Also the argument that T-tar and Mandibuzz can be worn down with hazards doesn't make a lot of sense as Mega Sab has Magic Bounce.
GL getting the magic bounce b4 mega evolving.Also the argument that T-tar and Mandibuzz can be worn down with hazards doesn't make a lot of sense as Mega Sab has Magic Bounce.
This core especially gets worn down by ahzards, as I mentioned ttar has no reocver, mandibuzz is weak to sr, and you can easily switch on the defgog to say, mega gardevoir, camerupt, something with strong ice/electric attacks, to go and take that out, and if they switch, act upon that, and so on.Anything gets worn down. Nobody said the core is invincible, but saying "Oh it gets Worn down" is not a good argument to make against a suspected mon because everything gets worn down. That is how a lot of pokemon battles work, Chipping and chipping at walls and backbones to give your wincon the game winning hole punch or sweep. There is no core in the history of pokemon that cannot be worn down. Saying that "Oh a strong wallbreaker deals with it" is not enough to convince anybody that a mon isn't broken.
ANY CORE CAN GET WORN DOWN BY HAZARDS PLEASE LISTEN TO WHAT IM SAYING.GL getting the magic bounce b4 mega evolving.
This core especially gets worn down by ahzards, as I mentioned ttar has no reocver, mandibuzz is weak to sr, and you can easily switch on the defgog to say, mega gardevoir, camerupt, something with strong ice/electric attacks, to go and take that out, and if they switch, act upon that, and so on.
What other suspects do the council consider looking into?Cast already said this, but can we do less of this "personal attacking?" Or at least do it in pms, and not clutter up the thread. The Mono council has already decided that Mega Sableye is going to be suspected, so it doesn't really matter how much you defend or hate it. Now can we talk about other potential suspects instead of repeating the same stuff over and over?
The problem I find right now with this and future suspects is your banning philosophy. When we voted on MAlt suspect we were given three options: global ban and the type bans. Now you guys wanting to be more inline with Smogon's own tiering way of thinking, have eliminated the type/complex bans oh wait except for Aegislash/steel.Ed, most of our ideas come from the thread. But if people keep on talking about Mega Sab, we won't have any! The community plays more Monotype than a majority of council members, so it's normal that you'd be better at finding broken stuff. Personally, I'd like to see a Hoopa-U because of its sheer power, and Mega Gallade because of its fast speed, and access to SD and Knock Off.
The problem I find right now with this and future suspects is your banning philosophy. When we voted on MAlt suspect we were given three options: global ban and the type bans. Now you guys wanting to be more inline with Smogon's own tiering way of thinking, have eliminated the type/complex bans oh wait except for Aegislash/steel.
Some of the pokes we will suspect are not broken/OP/unhealthy on their own. They can be depending on their type. The reason is exactly what has been mentioned already. We are playing Monotype here, there can't really be over centralization when a bunch of types don't have access to the problem Mon or sometimes 100% counters to it. When looking at say, Hoopa-U, I'd be hard pressed to push for a global ban. I believe a ban from Psychic is more appropriate (positive matchup versus ghost wow). Most people have been arguing the support M-sableye gets but are just naming dark pokes. I haven't read any counterarguments from a ghost perspective. Do I think M-sableye deserves a global ban? Probably not. But if you give me the option of choosing for a ban type on Dark I'll probably opt for that.
Now why do you prefer to agree with Smogon rather than the player base that defines this meta when it comes to tiering? I don't know.
sorry but that doesn't make much sense. Why are there suspect tests then if the players "don't have a clue what's going on"?Because the player base has proven time and time again that they don't have a clue whats going on and anyone who does has had poor relationships with some of the staff so there is almost a sense of boycotting happening right now. This tier can actually become so much better with the right hands in power but the poor relationships are kind of keeping us away from contributing as much as we'd like.
The whole "become so much better" argument I presume is just tied up in Smogon terms (having a sub forum, seasonal tourneys, etc). We already have our own webpage and our own forum (which is criminally underused btw, that's a different story).The community plays more Monotype than a majority of council members, so it's normal that you'd be better at finding broken stuff.
