• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

Status
Not open for further replies.
shrang said:
Venomoth does not get Compoundeyes. Venonat does, though. Yanma also doesn't have Tinted Lens, so I don't see how we can compare the two o.o
Click to expand...
Venomoth doesn't have Compoundeyes, but it has Sleep Powder which has roughly the same accuracy as a Compoundeyes Hypnosis which is probably the main, if not only, reason to use Compoundeyes Yanma over Speed Boost (except for 100% accuracy Air Slash? :P).

Venomoth and Yanma both basically have the same duties, decent speed special attacking Bug-Type.

Yanma has Speed Boost to rocket it's speed to that the same of Choice Scarf Primeape, however; and can change it's attacks, but even with a Life Orb boost you very well may find it's attacks lacking in damage. You can pick off weakened Pokemon decently, though, I suppose. Protect will usually ensure you get the initial speed boost, if you last another turn you pretty much outspeed everything and anything, bar priority and Sunny Jumpluff. It's also pretty frail and things like Choice Band Entei will do 90.8% - 107% to it with ExtremeSpeed, while the 4x stealth rock weakness doesn't help at all.

Venomoth has Tinted Lens to help with coverage and already decent special attack. Venomoth gets the exact same coverage as Yanma with Psychic over Air Slash, but Tinted Lens Bug Buzz already does quite a bit to everything. It has the option to put Sleep Powder in it's moveset without having to sacrifice it's ability like Yanma and while it's not exactly "reliable", it is a whole lot better than 60% Hypnosis. It has superior typing with Poison only giving it a 2x weakness to stealth rock, has defenses stronger than a paper bag, and can absorb Toxic Spikes.

---

Also, I've been wondering anyone come up with any amazing sets lately? Although this definitely isn't an exactly new set, this happens to be my favorite Primeape set atm:

Primeape (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- U-turn

Jolly to outspeed Scarf Typhlosion since close to all are neutral natured, along with it being a general speed demon hehe. I don't exactly use Primeape as an attacker, but as a cleaner. He picks off weakened Pokes or scouts + damages other Pokes with U-Turn. Stone Edge is for Fire-Types like Charizard and Typhlosion mostly, plus has much better typing coverage with CC than EQ does. Also owns Venomoth and Articuno. Ice Punch for Jumpluff and to actually hurt Grass-Types. U-Turn also does fun things like OHKO Cacturne and 2HKO Psychics bashing the crap out of them muahahahaha.



And this is a Gardevoir set I've been working on that probably needs some help if anyone is up for it:

Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Spd / 196 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp

It has 60 speed EVs to put itself at 211 which outspeeds max speed neutral nature Exeggutor and Relicanth by two points, and traces Chlorophyll/Swift Swim so I outspeed even in weather. Made it max hp then as specially defensive as possible to take Scarf Eruption with wish + protect after I knock off it's max health with Psychic, along with other random extremely strong attacks like rain surf. I am currently trying to find a better spread though I haven't found or looked for any significant damage calcs that could help with that yet, so if someone could please? Psychic for STAB, Will-O-Wisp for physical attackers. I know it really doesn't do anything to Exeggutor despite out speeding it but it can wish + protect like once to burn out the weather turns that could be out, which is likely if I'm facing Exeggutor.
 
Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Spd / 196 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp
Click to expand...

Hehe, I remember using this set in UU, except with Pain Split over Protect and Taunt over Psychic. Completely destroyed Spiritombs. I had a different EV spread too.
 
Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Spd / 196 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Psychic
- Will-O-Wisp
Click to expand...

I used that set :P cept there was more EVs in defenses to ensure you live a stuntanks pursuit granted you didn't switch out and get off a WoW.

It works pretty well to, the main purpose to me is passing off wishes to sweepers like scarf typhosion.
 
I have an RMT with this little beauty going up in a few days, so I'll go ahead and reveal it. It's the best one turn sweeper I've seen yet, and has so much going for it.

Porygon2 @ Life Orb
Timid / Download
12 HP / 252 Special Attack / 244 Speed
-Agility
-Tri Attack
-Thunderbolt
-Ice Beam

Porygon2 is usually the token defensive normal type, blending in with Lickylicky and Kangaskhan, only being notable because of Trace and it attacking with Special moves. With this set, Porygon2 uses Agility, Download, and great coverage to sweep weakened or unprepared teams. at +2, this thing hits 476 Speed, outspeeding ScarfPrimeape, one of the fastest pokemon seen in the tier. After a Download boost, this thing has 463 Special Attack, further boosted by Life Orb. Tri Attack is a nice STAB move that cuts into anything that doesnt resist it. Thunderbolt + Ice Beam grant great coverage and mean that Porygon2 isnt easily walled.

