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np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up

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Slashari said:
If you guys think Goodra is going to be underwhelming, think again. Base 150 SpD with respectable mixed attacking stats go a long way.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 117-140 (30.4 - 36.4%) -- 57.1% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 212-252 (55.2 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 108-128 (28.1 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
This thing is taking 65% max from Modest Hydreigon's Draco Meteor and 36% from Nidoking's Ice Beam while holding an Assault Vest/max HP. Bulky offense is going to be better than ever with Goodra in the tier.
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Yeah, that's impressive and all, but it can't do much back. It gets worn down so fast and can't break much on its own. Goodra is good, but its flaws are consistent regardless of the tier it's in just because of it's lack of "status" movepool, by which I mean boosting moves/Recover

Not saying Goodra is bad though
 
Bouffalant said:
fletch is god faggits
countering nape and volc
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In the same manner Scarf-Staraptor is a solid counter but I won't open the BL can of worms just yet.
Scarf Crobat might become a thing which seems unhealthy for the tier.
Other flying types fail to outspeed as even Mega-dactyle won't be outspeeding ScarfApe or +1 Volc.

kokoloko said:
and azelf (can't 2HKO with any combination of moves if one is prio).
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I don't know why you said that when ape can break to sash while hanging on his and than just much punch the 1hp.
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 316-372 (108.5 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


SubCM Chandy can use Blissey as set-up fodder so it seems like a thing. gone to try it out.
 
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kokoloko said:
All of the drops will be allowed to remain in the tier for approximately two weeks before the council has a vote to decide which ones are potentially broken.
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Ahahahahahahahaha

Anywho drops thingy/predictions:

Blissy: Goes BL after a month or 2 because stally OP is less noticeable than offensive OP then dropsban immediately with a 5 for-7 against vote or some shit because thats how this works.

Goodra: See's use as AV, is never ever mentioned by anyone but goomy freaks.

Nape: Cb/Rocks/LO mixed/Scarf see a lot of useage and jelly may climb back up to UU to help bro hold off ape but sans that ape is basically gen 5 tini. You just build a core and it probably checks ape without too much thought.

Lucario: Luke makes hazards HO so formulaic its stupid, NP breaks all stall but to be honest its not even necessary with LOAdamant SD just running through the entire tier at +2 with rocks+2 spikes up. Seriously if luke SD's with hazards flip a coin Heads is BP and you can check with non darm scarfed fire tails is Espeed and you can check with MAero. Lose the flip or have a mangled scarf and you just auto lose as early as turn 3 no matter how many checks your carrying. Why this isnt already BL I have no idea.

Volcarona: Bulky volc is the god of pink core team. With its harem of pink bitched nora gains an ideal environment, no hazards, no fear of para, d no real counters with support. It also happens to be the onyl way for pink to have any game against luke. Modest LO fire blast nora will see use on dugtrio offense and good luck stopping it Duggy rips bliss, this has no counters. RIP.

Zam: LO zam has no safe switchins that arent wearing an AV, over centralizing as hell.

Long story short Nora and Luke and overcentralizing uncompetitive win cons when built around properly and are absurdly unhealthy for any level of competitive play within the UU tier. 2 weeks of HO vs full stall as only meta sounds boring as hell. Ban asap or at least drop their damn checks from blacklist (MENCE FFS) to make the tier playable. Zam and bliss with eventually see BL but bliss may stay due to the strong stall bias within the playerbase. Nape and goodra never belonged in OU and probably have a home here.
 
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Hi so from the ten or so games I just played this new tier is fun a f Infernape in UU it's been too long

Also the double standard in UU is crazy strong as always, when usually half the time people go "le stupid council banning everything that beats stall you autocratic fucks" and now everyone is clamouring for quick bans when the mons have been in the tier for literally hours ._. Enjoy the tier people !

I'm still trying out the new toys so I'll just post a couple of sets for old mons which imo got a whole of a lot better with the shift;


hippowdon.gif


Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SDef / 80 Def
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind / Stone Edge

Ground-types as a whole have gotten a big boost with the drops (on another team I ran Scarf Krook and it's better than ever) and Hippo has a fairly good matchup against most of them. A couple of calcs :

252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Hippowdon: 175-208 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (still loses to Close Combat + Grass Knot tho - this is the 2hko the 80 def evs avoid btw)
+2 252+ Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Hippowdon: 309-364 (73.5 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (outdamages Ice Punch)
+2 252 SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Hippowdon: 229-271 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Hippowdon: 266-314 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (also imo the best set is the bulky one with Roost but w/e)

So yea fat Hippo looks like its going to be the go-to bulky SR setter in this metagame if only because it doesn't get utterly wrecked by the Grass coverage the new drops have. Tbh I was loving it even before the shift for its ability to check Mega Houndoom really well (well by checking I mean getting fucked by Destiny Bond of course) and stopping Volt Switch reliably but now it seems like it might become a really good pivot for offensive teams as well.


