ORAS FU Metagame Discussion (old)

[Politoad]

Every defogger except Prinplup is shit[/HIDE]

Actually I think Vullaby is a nice Defogger too. I know it is easily beaten by Electric-types and Ice-types (from which the only common ones ar aurorus electabuzz and lapras), but it checks actually a lot of common physical threats. Few examples:

252 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 106-126 (30.8 - 36.6%) -- 61.9% chance to 3HKO (If Fraxure does decide to set up, Vullaby can phaze it out with Whirlwind or 2HKO it with Foul Play (If you hit it on the turn Fraxure sets up, you win.

4 Atk Gogoat Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 24-28 (6.9 - 8.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever (one of the biggest threats in the current metagame is completely walled, you can just Toxic it and win)

252 Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 142-168 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (threaten it with toxic / foul play, roost up n win)

252+ Atk Krokorok Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 102-122 (29.6 - 35.4%) -- 23.8% chance to 3HKO (Toxic it, roost up n win)

However, I do agree that Vullaby's weak point lies in it being weak to Stealth Rock, but immune to all other hazards. It can Roost back the Stealth Rock damage though. It isn't set up bait either, as you can phaze opponents out with Whirlwind. Overall, eeven despite the fact that it is weak to Stealth Rock, I think Vullaby is actually a pretty okay defogger.

nice +1 252+ Atk Machoke Dynamic Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 + Def Eviolite Bronzor: 118-141 (37.1 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, this is if you dont count reflect, i hope bronzor get more used in this new OM

Actually, Machoke can Knock Off its Eviolite and DynamicPunch it after to death. Also, Bronzor loses to Electabuzz, Gabite and the aforementioned Machoke, all of which are common threats in the meta game, because it lacks reliable recovery and has a limited move pool.

>hear about PU coming out
>"Yes! My bro Dunsparce can finally tear some shit up!"
>it's garb still
>hear about FU
M-Maybe this time he'll have a chance to shine? His ParaFlinch skills are p-pretty useful, right?

I personally doubt so myself, it hasn't got a good typing at all, and its usable options in its movepool aren't very good either iirc. Furthermore, with Machoke and Electabuzz, hanging around, Dunsparce won't probably good at all. It also lost the niche of not being able to paraflinch Electric-types. Its attack is pretty underaverage too, and if Dunsparce is stat used itself, its left useless. Its defenses are okay, but sadly Dunsparce also lacks reliable recovery, meaning it can't keep on taking hits from a certain Pokémon. While they cannot paraflinch opponents, Ursaring and Purugly are probably way superior normal.types because they have an actual good attack stat and these are relatively fast. (If Ursaring runs Quick Feet)

 

[Harumonia Naturia]

but sadly Dunsparce also lacks reliable recovery

It learns Roost, kid!!!

 

[Fisherman Walter]

A defogger that has been overlooked is staravia, as I can see it carving a nice niche in the meta.

Staravia @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Feather Dance
- Brave Bird

A defensive staravia may seem ridiculous, but intimidate and eviolite make it considerably bulky. The selling point of staravia is not its statistical bulk, but the fact that it gets feather dance, stopping set up sweepers in their tracks. I have not played very much FU, but it seeps like a lot of top tier threats need to set up to be effective. Sticky web seems to be the way to go for offense, and this could be a cool thing to use for stopping that.


-1 252 Atk Choice Band Kingler Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 118-139 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (hyper cutter is more annoying)
252 Atk Mold Breaker Fraxure Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 132-156 (42 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (switching into a DD)
-1 252+ Atk Krokorok Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Staravia: 86-102 (27.3 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

 

[Politoad]

It learns Roost, kid!!!

That may be so, but regardless, it remains a mediocre Pokemon in the metagame.

 

[slated]

I laddered to #1 today and I really wanted to talk about one certain pokemon which was really good in its performance in my laddering session.

Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- U-turn
- X-Scissor
- Night Slash

With the prevalence of Sub + BU Gogoat, Ninjask really finds a chance to shine. Ninjask doesn't really get the opportunity to switch in on much in the metagame, but it gives a CB STAB U-Turn off of 306 attack which dents even the most physically defensive pokemon. (it does about 25% to standard Klang off of a resisted hit, which is nothing less than impressive.) It hits over 400 speed which lets it outspeed the whole non-scarfed metagame, and most of the scarf metagame. Aerial Ace easily 2hkos machoke, doing about 60% with this set. It outspeeds every relevant Dragon Dance user in the entire tier (for Fraxure that tries to DD on you, both Aerial Ace and X-Scissor 2hko. It works as a very nice momentum regainer and revenge killer for a lot of different pokemon. I urge you to try it out, especially if you're having trouble with bulky Substitute setup sweepers.

 

[Politoad]

I also laddered to #1 just a second ago, and this Pokemon has been really good when I was laddering.

Staravia @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- U-turn
- Quick Attack / Pursuit

This thing hits like a truck with an extremely powerful STAB-combination of Brave Bird and Double-Edge (which are boosted by STAB + Reckless) and is able to take on really big threats in the meta game. It surprises DD Fraxure if it tries to set up on you, because of Brave Bird 2HKOing it (if hit on the turn it sets up) and out speeds when Fraxure is at +1. It also is a really good check to Machoke and a counter to Gogoat, which are two other big threats in the current metagame. It also is quite nice for beating weakened Pokemon at half, because of Staravia's great raw power. It can use U-turn to switch out of its checks and counters, and keep up the momentum. Quick Attack is in the last slot for picking off Pokemon at 10-15% with moving first, and without having to risk recoil, but Pursuit can be used to trap Psychic-types such as Meowstic and also hits uncommon Ghost-types such as Shedinja (which cannot switch out without having to take a hit, unlike when using Brave Bird). As mentioned in the post before this one about Ninjask, Staravia can keep up momentum for teams but is also a great revenge killer because of its high Speed and great raw power.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

I found a pretty broken strategy in Yamask and Slaking
Basically Yamask has Eject Button, take a contact move, switches to Slaking
Slaking use pursuit if they try to switch, gains mummy, loses Truant
Slaking can sweep and if set up on Machoke, Machoke loses no guard for Dynamic punch
IDK if this is viable or works 100% but its broken in a way

 

[Politoad]

I found a pretty broken strategy in Yamask and Slaking
Basically Yamask has Eject Button, take a contact move, switches to Slaking
Slaking use pursuit if they try to switch, gains mummy, loses Truant
Slaking can sweep and if set up on Machoke, Machoke loses no guard for Dynamic punch
IDK if this is viable or works 100% but its broken in a way

Thing is, Eject Button does not ensure you go into Slaking - It can go into any Pokemon. You basically need 2 Pokemon (Yamask and Slaking) for that to work perfectly.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Thing is, Eject Button does not ensure you go into Slaking - It can go into any Pokemon. You basically need 2 Pokemon (Yamask and Slaking) for that to work perfectly.

Eject Button does enable you to choose a Pokemon to switch into. I'm not sure if the strategy itself is good but it /can/ work in theory. Doubt it though; Yamask is basically dead weight after the strategy is executed and I'm not sure one whole teamslot is worth it.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

Eject Button does enable you to choose a Pokemon to switch into. I'm not sure if the strategy itself is good but it /can/ work in theory. Doubt it though; Yamask is basically dead weight after the strategy is executed and I'm not sure one whole teamslot is worth it.

I tried it out myself, it works out like 100% of the time, doesn't matter Yamask dies, so long as it's hit by a contact move, pursuit guarantees Slak gets the ability since only switching out can get rid of it, I'm thinking of trying it on Regigigas too, it can only be stopped by dry passing or VoltTurn.

