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Gross Sweep

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Alright, So I need some clarification on something.

Kyurem-b is allowed to be in the tier, but not kyurem-w? From what I can see the only differences are their signature moves, special and physical defenses are flipped, as well as flipped physical and special attack stats. So I just have to ask is kyurem-w's signature move, fusion flare, so powerful that it needs to be banned or is it just the uber status holding it back from the meta? I'm having a hard time with the uber angle since stuff like M-mawile and aegislash are allowed in the tier, and I'm also not getting the special move sense victini I believe gets the same one. I could see it being a scenario like landorus-i and greninja where the meta just wasn't prepared to handle a special attacking mon with so much variability.

I'd like to apologize if the reason Kyurem-w is banned is obvious to everyone but me; I just can't get past the fact it's basically a reversed kyurem-b but banned. Also sorry if this isn't the time for this discussion with a suspect test going on I just couldn't figure it out and need some enlightenment.
 
Alright, So I need some clarification on something.

Kyurem-b is allowed to be in the tier, but not kyurem-w? From what I can see the only differences are their signature moves, special and physical defenses are flipped, as well as flipped physical and special attack stats. So I just have to ask is kyurem-w's signature move, fusion flare, so powerful that it needs to be banned or is it just the uber status holding it back from the meta? I'm having a hard time with the uber angle since stuff like M-mawile and aegislash are allowed in the tier, and I'm also not getting the special move sense victini I believe gets the same one. I could see it being a scenario like landorus-i and greninja where the meta just wasn't prepared to handle a special attacking mon with so much variability.

I'd like to apologize if the reason Kyurem-w is banned is obvious to everyone but me; I just can't get past the fact it's basically a reversed kyurem-b but banned. Also sorry if this isn't the time for this discussion with a suspect test going on I just couldn't figure it out and need some enlightenment.
Kyurem-B is only allowed in OU due to its physical movepool being so limited, hence why it being a mixed or special attacker is so plausible. Kyurem-W is an Uber since it can be essentially be a specially offensive version of Kyurem-B with considerably stronger power, no fear of being crippled by intimidate or other attack-dropping moves or abilities, has a considerably more viable Fusion move than Fusion Bolt, and actual Ice STAB that appeals to its superior offense unlike Kyurem-B.
 
Alright, So I need some clarification on something.

Kyurem-b is allowed to be in the tier, but not kyurem-w? From what I can see the only differences are their signature moves, special and physical defenses are flipped, as well as flipped physical and special attack stats. So I just have to ask is kyurem-w's signature move, fusion flare, so powerful that it needs to be banned or is it just the uber status holding it back from the meta? I'm having a hard time with the uber angle since stuff like M-mawile and aegislash are allowed in the tier, and I'm also not getting the special move sense victini I believe gets the same one. I could see it being a scenario like landorus-i and greninja where the meta just wasn't prepared to handle a special attacking mon with so much variability.

I'd like to apologize if the reason Kyurem-w is banned is obvious to everyone but me; I just can't get past the fact it's basically a reversed kyurem-b but banned. Also sorry if this isn't the time for this discussion with a suspect test going on I just couldn't figure it out and need some enlightenment.
Essentially what Glyx said, KyuWh has 170 SpA, giving it the power to spam both ice beam and draco Meteor effectively. It's like if KyuB got some physical attacking ice move to spam all the time, it would most likely be uber too.
 

DoW

formally Death on Wings
is a Pre-Contributor
Kyurem-B is only allowed in OU due to its physical movepool being so limited, hence why it being a mixed or special attacker is so plausible. Kyurem-W is an Uber since it can be essentially be a specially offensive version of Kyurem-B with considerably stronger power, no fear of being crippled by intimidate or other attack-dropping moves or abilities, has a considerably more viable Fusion move than Fusion Bolt, and actual Ice STAB that appeals to its superior offense unlike Kyurem-B.
To add to this, the fact that Kyu-B often runs a special set (although perhaps moreso in singles) highlights how much better special is for its movepool. In 1v1, scarf draco / ice beam / fusion flare / earth power, alongside its respectable bulk, would be beaten only by chansey, which it could probably lure with a LO outrage set.
 

