Personally I think the metagame needs Slowking to help out with the fire problem in this tier. Now Regirock is the most broken one in this trio. But both can be handled by a bulky grass =P. Now if we did have a suspect test it will probably be in a couple of months. Slowking itself is good for the metagame but sort of broken. Regirock is broken paired with slowking but it can be countered.
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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)
- Thread starter twash
- Start date
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The fact is we NEED Meganium (the set everyone's been ignoring) to counter RegiKing, but then EVERYONE will use Vileplume with it but Meganium kills any Vileplume set anyway.
Over. Centralized.
Over. Centralized.
If I make a NU team during the Regirock phase, I'm definitely going to be including CB Gabite with its ability to 2HKO the "RockKingPlume" combo. Some calcs:
vs. 252/0 Calm Slowking
58.1% - 68.8%
With a simple 252/0 spread, Slowking doesn't stand a chance.
vs. 252/152 Calm Slowking:
49% - 57.9%
I'm not sure how much defense people run/are planning on running, so I gave it a solid amount and it still is 2HKOed with SR.
vs. 252/0 Careful Regirock
56.6% - 67.6%
I assume a spread like this will become standard. Easy 2HKO without hazards.
vs. 252/252 Impish Regirock
46.2% - 54.4%
Just covering my bases. Even max/max+ Regirock is almost always 2HKOed with SR.
vs. 252/252 Bold Vileplume
42.9% - 50.8%
I don't think that Vileplume will be running max/max+ as standard, but it's going to take a little bit of prior damage before Gabite 2HKOs with EQ. It's a little disappointing, but no one cares about Vileplume.
Basically, Gabite uses Earthquake against Regirock and Magneton, and everything else is wrecked by Outrage, and if you're faced with the new fearsome core you can use Earthquake to 2HKO everything (with SR).
Also, I haven't really been paying to NU for a while. Has Medicham been unofficially banned? Because that's something that would devestate this core but I haven't seen it mentioned in a while.
vs. 252/0 Calm Slowking
58.1% - 68.8%
With a simple 252/0 spread, Slowking doesn't stand a chance.
vs. 252/152 Calm Slowking:
49% - 57.9%
I'm not sure how much defense people run/are planning on running, so I gave it a solid amount and it still is 2HKOed with SR.
vs. 252/0 Careful Regirock
56.6% - 67.6%
I assume a spread like this will become standard. Easy 2HKO without hazards.
vs. 252/252 Impish Regirock
46.2% - 54.4%
Just covering my bases. Even max/max+ Regirock is almost always 2HKOed with SR.
vs. 252/252 Bold Vileplume
42.9% - 50.8%
I don't think that Vileplume will be running max/max+ as standard, but it's going to take a little bit of prior damage before Gabite 2HKOs with EQ. It's a little disappointing, but no one cares about Vileplume.
Basically, Gabite uses Earthquake against Regirock and Magneton, and everything else is wrecked by Outrage, and if you're faced with the new fearsome core you can use Earthquake to 2HKO everything (with SR).
Also, I haven't really been paying to NU for a while. Has Medicham been unofficially banned? Because that's something that would devestate this core but I haven't seen it mentioned in a while.
Too bad a gentle breeze will OHKO Gabite, and he's easy to revenge kill.
I personally want to try DD Shellgon. I mean it's like Gabite but can actually switch moves :D. Then we have mixed + DD dragonair. All these NFE dragons. There so viable but at the same time not...
something
Regirock
Vileplume
Slowking
Gabite (to counter the trio)
Glalie (to counter Gabite)
Well, we've determined most NU teams now if Gabite is going to be the popular counter.
Regirock
Vileplume
Slowking
Gabite (to counter the trio)
Glalie (to counter Gabite)
Well, we've determined most NU teams now if Gabite is going to be the popular counter.
Well there will be variety in the tier since people forget more pokemon than just slowking and regirock joined the tier ;D. Also the 6th member would be a fire type, to counter meginuims.
I'm surprised, no talk about poliwrath? I'm pumped with it becoming NU!
Poliwrath is useless (unless RegiKing gets banned) and does nothing to counter RegiKingPlume. Glalie counters Meganium fine enough, and it nails Gabite.
It's obvious why you're so optimistic about this (look at your sig, it says it all), but it'll fail harder than P-Z/Cressy in UU.
It's obvious why you're so optimistic about this (look at your sig, it says it all), but it'll fail harder than P-Z/Cressy in UU.
Vileplume rapes it alive. Slowking is going to be running Psychic (to nail a possible Fighting-type/etc) unless it's stricken with retardation, considering Ice wouldn't be very smart to run (hai insert water type or Poliwrath, even though Vileplume covers that).
