Official TPCI Pokemon Tournament 2009 | Congrats to all who participated!!

[micuat]

I know Lv.7? Smeagle with Detect. With Smeagle, Dusclops uses Trickroom and Gravity. At the first turn, Smeagle uses detect and Dusclops uses Trickroom, then Gravity and Smeagle's Dark Void. But this is experimental... IMO Trickroom with these cheap tricks can't beat rain dance nor goodstuffs. Also I don't think Imprison Azelf is a good strategy. It's just like using 3 pokemons against 4 heavy pokemons such as Metagross, Dusknoir, Snorlax etc.
Though, Trickroom with Sunny day or Abomasnow is very steady. There are some Lv.1 Swinubs. They have Endeavor and Snow Cloak. Disgusting ability.

By the way, in Japan, we had 3 tournaments.

11/23
Yamagata
1st Infernape/Metagross/Heatran/Latios
Shiga
1st Dusknoir/Latios/Snorlax/Metagross

11/24
Hokkaido
1st Kouki
Zapdos
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Sunny Day
Ludicolo
- Fake Out
- Ice Beam
Snorlax
- Fire Punch
- Double-edge
Heatran
- Explosion
- Heat Wave
- Protect

Hokkaido winner's team seems Rain Dance team but actually it's a Sunny Day team. So cool.

 

[TDS]

No Heatwave isnt strong enough to kill bronzong. Obi if smeargle protects, bronzong will die either way, and you can just kill smeargle the next turn because without trick room or fake out, it wont do much

 

[viperGTS]

We have item descriptions on the site for a reason.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/focus_sash

"Focus Sash will allow the holder to survive all hits of a multi-hit move like Fury Attack, provided the holder is at 100% health on the first hit."



Why wouldn't Smeargle be using Protect first turn? Seems like that's what a level 1 Smeargle ought to be doing in most situations.

Oh, sorry about that.... jeez i feel dumb. Im new to this though...

 

[Voltron]

The easiest way to stop bronzong smeargle is by fakeouting smeargle and have typhlosion eruption. I actually beat 2 smeargle/ bronzong combos at the showdown. I lost at top 16 at NY showdown becuase my eruption missed both pokemon even though it has 100% accuracy...

That's why a lot of them run Heat Proof instead of Levitate, at least this MOLF character does. Of course you could have a Earthquaker and Fake Outer instead but then it just becomes a guessing game.

We have item descriptions on the site for a reason.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/focus_sash

"Focus Sash will allow the holder to survive all hits of a multi-hit move like Fury Attack, provided the holder is at 100% health on the first hit."



Why wouldn't Smeargle be using Protect first turn? Seems like that's what a level 1 Smeargle ought to be doing in most situations.

Once again my reasoning is based of this MOLF party. It wouldn't protect in order to ensure Bronzong gets Trick Room into play. Well almost ensure. Not all Smeargle's will follow this strategy but I'm guessing almost all partenered with Bronzong will as he's kinda dead weight without Trick Room in play. Personally I agree with you. With all the things Smeargle can do why use it as a sacrifice to get Trick Room in?

Oh and boy do I feel stupid about Focus Sash and Multi-hit moves. You know what they say when you assume...

I know Lv.7? Smeagle with Detect. With Smeagle, Dusclops uses Trickroom and Gravity. At the first turn, Smeagle uses detect and Dusclops uses Trickroom, then Gravity and Smeagle's Dark Void. But this is experimental... IMO Trickroom with these cheap tricks can't beat rain dance nor goodstuffs. Also I don't think Imprison Azelf is a good strategy. It's just like using 3 pokemons against 4 heavy pokemons such as Metagross, Dusknoir, Snorlax etc.
Though, Trickroom with Sunny day or Abomasnow is very steady. There are some Lv.1 Swinubs. They have Endeavor and Snow Cloak. Disgusting ability.

By the way, in Japan, we had 3 tournaments.

