OU Analyses Discussion Thread

[p2]

Medicham cannot learn Swords Dance so it's clearly a mistake.

tdp edit: i just went ahead and assumed they meant mega gallade here so i changed it to that, reckon it might be removed altogether bc not super viable but that's not my call to make

will check this out

Yeah, they certainly messed up Medi with Gallade but if the thing is being viable, then just put "Mega Medicham", no?

More things that need some tweaks:

On the Heatran analysis, adapt the first set to the fast support variant and mention the spD spread on set details and i'd deslash Protect and Roar too as they aren't viable and common enough to be slashed.

On the Weavile analysis try to insert CB there, say something like "If Pursuit is being used, Choice Band instead of Life Orb is an option, it becomes unable to switch moves but doesn't have the recoil from Life Orb and becomes a more effective Pursuit trapper overall since it can use this move against healthier targets or pokemon with more physical bulk and helps with its damage output in general, scoring the 2HKO with Icicle Crash against Clefable for example."

On the Tyranitar analysis i found a few things. Ice Punch should not be slashed with Crunch on the Choice Scarf set, i find it silly to sacrifice a STAB move like that, it doesn't seem a great move on it but if anything, put over Superpower but even then, you lose precious coverage, i think you should deslash the move and change it from x to y.

X: Ice Punch can be used to hit Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T if a reliable secondary STAB move is not needed.

Y: Ice Punch can be used in the place of Superpower to hit Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T but this isn't very recommended since Tyranitar loses the ability to reliably revenge kill threats such as Bisharp and Lucario and it gives it a harder time against Ferrothorn and Keldeo for example.

Also, on the Support set, the items should appear as Chople Berry/Smooth Rock, Chople currently only appears on Set Details and is considered more useful than Smooth Rock as it helps with Focus Blast users and Superpower Tornadus-T for example plus Smooth Rock is counterproductive on Mega Charizard Y teams, which are fairly common. I'd also mention Rock Slide somewhere on the support set due to higher accuracy and it seems better on Thunder Wave variants due to ParaFlinch and speaking about T-Wave, it certainly seems more slash worthy than Crunch imo, i think paralyzing threats like Keldeo or Mega Lopunny on the switch is valuable.

I think Diancie's main spread should be changed to max atk and posts like this seem to explain it pretty well.

heatran has yet to have changes submitted which ill do shortly, protect is decent though, roar blows.

cb weavile is really garbage and overrated, i'm completely against putting a mention

0 idea why ice punch is slashed with crunch of all things on ttar, must have been a thing when tankchomp was really dominant

i already submitted stuff for chople berry

diancie is fine with max spa max speed right now, max atk has a strong mention in set details anyway.

Just a small mention about this guy's AV set:

This is its dex set:
Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower / Focus Blast / Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Putting Heat Wave as the first slash has definitely been mentioned before so I won't go on about it.
ericaroselia also suggested that Focus Blast should be removed, and I agree with him on this because no one ever uses it.

What I want to talk about is its other EV Spread:
248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid

I'm not exactly sure what this set achieves yet but I have heard many good comments about this so I'll get back to this thread later.
Here I am, back with some calcs:

Wall of Calcs

Latios' Psyshock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 207-243 (64 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 207-243 (57.3 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

(Adamant) Bisharp's Sucker Punch
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 220-259 (68.1 - 80.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 220-259 (60.9 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

MMedicham's HJK
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 233-275 (72.1 - 85.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 233-275 (64.5 - 76.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Bulky MZor's +2 BP
+2 44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 229-270 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 229-270 (63.4 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It can be seen from this calcs that the extra HP investment makes quite a big difference when it comes to taking some priority or moves Torn-T might like to switch into.

As for the nature, I think Timid should be the first slash because AV Torn-T hates losing physical bulk. This drop in Def just makes it ultra-prone to getting revenge killed and pursuit trapped, something that it just hates straight down to the core. Also, you need Timid>Hasty to ensure that those calcs up there are effective.

i don't like this spread, the one i use the most is max speed, enough special atk to ohko keld after rocks and the rest in hp, 248 hp seems a bit ridiculous.

 

[ericaroselia]

Trying to see some other things on more analyses.

