Project OM Mashup Megathread

:melmetal: STAAABmons announcement!:inteleon:

As I mentioned in my previous post, Tinted Lens is something the council has been looking at recently. This is a bit unprecedented as afaik no AAA mashup has banned/or suspected an ability that wasn't banned by AAA previously, but the council feels that TL gets enough of a boost in STAAAB to make it potentially problematic.

The issue with TL is that it removes a core facet of mons - type matchups. Slapping tinted lens on a powerful choiced wallbreaker with high BP (100+ BP) moves usually means you are very likely to score a kill whenever you get it in on a favorable matchup, as pretty much nothing can avoid a 2hko. While in AAA most high BP moves have clear downsides and are not very widely distributed, STAAAB fixes that issue and lets (for example) any Fire or Water type use Eruption/Spout which combined with TL usually means u gotta run immunity abilities or you're losing a mon, barring special cases. This ability has lead us to ban 2 mons already (Keld abused TL/Psea, Chand abused TL/Deso) and it's possible that they would have been managable if TL was banned instead. In the current meta, the two best abusers are Tinted Band Melmetal and Tinted Specs Inteleon, both managable in the absence of TL (altho arguably even with TL). That's not all however, Close Combat, Sunsteel Strike, Psystrike and Moonblast etc. are all moves that benefit highly from TL and make it very hard for anything to tank 2 specs/band boosted hits. This is why the council has decided to suspect test Tinted Lens in STABmons + Almost Any Ability!

We will be running 8 suspect tours, starting tomorrow. The suspect tour schedule is as follows:

Tuesday 5pm GMT (1pm GMT-4) hosted by me (The Number Man)
Wednesday 5pm GMT (1pm GMT-4) hosted by ice-master-523
Thursday 9pm GMT (5pm GMT-4) hosted by ice-master-523
Friday 5pm GMT (1pm GMT-4) hosted by me
Saturday 11am GMT (7am GMT-4) hosted by me
Saturday 9pm GMT(5pm GMT-4) hosted by ice-master-523
Sunday 5pm GMT (1pm GMT-4) hosted by me
Sunday 9pm GMT(5pm GMT-4) hosted by ice-master-523

Voting reqs will be given to the winner of each of these tours. In the case of repeat reqs, the other finalist will be given reqs. In the case where both finalists already have reqs, the two semifinalists will be given a chance to play a game for 3rd place, with the winner of the game getting reqs. Reqs will not be passed further down. This is still subject to change however, if we feel that not enough users are getting reqs we might relax the requirements a bit.

If you cannot make any of these tours but want to try getting reqs please notify us and we will consider adding a tour or changing the times.
 
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Going to throw some STABmon Doubles that I've built so hopefully someone will actually join the roomtour. Note that I didn't playtest any of them, but I did make sure that it would seem like it could be viable in Doubles and not putting Diamond Storm. Therefore I will gladly accept any changes that can improve those teams.

:incineroar: :keldeo: :dragapult: :togekiss: :tsareena: :type null: or :incineroar: :keldeo: :dragapult: :type null: :whimsicott: :darmanitan-galar:
Incineroar @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 144 Def / 116 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Pyro Ball
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Aura Sphere
- Muddy Water
- Protect

Dragapult @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Tsareena (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 56 SpD / 112 Spe
Impish Nature
- Drum Beating
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Sleep Powder

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 120 HP / 132 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Air Slash
- Tailwind
- Protect

Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Follow Me
- Transform
- Extreme Speed
- Recover

Incineroar @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 144 Def / 116 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Pyro Ball
- Knock Off
- Parting Shot

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Aura Sphere
- Muddy Water
- Protect

Dragapult @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Dragon Darts
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Follow Me
- Transform
- Extreme Speed
- Recover

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Tailwind
- Sleep Powder
- Spiky Shield

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- U-turn

Everything changes when the fire nation attacked. This team is based on a basic premise that is Grass + Fire+ Water core. Also to transform into your own Dragapult or opposing TR setter to check them. Tsareena seems good based on what I've used so far after Dynamax's banned, Drum Beating for additional speed control and Sleep Powder can disrupt the opponent.

