2 curse users, though, cause this isn't GSC. So, if you keep Steelix, use Taunt.
---
Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Stealth Rock/ Rest

Why not use something like Camerupt? (good Raikou/most electric types counter) Sereously. Oh, and even though you'd have no SR, Rest is better (so use a Pinser lead!)
---
Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Roar
- Yawn/ Filler
- Rapid Spin

Two sleep users? Ok... maybe you should use Aqua Jet, or something else like that.
---
Gallade (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Trick
- Encore
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat

Trick specs gallade is the bane of humanity! (keep using it.)
---

While Beedrill isn't the most consistent lead he does have his perks. He is able to setup Toxic Spikes, Scout with U-Turn, and more often than not take down a wall or two. Umbreon + Venusaur combo has certainly impressed me. Umbreon full on supports with Wish and Heal Bell while Venusaur knocks out the opponent's pokemon one at a time. Steelix is meh, I just needed a decent phsyical wall (hard to find) to take on Swellow and such. Blastoise is undoubtedly the best Rapid Spinner right now and I intend to make use of him. Scarf Gallade is pretty potent. The set speaks for itself.

To be honest, this Beedrill set of mine is top notch and I'm not just tooting my own horn. It would be nice if someone could do a write-up for it.
Click to expand...

Just my thoughts in bold. (I'm not so good at this whole "Team rating" thing)
 
mattman said:
I would like to know how he deals with Froslass. If he is unable to, maybe you should consider lead Pinser?
Click to expand...

Why do you keep bringing lead Pinsir up? Unless I'm missing something here Froslass beats Pinsir horribly. It either guarantees 2 layers of Spikes or gets 1 layer + D-Bond. It can even Taunt Pinsir's Stealth Rock attempts.

mattman said:
While Froslass is a decent lead, I've found that Pinser (just make sure you run EQ) can defeat it many times. It gets Froslass down to the sash, and then most will either switch, or D-Bond, allowing you to protect (The set I've been using is Protect, SR, and one of EQ, [for Froslass], CC [for Ambipom], or X-scizzor [for Alakazam]).
Click to expand...

Firstly, 383 Atk Earthquake only does 170 damage on average to a 0 Def Froslass so that isn't even close to the Sash but it's still a 2HKO all the same. And why would Froslass care if you Protect? She can simply D-Bond again and again or start throwing out more Spikes. In this lead metagame Pokemon are divided into two categories - Pokemon that can handle Froslass and Pokemon that get utterly pummeled by Froslass. Pinsir falls into the latter category.

Please stop bringing it up unless you're going to explain yourself properly.
 
This is a team that I've been using lately. I think it's only lost once? It has trouble with rain but I managed to play around the only rain team I've come across. It's pretty innovative I think. I won't have time to play with it much so I thought I might let some other people try it out!

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Spikes
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Shard
---
Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Pain Split
- Will-o-wisp
---
Alakazam (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Reflect
- Encore
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
---
Honchkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Brave Bird
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
---
Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/96 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Roar
---
Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Roar
---

Pretty much get Spikes + SR up early with Froslass / Rhyperior then use Rhyperior / Raikou to shuffle. I normally take the offensive with Froslass and prioritize KOing Uxie / Moltres / other Froslass before setting up Spikes because those Pokemon give the team a lot of trouble. 2 Thunderbolts will KO Moltres, 2 Shadow Balls with KO Uxie, and 1 Shadow Ball + Ice Shard will KO opposing Froslass. Spiritomb / Alakazam form a pretty cool spin blocking core. You can switch in Spiritomb on Hitmontop's Rapid Spin then immediately switch to Alakazam on Foresight. Use Encore on Foresight or just use Psychic and you're pretty much set. Honchkrow takes out Rhyperior / Quagsire that could prevent Raikou from doing its job well. Roar Steelix is another slightly troubling 'mon but you can normally get rid of it with Rhyperior or Spiritomb before it can do too much damage.
 
@Mattman

Beedrill can get up 1 layer of Toxic Spikes or if he gets Taunted he can U-Turn out to Gallade or whoever.

@Aco

That is a solid looking team. I especially like the Alakazam set.
 
Raikou + Swellow + Dugtrio is a pretty cool combo, I can't really figure out what the best Pokemon to put in the last 3 slots are, but as a mini-strategy it's pretty cool. Swellow U-turns off of Registeel and goes to Dugtrio to take out it. This means Raikou and Swellow can both likely sweep. Dugtrio can also easily remove Chansey for Raikou.
 
