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That's not a good reason for Mega Bro to stay A; you're just saying some pros MBro has over Suicune, while ignoring the fact that Suicune has pressure, doesn't take up the mega stone, is faster, has more special bulk, doesn't have a weakness to ghost, dark and bug and has Roar so you do not have to rely on a Scald burn when a SD Bisharp, SD Weavile, SD MScizor etc. starts boosting up against you. MBro's best set is CM 2 Attacks, so its viability should be based primarily on this set (of course versatility is an argument but that isn't really a great argument in Slowbro's case because this thing only has 2 good sets) I'm fine with dropping it, dice gave some good arguments for it
EDIT: I just deleted a lot of irrelevances/bad argument here on Skarm to A+. I'll get back to it later. my question below still stands though:
*So yeah, what was the consensus on Breloom? I'm guessing since it didn't make it into the latest shift, that the team didn't think it warranted a rise to A-. Nobody really argued against it, although admittedly the argument I personally made lacked replays/similar. It would be good to know the reasoning for the team's verdict on that one. Thanks!
Ok, so now that I have some time, let's talk about MegaBro. First off, every one saying that MegaBro RestTalk set is not worthwhile when there is Suicine, that's not necessarily true. There has always been one problem when I use CroCune, which is crits, and wouldn't you know MegaBro's ability makes it so you can't get critted, as well as having better physical bulk. Second point is MegaBro beats things normal Bro can't, such as Weavile and Kyu-B, as well as having much higher Sp. Att which allows it to run a better offensive set. For these reasons MegaBro should stay at A for now.
We know what Slowbro is supposed to do and what are its perks over Suicune, like reliable recovery and such.
I feel that M-Bro should drop, taking the Megaslot already is an issue, even more because regular Bro is at a higher rank, it is also a setup bait(if weakened enough and doesnt packs Fire Blast) for the recently rising Serperior, it can also be overwhelmed with Special attacks if it doesnt gets an opportunity to use Calm Mind, and because of its mediocre speed, it can be shutted down by Breloom and then set up SD( +2 Bullet Seed has 93% chance to OHKO)
I wanted to throw out my two scents on this one as I've been using it lately. The two most comparable Pokemon in the same sub rank as him currently are Hippowdon and Gliscor, so it's worth weighing up how he fares in the current meta compared to both of them. I mostly sit around the mid ladder between the 1500 and 1600 marks, so take my experience as you will. Gliscor is just hands-down less common than both of them, as with Weavile running around all over the place he's not a great dark-spam check; Hippo suffers from this too, along with being even more passive than the other two, although he can check a slightly damaged Weavile provided he's healthy; Skarmory can almost always check Weavile, on the other hand. Skarm is somewhat easier to splash, too - Gliscor has the 4x Ice weakness to worry about meaning that it's quite easy to end up with those stacked if you're also running Garchomp/Landoge/most 2x weak things like Thundy, and Hippo has that along with sharing a water weakness and adding a Grass weakness to the fore. In that regard, provided there's some careful play around sleep clause and Focus Punch, Skarm is the only one that can check Breloom, which is rising in popularity again*. In short, has basically the same role as the other two above, a defensive pivot/wall and hazard setter with largely the same support move pool shared between them, (although Defog over Hippo, Whirlwind over Gliscor, Spikes over both, and a more free moveslots to tailor it's support role), but the things it checks are far more relevant in today's metagame, and I think this should be reflected by holding it a sub rank above Hippo and Gliscor, and other defensively self-sufficient hazard setters/supportive threats.
*So yeah, what was the consensus on Breloom? I'm guessing since it didn't make it into the latest shift, that the team didn't think it warranted a rise to A-. Nobody really argued against it, although admittedly the argument I personally made lacked replays/similar. It would be good to know the reasoning for the team's verdict on that one. Thanks!
I don't think they're really comparable at all more so it's comparable to Ferrothorn who is another pre-dominant spiker. Ladder score is kind of irrelevant in this instance so ok. Skarmory needs to be fully defensive to have a chance against Weavile or mixed because it's a really common scenario where Weavile will flinch a SpDef Skarmory into kill range along with being paired up with Magnezone and other waters to break past Skarmory. This means Skarmorys defensive utility is somewhat of a mixed bag you can't be a defensive check to what each set provides at once which can be unfortunate at times when it wants to handle something like Weavile + Latios as a switch in. Not gonna talk on the Breloom is being checked by Skarmory aspect seeing as how Brelooms best variants run a combination of things like Spore / Focus Punch / SD which makes this pretty simplistic to take out Skarmory. As far as replays go the first one it's kind of a given if you sack your legitimate means to handle something it's going to be harder to take out. Idk what to say about the 2nd replay it doesn't really showcase anything.
