Ladder ORAS 1v1 [3v3 Team Preview]

FatCorgi

Banned deucer.
Confirming as Gogo 1v1
http://prntscr.com/9uwffc

I got to 2599, and about had a stroke when I lost.

Shoutouts to the guy who used 252hp 252+spDef togekiss who failed to flinch me to death all 12 games, that's divine justice.
I'm pretty sure I Ran into that guy, and you, multiple times. Were you running into the dude who didn't understand how ME First worked? lol
 
upload_2016-1-27_9-23-54.png

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-322855802

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 SpA
- hidden power electric(non mega gyara)
- Hydro Cannon
- Role Play(sturdy,blaziken)
- Grass Knot(mega gyara/blastoise, swampert)
A laughable set that won me the last 10 or so in a row and would only be effective at that exact time.
More proof cteaming is the way to go in 1v1(wasnt even running ice beam in the final 10 or so battles)
 

dom

Banned deucer.
View attachment 56206
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/1v1-322855802

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 SpA
- hidden power electric(non mega gyara)
- Hydro Cannon
- Role Play(sturdy,blaziken)
- Grass Knot(mega gyara/blastoise, swampert)
A laughable set that won me the last 10 or so in a row and would only be effective at that exact time.
More proof cteaming is the way to go in 1v1(wasnt even running ice beam in the final 10 or so battles)
Doesn't Blaziken just protect?
 
Bit last minute, but here are my reqs

Note that most of my losses were to my 'broken' team (mega salamence, mega blaziken, coverage). For those who still believe they are broken :^)

UPDATE Reqs with coil available
 

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Rumplestiltskin

I will rain lels all over you and you will drown in them
OK, so from seeing the chat on PS! during the suspect it seems to me that a lot of people want Blaziken unbanned, with the justification of the likes of "it can lose to common threats", can we discuss this?

I made a post before the suspect started, outlining how Blaziken would affect the meta, and added a few more notes and calc's during the suspect.
Something I'd like to add is that in conclusion, Blaziken has way too many viable sets which makes it pretty much impossible to prepare for it with pretty much anything bar hard counters, which there isn't many of.

To the people, and more importantly, voters who want Blaziken unbanned: Am I wrong about what I said about Blaziken in my post, and if so, why? And if I'm right about my post, why should Blaziken be unbanned anyway?
 

Ransei

Guardian of Wonder
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Because Rumplestiltskin wants more discussions and descriptions on this thread. I will post why I think Blaziken isn't that broken.