sableye.gif


Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Atk (i'll follow everyone's example and not show my speed creep hue)
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off / Foul Play
- Taunt

As someone has already pointed out in the thread Sableye is a really good counter to (Mega) Zam until people start running Dazzling Gleam just to fuck it over. Sadly even with SpDef investment Sableye loses to special Luke but it counters the physical variants pretty handily tho. Also with so many new things that shit on Florges you don't really have to worry about it as much which is always nice and with Blissey in the tier its nice to have Sableye around (btw on the topic of Blissey I really don't see what there is to bitch about considering pretty much the only broken thing about Chansey was that it had really good physical bulk on top of everything else. Blissey loses to any half decent physical threat, not to mention a plethora of special attackers that have ways around it, and is as easy to wear down as ever. Nothing broken about it imo)

/end tl;dr
 
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i'm looking at shaymin, celebi, jirachi, mew, timid (or scarf!) chandelure, hippowdon, donphan, swampert, intimidate krook, nidoqueen, tentacruel, gligar (lol), and good old offensive pressure

and then i see lucario.

i think we're okay on that front.

megazam and volc on the other hand...rip
 
All Blissey does is basically slow down the specially offensive pressure in the tier, as there are definitely more defensive ways around it. Semistall/opposing stall teams literally gives zero shits about Blissey and make it the biggest liability to ever exist. However, teams definitely aren't going to be anywhere near the same in this meta that's for sure, so you're gonna have to teambuild. But to say that it's uncounterable is laughable. It's nowhere near the level of Eviolite Chansey.

And to the person who linked PZ Double-Edge... you do realize it's one of the few 'mons that can actually plough right past Blissey?

+4 252 SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 314-370 (48.1 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That is with Lum Berry, no Life Orb, and Blissey using pretty much the most specially defensive of its viable spreads.
 
Meru said:
Semistall/opposing stall teams literally gives zero shits about Blissey and make it the biggest liability to ever exist.
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When did opposing stall teams stop giving a shit about you getting off 350 HP wishes and bringing any of your other pokes back to literally full health? It's certainly not useless against other stalls, and unlike Florges it can set up Stealth Rock, which is always useful in any match-up.

I've been using Blissey on a semi-stall team since it dropped, and it hasn't really been overpowered so far. The physical bulk is pretty damn bad, so mixed attackers like the classic LO Superpower Hydreigon can really screw you over and Blissey is much more vulnerable to Psyshock than Chansey ever was so Alakazam can tear her a new one as well. She's still an excellent pokemon of course, and imo probably the best special wall in the tier. She simply has a better movepool with more options than all the others we have at the moment, despite having an annoying case of 4MSS.
 
I'm just wondering how much less bitchin there would be about Volc if Mence wasn't voted BL. It's OP af right now, even with Blissey, but if there were things like Raptor and Mence in the tier... Not so much.

I'm really excited about Nape finally coming down to UU. It has no place in OU and brings a lot to UU with the mixed Scarf Set or suicide lead set.

Luke is also another thing that should've been UU after the Mega ban. Everyone looks at the SD set or NP set and it's power, but completely overlook the lackluster base 90 Speed. Considering it's usually using an offensive boosting Nature instead of speed boosting, it's a hell of a lot more manageable than all of you give him credit for. He has room for one priority move, which determines what fucks him over. Same with his coverage options. If he goes for Crunch, Gligar walls the shit out if him, and if Ice Punch, Slowbro and Chandy have a field day. He's good, but not broken.
 
jbtc10 said:
When did opposing stall teams stop giving a shit about you getting off 350 HP wishes and bringing any of your other pokes back to literally full health? It's certainly not useless against other stalls, and unlike Florges it can set up Stealth Rock, which is always useful in any match-up.

I've been using Blissey on a semi-stall team since it dropped, and it hasn't really been overpowered so far. The physical bulk is pretty damn bad, so mixed attackers like the classic LO Superpower Hydreigon can really screw you over and Blissey is much more vulnerable to Psyshock than Chansey ever was so Alakazam can tear her a new one as well. She's still an excellent pokemon of course, and imo probably the best special wall in the tier. She simply has a better movepool with more options than all the others we have at the moment, despite having an annoying case of 4MSS.
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Wish Blissey actually brings its own source of problems with it, but could be really good alongside strong stall 'mons that lack reliable recovery like Forretress and Swampert. In addition, I also forgot Blissey can use SR. Might give that a try, since Blissey actually pairs really well with a lot of other clerics, making it very viable to give up Aromatherapy.
 