DEG

1v1 iS a HaX aNd Mu BaSeD mEtAgAmE.
is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus

Welcome to the first explore the wild life with DEG! In the picture above we can obverse the PS! environment in the Monotype room, wild people talking a completely monotype related topic. We can also see Betathunder in it's natural habitat pouring salt all over it because he can't handle it. While looking closely we can see that I got reqs under the account Twenty One Pilotss! T'was fun!

I would also take a minute and thank Articuno I for being easy to hax on ladder and Betathunder for losing all 50/50s on ladder.

Used to play 1v1 while relaxing but now we're stressed out!
 

DEG

1v1 iS a HaX aNd Mu BaSeD mEtAgAmE.
is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Suspect Round: Worms and Birds
(Worms; Underused Pokemon in our metagame. Birds; Overused Pokemon in our metagame)

Salamence by Paprik-a on Deviantart

I promised that I was going to write a post about our victims this round; Mega Salamence and (Mega) Blaziken. Some users have charged both of them as guilty, others as innocent, but we still have some people that are torn whether to cross the borders or not. Are Mega Salamence and (Mega) Blaziken guilty or innocent?
People have showed their disinterest about nowadays 1v1 metagame justifying their choices by it being too offensive or uber-esque due to the presence of ubers Pokemon in our metagame. Some others would like to shake up the meta by introducing more Ubers Pokemon to the environment, this is all where it started. Both sides got what they wanted, a three way suspect. It's up to users to decide whether they want to tone down the offensive violence in 1v1 by sending both victims to the shadow realms or would they rather keep the disastrous offensive wars in the metagame by keeping both? Or are we gonna assist to the creation of something new if Mega Salamence gets banned and Mega Blaziken stays? Maybe nothing will happen after all. I visited the cops and decided to interview them about the victims, are they really causing troubles? They handed me a documentary talking about both suspects which I'm gonna share here.



Suspect #1: Blaziken.

''We caught Blaziken trying to infiltrate the 1v1 metagame so we held it in one of our jails until the verdict is decided whether it should be allowed to stay or not.'' said the report. Blaziken is a Pokemon to be feared due to it's amazing STABS in fighting- and fire- which have good synergy to take out omnipresent threats in the 1v1 metagame such as Mega-Mawile and Kyurem-Black. We are sure that one of it's move slot is Protect that gives it a free turn to boost up it's speed thanks to it's Speed boost ability. But that doesn't mean it's predictable! Blaziken has more than one trick in it's sleeve, being able to run Physical or Special sets makes it an outrageous threat. But that doesn't stop here, it can also run mixed! And also it's one way attack oriented sets are unpredictable! Ah a Blaziken! Is it special? Is it mixed? Is it physical? If it's physical or mixed, what is it going to run? High Jump Kick? Flare Blitz? Maybe overheat? Why not hidden power ice? Or a sub-reversal set? What if I slap it with a Will o Wisp? This is a sample set that we could acquire by interrogating Blaziken.

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Protect
- Overheat
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power Ice

Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- High Jump Kick
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge


The public's torn between whether voting guilty or innocent because it's a double edged sword. On a side Blaziken's unpredictability, amazing stats and typing lets it take against numerous threats in the metagame, notably Chansey, Aggron, Kyurem-Black, Charizard Y. It also restricts team-building to an extent where a Blaziken counter is needed on any solid team otherwise it would crumble under it's feet. We also need to take account Underused Pokemon viability, yes we have top threats that may be able to beat it but we need to open doors to a more diverse metagame. On the other side, some users thinks that Blaziken doesn't hurt the metagame due to it's frailness and the omnipresence of bulky offensive Pokemon and bulky Pokemon such as Gyarados Mega, Mega Slowbro, Deoxys-Defense... Adding to that it's usage which will drop S ranked threats usage like PorygonZ, Kyub, Charizard Y... But does that really balance it's unpredictable and sheer power side? Let's not forget we're talking about a metagame where we shouldn't restrict team building that much and allows the diversity of sets otherwise we would fall in the void of generic. If Blaziken would be unbanned it would probably be ranked among the Gods, S rank.

Our latest investigation has revealed common Pokemon it beats:

So our team wishes you safety and bring with you one of these Pokemon to be able to arrive safely home:


But even with these Pokemon your safety isn't guaranteed as Blaziken can run team mates that can take on these threats, meet Blaziken's buddies:


The report concludes ''Blaziken forces more 50/50 which aren't sign of a healthy meta and centralizes the meta toward more offense spam.''
Is it safe to say that we don't really need Blaziken?