 

[Politoad]

Eject Button does enable you to choose a Pokemon to switch into. I'm not sure if the strategy itself is good but it /can/ work in theory. Doubt it though; Yamask is basically dead weight after the strategy is executed and I'm not sure one whole teamslot is worth it.

Ah, my bad. I thought it was like Red Card, where you're forced into a random other Pokemon.

edit;

I tried it out myself, it works out like 100% of the time, doesn't matter Yamask dies, so long as it's hit by a contact move, pursuit guarantees Slak gets the ability since only switching out can get rid of it, I'm thinking of trying it on Regigigas too, it can only be stopped by dry passing or VoltTurn.

I don't know if the strategy is worth it, because if Yamask is not hit by a contact move and it gets KOed, that's two wasted moveslot. Also, Regigigas doesn't learn Pursuit, so I'm afraid that won't work.

 

[Grim]

Yamask + Slaking is just a shitty gimmick. It can work sometimes, but most of the time Slaking won't sweep even with mummy, and the strategy is way too obvious. By hitting Yamask with something that Slaking can not afford to use pursuit on, like Machoke, you easily stop it. Special attackers work too.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

,

Ah, my bad. I thought it was like Red Card, where you're forced into a random other Pokemon.

edit;



I don't know if the strategy is worth it, because if Yamask is not hit by a contact move and it gets KOed, that's two wasted moveslot. Also, Regigigas doesn't learn Pursuit, so I'm afraid that won't work.

Lol just don't put Yamask on a special attackers, its more of a gimmicky strategy that works, I've used it as a late game clean up/sweep, since slaking can get worn down fast w/o slack off.

Yamask + Slaking is just a shitty gimmick. It can work sometimes, but most of the time Slaking won't sweep even with mummy, and the strategy is way too obvious. By hitting Yamask with something that Slaking can not afford to use pursuit on, like Machoke, you easily stop it. Special attackers work too.

Edit:
Machoke gains mummy btw, which causes dynamic punch to be awful and miss, most of its other STAB isn't commonly used

Not commenting on this anymore, just don't believe it, but if you see it, be warned that it works

 

[newfren]

Mighty Mummyking making a resurgence. The thing about this strategy is that your opponent has to hit yamask with a contact move, and if they know about how the strategy works, it just doesn't.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Yamask + Slaking is just a shitty gimmick. It can work sometimes, but most of the time Slaking won't sweep even with mummy, and the strategy is way too obvious. By hitting Yamask with something that Slaking can not afford to use pursuit on, like Machoke, you easily stop it. Special attackers work too.

I dunno sometimes it's really difficult because they can switch in Yamask anytime they want, so it's not that easy to never use a contact move when Yamask is alive

 

[Politoad]

Edit:
Machoke gains mummy btw, which causes dynamic punch to be awful and miss, most of its other STAB isn't commonly used

Machoke isn't the only mon in the metagame. What do you think about stuff such as Electabuzz? They have no real problems having their ability removed, so that means that the Regigigas strategy won't really work, I thnik. Also, in my battle vs you, you used it as a lead :x

 

[Clarisaxx22]

Machoke isn't the only mon in the metagame. What do you think about stuff such as Electabuzz? They have no real problems having their ability removed, so that means that the Regigigas strategy won't really work, I thnik. Also, in my battle vs you, you used it as a lead :x

Lol I was testing it and I only used Slaking and Yamask

 

[Grim]

,

Lol just don't put Yamask on a special attackers, its more of a gimmicky strategy that works, I've used it as a late game clean up/sweep, since slaking can get worn down fast w/o s

Edit:
Machoke gains mummy btw, which causes dynamic punch to be awful and miss, most of its other STAB isn't commonly used

It gets Guts too right? Many people prefer Guts over No Guard most of the time, including me. The strategy is probably a little better than in PU since there is no poliwrath or throh, but still not something you should be using seriously.

 

[newfren]

It gets Guts too right? Many people prefer Guts over No Guard most of the time, including me. The strategy is probably a little better than in PU since there is no poliwrath or throh, but still not something you should be using seriously.