Heysup said:
Raikou + Swellow + Dugtrio is a pretty cool combo, I can't really figure out what the best Pokemon to put in the last 3 slots are, but as a mini-strategy it's pretty cool. Swellow U-turns off of Registeel and goes to Dugtrio to take out it. This means Raikou and Swellow can both likely sweep. Dugtrio can also easily remove Chansey for Raikou.
Click to expand...

Probably a Fire Type or Honchrow to take out Venusaur and Sceptile, being the former annoying because of Sleep Powder (which Swellow can't take if orb hasn't been activated yet) and because Swellow just can't afford to switch on any of its attacks bar Earthquake, and Sceptile because he'll be in a speed tie with Swellow and Duggy, meaning if he has some luck (25%) an SD set could kill the three, unless you use Sucker Punch/ Quick Attack. Jolly ScarfKrow might work in tandem with those three.
 
Actually, Swellow outspeeds Sceptile.

The best set for Swellow, IMO, is Jolly with 216 Spd/252 Atk/40 HP, because full speed only gives you the chance of a speed tie with other Swellow, which comes down to chance most of the time. And plus, you don't want to stay in on another Swellow, usually. 216 allows you to outspeed Zam, Sceptile, and Duggy, all of whom Swellow OHKOs with Brave Bird before Guts Boost.

The HP EVs have actually proven handy for me - several times a priority attack that would have just KO'd a normal Swellow, or KO'd 50% of the time, barely misses out because of the HP EVs.

I remember one match where the opponent rolled max damage on Hitmonlee Mach Punch (61.5% IIRC), but Swellow survived, and KO'd with Facade, sealing me the match. The opponent was so pissed, because he thought he rolled min damage on 4/252/252 Swellow.

There aren't any real benefits to max speed anyways.
 
Heysup said:
Raikou + Swellow + Dugtrio is a pretty cool combo, I can't really figure out what the best Pokemon to put in the last 3 slots are, but as a mini-strategy it's pretty cool. Swellow U-turns off of Registeel and goes to Dugtrio to take out it. This means Raikou and Swellow can both likely sweep. Dugtrio can also easily remove Chansey for Raikou.
Click to expand...

Three important aspects come to mind. One is a reliable SR user, preferably Registeel or some other good Grass resist as physical Venusaur can be quite annoying otherwise, particularly if Scarfed. Second is a decent Rhyperior counter for obvious reasons, and third is some reliable way of stopping Curse Umbreon from screwing you over, whether it be an Encorer or a strong Fighter or whatever.

As is the usual problem with three frail Pokemon offense combos, covering yourself defensively is much tougher, but good luck to you if you plan on giving it a go!
 
Well, I hate this metagame, now more than ever. I can't wait for it to be over and to ban every single pre-BL poke from UU. I'm getting haxed like never before; gimmicks are EVERYWHERE, along with assholes and cocky people who only win due to MAJOR hax. I may sound like a bitch atm, but it gets very aggravating to not be able to remain consistent due to hax. Tbh, I'm not even exaggerating, that's the sad part. =/ Well, how's that for a conversation starter? Do as you will with this post. I just had to get all that out.
 
Well, Flame, asses, dumbasses, and trolls have been and always will be around. So will luck... I understand what you're saying, but theres really nothing we can do about most of that. For the ex-BLs, all we can do is wait... yeah..
 
Class said:
Well, Flame, asses, dumbasses, and trolls have been and always will be around. So will luck... I understand what you're saying, but theres really nothing we can do about most of that. For the ex-BLs, all we can do is wait... yeah..
Click to expand...

Yet, it seems like I'm just now being bombarded by them. I've had hax before, but this is just insane. I mean I've had matches clearly won, and hax have just destroyed that for me. If I come across a good log, I will post it.
 
What do any of the suspects, aside from possibly Honchkrow, have to do with being broken due to hax? The only one of them who enjoys any extra "hax" over almost every other Pokemon is Super Luck Honchkrow, so yes, all you're doing is bitching about your poor luck.

Moving on to another subject, does anybody else think Toxic Spikes are extremely good right now? Now that Roserade is gone, and with the introduction of all these new Suspects, it seems like the only Poison-type seeing any notable amount of play is Venusaur, and while it is common (although not as common as Roserade from what I've seen), if it's killed or your opponent doesn't have one, it can be pretty devastating, even with just a single layer. Gallade, Raikou, Rhyperior, Arcanine, Froslass, Spiritomb, Blastoise, almost all of the most common Pokemon found in the current metagame is affected by it, and they all hate it. I got destroyed by a stall team utilizing Toxic Spikes because I had no way to get rid of them and every team member except one was affected by them, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has suffered or could suffer such a fate.
 
