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NU Discussion Thread (Mark II)

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Heysup said:
I think Earthquake is the best "last slot" move for Magmortar in NU simply because you only really lose out against Miltank which a) does not tend to stay NU and b) has pretty horrible SpD so you still do a decent amount of damage to it.
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Im kind of confused. Why are you bringing in Miltank? Its UU. Fighting moves hit Munchlax and Cradily specifically, but Munchy isnt that common (though Ive seen a couple today).

Grumpig has decent SDef and Thick Fat, and Magmortar only gets HP Dark/Ghost/Bug to hit it super effectively.
 
Abacus said:
Why isn't grumpig a magmortar counter again? I know grumpig sucks, but if you're desperate...
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Grumpig IS a Magmortar counter and its probably the best one out there right now, besides Regice, but thats SR weak. D:

It takes minimal damage from all its attacks, thick fat helps it resist stab fire blasts, Calm Mind even more so, Psychic destroys it, pack Signal Beam in there for crap like Espeon and Skuntank and your good to go. I've been wanting to try a ChestoRest version with CM/Psychic/Signal Beam/Rest but I feel like I would miss my T-Wave/Toxic support.
 
i have used grumpig to great sucess in countering about any magmortar, it work damn wonders(besides the fact it counter almost any fighting type).
 
Alan said:
Grumpig IS a Magmortar counter and its probably the best one out there right now, besides Regice, but thats SR weak. D:
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Wait, how is Regice a Magmortar counter ? .__. lol

Sp.def Entie actually works as a great Magmortar check (i had an ev spread that outsped too and Ko'd with SE). Grumpig and Flareon are still prolly the best though.
 
Why are NU players resorting to things like Flareon and Walrein when Ninetales is available? It has better SDEF than Flareon (taking HP into account), gets Calm Mind and Pain Split, and speed ties the fastest fire type attackers in the tier (zard and phlosion). Ninetales is still NU (for now) so take advantage of it...
 
FlareBlitz said:
Why are NU players resorting to things like Flareon and Walrein when Ninetales is available? It has better SDEF than Flareon (taking HP into account), gets Calm Mind and Pain Split, and speed ties the fastest fire type attackers in the tier (zard and phlosion). Ninetales is still NU (for now) so take advantage of it...
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- Flareon takes special attacks slightly better (65 HP + 110 SpD vs. 73 HP + 100 SpD)
- Flareon has Wish
- Flareon can use Lava Plume to burn physical attackers

Those are its 3 biggest selling points, Wish being the biggest factor. Pain Split isn't very reliable, all things considered.

EDIT: I actually ran the calcs before posting this, Flareon does in fact take less from special attacks than Ninetales.
 
FlareBlitz said:
Why are NU players resorting to things like Flareon and Walrein when Ninetales is available? It has better SDEF than Flareon (taking HP into account), gets Calm Mind and Pain Split, and speed ties the fastest fire type attackers in the tier (zard and phlosion). Ninetales is still NU (for now) so take advantage of it...
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I have to agree(despite being inexperienced) since this is common sense, really. It has, as you said, Calm Mind and Pain Split(as well as Hypnosis, Nasty Plot, Energy Ball etc).
 
meh, i gotta say both work well, flareon can take the hits better, but ninetales can outspeed and actually do some damage outside of toxic.
 
Their comparative tanking sets: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe w/Calm nature.

(HP-Atk-Def-SpA-SpD-Spe)
Flareon's stats: 334-266-156-227-350-166
Ninetales's stats: 350-169-186-199-328-236

Ninetales can take physical hits much better than Flareon, but it takes slightly more from special attacks. Flareon has a higher Special Attack stat, while Ninetales has a much higher speed stat. Flareon has Lava Plume, Ninetales has Will-o-Wisp. Flareon has Wish, Ninetales has Pain Split. Flareon has Heal Bell, Ninetales has Safeguard. Flareon has Yawn, Ninetales has Hypnosis. Flareon pretty much outclasses Ninetales in the tanking/support area, so Ninetales should be doing what it does better than Flareon-sweeping. I only play NU on Wifi, but I've definitely played enough with Flareon and Ninetales to know which roles they should focus on.
 