I think Skarmory is fine where it's at. It's not as self sufficient as a lot of the A+ stuff or just from a teambuilding constraint perspective isn't as high as those that sit at A+ and some A as well.
I don't think they're really comparable at all more so it's comparable to Ferrothorn who is another pre-dominant spiker. Ladder score is kind of irrelevant in this instance so ok. Skarmory needs to be fully defensive to have a chance against Weavile or mixed because it's a really common scenario where Weavile will flinch a SpDef Skarmory into kill range along with being paired up with Magnezone and other waters to break past Skarmory. This means Skarmorys defensive utility is somewhat of a mixed bag you can't be a defensive check to what each set provides at once which can be unfortunate at times when it wants to handle something like Weavile + Latios as a switch in. Not gonna talk on the Breloom is being checked by Skarmory aspect seeing as how Brelooms best variants run a combination of things like Spore / Focus Punch / SD which makes this pretty simplistic to take out Skarmory. As far as replays go the first one it's kind of a given if you sack your legitimate means to handle something it's going to be harder to take out. Idk what to say about the 2nd replay it doesn't really showcase anything.
I think Skarmory is fine where it's at. It's not as self sufficient as a lot of the A+ stuff or just from a teambuilding constraint perspective isn't as high as those that sit at A+ and some A as well.
Points all taken, it wasn't the most thought through of my posts - I'll get rid of it. I just grabbed my last two Skarm replays, tbh, I wrote it in a rush as I'm off out soon. I'll try to get some better ones later on if, after thinking on it for a while more, I'm still in support of Skarm to A+. I'd maintain that within A rank Skarm's very comparable to Hippo and Gliscor, though, for the reasons stated - they're all defensive hazard setters with similar enough defensive and support capabilities (I'm not saying they don't check different things due to typing, but I dont think that means they don't fundamentally function similarly to each other), and Ferro's definitely on that list but I disagree with saying that Hippo and Gliscor aren't comparable to Skarm.
*So yeah, what was the consensus on Breloom? I'm guessing since it didn't make it into the latest shift, that the team didn't think it warranted a rise to A-. Nobody really argued against it, although admittedly the argument I personally made lacked replays/similar. It would be good to know the reasoning for the team's verdict on that one. Thanks!
Breloom didn't move up since, alongside MSlowbro, Raikou and Togekiss, we haven't really reached a consensus on it yet (though more likely than not it's going to move up next update).
As a general rule, if a Pokemon is still mentioned as a discussion point in the OP after an update, that means we haven't decided on it yet, and if we do decide to keep it where it is, we will make mention of it staying where it is during the next update, and then removing it from discussion points. So unless we explicitly state that a Pokemon which generated a lot of discussion isn't moving, it's still entirely possible that it will.
so it's just a slowbro that gives up security in regen for being a shitty weavile check.. ? it loses to sd weavile (+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 244-291 (61.9 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) with pretty minimal chip dmg given that u lose lefties and regen... i mean keldeo loses to the obscure sd + return but it generally covers weavile p well on balance given it has momentum.. mega sciz just dicks it p hard... clefable falls to sd poison jab.... but all the other common checks are just "better". opportunity cost... i mean ur 'more secure' vs some stuff w. the added stats but just use regular slowbro with a good mega and slightly altered squad; it'll be better i am certain.
using heal bell on a mega bro squad... best of luck.
Only 13.321% of Weavile in the higher portions of the ladder use swords dance on their set, so that's not really a notable thing that you should talk about because of how exceedingly rare it is. Also, Slowbro-Mega's main role isn't supposed to be a weavile check, it can supposed to be a bulky wincon that can't be crit, a powerful offensive water type with a great special attack stat and amazing coverage (unlike Keldeo) as well as being an extremely good physical attacker check that takes hits extremely well.
RestTalk Mega Bro is really bad and shouldn't even be discussed, it's easily outclassed by Suicune.