Suspect #2: Mega Salamence

''We caught Mega Salamence causing havoc in our territory with no mercy so we put it in jail and investigated with it. Mega Salamence said that it's seeking for justice and opening the path to light up the world. But how can it seek the light while causing darkness? We will let the public decide Salamence's fate'' Mega Salamence has made a great impact ever since it's introduction in our metagame. It's typing accounting stabs, diverse movepool and ability gives it an advantage against numerous threats in the metagame but it's typing leaves it vulnerable to common Dragon-, Ice- and Fairy- types. Yet again the diverse move pool letting it decide it's counter and checks contributing to it's centralizing factor. We have observed Salamence battle and saw that it uses plethora of moves depending on what the team is weak to counting, Outrage, Giga Impact, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Flamethrower, Fireblast, Hydro Pump, Earthquake, Iron Defense, Toxic. But does that means it's broken even though they are rarely seen?

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Giga Impact


We may be assisting to a one sided argument but that doesn't mean we shouldn't put up both to resolve the case. Salamence has a great ability combo in Intimidate to Aerilate when it mega evolves. Intimidate lowers the foe's attack by a stage giving it a chance to set up with no problem against physical attackers combining that with it's amazing stats of 95/145/130/120/90/120 with a total of 700 BST it's able to take on top threats in 1v1 such as Charizard Y and X, Mega Gyarados, Deoxys-D, Meloetta and others depending on it's set. Fireblast allows Mega Salamence beating problematic Steel types such as Mega Aggron and Mega Mawile, Iron Defense and Toxic lets it stall out physical threats beating them in a way you wouldn't imagine, hydro pump stops bulky rock types specifically Rhyperior, opting to a more special oriented set like Hyper Voice or Hyper Beam and Draco Meteor lets it takes on it's other problems such as Mega Slowbro, Garchomp... It suffers disadvantages such as being weak to ice attacks from faster threats or bulky Pokemon that are able to live a hit, it is also weak to bulky offensive threats and sturdy Pokemon it also suffers from a four move slot syndrome and if it runs a coverage move it opens another hole.

Our latest investigation has revealed common Pokemon it beats:

So our team wishes you safety and bring with you one of these Pokemon to be able to arrive safely home:


But even with these Pokemon your safety isn't guaranteed as Mega Salamence can run team mates that can take on these threats, meet Mega Salamence's buddies:


The report concludes ''Mega Salamance is a centralizing force in our metagame but is it really worth giving up on justice and banning Mega Salamence?''
Is Mega Salamence the hero we need but we don't deserve?


What are the public's thoughts?

After I seized the documentary I went around town asking what are the public's thoughts about these victims and this is what I have collected:

