Sticky Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire

[Prophet]

That's probably because they wanted Mega Lati@s to be available for use in XY, while the new Mega and Primal Pokémon are for ORAS only.

Then we come to the question of why make just those two available and not the others recently revealed? Of course, they could possibly be pre-release promo material, but the months are winding down and nothing in sight so far.

I think it's best we try not to put too much thought into Game Freak's actions, because it's pretty clear at this point they'll do whatever they please.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Hey so, why does Wonder guard keep coming up for Sableye? I don't think GF always dose the best job of making sure certain things aren't too powerful. But you would have to be an absolute moron to think that anything with an an ok amount of bulk wouldn't be broken with Wonder Guard. Sableye will not have Wonder Guard. In it's current typing it would be vulnerable to ONLY ONE type. So what happens? Everyone uses Mega Sableye and then everyone has to carry Fairy attacks on all their Pokemon. The game breaks down 1000 times faster than Power Up Punch + Parental Bond. Hell it would actually 1v1 outright slaughter 95% of Ubers given how few things carry a Fairy move. If Mega Sableye LOST 100 base Points, and LOST one of it's typings and gained Wonder Guard and you measured how broken it was in some sort of quantifiable units of brokenness it would out break every single pokemon restricted to Ubers combined.

Aurorus is a Pokemon with the two worst defensive typings in the whole game 5 and 4 weakness each and they synergize horribly so the poor thing loses almost non of those weakness compounds 2 of them to x4 and is left with 4 others all to types like fighting, ground, and water that you find in pretty much every pokemon's movepool. But give her Wonder Guard and even she'd go OU in an instant and even work well in Uber for her ability to be impervious to numerous numerous numerous mono attacking sets or Pokemon who's stab moves provide them with the coverage to not rely on ground and fighting attacks.
GF doesn't balance things well always, but you have to have enough faith in them that they won't ever give Wonder Guard to anything other than Shedinja. Or at least never to anything that has more bulk than what Shedinja has outside of the ability.

 

[Mijzelffan]

So Primal Groudon has quite some focus on its weight. From the official site: "Groudon has long been the heaviest of all known Pokémon. With its Primal Reversion, it smashes that record to pieces!" What if they're actually gonna act on that and give it Heat Crash in-game? With a weight of 999,7 kg here is what pokemon seen in ubers it would hit for what base power (only mega sableye's weight is not known yet):


120 = <199,94: every mega and their base form that is not tyranitar, gyarados or aggron (yes including mewtwo, blaziken, the lati's, sceptile, swampert and diancie), landorus(-t), darkrai, deoxys (all), ho-oh (barely), klefki, genesect, sylveon, thundurus(-t), Wobbuffet, Aegislash, Bronzong, Excadrill, ferrothorn, forretress, gliscor, shaymin (both), Whimsicott, blissey, chansey, clefable, cloyster, Quagsire, sableye, gothitelle, jirachi, shuckle, skarmory, smeargle, amoonguss, ditto, cresselia, gastrodon, latias, latios, talonflame, greninja, salamence, espeon, azumarill, mew, florges, tornadus(-t), victini, manaphy, most other things.

100 = 199,94 - 249,92: xerneas, yveltal, lugia, rayquaza, tyranitar, scolipede (barely), gyarados, dragonite

80 = 249,93 - 333,23: arceus (all), mega tyranitar, hippowdon, kyurem (all), mega gyarados, terrakion, reshiram (barely), rhyperior, zygarde

60 = 333,24 - 499,85: (primal) kyogre, palkia (barely), zekrom, heatran (immune), (mega) aggron, bronzong (with heavy metal)

40 = 499,85>: dialga, (primal) groudon, giratina (both), aggron (with heavy metal), avalugg (new groudon counter lol), metagross (for those of you hoping for a viable mega)

So yes I'm quite hoping they'll give it heat crash.

 

[Codraroll]

Why is it more work to add new moves/abilities and for whatever reason, not those new Mega/Primal Pokemon?

Because the games only need to recognize the species of the Pokémon on the other game. As long as the core identifying data is present, it can be displayed in its base form on the "old" game. This has been the case since Gen. III. Later games in a generation have introduced Pokémon Formes not available in the "base game", but they can still be used in battles or trade with the base games - in that case, the base game will recognize the Pokémon species, and simply display the sprite available.

The same goes for moves with changed animations: Whenever a new game uses a new animation, the old one displays the old animation. The important thing is that both games can identify the move being used, the Pokémon on the field, and their abilities. How the games interpret this mutually shared information, varies. But as long as both games have a common point of reference, things work well. D/P shows the Shaymin sprite where Platinum shows Shaymin-S. Both games agree that the Pokémon on the field is a Shaymin, but they have different interpretations of what that implies. The existence of hacked Pokémon shows that giving a Pokémon a different type, ability, stats or moves than usual is not a problem. After all, the gen. IV games didn't crash when faced with a Spiritomb with Wonder Guard. The game knows what a Spiritomb is, it knows what Wonder Guard does, and doesn't see anyhing odd about the combination. The games can perfectly well handle an unusual combination of elements, as long as each element is known already.

