Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[jbtc10]

Pretty sure SpD Gliscor carries Taunt, so between SubTect Aegi's temporary immunity can wear out pretty fast and gets prevented from Magnet Rising again, while Gliscor easily tanks and heals off Aegislash's hits. Aegi would also struggle trying not to expose itself in Blade Stance as it attacks into Protect or give Gliscor a free Sub as it King's Shield (I don't even think Magnet Rise Aegi has room for this); the matchup is very difficult for Aegi unless it gets lucky SpD drops from Shadow Ball or just carries HP Ice (which, tbh, might not be too farfetch'd considering its newfound advantage against Landorus and TankChomp). If Gliscor carries Knock Off, Aegi would most likely definitely lose as Gliscor can easily threaten a KO on Blade Stance Aegi even as it is floating. Meanwhile, Gliscor has a much easier time against other Aegi variants.

SpD Gliscor is by far the most consistent all-around Aegislash counter I've seen, but it's kind of the only one right now; other counters can get clipped by certain sets, or even beat only one Aegislash variant.

Amoongus is arguably even more reliable than Gliscor. It takes much less damage from Shadow Ball and has Regen, meaning it isn't basically forced to use a Recovery move each time it takes a Shadow Ball, hence give them a free switch into a Gliscor check, and can put the free turn to immediate use by using Spore for example. It also under-speeds it and KO's with Foul Play, can't be lured by HP-Ice, doesn't give a single shit about Sub Toxic sets either, and handles other prominent S-threats like Keldeo and Altaria.

 

[Punchshroom]

Amoongus is arguably even more reliable than Gliscor. It takes much less damage from Shadow Ball and has Regen, meaning it isn't basically forced to use a Recovery move each time it takes a Shadow Ball, hence give them a free switch into a Gliscor check, and can put the free turn to immediate use by using Spore for example. It also under-speeds it and KO's with Foul Play, can't be lured by HP-Ice, doesn't give a single shit about Sub Toxic sets either, and handles other prominent S-threats like Keldeo and Altaria.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 425-500 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO, guaranteed after SR

Considering Amoonguss usually goes for mixed bulk instead of fully physically defensive (in order to handle the likes of Keldeo and Altaria at once), even weaker attacks like Iron Head can put Amoonguss in a very tight spot (+2 252 Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Amoonguss: 386-456 (89.3 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO, guaranteed after SR).

Before people go on to say that SD Aegislash is mediocre, the fact that it can break numerous defensive cores (Amoonguss is just one of many victims; others can include Heatran and Mandibuzz) means one still has to take SD Aegislash into account.

 

[Clone]

It's stance dance that sucks (SD KS Sneak Sword). LO SD sets are a legit threat and probably the most effective variants of Aegislash rn since they Punch massive holes in opposing teams (as you already said).

 

[jbtc10]

Head Smash has always been pretty gimmicky from what I've seen because in order for it to even really work properly, you have to speed creep things like Mandi which means sacrificing even more of your already low HP stat and with the massive recoil from both Head Smash and LO, you basically kill yourself in the process of trying to get past your counters, so their counters end up doing their jobs all the same. The 80% accuracy is also a thing and gives away free turns every now and then. It's usable of course, but sets running it don't really need to be factored in when team building because Aegi kills himself rapidly when using it anyway.

 

[haunter]

Please discuss Aegislash and its effects on the metagame in the np: suspect thread.

 

[bludz]

So this might be a little controversial but I wanna stir the pot. I've actually started to think that Mega Altaria is the "best" mega evolution in OU currently (I guess there are different ways to define this).

While Mega Metagross (the titleholder for a while now) has all it needs right from the start - fantastic stats, a great ability and great coverage, it really only has 2 sets with some different coverage options. It's a tank/sweeper/wallbreaker all rolled into one, but it's only an offensive mon really. That's not taking anything away from it - it has plenty of advantages over Altaria, particularly speed - however it you really only need to prepare for a few different variations of Metagross which is admittedly still quite difficult.