[20:08:38] +Dream Eater Gengar:What's your opinion on Blaziken and Mega Salamence?
[20:10:44] KS 1v1: ban em both
[20:10:49] KS 1v1: mega mence and blaz are pretty broken
[20:10:57] +Dream Eater Gengar:Reasons?
[20:10:59] KS 1v1: and they limit the diversity of the tier
[20:11:48] KS 1v1: i've pretty much stated everything i ever want to state about mence on 1v1 thread\
[20:12:20] KS 1v1: its just better then everything with more or less only 1 drawback
[20:12:43] KS 1v1: amazing movepool+ stats leaves little reason to run it
BattleDragon
[20:08:30] +Dream Eater Gengar:What's your opinion on Blaziken and Mega Salamence?
[20:08:51] Iv1: keep blaze
[20:08:55] Iv1: thinking ban on sla
[20:08:57] Iv1: sala
[20:09:03] Iv1: not sure tho
[20:09:07] +Dream Eater Gengar:reasons?
[20:09:22] Iv1: it is quite overcentralizing with making everyone run outspeed ice
[20:09:23] Iv1: lel
[20:09:33] Iv1: and blaze
[20:09:37] Iv1: has mmany counters
[20:11:00] +Dream Eater Gengar: lolno
[20:12:08] Iv1: yes
[20:12:09] Iv1: many
[20:12:11] Iv1: counters
[20:12:21] Iv1: just the fact it has to spam 4 substitutes
[20:12:25] Iv1: to use reversal
[20:12:31] Iv1: is unreliable
[20:12:33] Iv1: someties
[20:12:42] Iv1: loses to many pokes
[20:12:45] Iv1: gyarados slowbro
[20:12:48] Iv1: for hard counters
[20:12:52] Iv1: rock blast hyper vvoice
[20:13:03] Iv1: literally anything sturdy offensive
[20:13:11] Iv1: really
[20:13:15] Iv1: its not unstoppable
[20:13:27] Iv1: just because it can run powerful attacks
[20:13:35] Iv1: and outspeed some scarf
[20:13:49] Iv1: id be ok with banning ega
[20:13:52] Iv1: and keeping nonmega
[20:13:57] Iv1: but they want to just
[20:13:58] Iv1: ban blaze
[20:14:00] Iv1: period
[20:14:03] Iv1: its quite stupid
Ransei
[20:08:01] +Dream Eater Gengar:What's your opinion on Blaziken and Mega Salamence?
[20:08:26] Ransei: Mence (Sorry fren ;-;) **BAN*8
[20:08:32] Ransei: BAN
[20:08:33] +Dream Eater Gengar: nice failed bold
[20:08:51] Ransei: Blaziken Unban
[20:09:02] Ransei: Mega BlazikenAbstain
[20:09:05] +Dream Eater Gengar:reasons?
[20:09:20] Ransei: I'll explain the abstain first
[20:09:55] Ransei: I don't really feel that Mega Blaze is really broken for the various reasons I explained in OM chat earlier, but the reasons other people say it would be banned makes complete sense
[20:10:03] Ransei: some even I agree with
[20:11:09] Ransei: regular Blaziken can have items but regardless it is slower and has less power making it critically weak to alot choice scarf Pokemon who can wreck. Other than that, Blaziken doesn't do as much as Charizard-Mega-X even
[20:11:35] Ransei: I don't even think Blazi would be S
[20:11:50] Ransei: and for Mega Salamence...
[20:12:32] Ransei: That thing is a powerhouse. It kos so many things so fast without much of a problem and even I've exceeded 75+gxe and almost 1400 elo if not above just using a team of all 3 Salamences
[20:13:09] Ransei: any time you see me have 75% gxe or above in 1v1, you know I have at least one Salamence on that tea
[20:13:17] Ransei: team*
[21:10:33] +Dream Eater Gengar:What's your opinion on Blaziken and Mega Salamence?
[21:11:42] +Death on Wings: no bans
[21:11:48] +Death on Wings: unban blaze and m-blaze
[21:11:51] +Death on Wings: and dun ban mence
[21:11:51] +Dream Eater Gengar:reasons?
[21:12:03] +Death on Wings: blaze is beaten by a whole load of stuff in 1v1 tbh
[21:12:06] +Death on Wings: as is mence
[21:12:13] +Death on Wings: and I put like four essays in the thread lol
[21:12:16] +Death on Wings: which people ignored
[21:12:26] +Death on Wings: what do you think?


After that info collection we can predict that we are heading toward the road of Banning Mega Salamence and Mega Blaziken but keeping Blaziken, is it the best road to go?


My personal opinion:
Writing that report made me express both sides's feelings but where do I reside? My opinion remains unchanged, I'm voting Guilty on Blaziken and it's Mega for limiting the metagames choice and creating more 50/50s thanks to it's unpredictability from it's wide move pool and item. I also think that Mega Salamence doesn't need to be sent to the shadow realms because it can be checked by a good number of Pokemon and attacks get stopped by common Pokemon. While people say that it's wide move pool let it beat it's checks I believe by using such moves you will widen your weakness against another number of Pokemon, so you close hole and open others.

Where is the 1v1 metagame heading after this suspect? Is it drowning in an offensive spam meta or will it be balanced? Let's not forget that thinking outside the box helps in these situations and contribute in diversifying the meta. This suspect test will decide the fate of 1v1, will the worms shine and evolve and the birds fall down? Or will the worms continue living on the edge taking top foes by surprise? Choices... We decide.

NB: Not having to do with the suspect, but it's worth noting that Charm+Seismic toss Chansey might be an illegal set after all this time. The impact caused by that and the suspect will be wide enough to open the path to a new meta.
 

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