The alt version has Togekiss and Tsareena replaced by Whimsicott and Galarian Darmanitan. I feel like Whimiscott can act as a stepping stone to understand the fundamental of Doubles with its Prankster-boosted Tailwind and also having Sleep Powder. And I just slap Darma for no reason. It's very prone to being revenge-killed, especially to Melmetal's Bullet Punch.

Other Options:
Type: Null can replace any of its moves with Whirlwind to phaze Melmetal away.
Tsareena can have her Drum Beating replaced by Leaf Blade or Wood Hammer.
Incineroar can have Pyro Ball replaced by Will-O-Wisp to check Melmetal. Or you could go with the classic Flare Blitz.

:type null: :kyurem: :weezing-galar::dragapult: :rotom-wash: :melmetal:
Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Fake Out
- Follow Me
- Transform
- Feint

Kyurem @ Throat Spray
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Protect

Weezing-Galar @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Moonlight
- Taunt

Dragapult @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Dragon Darts
- U-turn

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 120 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Volt Switch
- Tailwind
- Protect

Melmetal @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 156 HP / 120 Atk / 12 Def / 220 SpD
Brave Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Protect

This is a team I used to experiment with Galarian Weezing, which turned out to be good. Dragon Dance Kyurem is the worst thing you can ever do in Doubles, so I decided to go for Clangorous Soul instead. It didn't turn out too well than I expected. Not much else to say really, though you could opt to customize Rotom Wash for your own liking.
 

Rose

formerly WrathoftheLeopard
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Broken Ghost Spam Bulky Offense

:dragapult: :gengar: :cobalion: :primarina: :snorlax: :rotom-heat:
Click on sprites for importable!

I am submitting this team as a sample for the STABmons and Almost Any Ability metagame!
It utilises possibly the two most broken Pokemon in the metagame, Dragapult and Gengar, to effectively utilize Choice items and threaten teams with Adaptability boosted dual STABs.
It also features the prominent defensive Normal-Fairy-Steel core of Snorlax, Primarina and Cobalion which greatly improves this team’s ability to handle opposing Dragapult (pivot into Cobalion to scout the move and set, them switch into the appropriate immunity).

I’ll add replays eventually I swear.
 
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LC AAA Role Compedium is now up!

:ss/pawniard: LC AAA Role Compedium :ss/pawniard:

1. Offensive Attackers
Adaptability (Physical):
:pawniard::carvanha::diglett-alola::onix:
Adaptability (Special): :magnemite::croagunk::snover::chinchou::frillish:
Desolate Land: :ponyta:
Electric Surge: :elekid::chinchou:
Magic Guard: :archen::ponyta::onix:
Primordial Sea: :wingull::staryu:
Psychic Surge: :abra::ponyta-galar:
Sheer Force: :staryu::ponyta-galar::elekid:
Skill Link: :sandshrew-alola::axew::anorith:
Technician: :sandshrew-alola:
Tinted Lens: :mienfoo::salandit:
Tough Claws: :mienfoo::farfetch

2. Defensive Role
Regenerator:
:pawniard::ferroseed::mareanie::foongus::spritzee::munchlax:
Dauntless Shield: :mareanie::spritzee::hippopotas:
Flash Fire: :ferroseed::pawniard::foongus:
Prankster: :mareanie::foongus:

3. Speed-boosted Abilities
Surge Surfer: :cubone::magnemite:
Unburden: :lickitung:
Swift Swim: :krabby::frillish:


4. Priority User:
Triage:
:pancham::spritzee:
Grassy Glide: :grookey:
Sucker Punch: :pawniard:

5 : Set-up Sweepers
Swords Dance:
:pawniard::grookey::pancham::cubone::sandshrew-alola::drilbur:
Nasty Plot::spritzee::croagunk:
Calm Mind: :spritzee::ponyta-galar:
Bulk Up: :timburr:
Dragon Dance: :onix:
Belly Drum::lickitung:
Shell Smash: :omanyte::dwebble:

6. Hazard Setter and Removal
Stealth Rock:
:pawniard::ferroseed::onix::dwebble::hippopotas:
Spikes: :ferroseed::dwebble:
Toxic Spikes: :mareanie:
Defog: :timburr::wingull:
Rapid Spin: :staryu::drilbur::sandshrew-alola:
 