Alan said:
Grumpig IS a Magmortar counter and its probably the best one out there right now, besides Regice, but thats SR weak. D:
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...Regice? The one weak to Flamethrower? And has no relyable recovery?

I don't care if it is the third best special wall in the game, it's not a Magmortar counter at all.
 
Analogman said:
OK, you switch Grumpig in against Magmortar, then what? It does nothing back.

Yeah, must be desperate. Or must be using Mirror Coat.
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Or you could be using, you know, STAB psychic off a sp.att stat only a little lower than magmortars sp.def. Or just calm mind up to +6/+6 while it does nothing back. And chances are, you are desperate. Magmortar is a threat, and grumpig is one of the few who isn't screwed over by one of it's optional moves. It also does decently as an espeon counter, won't beat it 1 vs 1 but should weaken it enough for an easy revenge kill. But pursuit weak is bad. too bad he doesn't get will-o-wisp
 
Sir Azelf said:
Wait, how is Regice a Magmortar counter ? .__. lol

Sp.def Entie actually works as a great Magmortar check (i had an ev spread that outsped too and Ko'd with SE). Grumpig and Flareon are still prolly the best though.
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Oops, for some reason I thought that Fire Blast did less damage to Regice... I'm too lazy to calc, never thought of SDef Entei though...how well does it stack up against stuff like Espeon? Could try playing around with Entei as well.

Analogman said:
OK, you switch Grumpig in against Magmortar, then what? It does nothing back.

Yeah, must be desperate. Or must be using Mirror Coat.
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Thick Fat + Moderate HP stat and Above Average SpDef stat make Fire Blast do something like 30% from mixed set, resists Cross Chop, UnSTABbed T-Bolt and HP Grass do piss poor damage as well, calm mind up a bunch until you are at like +2 and I think Psychic 2HKO's Magmortar.
 
Yes, Grumpig walls Magmortar completely. However, it doesn't have recovery, ResTalk sets are screwed over by Pursuit and it isn't all that useful against most other threats.

Physically-Based MixPedo is awesome (Crunch/AJ/Hydro Pump/HP Grass).
 
I like Rest Talk CM Entei myself.

It stops many special fire pokes (not Ninetales or Flareon... though Flareon can't do shit) while being able to take dozens of hits from the physical side (115/85 are huge for the NU tier. You think Quagsire is bulky? ha!) And with Lava Plume it's likely that you'll burn something, and burn means you'll be nearly unbeatable on the phsical side.


It fears something like special Sharpedo, or Camerupt though.
 
Yeah, you can't really run Grumpig or you'll get SkunFUCKED by Skuntank, mostly every Psychic type gets hurt really bad by the usage of Skantank you can't ever be sure when to use Grumpig, unless you have something to take care of Skuntank (Which sounds stupid but only logical) Then sure I'm pretty sure Grumpig good work out well.
 
Actually, My grumpig beats Skuntank to death with counter. and reflect. so much fun. You don't mind if I ram 400 DAMAGE down your, throat, do ya, Skunky?
Oh, and then I rest off the damage. Counter recovery ftw!
 
hitmon64 said:
Actually, My grumpig beats Skuntank to death with counter. and reflect. so much fun. You don't mind if I ram 400 DAMAGE down your, throat, do ya, Skunky?
Oh, and then I rest off the damage. Counter recovery ftw!
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Rest/Reflect/Counter? What if it Taunts you?

In other news, Heysup posted our Warstory.
 
I know, but it works. I basically come in on something like magmortar, that generally comes with Skunk, and reflect on the switch. then counter, then rest, then enjoy a skuntank free battle. they usually don't taunt me, though I'd taunt myself if I was using skunky. they expect something futile, or a switch to take a reflect cushioned pursuit.
 
hitmon64 said:
I know, but it works. I basically come in on something like magmortar, that generally comes with Skunk, and reflect on the switch. then counter, then rest, then enjoy a skuntank free battle. they usually don't taunt me, though I'd taunt myself if I was using skunky. they expect something futile, or a switch to take a reflect cushioned pursuit.
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When I first battled you I was like "wait wat? o.o". haha
 
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