The only real argument you could make tbh is that psychic is currently probably the strongest and easiest type to use rn. Banning hoopa on it would at least give ghost a fighting chance against it again. Granted I'm not 100% on banning it (psychic only), but I feel like it's a potential rising isdue.Let's Talk about
Dark: On dark 99% of the time its running Scarf. It is Dark's main way of getting rid of fighting types. This Pokemon needs to fulfill a specific role on Dark. The other sets are not ass viable as scarf on Dark. I feel this Pokemon adds to Dark and doesn't get to utilize its versatility to its fullest on Dark Teams because it fills a specfic roll as a powerful mixed scarfer that was lost on Dark when Greninja got ban. I say Do Not touch it on Dark because it fulfills a very important role on Dark Teams and doesn't get to abuse its versatility.
Psychic: Hoopa really gets to shine on Psychic teams because of the team support it gets on Psychic. Sets that can be used (Scarf mixed attacker, Band, Sub Nasty Plot, Life Orb Mixed attacker). The problem most people have with Hoopa is on Psychic because it is a lot less predictable on Psychic because of the team support it provides. Also along with Hoopa's very good coverage on both the Physical and Special SideHyperspace Fury, Drain Punch,Gunk Shot, Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Knock Off, Zen Headbutt
Hyperspace Hole, Psychic, Psyshock, Energy Ball, HP Ice or Fire, Focus Blast, Dark Pulse, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Shadow Ball
Nasty Plot, Sub, Taunt, D-Bond,Trick
One very important thing to note about Hoopa is that it decimates slower bulky Pokemon because of its coverage options. Sure most types do not have a "switch in" to Hoopa but that is to be expected in Monotype because of the limited options. Example Lando-I vs Steel or Mega Vena vs Water. If Hoopa is being considered for a ban it will be a type only ban or it will not get ban because most types can check it (besides ghost). I feel Hoopa right now should be in the back of our minds atm because it is not as broken as it was originally thought to be and we should wait and see how it affects the Metagame.
Reintroducing this was a good idea although it is not seen much (faces competition from Mega Gard) I feel council made the right decision with unbanning this hopefully Hoopa doesn't end up like Mega Gallade where it was demmed "too good with the support Psychic gave it" when it was just fine in the meta. Mega Gallade is a great example of a rash ban that hopefully Hoopa won't receive because its "new toy". Hopefully we learned our lesson with Mega Gallade about not banning something without giving players a chance to adapt.[/hide][/hide]
The main reason Hoopa is so good is because of its amazing ability to break absolutely every wall and the fact that it does not have a single solid switchin in this entire metagame, due to the fact it can run so many viable sets. These two characteristics combined with the fact that it does not take up a mega spot and allows one to use ANOTHER amazing wallbreaker such as Mega Gardevoir are what make it too much for many teams.I don't believe that Hoopa merits a ban as of now. I thought that we have escaped th mindset of banning to nerf a type that is good. Is Psychic an incredibly versatile and potent type with many viable playstyles and threats? Yes. Is Hoopa required to make the type decent? No. However, this does not mean that it merits a ban just because the type is good.
Certain types are naturally better than others, so players will use the tools that they have to win.
While Hoopa does have incredible offensive prowess with a movepool to back up its stats, it is inhibited by its mediocre physical bulk and speed tier that won't accomplish much outside of wallbreaking. Yes, most types don't have a solid switch to Hoopa, but most types don't have a solid switch into Gardevoir as well. Should we ban Gardevoir for this same reason? After all, a mammoth base 165 SpA coupled with Pixelate and unresisted coverage, mixed attacking capabilities, and neat setup/support moves make it comparable to Hoopa in this aspect.
At one point, I used to say: "most types don't have a switch into Mega-Charizard-Y and its decent bulk make it difficult to revenge kill. WHY isn't it banned?" Why? Because types that lack a switch in are usually loaded with a plethora of checks. This tier, more so than any other tier, is heavily influenced by counter playing against unbalanced matchups. While Hoopa does not necessarily have a safe switch, it has plenty of offensive checks.
I do feel like my opinion my change when we look into offensive cores that Hoopa forms on Psychic, but the team support aspect can then get tricky because *cough cough* the core of Bisharp and Mega-Scizor exists
Hoopa-U seems to be in a very similar situation to what Mega Sableye was in at the beginning of ORAS. Sablenite was released, and there was a massive uproar calling for it to be quick-banned or at least suspected. After almost a year, people have found ways of dealing with it and the uproar died down up until recently.I feel Hoopa right now should be in the back of our minds atm because it is not as broken as it was originally thought to be and we should wait and see how it affects the Metagame.