Let's go with the counterclaim arguments.
People say that Blaziken should be banned over Mega Blaziken mainly because Life Orb does more damage. From calculations, I discovered that STAB moves usually do 10% percent and non STAB does about 4-6% more using Life Orb Blaziken than on Mega Blaziken. Blaziken on the other hand is quite frail and has a mediocore base speed of 80. 80 Base speed makes Blaziken able to get outsped by many common scarfed Pokemon like Porygon-Z, Kyurem-Black, and Genesect and since Blaziken has 70 base defense, the Pokemon are able to OHKO Blaziken more. When using Blaziken, I also noticed that Blaziken has to rely on OHKOing other opponents, but doesn't always succeed. It has a really hard time trying to KO Pokemon like Togekiss and Charizard-Mega-X who both survive Stone Edge and usually they OHKO Blaziken instead. Blaziken can also be tanked by fairly high defensive Pokemon as even they manage to win. Blaziken can sometimes beat Pokemon sometimes like Kyurem-Black (when it doesn't have choice scarf), and Greninja but at the same time as Rumplestiltskin says, many Pokemon can run anything they want to out of the options they have and regular Blaziken is stuck with Life Orb the majority of the time. Pokemon like Whimsicott (if Occa Berry) as it can survive Blaziken's other options like Brave Bird and Poison Jab, and Venusaur who are weak to Blaziken can survive and win. Venusaur with the reason of Sludge Bomb and Sleep Powder which Venusaurs usually have. It might not be that good to rely on Sleep Powder all of the time but it has a 75% chance of hitting but at the same time, High Jump Kick has 90% accuracy and its heavily relied on when it can miss. Blaziken on the other hand has to have Brave Bird to 2HKO when at the same time, but it has 4 moveslot syndrome and Brave Bird isn't usually a top priority option for Blaziken. Whimicott in the other hand can survive any of Blaziken's moves if it has an Occa Berry just about enough to win. Blaziken does have speed boost to go along with the physical offense it has but Mega Blaziken takes advantage of this way more. With just enough speed to take care of the biggest threats and 10 more bulk, it has a higher chance of surviving moves that Blaziken usually doesn't and it can go again and take another turn. Regular Blaziken pars well with Blaziken-Mega on usual cases but I can't even find how Blaziken limits the meta after using it for many battles. I mean, it does have a physical and special side of it but nobody is really trying to prepare for it and they still win. Charizard-Mega-X usually preforms better than Blaziken as Blaziken has a hard time defeating it anyways, Even with Stone Edge. Reversal in the other hand sounds like a strategy that can be used really well on Blaziken but Blaziken would have to stall its way into several turns leaving opponents to be able to do whatever they want. I'm not referring this to a few Pokemon but to the whole metagame itself; many Pokemon now have access to Substitute and Taunt. I can't really compare Blaziken to Pokemon like Mawile-Mega, Kyurem-Black, and Porygon-Z. These Pokemon are faster or more bulky and they carry more offensive power. While Blaziken has offensive power too, it isn't always the best, even with life orb. Choice Band Blaziken is also an option but Blaziken would have to attack on the first turn and with 80 base speed, the majority of the metagame like Charizard, Garchomp, and Kyurem-B can outspeed. People may say that you can run anything you can in 1v1, but Pokemon like Blaziken are far better with only the certain few 2-3 sets it may have physically and specially. I wouldn't really mind if Blaziken was banned or not but I really just feel like it doesn't do enough. I heard Poison Jab mentioned but Poison Jab is a move usually outclassed by the common moves like Flare Blitz, even if super effective. Blaziken does have niches but they also always the most successful for the reason I explained. When I think of Blaziken, I can compare it to a lot of the B-ranked Pokemon instead of S. The B-ranked Pokemon like Crustle and Blastoise preform powerful niches but at the same time, they also have many weaknesses and Uses don't have to try to counter it most of the time. When comparing Blaziken to a lot of the B-ranked Pokemon, A-rank seems just right for it because of Speed Boost and how Blaziken raises speed every turn. Medicham and Lopunny may be turned down due to Blaziken (and if you really love them then I suggest you think about banning Blaziken), but Blaziken and how it deals with the metagame isn't as significant as the famous Charizard and Mawile. Swords Dance is also a pretty common move on Blaziken, but Blaziken only truly feels safe to use it when its against a stall Pokemon due to how frail it can be.

If anyone disagrees with me so much, I would like you to post more about why as well.
Also, I heard an argument that Blaziken can beat Mega Alakazam, it's really a rare chance it would ever be able to, even if regular Blaziken had Blaze. You ladder so much and you see half the Alakazams not mega evolving on the first turn and Alakazam-Mega is still fast enough to outspeed.
 
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My question is how many battles is blaziken going to lose by not having the mega option? I understand the stat difference but i feeel non mega blaziken would win 90% of the battles mega-kin would win. Correct me if im wrong
You aren't wrong at all. Mega Blaziken is a weaker Special and Physical attacker then ordinary life orb Blaziken.

252+ Atk Life Orb Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 265-312 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Blaziken Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 269-317 (78.8 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 252-297 (73.9 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Blaziken Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Blaziken's only relevant advantage is 20 speed, which helps it beat scarf pokemon such as Kyurem-B and Porygon-Z. So if you think Mega Blaziken is broken you really ought to vote no unban on regular Blaziken as well. Regular Blaziken can simply double protect to gain the extra speed 1/3 the time. That isn't uncommon either, its slightly higher percentage than scald burns. Even with the small speed difference Blaziken still retains all the broken qualities of it's Megas. Its not like winning one or two more matchups is a deal breaker.