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Icemaster

Few will truly understand.
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
RBTT Champion
The third suspect tour has completed with the based ice-master-523 getting reqs. Was a great finals match, gg https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1110615045. Thanks NOC for screenshotting the bracket.
the_brackets.png


Voting no ban on Tinted Lens. Right now I simply don't think it is potent enough to ban; the two main abusers have hefty drawbacks. Melmetal firstly doesn't have the speed to deliver the 2HKO on the switch and in many MUs (vs well prepared foes) is deadweight - vs HO, a magnet puller, a stamina/rocky helm pokemon, intim/dauntless walls etc. It is a one trick pony and that can be abused - rocky helmet severely punishes the use of DIB and if a proper check to it is in the game melmetal is oftentimes useless as coverage options such as sunsteel/gyro ball/heavy slam/tpunch/eq (more pp), largely don't help it break past these mons. While potent with a magpuller, I think that speaks more for steelworker/melmetal in general.

Inteleon is the other main abuser and in some cases more dangerous. It requires a great deal more team support - functioning mainly on rain and in cahoots with mons which annoy common desolanders such as rotom-heat, and with hazard removal to have the full water spout treatment. Outside of rain builds, this mon is pretty mu fishy imo, forced out by dragapult/noivern and greatly losing efficacy after a single rocks chip
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Inteleon Water Spout (131 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Both mons only have one stab and so remain one trick ponies, and so far tinted lens has not been used to very great effect on anything else so I have no reason to vote ban right now. Maybe my opinion will change the more suspect tours I enter.
 
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Tranquility

Kuru~Kuru
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Hi y'all, with the recent STAAAB forum tour coming to an end, I decided to make a code for a potential STAAAB UU based off the usage stats by Roldski32. The cut off I decided to do was about 8.62% or 10 uses in the tour.

/tour new [Gen 8] STABmons, elimination
/tour rules !Obtainable Abilities, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Shedinja, 2 Ability Clause, -Arcanine + V-create, -Carkol + V-create, -Centiskorch + V-create, -Chandelure + V-create, -Charizard + V-create, -Charmander + V-create, -Charmeleon + V-create, -Cinderace + V-create, -Coalossal + V-create, -Darmanitan + V-create, -Darumaka + V-create, -Flareon + V-create, -Growlithe + V-create, -Heatmor + V-create, -Incineroar + V-create, -Lampent + V-create, -Litten + V-create, -Litwick + V-create, -Ninetales + V-create, -Ponyta + V-create, -Raboot + V-create, -Rapidash + V-create, -Reshiram + V-create, -Rotom + V-create, -Salandit + V-create, -Salazzle + V-create, -Scorbunny + V-create, -Silvally + V-create, -Sizzlipede + V-create, -Torkoal + V-create, -Torracat + V-create, -Turtonator + V-create, -Vulpix + V-create, -Hypnosis, -Sing, -Sleep Powder, +Darmanitan-Galar, +Darmanitan, -Chandelure, -Keldeo, -Terrakion, -Zeraora, -Dragapult, -Kommo-o, -Corviknight, -Golisopod, -Rotom-Heat, -Sylveon, -Snorlax, -Tyranitar, -Type: Null, -Gengar, -Mandibuzz, -Togekiss, -Hydreigon, -Mew, -Celebi, -Hippowdon, -Cobalion, -Jirachi, -Inteleon, -Melmetal, -Primarina, -Toxapex, -Kyurem, -Noivern
/tour name [Gen 8] STABmons + Almost Any Ability UU

Some potential threats/top mons in the tier:

:darmanitan:/:cinderace: - Really strong under desolate land with pyro ball and other coverage moves, but can be managed with Flash Fire

:Obstagoon: -Going to be really good on Balance with no Kommo-o and Cobalion as well as Fairies in Sylveon and Primarina. Tons of utility with parting shot and knockoff plus potential rapid spinner(?) that beats ghosts.
 