Keldeo: Focus Blast currently is only OO and the analysis talks like it's a bad move and that it's used in the place of Secret Sword, i think it should be slashed on the last move or atleast mentioned on the moves as an alternative to Hidden Power/Icy Wind. Also, i'd deslash LO because specs is much more common and usable in general, i think Life Orb should simply appear as some alternative on Set Details.

Lopunny: I'd simply delete the Substitute set, i don't see why would anyone ever use it as it loses Fake Out, has no recovery and the move is worthless on a good amount of situations, a pokemon that loses health from that move and is supposed to be a fast revenge killer plus Rocky Helmet Landorus-T is common and deals pretty well with Lopunny, especially without Ice Punch and wears it down so quickly, Substitute seems an inferior move on Lopunny and Fake Out seems too good to pass up so it seems pretty silly that Substitute Lopunny is a full set and i think they should simply get rid of it.

Alakazam: Shouldn't Calm Mind be the first slash on the last move? It is considered the best option on it since it makes it a more dangerous sweeper, CM is one of the main reasons to use Mega Alakazam in this meta and the move doesn't appear slashed, it seems more useful than Encore and Sub for sure, i think the move order should be Calm Mind/Substitute/Encore to reflect how Alakazam is commonly used. Mega Alakazam's spD isn't as bad and CM helps with that, it can set up on special attackers to take a hit confortably or force it out and then possibly sweep, i am a CM person and seen alot of people saying good things about that move, using it on tournaments and it seemed pretty helpful when i used it too.

Pinsir: I've read some posts saying to deslash Earthquake and i agree with them, it doesn't give almost any coverage that CC doesn't, Close Combat's base power is higher, beats Tyranitar and netural hits are cool on pokemon like Skarmory and Rotom-W.

Medicham: The first nature should be Adamant, maybe deslash Jolly as it doesn't really need the extra spe and Adamant is 2HKO on most Clefable variants and the move order should be Bullet Punch/Thunder Punch/Zen Headbutt imo, Zen currently appears as the first move and it is least useful of them since Mega Venusaur isn't as common and Adamant HJK 2HKOes Clefable anyway, the extra priority on Bullet Punch, coming with the ability of beating Diancie or Thunder Punch for the BoltBeam coverage, beating Slowbro, Starmie and Gyarados are more viable than Zen Headbutt at this point.

Raikou: Please remove the Assault Vest set, it is pretty pointless as Tornadus is a better AV user to defeat the likes of Gengar and AV-less Raikou checks the threats it's intended to beat but Raikou isn't great anyway so you have to use its niches to the max, Raikou without SubCM or the power of specs seems like a really bad deal and the set itself is pretty pointless, it was unranked on the sets VR thread since there isn't a real reason to include that on a serious team, it seems more like slapping AV on a random mon without any purpose whatsoever.

 

[HailFall]

some of this stuff might have been brought up before idk

I think curse should be upgraded to a mention in moves for quagsire because its a pretty solid option, i guess it could even be a slash but idk. It provides a wincon and a more solid way to beat clefable than pp stalling with chansey which is reason enough to use it. Its also featured on one of the most popular quagsire teams out there (weav stall) so theres that too.

does stealth rock really need to be its own set on clefable? the opportunity cost of using it over basically any other set is pretty high. i think its better suited to other options or a mention in moves.

on the slowking defensive set i would unsalsh toxic and dragon tail as neither is particularly good.

i dont agree with deslashing jolly on megacham because you can run it to tie with stuff like manaphy and zard while also outspeeding kyub and jolly exca outside sand.

 

[Karxrida]

Trying to see some other things on more analyses.

Keldeo: Focus Blast currently is only OO and the analysis talks like it's a bad move and that it's used in the place of Secret Sword, i think it should be slashed on the last move or atleast mentioned on the moves as an alternative to Hidden Power/Icy Wind. Also, i'd deslash LO because specs is much more common and usable in general, i think Life Orb should simply appear as some alternative on Set Details.

Focus Blast's targets are Suicune, Gastrodon, Tangrowth, and Volcanion. There are much better ways to deal with Suicune that don't eat your coverage, Gastro isn't super common and only needs a tiny bit of prior (or Spikes + SR) to get overpowered by Specs Secret Sword, Tangrowth either dies to Specs HP Bug/Icy Wind (Physically Defensive) or Specs Secret Sword (AV, needs SR up), and Volcanion is already covered by Specs Secret Sword.