If, however, one game lacks the common point of reference, trouble arises. If an ORAS Pokémon tries to use any new moves in a battle against XY, XY will have no idea what that move is, and crash. Same goes for abilities. With no foreknowledge of the abilities, they have to be coded in from scratch in order to work in the old game. A new Pokémon form, however, is no problem. As long as the game can identify the base form, it will just display the base form, possibly after playing a Mega Evolution animation or presenting a special message. Apart from a little sprite/model change, a new Pokémon form is simply just a new combination of old elements, and presents no unknown elements to the older game.

 

[richi3f]

Not only new moves, but I believe there's new abilities involved too. Take a look at the descriptions from the official site:

Primal Groudon

And it appears that its Ability might get a boost! Look forward to more details about the power hidden within Primal Groudon!

Spears of rock wrapped in magma stab out at the target! What move is this?!

Look forward to more information on these mysteries!

Primal Kyogre

Plus, look forward to more details about Primal Kyogre's Ability, a power hidden within this awesome Pokémon.

What move is this?! The pillars of water that have been unleashed are assaulting the target!

Check back for more revelations upon these mysteries!

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Not only new moves, but I believe there's new abilities involved too. Take a look at the descriptions from the official site:

Primal Groudon

Primal Kyogre

Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, I'd say.

 

[Kyuzeth]

I think you will end up being right about Milotic and Metagross, (don't know about the stats but at least that they'll go mega) for all the reasons you said and because they have the right level of popularity among mass fans.
I really really really doubt it for Gallade though. Gardevoir already got one, if we only get 6 more I doubt the majority of fans would want to see ANOTHER mega in that line. I think they'll hand them out to other mega-less families for a while before they go back and give them to separate branches of families already with a mega (if they ever do) Hyderigon seems unlikely too just cause they don't seem to be giving them to gen V Pokemon for now and because there are a lot of things similar to Hyderigon that seem like bigger candidates (Slamance or Dragonite or even Flygon)

I see ORAS exactly as a good opportunity to introduce some Gen V Mega Pokémon, but let's just agree to disagree. Regarding Gallade: you're not keeping in mind how Gallade has had quite a large fanbase ever since it got introduced and a lot of people actually DO want a Mega Gallade. A lot of Mega Pokémon are fan favorites and Sinnoh only has three Mega Pokémon, so I really don't see why they wouldn't give Gallade a Mega Evolution. There's a lot of ways to build around its concept of a swordsman and it's only fair compared to Gardevoir.

Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, I'd say.

False. Those are both Ground-type moves that are designated to Zygarde, as links can be made between the moves and Xerneas and Yveltal.

 

[Sweetstack]

Mega Diancie official artwork:

 

[Kurona]

Thousand Arrows and Thousand Waves, I'd say.

I was thinking that myself, so I decided to look up the video.

Sure doesn't look like Kyogre and Groudon's moves to me. I know the animation may be different depending on game, but there's too many differences to me.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

If, however, one game lacks the common point of reference, trouble arises. If an ORAS Pokémon tries to use any new moves in a battle against XY, XY will have no idea what that move is, and crash. Same goes for abilities. With no foreknowledge of the abilities, they have to be coded in from scratch in order to work in the old game. A new Pokémon form, however, is no problem. As long as the game can identify the base form, it will just display the base form, possibly after playing a Mega Evolution animation or presenting a special message. Apart from a little sprite/model change, a new Pokémon form is simply just a new combination of old elements, and presents no unknown elements to the older game.

There are a lot of ways to program around this. For instance there could be a piece of code in the XY games that allows for the "insertion" of what you're calling a reference point from later games. ORAS code send a piece of code that identifies the move it's using as one not in XY, X and Y code then recognizes this tag and quickly gets the info needed through the signal. For instance ORAS could say "this is a move not in XY, Fire type, base 130, special" something like that and XY wouldn't "crash" it could still take that data through the signal execute the move and know whats going on. if they get more elabrate ORAS could possibly do things like tell XY how to animate the move. Similarly when trading a pokemon it could simply "forget" moves not in XY and a message could warn you this will happen on ORAS. it's not to hard to program around.