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The fourth STAAAB suspect tour has finished - won by me. Bracket:
sustour 4.png

finals replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1111104306

I'd like to take this post as an opportunity to show everyone a set that has been tearing teams apart lately - case in point, the above replay (most of the games end this way in fact, it's just a matter of chipping checks into range). MGLO cobalion is probably nothing new to most people as it's a set that has been used in the past but it seems we overlooked the synergy between No Retreat and Volt Switch. The drawback of being trapped means nothing when you can fast volt out of bad matchups, as long as you dont expose yourself to Scarf Pult Spectral thief or something similar. And when you take away the drawback, NR is an amazing move - even a one time omniboost that you don't have to pay life for easily puts you in a dominant position. I suspect the reason this does so well is the prevalence of fairy/normal/steel cores (that are a response to dragapult) as it absolutely tears them apart with its stab moves.
:cobalion:
cobalt lion (Cobalion) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 100 Def / 216 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- No Retreat
- Body Press
- Steel Beam
- Volt Switch

As for Tinted Lens, I'm honestly not sure yet. It's extremely frustrating to switch into a resist, have it take 60% from a "resisted" move and realise that your defensive backbone has just been shattered because you decided to rely on type matchups instead of blanking possible nukes with immunity abilities and intimidate/dauntless shield. The existence of Tinted wallbreakers forces defensive cores to try to compress into blanket physical + blanket special checks like for example Intimidate Hippo + Av Goodra (+ice resist) cause its the only way to effectively stop the mons that abuse tinted. That in turn means people start stacking multipliers (for example, steelworker Melm over tinted) or using sets that break these blanket cores again (one of them being Steel/Fighting MGLO wallbreakers coincidentally), which i guess turns into a self-correcting cycle. But the core issue I'd say is that it's hard to be prepared for both types of wallbreakers, which makes the meta volatile and somewhat matchup based (not that it's unwinnable most of the time, just less forgiving). I've said this before and I'm gonna say it again, I'd like this meta to be balanced or "healthy" but I also don't wanna dilute it too much, because it probably won't be very fun if we ban every wallbreaker with 110+ spa/atk and speed. With that in mind, I'm gonna be monitoring the way these next suspect tours turn out to help me make my decision.
 
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Announcement

Dragapult is now banned from STABmons, and this will affect STABmons-based Mashups. As for STAAABmon's case, it will probably not gonna be affected due to ongoing Tinted Lens suspect test, but its up to the STAAABmons council to decide on that, just saying this in case of the tour code.
 
The fifth suspect tour was held earlier today. Grats to manu 11 for winning and getting reqs and also thank you for screenshotting the bracket for me.
sustour 5.png


finals replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1111516877

EDIT: the 6th suspet tour has just finished. Grats to Binacleisthebest for getting reqs.
sustour 6.png


finals replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1111783562

EDIT2: the 7th suspect tour has finished. Finals was won by Real PHeal Spheal. Gz on getting reqs for the suspect test!
Shoutouts to NOC Unlucky 13 for the bracket screenshot.

sustour 7.png


replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1112248647

Also a reminder, the next and final suspect tour is in 2 and a half hours!

EDIT: no bracket cuz i was asleep at the time, but Nakeeb won the last suspect tour. GZ!
replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8stabmons-1112353212
 
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Tan Binted (Tyranitar) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Accelerock
- Head Smash/Stone Edge

(EV spread is bad and was made on a whim)
but yeah this guy is a good reason for why we need to ban tinted. Knock is insanely spammable, accelerock is almost unresisted now and nabs surprise cheese kills against stuff and headsmash, while causing big recoil that semi-forces you to runit with wishpassing, just outright deletes anything that isn't named cobalion or max health intim hippo without any prediction necessary. (and eq still manhandles coba just fine)

Head Smash calcs:
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tyranitar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Intimidate Hippowdon: 176-208 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tyranitar Head Smash vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 302-356 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tyranitar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Kommo-o: 264-312 (74.5 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ferrothorn doesn't come in either, as ff is outsped and triage usually dies before it hits the field:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Tyranitar Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

I do not see how a breaker with this power that does not need to predict anything if your opponent doesn't have one of exactly two pokemon on his team could be considered acceptable, and I also think most of us would agree that the issue here isn't Tyranitar.
 
I'm voting no ban on tinted lens, I can see how it can be problematic, but I feel like there are enough purely bulk pokemon and immunities to serve as a counter-play for the tinted lens abusers like Inteleon and what not. There are even regen pokemon that can pivot and still be fine after they switch out since they heal. Only pokemon that is hella hard to switch into with tinted lens is melmetal... from my experience, but then again that pokemon is slow and regen mons like cobalion can force it out.