Unless I'm missing something here (haven't played in forever, so that's likely), I don't think there's any reason to even list it as an OO.

 

[Tinberz]

some of this stuff might have been brought up before idk
does stealth rock really need to be its own set on clefable? the opportunity cost of using it over basically any other set is pretty high. i think its better suited to other options or a mention in moves.

Clefable is by far one of the best rockers, being able to get rocks up on almost every Hazard Remover, at the same time having an ability to heal. This is an insanely good thing and hence I feel that Rocks Clef can remain as a set. I think we could slash Knock Off into some Clefable sets because after trying it out on the MGCM and SR sets, I have found that it has worked relatively well and it could be worth a slash, at least on the SR set. I'm not exactly the most experienced guy, but I do know some examples where Knock Off might come in handy:
- Heatran: This thing is basically dead without Lefties.
- Rotom-W: Assuming this thing stays in overpredicting or what, it's losing its precious Lefties.
- Lando-T: No more chip damage from this guy.
In short, Knock Off is a really spammable move, even more so than/comparable TWave in that most non-mega mons hate losing their item. Hence, I feel that it should have a mention.

Trying to see some other things on more analyses.
Keldeo: Focus Blast currently is only OO and the analysis talks like it's a bad move and that it's used in the place of Secret Sword, i think it should be slashed on the last move or atleast mentioned on the moves as an alternative to Hidden Power/Icy Wind. Also, i'd deslash LO because specs is much more common and usable in general, i think Life Orb should simply appear as some alternative on Set Details.

I remember mentioning this a while ago and it's nice to have support on this.

 

[Martin]

Just posting to say that having used Focus Blast Keldeo a lot recently I think it is consistent enough to warrent either the first or second slash (depending on QC's opinion of Icy Wind vs. Focus Blast) in part due to how easy it is to abuse a Keldeo locked into weak coverage when Focus Blast does a good job as nuking a lot of stuff anyway (seriously this thing 2HKOs standard Slowbro after Stealth Rock without actually dropping much power over HP Elec/Grass/Bug, while Hydro Pump will always 3HKO regardless of Stealth Rock damage) while actively outdamaging the respective Hidden Powers in the case of SE coverage versus neutral Focus Blast, with the key draws including things like OHKOing Rotom and 2HKOing Seismi/Gastro without becoming easy to abuse due to HP Grass, easing prediction versus a lot of stuff (if it's targets don't end up coming in on you it's not the end of the world because it's literally Keldeo's most powerful attack anyway) and often the stuff that it is forced to deal with using weak coverage is better left to teammates such as Tyranitar, Talonflame, Volcanion, Lati@s etc. to deal with. This set is just much harder to prep for beyond the Pokémon which it's coverage can't deal with normally anyway (e.g. Amoonguss, Jellicent etc.) which is what really sets it apart imo, and it really helps with nuking teams in general if you aren't locked into a weak non-STAB attack as it means you can stay in for prolonged periods while baiting out some of the stuff that HydroSword doesn't break through.

Edit: also it's p. common (for example I've seen it used on at least 2 WCoP dump posts assuming I've not forgotten any instances of it) and it is my go-to variant when doing first drafts of teams or v. quick builds.

 

[Drangonn.]

Is there a chance that sd 3 attacks garchomp will get an analysis? It's gotten a fair amount of hype lately. When I say get an analysis, I mean incorporated in some way, not be given its own set.

 

[ericaroselia]

More pokemon/set i think that should get analyses/tweaks:

Scizor: I don't think Defog is good enough to have its own set, i think that the set is very very niche and almost totally ineffective as it's hard to have a team where you actually need Mega Scizor as the defogger, some teams are good without hazard removal and most others won't look forward to use their mega slot for it and if they do, Mega Latias is generally the best choice, Scizor is totally destroyed by Heatran, is pressured by other rock setters like Landorus-T and Garchomp, plus without SD it isn't a big threat, please remove it as it's almost impossible to justify this on a serious team.

Latios: Change Psyshock to Psychic on the Choice Scarf set, i posted that here and they didn't implement this or even discussed it, i think people can agree that Psychic is superior on that set, i currently do not understand the appeal of Psyshock.