All I said was that I was getting haxed more than usual. I wasn't bitching, all I did was ak if anyway else was having the same problem. Don't be an ass -.-. Moving on...I could see Tspikes doing ok, but most people keep venu alive the whole game, so it will be pretty tough to take advantage of them too much. Also, what would you even use? Drapion and omastar?
 
Toxic spikes is actually really nice in my opinion. It only takes one turn to become extremely beneficial against offensive teams. As for playing stall, two free turns arent exactly hard to come by. It forces venusaur, drapion, etc. into the match regularly where you can continually smash on them. I have never regretted taking a turn to lay them and it can cripple some teams simply because they forgot about toxic spikes when making their uu team that hasn't really had to worry about them before(I usually don't use both layers unless its clearly stall). Poison types without recovery are very easy to remove from the match quickly thanks to the ability to make it have to come out and even venusaur hasn't given me many problem when it comes to wearing out a teams poison type. Its definitely a viable option.
 
Nidoking can be a problem for Toxic Spikes though. It hits anything for a good amount of damage, including Slowbro/Tangrowth(Megahorn),bulky Arcanines/Registeel(STAB Earthquake), Altaria/Moltres(Stone Edge) and many others.
Depending of the item,ability and gender(Rivalry) all of them will be at least 2HKOed(even max/max Tangrowth). Without Rivalry(and genders), you can still do a good amount of damage against them. Absorbing Toxic Spikes, logically.
 
^ What I find most amazing is that often the gender thing isn't something just unconsciously overlooked, as a lot of people actually go to the trouble of posting the fact that all their Pokes are Male. Ex Point's team above is a perfect example of this; I wouldn't want to be facing a CB Rivalry Nidoking if using a team like that!

Anyway, whilst I think Toxic Spikes can be very effective if used right, I have to question the idea of suiciding with them early-game before any scouting. At least one in three teams carry a Poison type of some kind, probably more, and against those teams the effort is completely wasted, or at least not worth one Pokemon.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
^ What I find most amazing is that often the gender thing isn't something just unconsciously overlooked, as a lot of people actually go to the trouble of posting the fact that all their Pokes are Male. Ex Point's team above is a perfect example of this; I wouldn't want to be facing a CB Rivalry Nidoking if using a team like that!
Click to expand...

That's most likely because he used shoddy to copy/paste his team, and shoddy includes the gender. Not because he specifically wanted his team to be all male.

Anyway, whilst I think Toxic Spikes can be very effective if used right, I have to question the idea of suiciding with them early-game before any scouting. At least one in three teams carry a Poison type of some kind, probably more, and against those teams the effort is completely wasted, or at least not worth one Pokemon.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about suicide TSpiking? Most of the TSpikers available in UU are actually quite bulky (Drapion, Nidoqueen, Cloyster, etc.), suicide TSpiking would be a waste of their abilities.
 
I've been using acoustik's team to success. Great team! I found it refreshing from my old gallade abusing team. Your team uses some suspicious characters ;)

Alakazam is a lot better than I thought he'd be. Reflect was all around a good choice and Encore has saved me from Honkchrow's Sucker Punch > BB attempts.

Froslass is quite retarded. The best part of it is how basic people perceive her build to be, especially when in the lead position. Your unique set allows me to beat many of her designated counters, while still spiking. Her typing, threat, and flexibility in damn good sets makes me think she truly is too much.

Honkchrow is too much. I used to run the same set except Adamant with Roost. Now that Rhyperior is more apparent, it seems HP:Grass was the right decision. Nothing can reliably come into Honkchrow, since BB + SE move = death. It seems to be like the old Blaziken mix set when "nothing could safely switch in without 2HKO", so LO recoil was the only way to counter it. Well, Honkchrow has an easier time coming in, even with SR weakness, and beats up everyone mercilessly. The sad part is, unlike Froslass who also has a plethora of good options, Honkchrow covers all of its counters with one moveset, albeit 4th slot is up to debate. There's just no easy way to counter this guy.

Raikou feels a little underwhelming on your team. Perhaps I'm playing wrong and not removing ground counters correctly. I do enjoy his bulk and double roar is great on this team. I dunno if restalk is the best option tho. More play testing needed...

Rhyperior and Spiritomb do their job, though nothing particularly interesting I can recall.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top