Although when you aren't using it seriously it is a fucking blast let me tell you.

So I was watching Volbeatdown ladder and he was running a cool offense team with CB ninjask (probably the exact one libluc posted up there) and SD Jumpluff on it.
Gotta say, Jumpluff really impressed me with how much work it could put in with just its 2 stabs. Sleep powder let VBD shut down threats to his team like evio metang while jumpluff's great speed tier let it put in work against opposing offense teams. It also matches up really well against gogoat, boosting up faster than the goat and acrobating right through its sub. Definitely a cool pokemon to try out.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

I've been using/seeing this set for Machoke, its quite common and effective:
Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

Dynamic Punch is the choice STAB since No Guard cures it awful 50% accuracy, with the nice 100% confusion.
Knock Off gets rid of the ever present eviolite while doing a sold chunk to most Pokemon
Earthquake is for coverage and destroying Metang
Bullet Punch is when you need to revenge or finish off a weakened opponent
It's a solid set that gets rid of most walls

 

[Politoad]

I've been using/seeing this set for Machoke, its quite common and effective:
Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

Dynamic Punch is the choice STAB since No Guard cures it awful 50% accuracy, with the nice 100% confusion.
Knock Off gets rid of the ever present eviolite while doing a sold chunk to most Pokemon
Earthquake is for coverage and destroying Metang
Bullet Punch is when you need to revenge or finish off a weakened opponent
It's a solid set that gets rid of most walls

I personally use Poison Jab over Bullet Punch to hit Spritzee way harder, and also Ice Punch for Gogoat and Flying-types. Thoughts? Though this set is pretty amazing.

 

[Clarisaxx22]

I personally use Poison Jab over Bullet Punch to hit Spritzee way harder. Thoughts? Though this set is pretty amazing.

It's worth running but spritzee isn't too common, otherwise it only hits jumpluff and gogoat and the rare sawsbuck(<<idk why sawbuck isn't used a lot?)

 

[Clarisaxx22]

I've gone into a little research on Gast, it can run a somewhat viable(probably isn't) scarf set with its 100 base SpA and 80 base Spe

Gastly Choice Scarf
Ability:Levitate
252 SpA/252 Spe /4 anything that doesn't matter
Modest nature
-Sludge Wave
-Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt
-Dazzling Gleam/Icy Wind/Energy Ball
-Giga Drain/Toxic/HP Ground/fighting
Sludge Wave is the go to STAB/spam attack
Shadow Ball for Metang/Grumpig/Meowstic
Thunderbolt for Swanna, Articuno, waters not named Whiscash
Dazzling Gleam for Frax, Machoke, Zweilous, Scraggy, anything fairy weak
Icy wind for ice weak stuff cough jumpluff cough
Energy ball/giga drain for Whiscash and rock/ground
Toxic for, well, toxic, not very wise
hp Ground and Fighting for steels(great for lairon)
Gastly should only be used when most Pokemon are worn down past half, since most of the time it 2hkos, excellent for revenge,

Edit:
Sludge wave> icy wind on everything, energy ball is better cuz more power and you have awful defenses, out speeds everything but scarfers and ninjask, sludge wave is very spammable and does more damage than some 2x weaknesses

 

[Martin]

srs y is Meowstic-M in here .-.

This sounds fun tho.

 

[skies]

So I've been using Scald / Ice Beam / Superpower / Toxic on Kingler lately and it's a really neat set so far. Scald is admittedly weaker than Crabhammer, as Kingler only has 50 SpA, so Crabhammer > Scald, but Sheer Force Ice Beam is useful to smack around switchins like Gabite without worry of Rough Skin, Leavanny, Gogoat, the other Dragon- and Grass-types, and Krokorok without worry of Intimidate. Superpower catches Scraggy and achieves maximum coverage. Toxic is just... Toxic, it's useful and hits Shedinja. So yeah. Experimenting with wallbreaking sets.