Suicune: Merge both sets, the first one suggets Suicune without Calm Mind and that doesn't seem good and then has a second set just for Resttalk, i think its set should be this:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Roar/Sleep Talk

Sceptile: Deslash Timid and Focus Blast, why would you use Focus Blast instead of HP Fire? HP Fire + EQ beats all steels pretty much and Focus Blast has low accuracy and doesn't beat Mega Scizor, i don't see why would you use HP Fire + Focus Blast either to justify the use of the Timid Nature, that nature is slashed when Earthquake appears as a main move, please change this.

Victini: I think Choice Specs Victini should be a set, according to the sets VR, it's the most viable Victini set and i agree, it seems better than the mixed set because its mixed set doesn't really lure anything anymore and Blue Flare is a spammable move, good against most physical walls and doesn't come with the V create drops, certainly seems better than the current smogdex sets.

Jellicent: In my opinion this pokemon is analysis worthy, it's viable enough to see usage on some serious teams, people use it on the higher ladder or competitions and the pokemon proves itself to be quite good, has many traits that give it a distinct niche, it's the only pokemon with that typing and has a nice ability in Water Absorb. People get lost when they want to try out Jellicent and it doesn't have a set on the analysis, especially because its set isn't the same as the RU/UU set, if worse pokemon have analyses, i think Jellicent should get one too, it's fairly solid in this meta.

 

[Hootie]

I agree on the changes with Scizor and Latios @ the above, but there's a few things I'd Like to say on the rest that's being discussed.

For Suicune I see no real reason to merge both sets. They may only have one move that's different between the two, but each set is fundamentally different with regards to how they're played. The teammates between them are also different because you have to account for the fact that Suicune will remain completely passive when it uses Rest with CM Roar. Roar Resttalk Cune is also not a bad option at all because it lets Suicune play more of the role of a wall and CM isn't always more useful considering in some matchups, Suicune is going to hard pressed to sweep and at best will be there to sponge a few hits and fish for burns. Roar and Sleep Talk at least ensures that Suicune can check the Pokemon it needs to without remaining passive when Resting. Also works great in tandem with Spikes.

Regarding Sceptile, Focus Blast is a fine option because it means Sceptile doesn't have to dedicate two slots for hitting Steels so it frees up a slot for Giga Drain, which can be very nice to have when the extra power of Leaf Storm isn't necessary. Of course missing out on Mega Scizor is significant, but it can be worth the tradeoff of having reliability instead, especially if you pair something like Heatran alongside it. This is how I would reorganize the current moveset:

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature / Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
- Earthquake / Giga Drain

With Jellicent and Specs Victini, I'll discuss with the rest of QC to weigh in their thoughts. Personally I'm leaning yes towards Specs Victini and no towards Jellicent. Will post in the reservation index once we reach a consensus.

re SD Garchomp: I'll likely just slash Life Orb before Garchompite on the Mega SD set currently onsite and rename it to "Offensive Swords Dance" because for the most part, they play similarly, so adding a separate set would be superfluous.

 

[AM]

If my opinion means anything I think specs victini should get a strong mention under life orb or other options since its functions is similar with the exception of vcreate. Victini is a barely viable mon to begin with due to its poor synergy with good glue mons and the unfamiliarity of victini would probably lead to a poor or dead analysis of the set, mega ampharos and cofa being a great example. the sets VR sometimes needs to be taken in mind with the idea that it has quicker updates than OU analysis will ever have and can also sometimes be based on whats "hip" and shbject to the opinions of who is running it. More people will be using the dex as a resource than the VR sets and i think unviable or barrly viable mons (jellicent which is only good in the hands of good players mostly.) shouldnt get a huge amount of representation. Its already late in the ORAS stage to be doing niche stuff SR jirachi at least had merit of getting a set because it was getting consistent usage. Victini does not and as the guy who kind of explored specs tini recently its not really something too important personally. Maybe a mention in the perfect world id just remove life orb since its a dumb set anyways for one of the most easy to chip mons.

 

[ericaroselia]

I agree on the changes with Scizor and Latios @ the above, but there's a few things I'd Like to say on the rest that's being discussed.