To top all this off, Porygon2 has great bulk, meaning setting up isnt too hard, and it can afford to take a Priority move or two while sweeping (watch out for mach punch). Just take down / weaken specially bulky Pokemon such as Lickylicky and Regice before setting up as even with Download they'll still take your attacks without too much trouble.

Dunno if anyone has posted this guy before, but in a tier where there for relatively few Steel types, Dragonair is a good option for a wallbreaker.

Dragonair @ Life Orb
Mild / Shed Skin
172 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 84 Speed (thanks to shrang for the spread!)
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-ExtremeSpeed

This guy does really well if you can get him in. Dragonair is frail and not very fast, but faces practically no resists to his Dragon STAB attacks. ExtremeSpeed means he isnt useless against offensive teams, and Fire Blast hits Magneton if you predict its coming in, or Grass types if you dont want to lower your Special Attack or get locked into Outrage. Draco Meteor + Outrage is great for defensive Pokemon, while if something faster switches into your Meteor and survives, ExtremeSpeed usually finishes them off. The EV spread isnt perfect, but I've found max speed allows Dragonair to actually get to use something other than ExtremeSpeed with some consistency. The other spread I've used is 120 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 136 Speed Naive, which outspeed max Speed Relicanth, but that is a huge drop in speed, with the tradeoff of hitting harder.
 
Dragonair @ Life Orb
Naive / Shed Skin
56 Attack / 200 Special Attack / 252 Speed
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-ExtremeSpeed

This guy does really well if you can get him in. Dragonair is frail and not very fast, but faces practically no resists to his Dragon STAB attacks. ExtremeSpeed means he isnt useless against offensive teams, and Fire Blast hits Magneton if you predict its coming in, or Grass types if you dont want to lower your Special Attack or get locked into Outrage. Draco Meteor + Outrage is great for defensive Pokemon, while if something faster switches into your Meteor and survives, ExtremeSpeed usually finishes them off. The EV spread isnt perfect, but I've found max speed allows Dragonair to actually get to use something other than ExtremeSpeed with some consistency. The other spread I've used is 120 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 136 Speed Naive, which outspeed max Speed Relicanth, but that is a huge drop in speed, with the tradeoff of hitting harder.
Click to expand...
That's quite an inefficient spread. Max Speed doesn't let Dragonair outspeed much, other than Glaceon. A better spread is 172 Atk/252 SpA/84 Spe Mild, which lets you outspeed minimum Speed Meganium and Grumpig, pretty much the fastest walls you'll be facing, and the rest go into power to rip through shit. Damage calculations with my spread:

raco Meteor vs 252/0 Sandslash: 99.15% - 100%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Quagsire: 78.43% - 92.39%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Calm Walrein: 39.62% - 46.70%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Dusclops: 61.27% - 72.18%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Porygon2: 60.96% - 71.66%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Meganium: 59.62% - 70.33%
Outrage vs 252/0 Walrein: 45.52% - 53.77% (2HKO after Stealth Rock)
Outrage vs 252/0 Grumpig: 68.41% - 80.77%
Outrage vs 252/0 Flareon: 79.34% - 93.71% (OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Outrage vs 252/0 Politoed: 57.81% - 68.23%

Oh, and Hidden Power Ground usually does better in NU since a lot of the Steel types aren't weak to Fire (Probopass, Bastiodon), and most of them are 4x weak to Ground attacks anyway.
 
That sounds great Shrang, I'll definitely use your spread, thanks.

However, I do disagree with you about Fire Blast < HP Ground. Bastiodon and Probopass are very rarely used in NU and even so lack recovery, so Dragonair can pound away at them, or more likely have a teammate or teammates kill them off before bringing Dragonair in again. Fire Blast means you can attack stuff like Meganium and Vileplume without resorting to Dragon attacks with drawbacks, while still hitting the "common" steel: Magneton.
 
Here is a set I have been working on and is going to great effect.

Espeon @ Expert Belt
Modest Nature
252 Spe / 252 SpA
Moves:
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power (Ground)
- Substitute

It plays as a baiter luring in Dark types that atttempt to KO it, especially Skuntank. If you can get the sub on the switch, you can KO any Dark type, with the help of Expert Belt, and Hidden Power (Ground) for Skuntank and other pokemon.
 
SpecsEspeon is still my favourite. Plays like both SpecsLatias and SpecsJolt. You can easily use Signal Beam or Baton Pass to scout switchins, and if you catch Skuntank with Signal Beam, you get to play mind games with it (Since it 2HKOs).
 