Mega Altaria can be many different things, and on top of that has one of the best defensive typings in the game and a great movepool. It checks (and can counter most of these threats if bulky) Zard X, Zard Y, Mega Gyarados, Latios, Garchomp, Mega Lopunny, Keldeo, Mega Sableye and that's only A+ rank in the viability rankings and up (er I threw in Mega Gyarados I guess). This actually relieves a major constraint when teambuilding since it usually takes 2-3 slots (if not more, heh) to check this range of pokemon, and on top of that Altaria is versatile enough to fit in with pretty much any team. Just as an additional note, the mixed wallbreaker set is quite underrated and has very few good switch-ins.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts?

 

[jordanthejq12]

I'm wondering what you guys think about Goodra as a check to Serperior.

Goodra is one of only two OU-ranked Pokemon with Sap Sipper, and unlike Azumarill it doesn't have another ability many players would consider "better". It's incredibly bulky on the special side, and one of its best sets (if not its best period) is an Assault Vest set, further enhancing that bulk. It can switch in on a Leaf Storm for free because of Sap Sipper, and due to Leaf Storm's low PP even burning one can cost a player. While Serperior does have Dragon Pulse, and will almost certainly carry it because of its poor special movepool, Goodra can still force it out, as Serperior needs to be at +4 to guarantee a 2HKO, while Goodra threatens a OHKO after rocks with Fire Blast. While Goodra tends to be easily prepared for by the simple nature of Clefable and Mega Altaria being everywhere, it still has the valuable niche of being able to shut down one of the most dangerous threats in the game.

 

[Jaguar360]

Speaking of Goodra, I've been using Specs Goodra for a bit and it works pretty well as a pivot. Even with Specs, it still has great special bulk and hits harder in return with its very powerful Draco Meteor and strong coverage options. Specs Sludge Wave also has a chance to 2HKO Unaware Clefable and bulky Mega Alt after Rocks, so that's cool. It's also a soft check to Lando-I, though Rocks or Spikes with get it 2HKOed by Earth Power. Draco Meteor does get the OHKO though and Muddy Water and Dragon Pulse can also get the job done. Kind of competes with Dragalge, but the greater bulk and speed make a difference. Unfortunately, many of OU's special attackers carry super-effective coverage or Psyshock, which can stink of Goodra switches into one of those. Still, Specs Goodra is definitely underrated, as is Goodra as a whole.

Goodra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe (160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe for speed creep against Rotom-W and defensive Lando-T)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast / Muddy Water
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Ice Beam

calcs for your troubles

Offensive:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 286-337 (81.2 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 157-185 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 292-344 (95.1 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 292-344 (82.4 - 97.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 289-342 (68.3 - 80.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 268-316 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 370-436 (96.8 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 294-346 (97 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 207-245 (76.1 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 292-344 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 278-328 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Muddy Water vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 210-248 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 352-415 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Muddy Water vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 326-384 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Muddy Water vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 254-300 (60.4 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 274-324 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 324-382 (112.1 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 300-354 (103.8 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 208-246 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celebi: 223-264 (55.3 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Defensive Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 161-191 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 147-174 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Dragon Pulse vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 117-140 (30.7 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 126-150 (33 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 117-140 (30.7 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 109-129 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 98% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Goodra: 142-169 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Thing hits pretty damn hard.

Band Goodra might be something consider as well to get past things like Chansey, especially now that Goodra's physical movepool has widened with ORAS move tutors (Superpower, Fire Punch, Aqua Tail, Thunder Punch). 100 base attack with a Band is also respectable. I haven't used this quite yet though.

 

[Random Passerby]

i'm not sure if this is the right place for this

It isn't. Teams are posted in the RMT section. However, if you want to make a post there, better include set descriptions and what role each member play or the thread will be locked. Since you are new to competitive OU, you might also want to find a mentor or sign up for Battling 101.

 

[Master B8s]

Hey guys, I just checked Slowbros smogon dex, and there isn't a set up for its mega. I know most people run special bulk because its base 180 Defense is more than enough, but idk what ev spread is "standard" does anyone have thoughts on a benchmark for its stats?