On the other hand, CM 2 attacks is a really good set, making mega slowbro a very good win con that cannot be critted and has a lot of firepower even from +2 alone. though it is extremely vulnerable to status. However, I don't think that this is mega slowbro's best set, instead I actually think this set would fit in A-
I feel like the best set is cm scald t-wave. First of all, the only reason Mega Slowbro should stay A is because mega slowbro is slowbro itself. The stage where mega slowbro is not yet mega evolved is why mega slowbro is viable. To put it in simple terms, mega slowbro before mega evolving is essentially a regular slowbro, except that it takes knock offs much better and has a lot more special bulk (since you invest more), but with no leftovers and less physical bulk. However, at the same time it can be Mega evolved into Mega Slowbro late-game and clean the game.
For example, take these scenarios for example (with 248 hp / 56+ def / 200 spd / 4 spe):
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 56+ Def Slowbro: 211-250 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Here slowbro w/ slowbronite takes knock off from weavile, proceeds to thunder wave, and then switches out to get regen back while effectively semi-nullifying weavile, a huge threat to balanced. Not only that, knock off does an average of ~58% which leaves you at 42%, after regen that's 75%. So you basically only lost 25% (that you can gain by switching again) for a para'd weavile, something that regular slowbro has much more trouble doing.
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Slowbro: 265-313 (67.4 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Here thanks to the SpD investment that regular slowbro cannot afford, mega slowbro before mega evolving can take a draco and para, and then can slack off on the switchin, THEN it can switch back, making it effectively at 100%
When do you actually mega evolve slowbro? i'd only do it late game when i have a good chance to sweep or when i am desperate for the bulk
I don't think you've played a lot with Rest MBro if you're calling it easily outclassed by Suicune; I'd call it at least as good as Crocune, with the main con that it takes up your mega slot. About the other things (sorry if it's phrased a bit confusing)
First of all, the only reason Mega Slowbro should stay A is because mega slowbro is slowbro itself. The stage where mega slowbro is not yet mega evolved is why mega slowbro is viable.
To put it in simple terms, mega slowbro before mega evolving is essentially a regular slowbro, except that it takes knock offs much better and has a lot more special bulk (since you invest more)but with no leftovers and less physical bulk. However, at the same time it can be Mega evolved into Mega Slowbro late-game and clean the game.
I understand what you're trying to say here but it doesn't make much sense honestly. In a match itself you have to make the decision with MBro whether you want Regenerator or more physical bulk. Not going mega is just a decision just like you don't go mega with Gyarados to keep Intimidate and how you don't go mega with Sableye to keep Prankster for a few extra turns. A good pre-mega ability is definitely an important part in the viability of a mega, but you're saying it's one of the primary reasons for Mega Slowbro's viability, which it obviously isn't
When do you actually mega evolve slowbro? i'd only do it late game when i have a good chance to sweep or when i am desperate for the bulk
Exactly. Of course you go mega in most matches but like you're saying here, the pros MBro has over regular Slowbro are so small (to rephrase you: slowbro only goes mega in 2 situations) that the opportunity cost of a mega stone too high when you can also have another mega. I think that's the biggest problem with Mega Slowbro's viability: it's just not worth it unless you specifically build around it or if you have a open mega slot
More special bulk isn't really a relevant argument when you can run special defense on regular Slowbro if you want. Lack of Leftovers is kinda big though in reliably switching into stuff over time too, so saying MBros viability stems from the viability of its base form base form is false, in fact it's the opposite. Because MBro is often played like a regular Slowbro throughout a large percentage of each match, and its utility in being able to Mega evolve is more situational (particularly early game), the viability of regular bro is actually a big reason the opportunity cost is high.
Not fast enough to sweep most teams, and balance commonly runs Ferrothorn. Definitely suffers from 4MSS, and it has a problem tailglowing vs offense. Attacking Manaphy on the Tail Glow + revenge with priority is always enough to kill, or revenge with Thundurus-I. Safe bet it doesn't have HP Fire if its used with a Breloom or Charizard-X making it free Spike fodder for Ferrothorn.
Volcarona A- -> B+
Tried using this on ladder because I wanted to use it in POCL finals, simply required too much support to be A-. Always gives Talonflame a free WoW or SD and has to spin. Cannot break through any good fire-type without a teammates help. While it can 6-0 bad teams, it is not self-sufficient and can't break through common pokemon like Chomp, Heatran, Dragonite, Zard-X, or Talonflame without random Hidden Power. Also if it has this random Hidden Power, Volcarona loses a way to hit Keldeo and recover HP (Giga Drain0.