 

[Kurona]

There are a lot of ways to program around this. For instance there could be a piece of code in the XY games that allows for the "insertion" of what you're calling a reference point from later games. ORAS code send a piece of code that identifies the move it's using as one not in XY, X and Y code then recognizes this tag and quickly gets the info needed through the signal. For instance ORAS could say "this is a move not in XY, Fire type, base 130, special" something like that and XY wouldn't "crash" it could still take that data through the signal execute the move and know whats going on. if they get more elabrate ORAS could possibly d othings like tell XY how to animate the move. Similarly when trading a pokemon it could simply "forget" moves not in XY and a message could warn you this will happen on ORAS. it's not to hard to program around.

But again, what would be the point when you could just program the moves into XY in the first place? We're going round in circles here.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

The point would be that it is good code design. It allows game creators the flexibility to alter aspects of future games they are still in the process of designing rather than locking themselves into place months or years before hand, only to realize they wanted to make some feature a little different.

EDIT: And for that reason it's actually LESS work to add new things in later. Or at least, less work before hand. As all the need to do is leave it open ended and future games can fill in the blanks rather than having to do all the work before hand.

 

[Kurona]

The point would be that it is good code design. It allows game creators the flexibility to alter aspects of future games they are still in the process of designing rather than locking themselves into place months or years before hand, only to realize they wanted to make some feature a little different.

Except these things are planned out way in advance. Deciding at the last minute they want to do something a little different implies a rather lazy, shoddy design process with little thought put into things.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Or it implies that they're pupping out entirely new, cohesive, well built, modern games less than 12 months apart. "Last minutes" is kind of a relative concept.

Giving yourself the flexibility is never a bad thing. it doesn't mean your lazy that you came up with a more efficient system of editing content.

 

[Kurona]

Or it implies that they're pupping out entirely new, cohesive, well built, modern games less than 12 months apart. "Last minutes" is kind of a relative concept.

Giving yourself the flexibility is never a bad thing. it doesn't mean your lazy that you came up with a more efficient system of editing content.

Well alright, let's look at this specific example.
the signature moves of Groudon and Kyogre.
Are you kidding me? Are you seriously trying to tell me that a company as big as Game Freak, handling something as big as long-awaited remakes of the best-selling GBA games, did not perfectly plan out the definite effects of the signature moves of the main box-art legendaries before XY's release with all their planning?

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Yes.....
lol, that's what i'm trying to tell you. They clearly have new moves that clearly haven't been found in X and Y's code. So it looks like they're using a more modern system of editing content.... good for them.

EDIT: The official website also says "With an Ability that can control the weather and a high Attack and Defense, the powerful Pokémon Groudon... blah blah...Through Primal Reversion... balh blah blha.... And it appears that its Ability might get a boost! Look forward to more details about the power hidden within Primal Groudon!"
I don't know how that reads to you but to me it sounds like they're hinting that early predictions were rigth. It's not getting a new ability it's ability is getting a boost. So either it's bringing a new stronger weather condition or the weather is lasting more than 5 turns. So on some level abilites not in XY will be in ORAS too. not just moves.

 

[Kurona]

You know I kind of find it difficult to believe that when handling such a big thing, an intricate design process wouldn't matter because "oh maybe we should do this" at the last minute. How hard is it really to plan out a 130 base power STAB move with an additional effect?

 

[gabriel]

Well alright, let's look at this specific example.
the signature moves of Groudon and Kyogre.
Are you kidding me? Are you seriously trying to tell me that a company as big as Game Freak, handling something as big as long-awaited remakes of the best-selling GBA games, did not perfectly plan out the definite effects of the signature moves of the main box-art legendaries before XY's release with all their planning?

I see your point, but there doesn't seem to be a way around new moves to me. The animations don't match with any moves we've seen before, especially Kyogre's. The fact there are new mega evolutions despite all the odds (in fact, the same argument was used against new mega evolutions back then: they plan way in advance! Why did they put in some but not the others?) just goes to show how easy it'll be to deal with new data. Now even the official website is hinting at new moves and better abilities. It would be very unlikely for us not to get them especially after all the hype that's been creating by the pokemon company itself.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

You know I kind of find it difficult to believe that when handling such a big thing, an intricate design process wouldn't matter because "oh maybe we should do this" at the last minute. How hard is it really to plan out a 130 base power STAB move with an additional effect?

You already said this. In response I say. Even if you plan it out ahead WHY would you lock it in when you COULD leave yourself the flexibility. it's like not buckling your seat belt because you planned a head and know how to drive whatever route you're about to take safely. Please say something new

EDIT: Also what gabriel said. Could very well be they planned it in advanced but didn't include content simply for the sake of being able to keep it from us until it was released later. Imagine if XY had signature moves for Kyogre and Groudon in the game code. We would have all know ORAS was coming since last November.

 

[Deck Knight]

Gee, if the move that Groudon can learn and looks like an Eruption of magma from the ground... I really wonder what it could be...

I wish it was Thousand Arrows.