11/23
Yamagata
1st Infernape/Metagross/Heatran/Latios
Shiga
1st Dusknoir/Latios/Snorlax/Metagross

11/24
Hokkaido
1st Kouki
Zapdos
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Sunny Day
Ludicolo
- Fake Out
- Ice Beam
Snorlax
- Fire Punch
- Double-edge
Heatran
- Explosion
- Heat Wave
- Protect

Hokkaido winner's team seems Rain Dance team but actually it's a Sunny Day team. So cool.

My thoughts with Imprison Azelf was that it would be an Explosion team since Protect would also be Imprisoned. Also that Sunny Day team is pretty cool.

No Heatwave isnt strong enough to kill bronzong. Obi if smeargle protects, bronzong will die either way, and you can just kill smeargle the next turn because without trick room or fake out, it wont do much

What I think Obi is getting at is rather then run the common Smeargle Bronzong strat do something different. I'm thinking and typing at the same time now what if Bronzong had the Focus Sash and Smeargle uses Protect to avoid the Fake Out Bronzong survives say Eruption and Trick Rooms now Smeargle can Dark Void and Bronzong attack or Smeargle endure while Bronzong explodes and then Bring in something with a slow Fake Out to let Smeargle Dark Void or Endeavor. Obimode was damn good before Trick Room so I'm sure it could still be without it too.

 

[LatentSanity]

Fake Out is pretty solid, but I feel like people rely on it a bit too heavily to get their strategies to work properly/disrupt opposing strategies.

That in mind, here's the team I was pondering. I'm not sure exactly how they should be EVed/Natured, for the most part, as I've got little experience with the Doubles metagame.

Dragonite @ Damp Rock/Life Orb
Hasty?, Inner Focus
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Waterfall
- Dragon Claw

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Mild, Swift Swim
28 Atk, 252 SpA, 228 Spe?
- Waterfall
- Hydro Pump
- Signal Beam
- Draco Meteor

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Jolly, Levitate
252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 HP
- Imprison
- Protect
- Explosion
- Zen Headbutt

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Wonder Guard
252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Dig
- Shadow Sneak

The main goal is to get the counters to Shedinja out of the way ASAP, the best way of which that I could come up with is a Rain team. The main non-Fire-type threats to Shedinja in doubles are Sandstorm, Air Slash from Togekiss, Stone Edge from various attackers (Rhyperiors from Trick Room teams are sure to be one of the more common ones), the occasional Rock Slide, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch. Fire moves are freaking everywhere, so there's really no need to try and list all the Fire moves that'll be flying around. Heat Wave, Fire Punch, Fire Blast and Flamethrower are sure to be the ones to watch out for, though, since they're either a common Doubles threat or omnipresent attacks that'll be on random dudes.

Rhyperior, Heatran, Typhlosion, Infernape and other common carriers of threatening moves go down pretty easily, but the two priority moves that hit Shedinja are a bit more of an issue, particularly since the major carrier of these is on opposing rain teams in the form of Toxicroak. SubPunch Toxicroak with Stone Edge seems like it's MADE to take out Shedinja, so I'd be relying on Azelf to take it down via Zen Headbutt. Only other thing I'd have to worry about on opposing Rain Dance teams would be random Toxic on dudes, but that shouldn't really be such a big issue, particularly with Lum Berry in place.

Still unsure if Shedinja is solid enough in a doubles format that is sure to have random fire moves on guys due to heavy Bronzong/Metagross use, though. Fun Fact, though: A Crit +2 Dig will OHKO even the bulkiest Metagross, while a regular +2 Dig OHKOs any Heatran.

Other things I'm trying to figure out are Lum Berry/Focus Sash for Shedinja, and if the latter, what to use on Azelf, as well as EV spreads for Dragonite/Kingdra, and whether I should run Thunder for use after Rain Dance or Fire Blast to try and take out enemy Bronzong.