For Suicune I see no real reason to merge both sets. They may only have one move that's different between the two, but each set is fundamentally different with regards to how they're played. The teammates between them are also different because you have to account for the fact that Suicune will remain completely passive when it uses Rest with CM Roar. Roar Resttalk Cune is also not a bad option at all because it lets Suicune play more of the role of a wall and CM isn't always more useful considering in some matchups, Suicune is going to hard pressed to sweep and at best will be there to sponge a few hits and fish for burns. Roar and Sleep Talk at least ensures that Suicune can check the Pokemon it needs to without remaining passive when Resting. Also works great in tandem with Spikes.

Regarding Sceptile, Focus Blast is a fine option because it means Sceptile doesn't have to dedicate two slots for hitting Steels so it frees up a slot for Giga Drain, which can be very nice to have when the extra power of Leaf Storm isn't necessary. Of course missing out on Mega Scizor is significant, but it can be worth the tradeoff of having reliability instead, especially if you pair something like Heatran alongside it. This is how I would reorganize the current moveset:

Sceptile @ Sceptilite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature / Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
- Earthquake / Giga Drain

With Jellicent and Specs Victini, I'll discuss with the rest of QC to weigh in their thoughts. Personally I'm leaning yes towards Specs Victini and no towards Jellicent. Will post in the reservation index once we reach a consensus.

re SD Garchomp: I'll likely just slash Life Orb before Garchompite on the Mega SD set currently onsite and rename it to "Offensive Swords Dance" because for the most part, they play similarly, so adding a separate set would be superfluous.

Ok thanks for the response, i understand some of your points but the Mega SD set currently has fire blast instead of fire fang, you may want to change that too, i've seen Fang on SD LO and don't see why would you run Fire Blast instead as Fire Fang uses the atk stat that's boosted by SD and is more accurate too plus Fire Blast isn't a guaranteed 2hko on spD Skarmory.

 

[DennisEG]

I support what the cute user AM said above about removing LO on Victini, it just wears down so quickly which limited its switchings and its wallbreaker capabilities. Ebelt should be the main item as you can bluff the choice item (which is more common) and more longevity for luring mons.

 

[Ash Borer]

The Gengar "other options" needs some fixing. The old analysis used to be "utility attacker" and "destiny bond", which has now been replaced by "hex" and "life orb attacker" but the OO mentions the old sets.

Destiny Bond can be used in order to check some offensive threats, provide counterplay against sucker punch, and net a surprise KO on defensive checks. A Choice Specs set using Gengar's coverage and the lack of resistances to Ghost-type moves may seem appealing, but it requires a lot of support to function. Gengar can also beat pretty much every counter with coverage or Trick, but overall, it is inefficient compared to the other sets. A Choice Scarf set can be used to capitalize on Gengar's immunity to Normal-type moves to reliably revenge kill Extreme Speed users, but these are not the biggest threats in the metagame, and it is pretty weak overall. Pain Split is an option for Substitute Gengar to recover health, affording the use of Life Orb on stallbreaking sets. It can also hassle some defensive Pokemon like Chansey or Clefable pretty well by discouraging healing, but a stallbreaking Life Orb Gengar fails to be as effective against stall as one using Black Sludge, nor as effective as an all-out attacker against offense, so it's a situational middle ground. The combination of Substitute and Disable allows Gengar to cripple Pokemon with Choice items or Pokemon that rely on Sucker Punch or priority moves to handle Gengar. Dazzling Gleam can be used on the Life Orb set to 2HKO Utility Mega Sableye, a common switch-in. Gengar has a couple of other coverage options that can beat some specific Pokemon, such as Energy Ball and Psychic, but these moves have limited application compared to the versatility and strength of Gengar's normal options.

I changed a few words and ordering to better reflect the current sets, if anyone wants to use it, feel free

 

[MemeMeme Island]

Ditto has an OU analysis

Not only that, but it gives it way too much credit and mentions other irrelevant mons such as Zoroark and Wobbuffet

 

[DennisEG]

Ditto has an OU analysis

Not only that, but it gives it way too much credit and mentions other irrelevant mons such as Zoroark and Wobbuffet

I submit some updates already. And Zoroark is there more for an explain as it is the only mon with Illusion as ability

 

[Tinberz]

After looking through the Analyses yet another time, here are some suggestions (most are pretty minor):

1) Why does thing thing have SD slashed with U-Turn on the Defensive set? Is it even an option worth considering?
2) I think Focus Sash can be slashed on the items list on the Offensive set as the suicide lead set isn't too bad, at least from my experiences.