(keep in mind I have minimal knowledge on this tier)
 
As much as I might end up regretting this, I'm going to vote DNB Tinted Lens.
People have already been adjusting to TL by bringing stuff like Intim hippo and Stamina buzz (which coincidentally check half the physical attackers anyway), so I feel like the metagame has room to self-correct when Tinted breakers get out of hand.

With that said, don't forget to vote
PociekMociek
Trade
Binacleisthebest
manu 11

EDIT, current votes:
Spheal - Ban
Nakeeb - DNB
Ice - DNB
Me - DNB
Trade - DNB
 
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PociekMociek

is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
OMPL Champion
So because I don't know how to start my tinted lens opinion let's just look at it together. Tinted Lens: "The Pokémon can use "not very effective" moves to deal regular damage." In a vacuum this sounds really broken, it lets you click your 120 bp STAB move button with barely any repercussions, resists no longer resist your shiny button and just die, only thing that really stops you is hard immunes. Everyone knows that theory is never the same as practice, so let's look at TL abusers in the current meta using The Number Man's VR . S rank - Dragapult - seeing as TL is lower than Poison Heal of all things on a really offencive mon should say something but even if it doesn't, Fairy/Steel/Normal core that is being used by most of the players completely ignores both of pult's stab moves and can often recover back the HP lost even on a bad prediction. A+ Rank - Golisopod, Melmetal, Primarina - Pod is just straight up walled by non-ground physdef walls
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Golisopod First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 82-96 (20.5 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cobalion: 135-159 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 64.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (30% is regenerator'ed and volt does ~30%, not to mention TL isnt even used)
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Type: Null: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (what even is TL lmao)
, TL Primarina is straight up worse Inteleon so everything that would apply to the gecko will apply to prim as well, Melmetal is on the worst abusers list which will be talked about later. A - Escavalier, Inteleon, Togekiss - Escavalier has almost the same calcs as Pod, a bit of attack isn't helping it's case sadly, Inteleon will be talked about later, Togekiss gets walled by every spdef mon, nasty plot is not helping its case because the spdef mons can also threaten it back
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Type: Null: 58-69 (14.7 - 17.5%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 79-94 (15 - 17.9%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 103-123 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 17.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Type: Null Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Togekiss: 127-151 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Only honorable mentions lower is Dracovish which could break the common Stamina walls. Now for Melmetal, Inteleon and it's weird cousin Salazzle they seem to be the "face" of TL even though they suffer the same fate as other TL abusers and don't bring anything too special, funny metal man gets demolished by 100/100 bulk with recovery, over 40 speed and no steel weakness, this seems like a lot even though it isn't, steelworker on the other hand at least chips those wannabe walls like mew down while TL just lets them roost everything off, and what does it bring offencively? Not 2hkoing Ferro thats for sure, triage recovers all of that damage back, not 2hkoing Stamina!Corviknight either, steelworker kills nonstamina ones.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 276-324 (78.4 - 92%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 206-244 (58.5 - 69.3%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 240-288 (60 - 72%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 180-214 (45 - 53.5%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
At this point it sounds like I'm repeating myself but Inteleon/Salazzle have the same issue, doesn't break thicc normals, barely breaks weird things that would want to switch into it like Ferrothorn/Primarina. With these points I think my vote is clear
Tinted lens should NOT be banned(until we find a new broken abuser)
 

manu 11

When someone asks me if i am indian because of my name
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Going to keep it short because i already pointed out why it isn't healthy to me and honestly the suspect tours and staaab games lately haven't really made me change my mind. Sure, more counters have emerged, people are adapting their teams to the current TL abusers but that's not always enough. Moreover, the 2 main abusers as of now (Melmetal and inteleon) don't hit on the same def stat, so 1 poke can't check both. So yeah, to me it should be banned because Tinted Lens breaks a fundamental mechanic of the game, namely the type chart. It's pretty dumb when you can just past through walls because you know let's just ignore your typing.