 

[Shinryu]

@ above guy: Only Dragonite that can be used is the Lv 50 TRU one, so it has to be Mild.

Also, I like the Hokkaido guy's approach, people forget that Ludicolo also makes a fun Sunny Day user, with Solar Beam and stuff.

 

[viperGTS]

I would just like to say right now that i caught a pwnsome hasty azelf with aweosme IVs!
21/25/3/27/13/29
Im so happy!
@LatentSanity, who are your 2 lead pokemon? Maybe we could test our teams when they are finished....
Azelf@Focus Sash
Hasty Nature
Evs not decided
-Flamethrower(benefits from sunny day,which is what my team will be based around)
-Taunt(prevent pokemon from setting up_
-Explosion(Main move to finish when its done)
-I dont know what to put here.
So here is what i thought of using my azelf for. i dont know what the last move should be, but im confident with having the other 3 moves.

 

[LatentSanity]

@ above guy: Only Dragonite that can be used is the Lv 50 TRU one, so it has to be Mild.

Right, completely forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. That probably means the moveset would have to be Surf/Thunder/Dragon Pulse, then.

I was also considering Lucario to set up Rain, since he's the only other Inner Focus pokemon I could see myself using besides Alakazam. The fact that he gets a pile of priority moves feels pretty useful, though I was upset to find that Max Atk Life Orb Bullet Punch still doesn't OHKO Weavile. Still not worth running Vacuum Wave on a physical set for it, though, since I'd need to fit in 68 EVs and a neutral nature to make it a sure OHKO on Min/Min Weavile. Stone Edge still kills him nicely, so there's no need to go all crazy trying to eke out an OHKO.

I'd probably end up with something like:
Lucario @ Expert Belt
Adamant, Inner Focus
252 Atk/232 Spe/24 HP
- Rain Dance
- Extremespeed
- Stone Edge
- Cross Chop

EVed to outspeed Smeargle and most bulky Zapdos (which are OHKOed by Crit Stone Edge, or 2HKOed by it otherwise)

-Flamethrower(benefits from sunny day,which is what my team will be based around)
-Taunt(prevent pokemon from setting up_
-Explosion(Main move to finish when its done)
-I dont know what to put here.
So here is what i thought of using my azelf for. i dont know what the last move should be, but im confident with having the other 3 moves.

Last move would probably be either a screen (I might go with Reflect to help handle enemy Explosions which will likely happen after you taunt their setup 'zong or somesuch) or Psychic for STAB.

And I really don't know if I'll actually end up making this team, but thanks for the offer. :P

 

[viperGTS]

Right, completely forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. That probably means the moveset would have to be Surf/Thunder/Dragon Pulse, then.

I was also considering Lucario to set up Rain, since he's the only other Inner Focus pokemon I could see myself using besides Alakazam. The fact that he gets a pile of priority moves feels pretty useful, though I was upset to find that Max Atk Life Orb Bullet Punch still doesn't OHKO Weavile. Still not worth running Vacuum Wave on a physical set for it, though, since I'd need to fit in 68 EVs and a neutral nature to make it a sure OHKO on Min/Min Weavile. Stone Edge still kills him nicely, so there's no need to go all crazy trying to eke out an OHKO.

I'd probably end up with something like:
Lucario @ Expert Belt
Adamant, Inner Focus
252 Atk/232 Spe/24 HP
- Rain Dance
- Extremespeed
- Stone Edge
- Cross Chop

EVed to outspeed Smeargle and most bulky Zapdos (which are OHKOed by Crit Stone Edge, or 2HKOed by it otherwise)

Last move would probably be either a screen (I might go with Reflect to help handle enemy Explosions which will likely happen after you taunt their setup 'zong or somesuch) or Psychic for STAB.