I just tend to play around Specs Espeon by leaving my stuff in. They end up hitting me with coverage moves that don't KO, dry passing out pointlessly, or Psychicing and getting trapped.
 
Why are we even argueing over an Espeon set anyway? I'm quite sure that Espeon is going to BL2...

Anyway, the suspects are Espeon, Entei, Charizard and Magmortar. Predictions on the metagame with these pokemon removed?

1: Skuntank's useage will drop. As will Walrein and Grumpig.
2: We may be seeing other sweepers! Using things that are not STAB fire-type attacks!
3: NU may revert to a very similar time, of when there was a massive number of viable pokemon and tatics.
4: Stealth Rock will very quickly become less important, compared to going 5-6 up. Without the Fires, SR won't be hitting nearly as much of the metagame. We'll be seeing less SR leads, and anti SR leads [Floatzel] and start seeing things like Sharpedos with Focus Sash in the lead position more often.
5: If Regirock and Slowking drop, I will suggest they need to be tested. Slowking was borderline broken even with Espeon and the Fires, and Regirock can't be OHKO'ed by anything in the sand, allowing it to explode and ensure it will take something with it, should Regirock come in more or less free. Choice Band Hitmonchan manages ~90% with Close Combat, and that's more or less the strongest anything in NU is gonna hit it, except maybe Medicham. Regirock isn;t exactly bad on offense either, QuakeEdge off of Base 100 attack?
 
Why are we even argueing over an Espeon set anyway? I'm quite sure that Espeon is going to BL2...
Click to expand...

Because we're on Smogon, and the CAP ladder will not be implementing any changes the Project NU makes, so the ladder will still have Espeon, Entei (Not broken there), Magmortar and Charizard anyway.
 
Unless Doug decides to update the ladder based on Projct NU's vote. After all, the CAP server just hosts an NU ladder. The ladder is not affiliated with Smogon, in fact, Smogon said they won't be testing NU. It is under no obligation to follow the Smogon teirs to the letter.

Even then, most people who play NU on the CAP ladder know about what Project NU is doing, and most of them will cease to use the pokemon which are declared BL2 out of knowledge, even if the ladder dosen't directly ban them.
 
Hmm.. I think Entei's going to be a frequent encounter due to Flare Blitz , Extreme Speed and his high base attack and speed .
 
Vaz said:
Here is a set I have been working on and is going to great effect.

Espeon @ Expert Belt
Modest Nature
252 Spe / 252 SpA
Moves:
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power (Ground)
- Substitute

It plays as a baiter luring in Dark types that atttempt to KO it, especially Skuntank. If you can get the sub on the switch, you can KO any Dark type, with the help of Expert Belt, and Hidden Power (Ground) for Skuntank and other pokemon.
Click to expand...

I like this set a LOT <3
 
JadeX said:
Hmm.. I think Entei's going to be a frequent encounter due to Flare Blitz , Extreme Speed and his high base attack and speed .
Click to expand...

Entei has been. I've been frequently coming across an Entei on the opponent's team with Flare Blitz/ExtremeSpeed, and there's not a lot of options that would like taking something from him. Also, it's fairly bulky as well, and I've had to rely on Rhydon to help take it out. I'd be suprised if it didn't make it up to UU by now. But yes, I also agree SR will take less effect than nowadays, and with the Fire dominance gone and perhaps Espeon as well, we'd be seeing a lot less Skuntank and a lot more Grass and Bug.
 
It's not going up to UU because it's still outclassed by Arcanine. But the Life Orb set with Hidden Power Grass eats your Rhydon.
 
Entei is staying NU... but i find it funny that this Entei probably works better on OU than Arcanine (Sandstorm ruins Morning Sun, and Stone Edge, oh Stone Edge...)

Maybe it isn't, but hey.

Espeon could make UU this round. Maybe not. But if it goes we can expect Skuntank usage to stay the same or even getting more used.
You're calling me crazy now, right? Well, See it that way: Slowking is going down.
 
skuntank is the closest thing to a reliable espeopn killer there is, with STAB sucker punch and pursuit, which KOs espeon and can do alot of damage to the other frailer pokemon in NU.
 
coolking49 said:
skuntank is the closest thing to a reliable espeopn killer there is, with STAB sucker punch and pursuit, which KOs espeon and can do alot of damage to the other frailer pokemon in NU.
Click to expand...

Even then, it's not completely reliable. Espeon could use something silly like HP Ground on an expected Pursuit, or choose to flee during Sucker Punch. And yes, I've noticed some Entei running HP Grass. That makes me quite sad and relying on Probopass now for supporting.

Seriously, I really think Espeon will be leaving NU though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top