Tinted Lens is fine in other tiers because it either has no pokes with a good moveset to abuse it or the pokes that have that ability are just terrible. In staaabmons, TL becomes immensely threatening as any pokemon can have it and pokemon also have access to the strongest move of their typing allowing pokes to just spam above 100BP moves without any consequence. Not many pokes can switch on those moves safely. It becomes even less if you consider some of those high BP moves can be buffed by weather such as water spout/eruption/Pyro ball. In the same way, terrains can also boost psystrike, photon geyser or bolt strike just to name a few. What could normally be tanked due to type advantage is just nullified and your check is just dead.

Spheal's calc with tyranitar actually shows another pokemon that could run TL efficiently and without too much thought. Pretty sure there are other ones that we haven't found yet.

So yeah i vote ban.
 
:marshadow: AG MnM :marshadow:

Not made a mashup this gen cause corrupt auth, AG MnM was left to rot. But now, I'm making a post on it because it's a "so bad that it's good" meta which I didn't even know was a possible thing but whatever let's start talking

:ss/marshadow:
Marshadow @ Medichamite / Beedrillite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Bulk Up / Substitute

Marshadow @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Substitute / Bulk Up

In the pre-Home meta, I wasn't worried about any of the terrible trio (Arceus, Marshadow, Rayquaza) from last gen coming back. However, after Home, the strongest of the three returned and set its mark on the metagame: Marshadow. And dear god it did exactly that. For a display of its power, turn to this calc:
252 Atk Medichamite Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Mandibuzz: 246-291 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It cleanly 2HKOs Sablenite Mandibuzz without any Defense boosts. This is what a Marshadow wall looks like. I'm sure you can imagine the strength of a Pure Power user with unresisted STAB and STAB priority is high. Beedrillite is for higher Speed. Gyaradosite surprises other Marshadow by resisting Shadow Sneak, allowing the Gyaradosite Marshadow to OHKO with Foul Play. Moving on.

:ss/arcanine:
Arcanine @ Pinsirite / Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Howl
- Extreme Speed
- Double-Edge / Body Slam
- Flare Blitz / Wild Charge / Bulldoze / Morning Sun / Flame Charge

Arcanine will be the -atespeed user this gen, and will serve as the primary check to Marshadow. It functions the same way as Rayquaza, but with a few changes. First off, Frustration is gone, so there's no easy way to stop Ditto from rampaging through the opposing team. Second, I listed a bunch of super dumb options in the fourth slot. Basically Flare Blitz is STAB/coverage, Wild Charge hits Water/Rocks and Fire/Flyings and those kinds of mons, Bulldoze completes perfect coverage for Pinsirite, Morning Sun heals, and Flame Charge is so you can Flame Charge into ESpeed and win prio wars. That's Arcanine for you.

:ss/rhydon: :ss/rhyperior: :ss/onix:

Rhydon / Rhyperior @ Eviolite / Latiasite / Sablenite
Ability: Lightning Rod / Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Roar / Curse / Earthquake / Rest
- Roar / Curse / Shadow Claw / Rest

Onix @ Eviolite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Rest
- Stealth Rock / Sleep Talk
- Taunt

Yes, Rhydon and Onix. These counter Arcanine and Onix has Taunt and doubles as a Sturdy Pokemon, which will be explained in a moment. Rhydon has much higher attack though. Rhydon also has a few options for its third and fourth slot. Roar cancels setup, Curse is setup, Shadow Claw hits Marshadow on the switch, Rest is for recovery, and Earthquake is for secondary STAB. Onix can also run Rest if it wants to, along with Sleep Talk. Rhydon should always be run with Eviolite, and if you want to use a Mega Stone, use Rhyperior.
Pinsirite Arcanine is completely and utterly countered.
252 Atk Pinsirite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 71-84 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Pinsirite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Onix: 42-51 (15.3 - 18.6%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Pinsirite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latiasite Rhyperior: 82-97 (18.9 - 22.4%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Pinsirite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sablenite Rhyperior: 74-87 (17 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

Altarianite Arcanine is less so, but the Rock/Ground Pokemon can still switch into its attacks.

252 Atk Altarianite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 150-177 (36.3 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Altarianite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Onix: 90-106 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Altarianite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latiasite Rhyperior: 174-205 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Altarianite Arcanine Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sablenite Rhyperior: 156-184 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

The Pokemon themselves can OHKO Pinsirite Arcanine 100% of the time except for Onix.