Ransei Addressing your points:

  • Blaziken isn't stuck with Life Orb, its just the optimal item. It wants to beat things down and Life Orb is best suited for it because Speed Boost+protect prevents choice items. If the Mega Stone was unbanned that would probably be better for non special sets. There really isn't any other items to run on fast frail attackers. This "limit" doesn't apply to Blaz alone, it also applies to things like Greninja and Porygon-Z.
  • You did mention quite a few things that check Blaziken, like Occa Berry Whismicott, which is specfically designed to counter would be Fire type physical attacker checks. Mega Venusaur isn't actually weak to Blaziken's fire STAB thanks to Thick Fat. You also listed Togekiss, which resists fighting type and hits back super effectively. Most checks that people have listed resist at least one STAB and hit back SE. These pokemon should be expected to win and don't really sell Blaziken as "not broken"
  • Saying it isn't comparable to x s rank pokemons is a weak argument. It is entirely possible Kyurem-B and Mega Mawile are found to be broken in a potential suspect test and are banned.
I voted no unban to Blaziken because I felt it would limit the meta toward Scarf Mons and Bulky offensive Pokemon. Bulky defensive Pokemon will be extremely limited in the presence of Blaziken.

As for Mega Salamence I've said what I wanted to say here and here. I don't feel like my points were properly answered by the opposition, (they were totally ignored) I won't say much more. I just want to respond to Dream Eater Gengar's argument. DEG's argument seems to boil down to "it can't beat all of its would be counters in moveset because 4ms." Well Giga Impact+Outrage on the standard set beat the vast majority of pokemon in 1v1. Fire Blast and Earthquake are only needed for Steel types, so its okay to "miss out" on coverage because in reality the "holes" are incredibly small. Unless people start changing their vote, Blaziken will not be unbanned. What makes Blaziken more broken then Mega Mence? Mega Mence is so much more powerful and limiting in the meta. I'm just going to leave the Mence set i used to help me get reqs on here. It was an incredible set, with the flexibility to beat several would be counters. Blaziken can't run anything this good. So why keep Mega Mence when Blaziken is clearly too good for the meta?
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Beam
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Dance
 

The Immortal

They Don't Want None
is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Other Metas Leader
Updated the common sets. Mega Charizard X has moved above Mega Charizard Y. Mega Gyarados is now more common than both Greninja and Dragonite. Substitute is now more common than Earthquake on Mega Charizard X. Ancient Power is more common on Mega Charizard Y than before. Iron Head is less common on Kyurem Black.
 

DEG

ADIOS COMPADRES
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After the last round of suspect Mega Salamence was banned and Blaziken wasn't allowed to stay in the 1v1 territory, on another note we might see an illegality in the standard Charm+Seismic Toss Chansey set (This hasn't been confirmed 100% yet). That sends us to a new world of 1v1, removing an offensive threat from the metagame freeing a team slot and we could see the fall of a defensive wall, that opens spots to new 1v1 heros. Which Pokemon do you think will arise and envelop itself with a cape? Is the metagame in a healthy state or are there more holes? Do you think we will call another ascended Pokemon to lend us a hand?

New heroes are born everyday implicitly, it is our duty to find them. I packed up my stuff and went on a journey disguised as a 1v1 schoolgirl to study the comportment of Pokemon in the 1v1 land. I was welcomed by a mass of new Pokemon trying to make up a name for themselves in the area now that others are gone. I walked through the city took notes on my notebook then sat on the back of a my Kyurem-Black and organized my information, this is what I've come to:


The disappearing of Mega Salamence made a lot of offensive threats more viable, I mean they weren't bad before but they just got better! What I have noticed in my exploration is that we got a rise in Mega Pinsir. It was shadowed by Mega Salamence thanks to a better typing and move pool yet sharing the same ability. Let's stop for a moment at Mega Pinsir.


Target Name: Mega Pinsir
Ability: Aerilate
Useful acquired moves: Endure, Protect, Giga Impact, Flail, Feint, Quick Attack, Close Combat, Sword Dance, Return, Earthquake
Threat Rank: A

After collecting these information about Mega Pinsir, I started noting common sets it can toy with to prey on the foe's Pokemon, it uses its wings to fly around and cause damage, steel Pokemon tries to break it but they are sent back home with a Close Combat or an Earthquake. What are the most effective Pinsir sets you say? I'll show you!