 

[p2]

Hey guys, I just checked Slowbros smogon dex, and there isn't a set up for its mega. I know most people run special bulk because its base 180 Defense is more than enough, but idk what ev spread is "standard" does anyone have thoughts on a benchmark for its stats?

I think 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD with a Bold Nature is the "standard"

I don't remember what it does exactly, but I saw it going around a lot when ORAS released

 

[Master B8s]

I think 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD with a Bold Nature is the "standard"

Thank you :]

 

[Facts]

What you guys expect with the (maybe) return of Aegislash ?
No fairy ahah, a rise of Mandibuzz, S.Def Gliscor and Bisharp
We return on early XY...

Excadrill might increase in usage, seeing as it's one of the few hazard removers that can deal with Aegislash. Lati@s may decrease in usage because switching it in can be a bit risky considering that Aegislash tends to run Pursuit. Though HP fire and Shadow ball could help take it down. SpDef Mandibuzz will definitely become a thing.

 

[Facts]

Mega Manectric is super underrated guys. It's such a good addition to Hyper Offensive teams. It keeps momentum in your favor while being able to dish out damage and checking birds, which is pretty huge. I'm just gonna list a few of it's qualities:

• It has access to Fire-type moves such as Overheat and flamethrower, so Grass types such as Ferrothorn is easily dealt with.
• It is a great check to Tornadus-t considering that Manectric resists it's strongest STAB and Intimidate will weaken it's Superpower, which is commonly ran on Tornadus-t in order to hit Tyranitar and other things that resists Hurricane. Manectric being able to completely shut down Tornadus-t is fantastic for Lando-I because AV Tornadus is an exceptional check to Landorus.
• It's incredible speed tier allows it to outspeed most of the tier and tie with Mega Lopunny. Speed is always an important factor in battling, having a fast Pokemon that has the ability to revenge kill is very crucial.
• It can be a check to some steels such as Scizor. Though, it's a shaky check, it's a check nonetheless. Intimidate will lower it's attack and allow Manectric to either Volt switch out predicting the switch or OHKOing it would Overheat or Flamethrower. Considering that Electric resists Steel, Manectric can help fairies out to an extent.

 

[ABR]

So this might be a little controversial but I wanna stir the pot. I've actually started to think that Mega Altaria is the "best" mega evolution in OU currently (I guess there are different ways to define this).

While Mega Metagross (the titleholder for a while now) has all it needs right from the start - fantastic stats, a great ability and great coverage, it really only has 2 sets with some different coverage options. It's a tank/sweeper/wallbreaker all rolled into one, but it's only an offensive mon really. That's not taking anything away from it - it has plenty of advantages over Altaria, particularly speed - however it you really only need to prepare for a few different variations of Metagross which is admittedly still quite difficult.

Mega Altaria can be many different things, and on top of that has one of the best defensive typings in the game and a great movepool. It checks (and can counter most of these threats if bulky) Zard X, Zard Y, Mega Gyarados, Latios, Garchomp, Mega Lopunny, Keldeo, Mega Sableye and that's only A+ rank in the viability rankings and up (er I threw in Mega Gyarados I guess). This actually relieves a major constraint when teambuilding since it usually takes 2-3 slots (if not more, heh) to check this range of pokemon, and on top of that Altaria is versatile enough to fit in with pretty much any team. Just as an additional note, the mixed wallbreaker set is quite underrated and has very few good switch-ins.

Anyway what are your guys' thoughts?

While I do agree that Altaria is one of the best mega evolutions in OU at the moment, I think that its true effectiveness doesn't really go past its defensive capabilities. That is to say that its offensive capabilities are not that great. I also believe that a strong contender for "best mega" at the moment is Mega Scizor.