I think SD deserves a slash in move 4.

1) I think Focus Sash deserves a slash on the Technician Attacker set.
2) What's with the Poison Heal Attacker set? I actually think it's rubbish and at least replace it with a SubSeedPunch set imo.

Should Stallbreaker remain as the first set because it doesn't actually stallbreak anymore.

I suggest a more Defensive non-mega set to be added as I have been using it for a while and it has been working decently well.
Here is the set:

Latias set

Latias @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Healing Wish
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover

That's all I have for now.

 

[MemeMeme Island]

After looking through the Analyses yet another time, here are some suggestions (most are pretty minor):

I think SD deserves a slash in move 4.

Good luck with attempting to set it up. Weavile is overly frail and weak to rocks, how are you supposed to make use of it? The thing that Weavile does best is all-out physical attacking, which in most cases is the best thing that a Pokemon with high Speed and Attack but low defenses can do.

 

[Martin]

Like, while I could get behind a bulkier Latias spread being listed over the current one I don't really think there's much point to it considering that it's not like the current spread is bad or anything (fwiw I think LO w/ 152 HP / 104 SpA / 252 Spe timid is the best variant but that's kinda subjective at best). I don't think bulkier variants function sufficiently differently to offensive ones to the point where it warrants a separate set, and if anything I think Colbur is a bit of a waste if you don't carry HP Fighting as a lure to at least dent Tyranitar to a degree and ease prediction between Crunch and Pursuit--much less as a mono attacker set--unless used alongside something like Dugtrio in which case it makes sense kinda ish. LO's still better 90% of the time tho as not OHKOing Keldeo with Psychic/Psyshock is dong, and Colbur is v. niche at best. That said, I do think a stronger mention should be given to the possibility of mono attacking Latias in the moves section when it's needed for drastic role compression and I think Psychic should be given a slash as it's a good move on Latias in general for it's higher BP than Shock+ability to hit on special side without dropping SpA. Also give more bulky spreads mentions in set details as they are good.

Focus Sash Loom isn't great tbh and I don't see why it should be slashed given how team-specific SashLoom is in a meta where suicide leads aren't particularly common (that and leading with Breloom definitely puts up a red flag to pick your sleep sac on turn 1 which isn't particularly ideal considering part of what makes Breloom threatening is the ability for it to merely have the threat of Spore in the back rather than over-reliance on it).

Stallbreaker is Mews best set idk why you'd unslash it. It's not like it falls flat vs. stall either, as generally speaking you'd use it in a pink core w/ Clef or smth that can abuse MSab anyway while it is p. effective vs. most of the rest of the archetype barring something like Taunt+BU Talon.

I'm not keen on sacrificing U-turn on defensive Lando-T personally and would only ever really sacrifice SR for it alongside a setting teammate if anything, but it's merits are definitely there and IK the set has seen success in the past namely to stop it being used and abused by Ferrothorn which makes it worth a slash.

Good luck with attempting to set it up. Weavile is overly frail and weak to rocks, how are you supposed to make use of it? The thing that Weavile does best is all-out physical attacking, which in most cases is the best thing that a Pokemon with high Speed and Attack but low defenses can do.

SD Weavile is good hello? It sets up as it forces switches with it's high speed rather than setting up on it's bulk, and honestly just based on personal experience I'd probably even put it above Low Kick/PJab as I use it more and it's generally more consistent for me than both of these variants are, although I'm sure someone would beg to differ about that which is why I'm not 100% sure a slash is necessary. Point is SD is good. (Also if you've ever used DarkSpam you will know that SD is basically mandatory on Weavile on such teams to take best advantage of the way that the archetype functions.) As a cleaner, SD Weavile is p. consistent in general and can often win games on the spot if key checks like Keldeo/MegaZor/Talon/Lop etc. are weakened or eliminated (depending on what Pokémon/set is beign referred to) due to the drastic increase in power provided by SD.