Alright, I'll try and keep this brief, but, why is Mega Bro even as high as it is? I honestly feel like A- may even be a bit too high, but I may be biased towards that because of my over all lack of knowledge on it. You don't see it, nearly ever, and there's a good reason for it. It's tough choosing Mega Bro, because not only does it take up a mega slot, but it can't completely do what Normal Bro does. And What Normal Bro does is amazing. Mega Bro is better for being a fat cleaner that is really difficult to take down. . . After it has gotten the just right situations. Those situations don't arise all too often (from what I've seen). I really don't think A- should be Mega Bro's placement, but like I said, I'm not entirely sure about it all because the over all lack of Mega Bro running around. Either way, it shouldn't be A. It's just not what it used to be. Perhaps when everything was moving at a slower pace, it was great, and of course REALLY early into ORAS it was great. But now, it's just got so many cons.
Losing regen after mega'ing, not having lefties, taking a Mega Slot, the list goes on, none of these things are exceptionally amazing for the Derpmeister.
Alright, I'll try and keep this brief, but, why is Mega Bro even as high as it is? I honestly feel like A- may even be a bit too high, but I may be biased towards that because of my over all lack of knowledge on it. You don't see it, nearly ever, and there's a good reason for it. It's tough choosing Mega Bro, because not only does it take up a mega slot, but it can't completely do what Normal Bro does. And What Normal Bro does is amazing. Mega Bro is better for being a fat cleaner that is really difficult to take down. . . After it has gotten the just right situations. Those situations don't arise all too often (from what I've seen). I really don't think A- should be Mega Bro's placement, but like I said, I'm not entirely sure about it all because the over all lack of Mega Bro running around. Either way, it shouldn't be A. It's just not what it used to be. Perhaps when everything was moving at a slower pace, it was great, and of course REALLY early into ORAS it was great. But now, it's just got so many cons.
Losing regen after mega'ing, not having lefties, taking a Mega Slot, the list goes on, none of these things are exceptionally amazing for the Derpmeister.
I dunno why you bother mentioning that a cleaner is difficult to take down in the right situation, it wouldn't be cleaning otherwise u_u.
Besides, you have to realize that wherever regular slowbro cm can set up, megabro can set up in atleast 1.5 more places solely due to its retarded physical bulk. You can't trash mega slowbro's ability to set up if you doubt regular slowbro's ability to do so, and defensive slowbro sets up really fucking easily.
Meanwhile, the best set of the other cm bulky water, suicune (scald/cm/rest/roar is pmuch best) is a sitting duck for 2 turns. I'd say the number of situations in which this suicune set is sweeping are far fewer in number than those in which mega bro is.
A big reason of that is because very strong physical attackers can just 2hko suicune when it rests; you pretty much NEED LO loom or mega hera pinsir if you plan to break through mega bro physically.
This retarded physical bulk, btw, is a blessing, and is the biggest relevant reason mega bro is really worth using over regular, higher sp. att and shell armor are just small quirks.
Ever single cm mon except mega bro suffers from being prone to physical pressure, and it is the most common and best way to beat cm'ers in general, especially for offense, the most prevalent, versatile, and threatening playstyle in oras.
It's more effective than people think because they can't handle cm mega bro with the same method they handle every other cm mon. It's more threatening than people think bc of this huge defense; its even more than people really think it is:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 276-328 (70 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 244-291 (61.9 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 153-181 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Earth Plate Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 219-258 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and the counterattack:
+1 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 390-462 (121.8 - 144.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 186-220 (62.6 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 217-256 (80 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 186-220 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 186-220 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
no other calm minder even comes close to performing that well vs physical threats. Not regular slowbro, not suicune (another HUGE PRO you're all missing out that megabro has over suicune is SLACK OFF. slack off is far far better than restalk in terms of strictly recovery.) or any other calm minder in the game.
It's also worth noting that some threats to regular slowbro are literally set up fodder for mega bro, such as kyu-b. Mega Bro is such a solid check to kyu-b.
56 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 160-188 (40.6 - 47.7%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
From the calcs its easy to see that it wins 1v1 almost all the time, and will usually switch-in alright too. Only the worst cast scenarios are listed.
However, i have to agree that the viability of regular bro is a huge reason not to use megabro. A mega slot is generally just better off on another mon, and its not worth mega evolving slowbro unless you have the mega free or you build around it. But opportunity cost only goes so far; mega bro's tru viability and cleaning potential cannot be lower than A-, no matter how hard you cry about losing regenerator or losing mega slot.
I'm only going to address this, because as I stated, it's hard for me to really say for certain where I feel Mega Bro should be for certain.