There are a few reasons why Altaria's offensive presence is underwhelming at times. The main reason is that each set has plenty of checks/counters, and it is also not that hard to scout because it doesn't have the raw power to punish bad switchins (Return not 2hko'ing Chansey on the special set scout; Slowbro not taking too much from Hyper Voice). For the DD 2 atk set there is Slowbro, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Scizor, Venusaur, Amoonguss, Unaware Clefable, and Talonflame. For the 3 atk Roost set there is Celebi, Jirachi, Chansey, Clefable, Venusaur, Mew, Slowking, and Talonflame. Both of these lack Heal Bell and thus lose a ton of the defensive capabilities that Altaria has otherwise. As for the mono attacking set pretty much any fairy resist walls it so I won't go into detail here. I definitely agree that its a defensive monster and an extremely useful support pokemon with Heal Bell, but it really is not that great of an offensive pokemon in this metagame.

Mega Scizor is a pokemon that truly fills multiple roles in just one team slot, and in general it is very viable in the current ORAS OU metagame. What really makes Scizor so good is that it has incredible bulk and a strong offensive presence at the same time. It doesn't even need to use different sets to achieve these multiple roles, as the bulky SD sets accomplish all of that. With natural bulk and investment it can wall a huge portion of the metagame, as many things that can't hit it super effectively fail to 2hko. It can wall pretty much any physical attacker with the impish set, can even wall some Thundurus and Raikou sets with spdef sets, and it also tears holes with the SD 3 atk set. In addition to all of this, it has access to U-turn and Defog which makes it a valuable support pokemon. Scizor can be a sweeper, wall, support mon, or all at the same time if it needs to.

 

[firehusky]

Basically just spam this if you want reqs :P

Anyways, in all seriousness, mega lopunny is really good atm. It has a great speed tier, and priority fake out which allows it to mega safely and get off some chip damage against frailer mons. Sacking mons to get lopunny in repeatedly to use fake out is actually a common strategy to take down a boosting sweeper that outspeeds lopunny. Having two very powerful STAB moves that get near perfect coverage (lol shedninja) is also really neat. One of the things I like about lopunny is how versatile it is. Basically all you really need is return, fighting STAB of choice (focus punch / hjk for power, drain punch for longevity or reliability). Then you have two free moveslots. You can run fake out for a safe mega evo or for chip damage, ice punch to hit pokemon such as lando-t and gliscor, encore to stop set up sweepers such as clefable in their tracks or to lock pokemon into unadvantageous moves such as ferrothorn into protect or latias to defog, substitute to ease prediction and to stop status or priority, healing wish for some nice team support, even quick attack is a thing to beat talonflame after SR damage:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO

Fake out + quick attack takes out talonflame after SR before it has time to beat lopunny with brave bird, or heal off damage with roost.

Lopunny has an excellent matchup against offense thanks to its great speed tier and being able to hit pretty hard, as most things on offense just die to a combination of hazard damage + fake out + return / hjk. Having a bunch of utility options to run is also really nice which makes lopunny harder to predict and much more versatile.

 

[Azureaper]

Recently, I've become quite taken in by the charms of Bisharp. No, not looks...although it does look interesting, the moves it carries are simply great. Opponents making a switch basically have a good chance of getting hit by pursuit, and switch-ins (assuming you didn't choose pursuit for some reason) still have a chance of losing their item to knock off. I also simply love trapping the Lati duo, which can be quite bothersome at times.

 

[Mur]

Yeah I think I can agree with both bludz and abr on Mzor and Malt. I've always looked at scizor as more than just a top tier threat and it just keeps getting better in my eyes. The typing+bulk is an insane combo with the offensive abilities scizor possesses like seriously Mzor sets up on so much of the tier it's not even funny. I'm in school right now so I don't have the resources to actually check it out but I'm almost positive that Mzor can probably set up on like more than 60% of the meta (bulky variant of course). Although it has some fairly common checks in keldeo(which can't even come in on a superpower or knock off so it can prevent the inevitable Mzor sweep from happening) these mons are easily worn down especially since getting an sd with this monster is so easy their gonna have to be healthy enough to handle it at +2. I haven't even gotten into the more defensive sets and other variants such as full offensive and the u-turn sets which increase the amount of roles Mzor can fulfill. What impresses me the most is how scizor has consistently stayed a top threat throughout every meta shift due to how many roles it fills and how useful a bulky offensive steel type is. Honestly I can make a post even longer about this beast but I'l be typing forever so tl:dr Mzor is filthy and is one of those mons that you really need to be prepared for.