And I really don't know if I'll actually end up making this team, but thanks for the offer. :P

Thanks! Good luck on your team :D

 

[Haku16]

question : if i use taunt during a double battle will both the opponents pokemon get affected?

cause if so this would be my counter towards trickroom:

my counter against trickroom is my raindance team, where you bring out gyrados and Ludicolo. the ludicolo does raindance while gyrados goes for taunt.

IDK this is some randomness ill do if it could work. =D

 

[PapaCAP]

question : if i use taunt during a double battle will both the opponents pokemon get affected?

cause if so this would be my counter towards trickroom:

my counter against trickroom is my raindance team, where you bring out gyrados and Ludicolo. the ludicolo does raindance while gyrados goes for taunt.

IDK this is some randomness ill do if it could work. =D

I believe you can choose to target any one pokemon on the field, not two. So it'd be like using flamethrower or tackle.

 

[Haku16]

I believe you can choose to target any one pokemon on the field, not two. So it'd be like using flamethrower or tackle.

darn >.<

oh well either way ill find out something.

-thanks

Edit: if it does work the way you say it does then ill do the same thing except Ludicolo does fakeout on bronzng

 

[Chirnobyl]

Fake Out is relied on quite a bit.. the first person I battled last time had a Fake Out Weavile open with Agiligross, unfortunately I open with Gengar and Dusknoir, so that bars Fake Out not from Kanghaskhan..., I mean I'm still trying to think of an open that can fully shut down my starting two... which all I can think of is Scarfed/Lum/Chesto Dark Void Smeargle...

 

[Haku16]

Fake Out is relied on quite a bit.. the first person I battled last time had a Fake Out Weavile open with Agiligross, unfortunately I open with Gengar and Dusknoir, so that bars Fake Out not from Kanghaskhan..., I mean I'm still trying to think of an open that can fully shut down my starting two... which all I can think of is Scarfed/Lum/Chesto Dark Void Smeargle...

yeah well my only fear is trickroom and thats it so until the tourny ill be thinking of many different senerios.

 

[skarm]

Well... well... well... if we do get Canadians in this one I'll be sure to play just to beat the pants off Paul. :)

 

[Haku16]

this is a question to all...is any one preparing for the tourny now by having double battle's from now until platinum comes out? cause im having a bunch of them with freinds. im mostly making teams from what i hear and read on this thread. im currently asking friends to give my pokemon the tutor moves i need to them out.

EX.
Zapdos with HeatWave

Edit: this only an example. can this work?

this is a counter to Trick room with the first two pokemon you send out.

ME: Gyrados lv.50 and Ludicolo lv.50
HIM: Bronzong lv.50 and Smeargle lv.1

Gyrados does Taunt on Smearlge and Ludicolo does Fake out on Bronzong
next turn Gyrados does Taunt on Bronzong and Ludicolo does raindance. over all no Trick room for a while and smeargle has to be switched cause it cant use attacks, you get your raindance out and your opponent is stuck for a while. hopefully you can kill him off fast.

 

[POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN]

No,, because if the Smeargle player is suspecting a Taunt(at least, if he is a good player), he will Follow Me and rawing both the Taunt and the Fake out to itself, thereby guaranteeing Bronzong's set up of Trick Room. Then next turn Smeargle will Endeavour one of your guys at the very least.

 

[Haku16]

No,, because if the Smeargle player is suspecting a Taunt(at least, if he is a good player), he will Follow Me and rawing both the Taunt and the Fake out to itself, thereby guaranteeing Bronzong's set up of Trick Room. Then next turn Smeargle will Endeavour one of your guys at the very least.

but doesnt taunt go first ?

 

[lati0s]

no follow me has +3 priority

 

[viperGTS]

this is a question to all...is any one preparing for the tourny now by having double battle's from now until platinum comes out? cause im having a bunch of them with freinds. im mostly making teams from what i hear and read on this thread. im currently asking friends to give my pokemon the tutor moves i need to them out.

EX.
Zapdos with HeatWave

Edit: this only an example. can this work?

this is a counter to Trick room with the first two pokemon you send out.