Regardless of Poliwrath, Slowking will be running Psychic. There's really only a handful of Pokemon immune or resistant to Psychic in NU, and there's already plenty of Water in NU as well. To be honest, I think Psychic the superior STAB option at least for this tiering.
Ice Beam/Psychic/HP Ground or Fighting/Slack Off
Okay well, we know Slowking's set.
HP Ground or Fighting to get a Magneton switch-in. Preferably Ground. And Surf over Psychic? With Vileplume and Poliwrath in the tier? You must be on shrooms.
On Poliwrath, it is the best Pokemon on my stall team right now, using Haze to cripple pretty much any set up sweepers in the tier. Sure it'll just bring in Slowking / Vileplume, but thats what the rest of a team is for. You can at least Toxic Slowking, and Poliwrath's typing makes it terrific against a bunch of the tier. (Rock type resistance is why im using Poliwrath instead of Politoed...makes a good Relicanth counter). The way Poliwrath doesnt roll over and die to HP Grass (which is actually pretty common) is why im not using Quagsire, even though Recover would be cool.
Poliwrath is a diversed pokemon. Great on offensive teams, with sub punch, bulk up, and belly drum. While good on stall teams, with encore, haze and hypnosis. Sure it's countered by slowking but so are certain fire types in the tier and they can still hustle their way through.
Also I can't do any calcs atm but would someone tell me what a +6 return do to a slowking with the spread of HP 252/Def 252 bold nature, after SR and 1 layer of spikes? Since sub belly drum poliwrath is pretty visible due to the lack of priority compared to the other tiers.
Also I can't do any calcs atm but would someone tell me what a +6 return do to a slowking with the spread of HP 252/Def 252 bold nature, after SR and 1 layer of spikes? Since sub belly drum poliwrath is pretty visible due to the lack of priority compared to the other tiers.
I'm glad to help ;). I calculated with Jolly nature.
+6 102 Base Power Return vs Max HP/Max Def Bold Slowking
70.30% -> 82.74%
In other words you can't even OHKO Slowking, which is a bit shocking. However with SR + Spikes there's a solid chance for OHKO though (however it may still survive).
Have fun with Sharpedo having his way with your team, or just as bad, DDCrawdaunt.
Thx =). Now if we ran adamant + salac I assume it will KO.
76.90% -> 90.61%
20,51% to OHKO with SR up alone, and 100% to OHKO with SR up + 1 set of Spikes. So yeah, in this case Adamant makes huge difference. However if you want to pull off SubSalac set, Poliwrath must have Jolly or it is really too slow.
Wait, why is Slowking going to run so much Defense? Are we trying to make the duo suck balls?
First of all, cut out the condescension-filled posts, they are getting old.
Second, please understand how STAB and Base Power works. If you run HP Fighting, you're going to hit Magneton for 140 Base Power...while STAB Surf will hit it with 142.5 Base Power. You need to also understand how coverage works. You want Surf and Psychic as your attacks because they get STAB and have near perfect neutral coverage (except on opposing Slowking, Sharpedo, and Shiftry). With Hidden Power or Ice Beam you lose a ton of coverage on many threats (specifically Fire...).
Additionally, you need to make sure you are hitting everything you need to hit. Yes, Sharpedo and Shiftry are dangerous....before you hit them with Thunder Wave. That's what that move is there for. Without Surf, you're going to get your ass handed to you by every single Fire-type. Magmortar will have field day on your team because you tried to surprise OHKO instead of settling for the ability to severely cripple it.
You also need Defense on Slowking so that you aren't destroyed by physical attackers, specifically Medicham.
In conclusion, Surf / Psychic / Thunder Wave / Slack Off will probably be the best moveset. I use a mixed Defense / Special Defense EV spread to survive specific attacks (like LO Adamant Head Smash from Relicanth).
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My main issue with this thread is that people are talking about Regirock / Slowking / ....Vileplume..? Why Vileplume over Meganium? I know it has that fancy move called Sleep Powder, but that isn't worth losing severely to many threats. Without Meganium you're going to get dominated by Relicanth, Rhydon, SD Gligar, SD Sandslash, <insert Pokemon with Earthquake or an unresisted physical STAB>. Meganium checks all of those threats and then some. What does that added Poison-typing get you? You check....opposing Grass-types better? Everything else Poison would help with is checked by Slowking or Regirock. It is definitely not worth losing an Earthquake resist / physical mon check.
Grass-types are fodder in this tier for the excess of Fire-types and Haunter. All you need is something to beat opposing LO Vileplume and you're really set against everything Vileplume would give you over Meganium.
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