The reason I said this is because Mega Bro needs more things gone than most other cleaners. It's one of the few slow cleaners, and that's where I personally feel (again, I have no experience with it so I can't speak on it entirely) it runs into a couple snags. Most cleaners you don't have to worry too much about because they're quick and powerful. Where as Mega Bro has to take the time to set up, recover, take hits, repeat and attack. It's not a downside like I perhaps made it seem, but it's definitely requires more effort than most other cleaners. I didn't put the emphasis on that like I would have liked to, but I'm hoping this will do.
Not fast enough to sweep most teams, and balance commonly runs Ferrothorn. Definitely suffers from 4MSS, and it has a problem tailglowing vs offense. Attacking Manaphy on the Tail Glow + revenge with priority is always enough to kill, or revenge with Thundurus-I. Safe bet it doesn't have HP Fire if its used with a Breloom or Charizard-X making it free Spike fodder for Ferrothorn.
Nah brah. It's good bulk against offense and if it switches in on a good matchup (e.g it comes in on a fire type or something) and forces it out while setting up Tail Glow it can do damage. while I agree that balance commonly runs Ferrothorn there is this:
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Scald vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 155-183 (44 - 51.9%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Heh, pretty powerful. I don't find 3 attacks Mana w/o hp fire to be that useful in a lot of situations, I'd rather just run RD instead of a third attack, w/ Spikes support it's good against balance and it still has pgood bulk for offense to have a little trouble (Although if you have like Serp or something it might be pressured, granted, not the best matchups vs offense still) ofc there isn't a good offense matchup and it quite possibly could fall to A+ (Wouldn't be too opposed, but i feel it should stay S).
Honestly i find this to be slightly more of a threat to stall/balance than Hoopa-u simply because of hydration, meriting that rank up. rest/rd/scald/tg keeps its longevity going and if paired--doesn't gotta be, because I've seen windows for Mana to RD, but ofc it's not doing this vs offense-- with rain support from other mons it can stay active throughout the match and take hits.
Now like I said I'm not completely opposed to a drop to A+ and don't shit on me for defending it for S but eh, just having a bad matchup vs offense (which is slightly overrated imo) shouldn't make it drop.
I've always thought of M-Bro as more of a defensive win condition than an offensive one. You weaken the handful of specially offensive threats typically carried by offense and M-Bro wins. Running Calm Mind with significant special defense investment is a waste of its potential, in my opinion, because it just makes it harder for it to actually wall the physical threats it's supposed to (especially when you want to keep Regenerator for most of the game), and forces you to give up momentum using Slack Off more regularly; all in exchange for slightly increasing the pool of Pokemon it can set up on. Opportunity cost justifies dropping M-Bro to A-, but it's way too effective to fall any lower than that.
Why is Mew in A Rank? It's a pretty decent Stallbreaker, but looking through the Viability Ranking, I feel like Mew would fit more in A- Rank, in my opinion.
The meta at the moment is increasingly delineated between offense and stall, rather than the balance teams which Mew's most effective sets thrive against. Mew struggles against offense due to its lack of useful resistances, only solid bulk, weakness to common Dark spams, and difficulties against Zard-X. It can't touch stall at all thanks to M-Sableye - sure, it can run Baton Pass, but 9 times out of 10 Celebi outclasses it in that capacity. Mew is just really difficult to justify for a team slot atm.
I propose to bring mega Pinsir in A+, has a great offensive power, more can increase the attack tremendously with Swords Dance.