ME: Gyrados lv.50 and Ludicolo lv.50
HIM: Bronzong lv.50 and Smeargle lv.1

Gyrados does Taunt on Smearlge and Ludicolo does Fake out on Bronzong
next turn Gyrados does Taunt on Bronzong and Ludicolo does raindance. over all no Trick room for a while and smeargle has to be switched cause it cant use attacks, you get your raindance out and your opponent is stuck for a while. hopefully you can kill him off fast.

Im trying to get a team ready. so far i have azelf, but i have a good plan to stop the bronzong and smeargle combination. I dont want to reveal it yet though.

 

[KrackerJack]

Any suggestions on what to add on a rain dance double team for killing the brozong and smeargle combo?

 

[viperGTS]

Any suggestions on what to add on a rain dance double team for killing the brozong and smeargle combo?

You could combine a pokemon that uses fake out, along with someone else to use what ever move, like surf, and then smeargle will die. But bronzong will still set up its trick room, since it cant die from anything(even supeer effective moves), unless you get a critical hit.

 

[BlakBlastoise]

Aqua jet might work also. In the rain it hits pretty hard even if it's only 40 base power.

 

[POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN]

but doesnt taunt go first ?

No, follow Me goes before Taunt. ;)

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/move_priority

that link explains everything

 

[LatentSanity]

Aqua jet might work also.

This. Aqua Jet on Smeargle will do the job, providing you also attack Smeargle with your second pokemon on that same turn. (If you don't, and Smeargle Spore/Dark Voids your Aqua Jet user, you lose both of your dudes pretty readily.)

Even if Smeargle Fake Outs the non-Aqua Jet attacker, the first Aqua Jet triggers the Sash, and the second kills him even during Trick Room, as the only priority move Smeargle ever carries beyond Fake Out is Extremespeed, which will never OHKO the Aqua Jet user. This still leaves you open to Bronzong exploding on your two surviving dudes on the turn you kill Smeargle, though, and if Smeargle Protects that turn, you're down two guys, and still don't have rain set up.

If the Aqua Jet user is Sharpedo, however, things get a bit trickier. Sharpedo outspeeds a Smeargle Fake Out, and will leave Smeargle alive by the edge of his sash, and the Rough Skin damage will kill him if he attacked Sharpedo at all, be it a poorly-chosen Fake Out or an Endeavor. Rather than letting the Zong/Smeargle player go on autopilot like it wants to, pretty much every turn that Sharpedo is alive is a pure guessing game on their part which ends with them losing the game if they guess wrong.

So the absolute best a rain team has against Smeargle/Bronzong lead without running Imprison/Trick Room is probably something like this:

Sharpedo @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash?

- Taunt
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Protect/Crunch​

The right move is pretty much always to Taunt Bronzong, since the only move that lets 'Zong get Trick Room off without losing Smeargle is a Follow Me, which not many people run, generally favoring Fake Out.

Crunch lets you hit Lati@s, Celebi and Slowbro (in descending order of probable appearances) SE rather than being resisted, and also scores SE hits on assorted Psychics and Ghosts that are sure to see play (Dusknoir, Azelf, Gengar, Alakazam (because of Skill Swap teams or just for Inner Focus abuse)), though under rain, Waterfall will usually do the job against anything but the first three mentioned. Protect lets you survive Bronzong Explosion if you taunt him successfully, and allows for, overall, a higher level of opportunities for prediction if you find that to be one of your strong suits.

The only issue this poses is that against anyone NOT playing a Trick Room team, Sharpedo is vastly worse than other options for that lead slot: Kingdra, for example.

So basically this is only for those matches when you are absolutely sure that they're running a 'Zong/Smeargle Trick Room start, and decide to switch your team up pre-match to deal with it.

And for the record, this is 100% theorymon, so it might not work nearly as well as it looks on paper.