Now on the topic of Malt imo I don't know if you can really pick out a "best" mega in this meta but this is definitely a contender. Typing, bulk, versatility, surprisingly strong this mon pretty much has it all tbh. The multitude of viable sets makes alt very difficult to predict right out the gates and although altaria isn't exactly the hardest mon to check once the set is determined I can guarantee it will always be doing work every game. Given the only reliable switchins are like ferro, scizor, talon, and amoong or Mvenu the amount of support required to rip the opposition to threats is very minimal. The famous Malt+mag core is honestly very hard to beat considering the only things stopping this are venusaur and amoongus which both get dropped by the ever so common latis and torn-t it doesn't surprise me at all that Malt is considered possibly the best mega. I also personally find altaria to be extremely restrictive in teambuilding. Just throwing on ferro or rachi doesn't mean your safe from this monster given it can either bop them with a different set or just trap them with mag.

This post is about to get long as hell because I got carried away as usual but although I kinda hyped up these two their definitely very dominant forces in the meta with few flaws and can easily be considered in the top class of ou alongside gross and keldeo(fuck lando;] )

 

[HUARGH]

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play

I like physically defensive Sableye but a lot of people seem to favor the SDef variant. Priority WoW fucks over many pokemon, especially when coupled with max Def investments. I'll typically have something to deal with the pokemons that cannot be WoW'd easily or at all (i.e. fire types). It's very effective.

 

[astroshagger]

Basically just spam this if you want reqs :P

Anyways, in all seriousness, mega lopunny is really good atm. It has a great speed tier, and priority fake out which allows it to mega safely and get off some chip damage against frailer mons. Sacking mons to get lopunny in repeatedly to use fake out is actually a common strategy to take down a boosting sweeper that outspeeds lopunny. Having two very powerful STAB moves that get near perfect coverage (lol shedninja) is also really neat. One of the things I like about lopunny is how versatile it is. Basically all you really need is return, fighting STAB of choice (focus punch / hjk for power, drain punch for longevity or reliability). Then you have two free moveslots. You can run fake out for a safe mega evo or for chip damage, ice punch to hit pokemon such as lando-t and gliscor, encore to stop set up sweepers such as clefable in their tracks or to lock pokemon into unadvantageous moves such as ferrothorn into protect or latias to defog, substitute to ease prediction and to stop status or priority, healing wish for some nice team support, even quick attack is a thing to beat talonflame after SR damage:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 90-106 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34% chance to 3HKO

Fake out + quick attack takes out talonflame after SR before it has time to beat lopunny with brave bird, or heal off damage with roost.

Lopunny has an excellent matchup against offense thanks to its great speed tier and being able to hit pretty hard, as most things on offense just die to a combination of hazard damage + fake out + return / hjk. Having a bunch of utility options to run is also really nice which makes lopunny harder to predict and much more versatile.

I really disagree with this. IMO Lopunny is very one-sided and predictable mega as of late, and doesn't have near the versatility that other megas like altaria and metagross have.

Lopunny operates with the same few offensive patterns and the transparency in its actions hinders it greatly against people who actually know what they're doing. Yeah it can run other sets with Drain Punch or Sub or PuP but those sets are gimmicky and aren't as effective as the Fake out + Return + HJK + filler sets. Mons like Altaria are so potentially threatening across the spectrum that teams usually struggle just trying to figure out what set it is. But Lopunny? Lmao, if you've seen one you've pretty much seen them all. As I said earlier Lopunny's design necessitates that you play her a certain way at times and this is such a downfall with things like RockyChomp and Lando-T punishing you for 30% every time you spam fake out. Even after rocks, and fake out, 248 HP / 160+ Def RockyChomp still lives the Ice Punch and KO's back with EQ. Lopunny is frail as shit and doesn't resist any legitimate priority either (and is weak to BirdSpam). Also, since when is sacking mons left and right just to rack up chip damage a legit strategy above 1100? Yeah it can potentially allow you to eliminate a "faster sweeper" but at the cost of multiple mons? No thanks.