 

[p2]

sd weaviles fuckin amazing why does it not have a mention

and regarding above points

uturn slashed with sd makes the most sense as you're not gonna run sd uturn on a defensive lando and not to mention you have literally 0 room for it, sd is used to be less passive against scizor and ferrothorn while also pressuring opposing bulky grounds and clefable more. idc about sash, but really is there much point to running it over yache/pasho/lum/eplate. mostly because sash rock setters are garbage

sash loom is really bad because it's weak and theres so much shit running around that the sash is never gonna remain intact, it's fine in other options

idk whats with the PH set but AM has memed on me a couple of times with it, it's actually really annoying to deal with, not the most viable thing ever but its decent

stallbreaker is mews best set regardless of whether it actually stallbreaks or not, it still has so many good matchups which make it a huge pain for unprepared teams to deal with.

idk about defensive regular latias before, i used it a couple of times and i've not been impressed by it but then i think regular latias is kinda horrible sooo

 

[DennisEG]

Just to add on p2's post about landot and the other points above, the mention on sash is in oo. I write thaat analysis a couple weeks ago

 

[HailFall]

What do people think about making special attacker the first set on the mega altaria analysis? I think its pretty much the only truly effective set right now with so many steels running around. The immediate power and coverage combined with decent bulk makes it a much bigger threat than any other set on that list imo as the rest all have suuper big issues hindering their effectiveness (ddd and support sets being easily pressured by hazards and walled and also constantly forfeiting momentum to the opponent as they have to constantly roost on a lot, offensive dd having issues finding setup opportunities, and both dd sets being easily revenge killed by super common stuff like mega scizor). Obviously the special attacker set has some issues such as not having the defense investment to reliably switch into certain stuff fully defensive variants can and low speed, but this set is has been much more consistently effective across various matchups than any other altaria set has been in my experience. Calm clefable walls this which is pretty significant though bold sets have been becoming more popular lately and alt can pretty easily break these with only a bit of prior damage. Even if this doesnt become the first set i think it should definitely be above the support set which is super easy to stop and take advantage of.

 

[DennisEG]

I think altaria in general is p bad right now. Amoonguss, talon, skarm, Ferro, weav, and sciz, all of this mons are p common and check both set, being only ferro and sciz straight hko.
The problem i found with the special set is that you gotta choose between eq or heal bell in the last slot.
I honestly dont found any problem with order of the sets, either way alt isnt good for a mega slot imo.

 

[Martin]

Honestly I think that nowadays if you are using Alt at all it is for either it's SpA variant or it's defensive Body Slam variant anyway tbh. DD Alt has a slew of problems that make it a v. mediocre pick in general at least imo and probably it's worst set nowadays, and I don't really like Heal Bell much on SpA Alt anyway and I think that Hyper Voice+Fire Blast+EQ+Roost is better than it on the majority of teams. That's just me though and I'm sure a lot of people disagree. Either way though yeah Alt is kinda bad nowadays and I wouldn't get too hung up on it's analysis.

 

[Tinberz]

Back again with more humble suggestions:

Hydreigon
I have been trying the (Modest) Specs sets for a while now and it's been working fantastically, even more so than my experiences with the LO set. This thing kinda reminds me of BW Hydra. Specs has some advantages which include not taking random 10% damage every time you attack (LO has Roost but it takes up an important moveslot for coverage and also spends a turn you could deal a lot of damage on) and just literally 2HKOing every mon that doesn't resist Dark Pulse.

I suggest its Specs set to be added and I could write the analysis for it if it's not urgent. I also encourage I/Cs to try it out first instead of outright dissing me if you don't agree (I won't persist if you guys say 'no', don't worry).
This is the set:

Specs Hydreigon Set

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon

Excadrill
On this guy's overview, it says: "With its devastating offensive capabilities and inability to be revenge killed in sand". I find it slightly misleading, as it can definitely be revenge killed by decently common priority such as Breloom's Mach Punch and Azu's Aqua Jet. Maybe it can say something about having "blazing speed" in sand, basically just targeting the speed part instead.
Also, I feel that Adamant should be slashed in front of Jolly because you want to hit as hard as possible most of the time. Also, LO is slashed in front of Balloon and LO should always go with Adamant, at least imo.

That's all I have for now, thanks for reading.

 

[DennisEG]

About hydreigon, in the analisys already mention the CS set. In oo as well saying the downfall which is being choice lock. The main niche hydreigon has is that possesses a wide movepool that can advantage of its massive power.