Set name: Can you endure the wind?
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter/Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endure
- Flail
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake / Close Combat

Thanks to its capability of learning Endure, Pinsir can utilize a powerful flail set. Endure allows Pinsir to concentrate its force in its body shielding it from strong attacks making it live with 1 HP, that's not bad because Flail has more power when the user has less HP left which makes reducing Pinsir HP to as minimal as possible to trump card behind this set. Well, in case Flail doesn't OHKO Quick attack is here to save the day, let's not forget that both of them gains STAB and are boosted by Aerilate! Earthquake is present to take on pesky steel types, (Even though it doesn't beat them most of the time) or you can opt for the alternative Close Combat which doesn't care about air balloons (Yes you heatran). It can toy with two abilities before Mega Evolving, hyper cutter or mold breaker. While Mold breaker is better at defeating sturdy users it doesn't really need it because Hyper Cutter has more advantages. How so? Intimidate! The use of Intimidate has become redundant from Mega Gyarados to Mega Mawile they are able to check Mega Pinsir easier with Intimidate but worry not Hyper Cutter allows it to not feel intimidated and keeps it composure so it can defeat them!

Set name: Salamence 2.0
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect / Sword Dance
- Giga Impact
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake / Close Combat

Hmm, what's better than a good ol' Mega Salamence set incarnated in Mega Pinsir? Well there's nothing to add here except the fact that protect is used to outspeed Charizard after Mega Evolving, or you can opt for Sword Dance for better wall breaking capabilities.

Pokemon that it can beat: Charizard-Mega-Y, Gardevoir-Mega, Meloetta, Sylveon, Gyarados, Venusaur-Mega
Pokemon that it loses to: Bulky fire types, Kyurem-Black, Heatran, Aggron, Dragonite, Garchomp
Possibility of beating: Charizard-Mega-X, Porygon-Z, Lopunny-Mega
Good Teamates: Mega Pinsir likes to pair with Pokemon that can take on steel types and other problematic Pokemon; Kyurem-Black, Charizard-Mega-X, Porygon-Z, Mawile Mega, Heatran.


Other offensive threat will see more usage such as Mega Gyarados, Dragonite, Garchomp now that Mega Salamence left the metagame adding to that the lack of Chansey also gives offensive threats a Pokemon less to worry about, head over Playstyle archetype to know such physical offensive threats. Noting that I will be needing help to complete the guide if you want to help hmu with a PM.

As for a solid defensive backbone, Mega Slowbro has proved itself to be the one. Indeed, it has high defensive stats which paired with a physically offensive metagame pays off. It has the ability to keep in check a lot of viable Pokemon such as Kyurem-Black, Mega Mawile, Mega Charizard X (Now only if it had charm!). However Mega Slowbro doesn't have specially defensive stats to mix with its defensive stats but that doesn't make it a defensive threat! Let's not forget it's movepool and typing that works well together.


Target Name: Mega Slowbro
Ability: Shell Armor
Useful acquired moves: Iron Defense, Amnesia, Rest, Slack Off, Scald, Thunder Wave, Flame Thrower, Foul Play.
Threat Rank: A

Set Name: How do I die again?
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 112 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Rest / Slack Off
- Scald

Thanks to Iron Defense, it can boost its defenses faster than most setup sweepers can boost their offensive stats and proceed to burn its foes with Scald and slowly whittle them down or PP stall them if they have recovery. While normally this tactic would be thwarted by a single crit, Mega Slowbro's ability comes in handy here, giving it an immunity to them. Like the offensive Pokemon, it has a number of options: Rest allows it to beat status users and PP stall a lot of other common stall Pokemon, while Slack Off allows it to do better against offensive Pokemon, such as allowing it to beat Mega Mawile without having to fish for a burn. It can run Calm Mind over Amnesia to bolster its offensive presence, and it can even run Counter to catch physical attackers by surprise.
Thanks Articuno I for that.

Pokemon it beats: Most physical attackers notably Mega Mawile, Kyurem-Black, Mega Charizard X, Sawk, Mega Pinsir
Pokemon it loses to: Most special attackers notably Porygon-Z, Meloetta, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur
Good Team mates: Meloetta, Kyurem-Black, Latios, Deoxys-Defense.


Minimal changes were brought to the metagame after Mega Salamence's ban, Greninja can now run Modest as it no longer needs to outspeed a specific Pokemon, random ice beam users can now opens a spot for a better move, Kyurem-Black can now go full physical oriented without worrying about packing Ice Beam.

That's all thanks for reading. Which Pokemon do you think got better? Anything worth banning? Share your opinion!
I'd write more but I got too lazy...



 

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