 

[Flygonial]

I really disagree with this. IMO Lopunny is very one-sided and predictable mega as of late, and doesn't have near the versatility that other megas like altaria and metagross have.

Lopunny operates with the same few offensive patterns and the transparency in its actions hinders it greatly against people who actually know what they're doing. Yeah it can run other sets with Drain Punch or Sub or PuP but those sets are gimmicky and aren't as effective as the Fake out + Return + HJK + filler sets. Mons like Altaria are so potentially threatening across the spectrum that teams usually struggle just trying to figure out what set it is. But Lopunny? Lmao, if you've seen one you've pretty much seen them all. As I said earlier Lopunny's design necessitates that you play her a certain way at times and this is such a downfall with things like RockyChomp and Lando-T punishing you for 30% every time you spam fake out. Even after rocks, and fake out, 248 HP / 160+ Def RockyChomp still lives the Ice Punch and KO's back with EQ. Lopunny is frail as shit and doesn't resist any legitimate priority either (and is weak to BirdSpam). Also, since when is sacking mons left and right just to rack up chip damage a legit strategy above 1100? Yeah it can potentially allow you to eliminate a "faster sweeper" but at the cost of multiple mons? No thanks.

I agree that Mega Altaria is more versatile, but 'not having near the versatility that' Mega Metagross has is debatable, when most of its versatility is from move choice rather than completely different sets, of which there is about one viable other one.

 

[Celticpride]

I mean Lopunny is linear and one sided in the sense that most people are using some generic Fake Out + Ice Punch + STABs set (and I guess Quick Attack but there are much better options for that slot), but Lopunny has a ton of utility options that allow it to still harass offense while also breaking up defensive cores. There's a lot of mix and match but some combination of PuP, Encore, and Sub allows it to get in some utility against some fatter cores (ad there's probably some options I forgot). Lopunny's real impact will start to show when people look at it as more than a 4 attacks offense killer. The potential stallbreaker sets are still fast and still hit really hard with STABs they just haven't caught on yet.

 

[firehusky]

I really disagree with this. IMO Lopunny is very one-sided and predictable mega as of late, and doesn't have near the versatility that other megas like altaria and metagross have.

Lopunny operates with the same few offensive patterns and the transparency in its actions hinders it greatly against people who actually know what they're doing. Yeah it can run other sets with Drain Punch or Sub or PuP but those sets are gimmicky and aren't as effective as the Fake out + Return + HJK + filler sets. Mons like Altaria are so potentially threatening across the spectrum that teams usually struggle just trying to figure out what set it is. But Lopunny? Lmao, if you've seen one you've pretty much seen them all. As I said earlier Lopunny's design necessitates that you play her a certain way at times and this is such a downfall with things like RockyChomp and Lando-T punishing you for 30% every time you spam fake out. Even after rocks, and fake out, 248 HP / 160+ Def RockyChomp still lives the Ice Punch and KO's back with EQ. Lopunny is frail as shit and doesn't resist any legitimate priority either (and is weak to BirdSpam). Also, since when is sacking mons left and right just to rack up chip damage a legit strategy above 1100? Yeah it can potentially allow you to eliminate a "faster sweeper" but at the cost of multiple mons? No thanks.