8 Atk Onix Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pinsirite Arcanine: 232-280 (72.2 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for Altarianite Arcanine, it also avoids the OHKO from Onix, but also the 2HKO this time as well. Every other Rock/Ground OHKO's it.

8 Atk Onix Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altarianite Arcanine: 116-140 (36.1 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

:ss/ninetales-alola:
Ninetales-Alola @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Blizzard
- Hypnosis
- Aurora Veil

Last time Alolan Ninetales lost to all three members of the trio by virtue of it fucking dying to any priority but now that Arceus has been replaced by the Rock/Grounds Alolan Ninetales has a member of the trio it can come in on because they don't have any priority. This makes it that much more dangerous and makes Onix more appealing because of Sturdy, which allows it to be immune to any OHKO moves, even if they're super effective.

:ss/dugtrio:
Dugtrio @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fissure
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Dugtrio can flat-out remove a Pokemon from play and the only Sturdy that isn't weak to Rock or Ground is Sawk. It's faster than Ninetales and Arcanine can't switch in. I think it's better than Alolan Ninetales cause it trashes the entire non-priority meta but Ninetales has Veil and sleep which is really helpful.

:ss/necrozma-dusk-mane:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Mawilite / Sablenite
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish

Necro-DM is a cool and good mon with Double Dance. Mawilite is chosen over Medichamite because Necrozma wants those Defenses a lot more than it wants a Speed boost. Sablenite is picked cause it's Sablenite. Watch out tho cause you get slower.

:ss/kyurem-white:
Kyurem-White @ Diancite
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Fusion Flare
- Earth Power

Now that Rhydon is a member of the trio Kyurem White gets better cause it beats it. Also Altarianite Arcanine needs a sack. Pinsirite Arcanine probably also needs a sack. This thing is big broke and wins the game 100% of the time, except when they have priority users.

:ss/solgaleo:
Solgaleo @ Diancite / Medichamite / Beedrillite
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- Flare Blitz / Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Solgaleo @ Blazikenite
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Protect

Solgaleo @ Sablenite
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Toxic
- Morning Sun
- Roar

As you can see Solgaleo can run just about every set imaginable, and is probably the only good user of Blazikenite. Zen Headbutt is for Marshadow. I think these sets are all self-explanatory.

:ss/sawk:

Sawk (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Zen Headbutt
- Stone Edge
- Bulk Up / Toxic

Not sure why you would run Toxic, maybe if you were scared of Pidgeotite Galarian Rapidash or something. I just put it as an option cause you can use it, but you should probably run Bulk Up. This is just a regular Sturdy user and nothing more.

:ss/primarina:
Primarina @ Sablenite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA OR 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Bold / Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Beats KyuW, Sawk, and has a good matchup vs the entire trio. The EVs represent who you want to beat; go SpDef for Kyurem or Def for everything else. It also tends to OHKO a lot of the stuff it's checking, because it's Primarina.

:ss/ditto:
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform

Ditto is a lot worse this gen because no Altarianite Ray and it doesn't really know how to take advantage of other mons now but it completely flips the Marsh MU with Scarf which is always nice. Also more Pidgeotite means that it will sweep teams without Sturdy.

:ss/togedemaru:
Togedemaru @ Choice Scarf / Air Balloon
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Sleep Talk / Toxic

Another Scarf user, Togedemaru does what Magnezone did last gen and OHKO Ninetales before it can do anything. Dugtrio takes advantage of this mon but you can use Air Balloon so that's cool. Sleep Talk is if you get hit by Hypnosis on the switch.

:ss/lunala:
Lunala @ Absolite
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Roost
- Defog
- Tailwind

Last gen, out of the trio, Lunala only set up on Rayquaza and even if it did set up Arceus could still beat it, but in Gen 8 the moment Lunala hits Tailwind players are forced to sack Pokemon to get Marshadow in. Defog is also nice since one of the trio has Stealth Rock and Arcanine/KyuW are prevalent. Normal-types basically don't exist so we don't have to worry about them.