But even GF wouldn't give another Pokemon a Psystrike powered kind of Sig. Move...

 

[Kurona]

I really don't like this 'Flexibility' argument. If they haven't reached a solid, final conclusion for what they're definitely doing for box art legends, something they've been planning for a long time now and are advertising the hell out of and relying on much more than Mega Starters, that really, really worries me and makes me wonder what the hell sort of planning team they've got.
Planning exists so they DON'T have to worry and change little things in the future. If it doesn't work out, well, tough. They have to reach some sort of definite conclusion before releasing the game, or else what the hell does that imply for any sort of planning process in the future?
If I go and watch a newly-released movie in the cinema and it's like 20 minutes away from a significant death scene, the writers don't just suddenly come into the cinema and say "Yeah, sorry guys, but we're going to have to pause the movie and take it away for a bit because just right now we thought of this REALLY cool thing that could make it better. We obviously didn't think this through during the planning process; sorry for the hassle, we'll get it back to you in a bit."
If you're making a product, I'm sorry, you have to be serious and straight forward about it. You can't just pussy-foot your way around it and think "oh maybe I can do this to MAYBE add some thing in later". You have to be absolutely sure what you're making and selling is the definite final product you think is the best thing. And if it doesn't work out? Well, tough. Better luck next time.

 

[gabriel]

Something I posted in the last page and didn't get any comments. The japanese pokemon site has those pictures showing the starters, legendaries and new mega evolutions. This picture has six slots empty, implying there will be six new megas. Now does it? Some slots are taken up by regular pokémon, like Groudon and Kyogre, so this means the six slots left don't necessarily will be filled by mega evolutions.

On the other hand, they're definitely not going to announce every single new mega before release, and since the website is just trying to showcase new things (that is, new things that are going to be revealed before the games come out to promote them), probably there are more new mega evolutions in the game than they're going to show on their website.

What do you guys think?

For those wanting to take another look, here's a link. Just scroll down and you'll see the pictures and slots I'm talking about.

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/oras/pokemon/14.html

 

[Kurona]

Something I posted in the last page and didn't get any comments. The japanese pokemon site has those pictures showing the starters, legendaries and new mega evolutions. This picture has six slots empty, implying there will be six new megas. Now does it? Some slots are taken up by regular pokémon, like Groudon and Kyogre, so this means the six slots left don't necessarily will be filled by mega evolutions.

The only Pokémon I can think of as significant enough without a new mega/form would be Rayquaza. Along with Rayquaza there'd be a slot for an inevitable Primal Rayquaza, and the other 4 slots would be Megas. That's my take on it.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

I really don't like this 'Flexibility' argument. If they haven't reached a solid, final conclusion for what they're definitely doing for box art legends, something they've been planning for a long time now and are advertising the hell out of and relying on much more than Mega Starters, that really, really worries me and makes me wonder what the hell sort of planning team they've got.
Planning exists so they DON'T have to worry and change little things in the future. If it doesn't work out, well, tough. They have to reach some sort of definite conclusion before releasing the game, or else what the hell does that imply for any sort of planning process in the future?

I think we're getting way off topic here. To be honest I would guess they've had it planned long in advanced and have't changed it but simply didn't include the content so that people wouldn't go finding it in the code and release all their new secrets they're now hyping for us.

That said. I don't know that you understand what "good planning" is. Leaving yourself flexibility is good planning. In fact, forcing yourself to stick with a decisions that you made long ago that perhaps you don't want to stick with in the present and that you could have been able to avoid is BAD planning. that doesn't apply to just making Pokemon games, it applies to every type of planning anyone ever did for anything. it's why people make "backup plans" cause they're smart and want to be flexible. If the team that plans these things DIDN'T leave themselves some amount of flexibility in the future THAT'S when you should worry and start to wonder.

i don't really want to say more and I don't think it's relevant to the fact that there WILL be new content not in X and Y code so you can have last word if you want....

 

[Chill]

Something I posted in the last page and didn't get any comments. The japanese pokemon site has those pictures showing the starters, legendaries and new mega evolutions. This picture has six slots empty, implying there will be six new megas. Now does it? Some slots are taken up by regular pokémon, like Groudon and Kyogre, so this means the six slots left don't necessarily will be filled by mega evolutions.

On the other hand, they're definitely not going to announce every single new mega before release, and since the website is just trying to showcase new things (that is, new things that are going to be revealed before the games come out to promote them), probably there are more new mega evolutions in the game than they're going to show on their website.

What do you guys think?

For those wanting to take another look, here's a link. Just scroll down and you'll see the pictures and slots I'm talking about.

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/ex/oras/pokemon/14.html

I wouldn't read into it too much. Like you said, some of the slots are taken up by non mega pokemon. It could mean something or mean nothing at all. There's really no way to tell at this point.