You obviously can't compare mega lopunny's versatility to mons like mega altaria. Mega Lopunny is actually a lot more versatile than you think it is. SubPunch is very threatening and hits like a truck, while a power up punch on the switch against a mon like rotom-w could be very threatening. Think you can revenge kill that lopunny with talonflame? Fake out + quick attack KOs after SR. Spamming fake out when your opponent has a tank chomp in the back is pretty stupid; you shouldn't be spamming it, you should only use fake out to get up some chip damage so that the opponent is in KO range of one of your attacks, or if mega lopunny has not safely mega evolved yet. Yes lopunny is quite fragile and doesn't resist any priority, but this is pretty common for lots of offensive mons. Mega lopunny is more like a hit and run attacker than a sweeper so it does not have to worry that much about switching into attacks. Maybe I phrased it wrong but what I was trying to say when I said "sack mons to revenge kill a faster sweeper with fake out" is this:

example, opponent has a mega gyarados at +3 / +3 that is going to sweep your team. You can switch in lopunny, fake out, sack a mon, switch in lopunny again, and do the same thing. Yes you did sack a bunch of mons but at least you weren't completely swept.

When I meant versatile I meant like it has a bunch of support options like encore, healing wish, etc. I mean obviously it can't compare to the likes of mega altaria, one of the main reasons mega altaria is S is because of its versatility.

 

[Analytic]

How good is this thing atm?


Many balanced teams struggle to deal with mons like CharY, Landorus-I, M-Metagross, M-Gardevoir and Gengar. Balance teams are often unable to cover all these threats while team building hence leaving them vulnerable almost every time to CharY or Landorus-I. M-Latias is a really good answer to most balance destroyers, dealing with them rather easily and it has great special stats that enable it to run a more defensive set along with CM. Underrated mon which is great in the current meta gamemeta game​

 

[SketchUp]

I didn't really focus that much on building Aegislash teams and instead I started building around some pokemon that work pretty well against stuff like Torn-T + Hippowdon, Fatchomp, SpD Talonflame... Some win conditions that worked really well for me were:

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Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Aura Sphere / Heal Bell / Baton Pass / Thunder Wave

What makes Togekiss so nice at the moment is that it can easily get momentum against bulky pokemon such as Garchomp (only thing it can do is Toxic) and AV Tornadus-T. Having Roost and Heal Bell is a great way to prevent you from getting worn down by toxic and sand damage and an immunity to spikes is always very nice. Having a stealth rock weakness is unfortunate, but Togekiss still has no problems switching in against non-whirlwind Hippowdon, Garchomp, Heatran without roar or timid taunt and Clefable: some of the most common rocks setters. In many matches I played with Togekiss, it worked as a nice pivot early- and midgame due to its 2 immunities and 2 4x resists. Many balanced teams only have 1 reliable answer to Togekiss (AV Raikou, Scizor and Scarf Tyranitar being the most common ones) and since many of these answers lack recovery they can be worn down by hazards. Couldn't really find many good replays because nobody uses this thing but here is one game from SPL where Togekiss uses its nice defensive typing to pivot into Hippowdon and Celebi and slowly wearing down its checks (Raikou)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-33584

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Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

I have used Toxicroak on a physical spam team and its offensive capabilities are pretty underrated. Toxicroak doesn't seem all that great when you consider every team has a ground type and bulky SD Mega Scizor and Slowbro also get high usage but if paired up with other physical threats it can either put in work by weakening these targets or by cleaning up after the targets have been weakened. I used Toxicroak + Bisharp + Wisp Zard-X. Biggest threats to Toxicroak are Slowbro, Garchomp, Hippowdon and Mega Scizor. Similar to Bisharp + Toxicroak, bludz posted a great core of Talonflame + Bisharp which works pretty much the same. Many teams use the same answers to beat both Bisharp and Toxicroak and when using them together you can easily overload them. Zard-X was still used to lure in Hippowdon and Slowbro and burn them to wear them down pretty easily.
Besides its offensive powers Toxicroak also has a niche with its cool defensive typing which helps offensive teams deal with Keldeo, BD Azumarill, Bisharp and Tyranitar. A 4x weakness to psychic is pretty bad to have but after you manage to set up to +2 against a bulky water or fighting type, many Psychic types are either OHKOd by Sucker Punch (Latios, Starmie, Alakazam) or outspeed and killed by +2 Gunk Shot (Mew, Slowbro after some prior damage, Celebi)