Cloneblazer12 said:
Luke is also another thing that should've been UU after the Mega ban. Everyone looks at the SD set or NP set and it's power, but completely overlook the lackluster base 90 Speed. Considering it's usually using an offensive boosting Nature instead of speed boosting, it's a hell of a lot more manageable than all of you give him credit for. He has room for one priority move, which determines what fucks him over. Same with his coverage options. If he goes for Crunch, Gligar walls the shit out if him, and if Ice Punch, Slowbro and Chandy have a field day. He's good, but not broken.
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Luke's lackluster speed (it's not actually bad, better than other stuff like the Nido's and Heracross) isn't that much of a drawback though considering he has arguably the best priority move in the game, which when at +2, extinguishes a lot of revenging options, especially after hazards. He's kind of like Honchkrow, except his priority is reliable, has more speed and his moves don't recoil him to death.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 357-421 (101.7 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

He does of course have some slight issues but he's still incredibly centralizing imo. It reminds me of the times in OU when there were those stall teams that were 5 stall mons + Mega Lucario, because he was just that good at sweeping. When I threw together this stall team, I kinda felt obligated to use him as a win con, and that's exactly what he's been in most of my games so far; http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-126608796
 
"Luke is slow guys he has to pick cunters wow"

Amazingly Luke's main nice is on hazard HO, either overload, or dugtrio trap with offensive nora. Build team with hazard lead and 4 thhigns, pick the luke that sweeps what your team overloads or traps.

"BUT IS SLOW WOW?" Man, +2 LO Priority cares so much about 90 base speed.

Nora CAN be checked but sans MAero or a base 86+speed nature scarfer your not outrunning it and its neutral or resistant to almost all of UU's priority. Its defensive checks are straight removed by dugtrio.
 
jjoshcja said:
"Luke is slow guys he has to pick cunters wow"

Amazingly Luke's main nice is on hazard HO, either overload, or dugtrio trap with offensive nora. Build team with hazard lead and 4 thhigns, pick the luke that sweeps what your team overloads or traps.

"BUT IS SLOW WOW?" Man, +2 LO Priority cares so much about 90 base speed.

Nora CAN be checked but sans MAero or a base 86+speed nature scarfer your not outrunning it and its neutral or resistant to almost all of UU's priority. Its defensive checks are straight removed by dugtrio.
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what is nora. do you mean volcarona? if you want to use abbreviations please spell them correctly
 
I've been running luke on an HO team and let me say with screens up luke can set up and sweep really well. Im nervous to say its broken since it definitely has its checks and counters but its really really good
 
galbia said:
If you are into psychoshit...
+2 252 SpA Porygon-Z Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 325-383 (49.9 - 58.8%)
If there are Rocks up Blissey is not safe. I recognize it is a mediocre option but if you have a lot of trouble with it use this RandomSpanishGuy
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I actually love Sleepless ´s idea. Sub/calm mind Chandelure sounds SICK. It also destroys Blissey/Mega Aggron cores, which im pretty sure will become abundant in the tier.
 
yeah, but that core gets raped by cbcross, unless you put in gligar but its not like gligar is hard to prepare for anyway..
 
I don't think Quag deserved to get moved up. With Luke having Bulk up and Swords Dance it's definatley a scary sweeper with either a web up or just an Extreme Speed that can't be taken very well by most pokemon, or even Shell Smash Cloyster that if you can get off, will sweep most teams. One of the only ways to handle that is with Quag and now I feel like I'm not going to enjoy the tier because of annoying things like that. That's just at first look though, maybe things will work out, I just think Quag needs to drop back down.
 
GabooshForUbers said:
I don't think Quag deserved to get moved up. With Luke having Bulk up and Swords Dance it's definatley a scary sweeper with either a web up or just an Extreme Speed that can't be taken very well by most pokemon, or even Shell Smash Cloyster that if you can get off, will sweep most teams. One of the only ways to handle that is with Quag and now I feel like I'm not going to enjoy the tier because of annoying things like that. That's just at first look though, maybe things will work out, I just think Quag needs to drop back down.
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quagsire moved up based on usage not council decision. there's no point appealing it moving up, unless you want to go tell the OU people to stop using it so it goes back down to UU
 
Kitten Milk said:
quagsire moved up based on usage not council decision. there's no point appealing it moving up, unless you want to go tell the OU people to stop using it so it goes back down to UU
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I mean I haven't run into any Quagsire yet... Since it got moved up unless I'm just unlucky I haven't seen it
 
Minus said:
Because you couldn't have ???? Quag is OU now based off of usage, so you won't be seeing it in UU as of now.
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He may mean he hasnt seen any in ou. But tbh quag in ou should be a testament of how bp should be nerfed that mon as bad as quag is getting usage
 
killerkingler said:
He may mean he hasnt seen any in ou. But tbh quag in ou should be a testament of how bp should be nerfed that mon as bad as quag is getting usage
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quag isn't anywhere near bad in OU. if you didn't know, it can counter mega chariard x lacking outrage(which is common nowdays.) it is often stalls only answer to zard x. and quagsire doesn't even stop BP lol
 
whats the point in not running max hp blissey?

im pretty sure its fundamentally sound to max hp on anything defensive before you begin using the defenses unless you're EV'g to specifically not get 2-3hko'd or w.e
 
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