Removes easily chomp, slowbro, hippo after a dance, he has access to a priority increased thanks to the skill, with this feature can easily eliminate threats as mega lop, Hoopa, Keldeo, Pinsir in this metagame is working really well, I think I need be in the A or A + rank
some calculations against various walls:
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 379-447 (90.2 - 106.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 438-516 (104.2 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 255-301 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Now the power of quick attack against some offensive pokemon:
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 256-303 (85.6 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 141-167 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 115-136 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I have a few proposals Entei C+ > B- Entei is a massive threat to teams that aren't well prepared for it. Entei can burn walls on the switch or obliterate a pokemon that doesn't like Sacred Fire. It has really great bulk allowing to be a fast but bulky Cannon. There are checks and counters but every single one of them has to fear the burn or can't switch in without getting 2HKO bar Suicune. Dragalge B+ > B Dragalge is losing a lot touch it had being able to nuke things on the switch or set up Toxic Spikes. Scolipede outclasses it in the Toxic Spike department and Latios just does a better job at it. Also Psychic types are getting more popular recently which ain't helping its case. Feraligatr B+ > A- IMO Gatr is on par with Normal Gyarados but having a stronger crunch and a stronger Ice move. Gatr also has Superpower which it can hot its opponents with on the switch. Gatr has the perk of not being weak to Stealth Rocks as well as not taking LO damage for the most part which helps keep gatr alive for longer. Amoonguss B- > B/B+ It is a grass type who it hard to set up on with recovery on the switch. It has two moves to stop set up which are Spore and Clear Smog, and pretty good bulk as well as defensive typing being able to take on the likes of Clefable and Azumarill. Kyurem C+ > C/C- If I honestly felt like PP stalling I would use Zapdos or Suicune. Sure it has a good speed tier but I just don't see what makes it stand out bar its coverage but KB outclasses it there. Mega Houndoom C+ > B- This thing has a great speed tier as well as outstanding coverage in its STAB. Nasty Plot makes it even more scarier and its pre evo ability is Flash Fire which helps to stack on even more damage. It is very unlikely this thing will get a lot usage in the sun but it gets a Specs boost to Dark Pulse and filler and a 2x boost to Fire Blast. Really underrated. Rotom Mow Unranked > D/C- Water types are plentiful as well as well as ground and rock. It has the ability to break stall and hit Manaphy, Keldeo, Hippowdon etc. Really just Rotom H but with different coverage and also different resistances.
Rotom Mow Unranked > D/C- Water types are plentiful as well as well as ground and rock. It has the ability to break stall and hit Manaphy, Keldeo, Hippowdon etc. Really just Rotom H but with different coverage and also different resistances.
You need a replay for unranked to ranked nominations for Pokemon as we really haven't seen them used commonly enough to justify what the person nominating it is saying, and a replay from a good battle shows the mons effectiveness in a practical application, showing its merits beyond simply theorymonning about how good it is and actually providing tangible evidence that it is worthy of a spot on the VR thread.
Scarf Rotom-C has a very small niche in tanking Volt Switches and OHKOing Manaphy with Leaf Storm, otherwise it's completely outclassed by Rotom-W.
Also can we stop demanding replays for every new nomination? In some cases replays are justified, although they're still really poor evidence and no substitute for actually playtesting something yourself. But for a mon like Rotom-C, which is literally just a re-typing of two mons which are already ranked, what are you actually expecting to learn from a replay? "In this one battle, Rotom-C helped check a Raikou and walled an Excadrill"? If anything, replays distort a Pokemon's true viability due to either cherrypicking or a small sample size.
We need replays because most people probably haven't used whatever is being nominated or have seen it in action. Theorymon is just theory, not evidence.
Clair the problem is if replays are not required we get tons of terrible nominations that lead to a bunch of theorymon and it hurts the quality of posting in the thread. If concerned about the cherry picking of its niche then make sure to showcase multiple facets. Making exceptions to the replay rule for stuff like rotom is unnecessarily complicated (moderating this thread is painstaking enough). Sure replays aren't the end all be all of evidence but they're still pretty helpful especially when not everyone operates under the same assumptions about a pokemon
If you use a pokemon enough to have the opinion that it should be ranked, it isn't hard to accrue replays of it in action. Lets not pretend that replays are magic fairy dust that can only been acquired under the 5th blood moon of the millennium
I propose to bring mega Pinsir in A+, has a great offensive power, more can increase the attack tremendously with Swords Dance.
Removes easily chomp, slowbro, hippo after a dance, he has access to a priority increased thanks to the skill, with this feature can easily eliminate threats as mega lop, Hoopa, Keldeo, Pinsir in this metagame is working really well, I think I need be in the A or A + rank
some calculations against various walls:
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 379-447 (90.2 - 106.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 438-516 (104.2 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 255-301 (64.7 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Now the power of quick attack against some offensive pokemon:
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 256-303 (85.6 - 101.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 141-167 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 44 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 115-136 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Two things, King sun. I'm not on the council, but I'd say that you might better off nominating this for A instead of A+. jumping 2 subranks without a new move or ability is a big leap without lots of fresh replays (good, high level ones too!) to back you up.
Also, most of the people on this thread (especially the people on the council) know all the facts that you just stated. If I were you, i'd make your case not in terms of what it can do but what has changed in the OU metagame to make better. For example, you might make the case that Serperior's rise to power has increased its viability.
I personally am not sure that he's the best thing to use because of the abundence of rocky helmet users (tankchomp, lando-t, and skarm), the popularity of fast electric types (raikou in particular), and the fact that it still has weaknesses to rocks and t-flame all speak against it rising.