:ss/mimikyu:
Mimikyu @ Beedrillite / Medichamite
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Shadow Sneak

Ghost that always beats Marsh. You could technically use Ditto but Ditto sucks. Also beats Arcanine probably.

:ss/mewtwo:
Mewtwo @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Blizzard
- Thunder
- Fire Blast / Recover

It's Pidgeotite Mewtwo, the god. Fire Blast hits Necrozma but you can use Recover cause it's not frail. It beats a lot of the meta, though Marshadow games Mewtwo it can't switch in. It is the lord, Pidgeotite Mewtwo.

:ss/mandibuzz:
Mandibuzz (F) @ Sablenite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog
- Tailwind / U-turn / Payback

Foul Play OHKO's Marshadow, and Roost and Defog are obvious. The last slot can be whatever; Tailwind supports the team, U-turn grabs momentum and Payback hits special Psychic-types.

Here are the two teams I made
:marshadow::arcanine::rhyperior::arcanine::arcanine::solgaleo:
I started out with the trio because it defines the meta. I then added another Arcanine because Marshadow was such a big problem. Then I was like "damn arc kinda busted doe" and so I added Altarianite Arcanine with Wild Charge, cause those beat other Arcanine real well. Finally I added Mawilite Solgaleo cause it beats Rhyperior and Primarina in one and that's kinda epic
:marshadow::marshadow::marshadow::arcanine::marshadow::coalossal:
I just copy pasted Marshadow over and over again, I made one of them Gyaradosite so I could fuck with the opp but I also made one Altarianite Arcanine so I wouldn't die to Ditto and also extra Marsh protection. Latiasite Coalossal does this thing where it counters all forms of Arcanine which is good when you spam something that dies to it

don't delete my post i worked so hard on it
 
Hello, i have been playing Stabmons MNM for sometime and ive grown to enjoy it alot. Its like a mix of Stabmons Ubers and Pokemon who can mega pls free mega mewtwos and i thought to contribute as much as i can since its so much fun.

I wanna provide some sets i used when the occasional tournaments happen and hope to help out those who want to dive into the meta, trust me its fun and underrated, also rip Dragons Ascent. anyways here are the sets

So my favorite set has to be this incineroar

:incineroar:
Incineroar @ Banettite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Parting Shot
- Will-O-Wisp
- Topsy-Turvy
- Jaw Lock

a bulky pivot that can handle Lunala and Clangorous Soul Abusers which run through this meta if left unchecked. I say some abusers like Kyurem-White and Eternatus for example. Topsy-Turvy reverses stat boosts and turns it to stat debuffs, crippling them to be weakened and slower, forcing a switch. Incineroar has the benefit to intimidate before mega evolving, letting it be a check to Altarianite/Pinsirite Arcanine, who is still amazing in this tier. Banettite gives you prankster Parting Shot and Topsy-Turvy since the CG Users can't outpriotitize. Jaw Lock traps so you can Parting Shot next turn and not have a double switch, even if its already gurantee to go to the counter of the Pokemon you Locked but i thought its neat coverage.

:Zamazenta-Crowned:
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Iron Defense
- Drain Punch
- Body Press

Man I have been craving and wished Zamazenta got Body Press for real, it fits so well and i fail to understand GF's decision to give this Body Press, but i digress. This set is easily interchangable but the main reason is to abuse Body Press. Admittedly its not good in this meta as most of the top tiers resist fighting but if you wanna have fun and use Zamazenta. Its steel typing let it check the dragons who, doubtfully, lack fire coverage. Zamazenta can be good

those are just some of the sets i can come up with. I hope yall can join me to play this really fun meta
 
LC Mashup Updates

Camomons, AAA, STABmons, and Balanced Hackmons LC Setpedias have more sets included as of right now, I've been regularly updating it to add as many sets possible within the past 2 months since Home's release, especially when something is changed/banned from LC or in the mashup's corresponding OMs.

In addition, we get some new LC Sample Teams, check out here to see all of the current ones.

Camomons LC
:dewpider::pawniard::corphish::vullaby::koffing::diglett:
:mudbray::frillish::vullaby::ponyta::timburr::farfetch

AAA LC
:spritzee::ferroseed::vullaby::pancham::onix::ponyta:

A few teams are still same, but they have been revamped, and some now have descriptions.
 
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