OU CCAT - Mark III (Laddering/Discussing - See Post #547)

[ginganinja]

its actually 1 less for Abomasnow, Bronzong and Latias since Bubbly's vote doesn't count. He was banned for making alts (which proceeded to then vote in the CCAT) ergo, I don't consider him deserving on a vote. Idk if that makes it close enough to Rotom-W to warrant keeping this open, that will be up to CCAT leaders.

 

[Eranu]

Specially Defensive Bronzong
Specially Defensive Rotom-W
Specially Defensive Skarmory

 

[Jirachee]

Sdef rotom-w !!!

 

[Ambicrow3]

Specially Defensive Bronzong

 

[Electrolyte]

Alright, I'm closing voting now. I've got my power back, so hopefully we can get this project running at full speed from now on!

First things first: the winner of this round's vote is PenguinX's SpD Bronzong!

here's the set:

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
IVs: 2 Spd
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball / Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Toxic
- Earthquake / Toxic

PenguinX's vote points have now increased to 2- meaning that his votes will count for doube the amount from now on!

Now it's time for more nominations. Here's what the team looks like right now:

the team

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb *** PenguinX
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Earthquake
- Taunt / Toxic

Keldeo @ Leftovers *** alexwolf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power Electric

Tyranitar @ Choice Band *** bubbly
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Superpower

Bronzong @ Leftovers *** PenguinX
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SDef
IVs: 2 Spd
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball / Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Toxic
- Earthquake / Toxic

bubbly has been banned, so his voting points are now erased. That leaves alexwolf and PenguinX as the only two bonus holders! See if you can get their approval in the next nomination!

Now, we're nominating our fifth member. It seems that we're running more of a sand balanced type of team, which is cool, so keep in mind what usually works best under the conditions our team already has. We should aim to fit in

~a revenge killer
~another receiver
~and possibly a hazard controller

in our last two slots. Let's see what comes out!

Voting will last for 2 days, closing Monday night. Get to it!

 

[exotic]

Nominating the one and only:

Alakazam@Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Psychic
-Shadow Ball
-Hidden Power Ice
-Focus Blast

The best thing is that this set doesn't need a choice scarf to revenge kill pokemon. So you can use his coverage to weaken teams to the point where Keldeo sweeps. Also, Alakazams counters are Jirachi, Blissey, Chansey, scizor and Genesect. Those are a free substitute for Gliscor, except for Genesect. With his speed you need something that posesses a Scarf and Focus Sash keeps them away from doing that. Dark and Bug attacks are set-up by keldeo. The evs are straightforwarded, max speed and timid to outspeed almost the whole tier. HP Ice because of Keldeo not having HP Ice so Alakazam can revenge kill the dragons that got a free set-up. If we will stick with HP Ice on Keldeo, we could change it to HP fire so that he can revenge kill Genesect.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

So, if we need a revenge killer.... Well, I'm finding the most problematic thing to be Venusaur under sun, since, when boosted, it one-shots pretty much everything at this point. We could run Scarf Terrakion, but it doesn't OHKO Venusaur. Mamoswine would help, but at this point I don't think we should be compounding Grass weaknesses, and we definitely shouldn't be compounding Water weaknesses. So...

Nominating Choice Scarf Latios

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire
- Trick

Outspeeds and OHKOes Modest Venusaur under Sun, so that's one problem out of the way. Additionally, unboosted Venusaur does not OHKO with Sludge Bomb or HP Ice. Having a Choice Scarf user that outspeeds and OHKOes Genesect is pretty cool too, so we'll be able to get rid of that thing that can beat Gliscor, Tyranitar, and Bronzong. It's also nice to have something faster than Choice Scarf Salamence, who this team seems to have trouble with once Bronzong is down. Having a nice back-up to Scarfmence seems to be a pretty big deal to me, so... Having a second Water resist would help too, since you don't really wanna go up against Rain with one Water resist.

 

[alexwolf]

Keldeo and Rotom-W are huge threats as of now, as well as Rain teams and Sun teams in general. Latias would be a good candidate for the 5th spot, but i dislike two things about it: 1. It can be easily trapped and killed by Tyranitar, which can be brought in safely with a Volt Switch from Rotom-W for example. 2. Latias hates status, which many Rotom-W carry. This means that sandstorm + status could become too much for Latias to handle. Not to mention that if we go for a defensive CM Latias instead of a LO Tank (LO + ss damage + possible status? i don't think it will make it) then Latias will be set-up bait for most hazard setters in OU. This will possibly force us to chose a Rapid Spinner in the last slot, instead of a scarfer, but a scarfer would fit really well. So, because of those reasons i nominate:

Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 204 Spd / 48 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

Celebi handles Keldeo and Rotom-W like a boss. It also helps our team tank Water attacks in rain, which are otherwise very problematic. Also Celebi can avoid getting Pursuit trapped because he has the tools to destroy both Tyranitar and Scizor, unlike Latias. Leaf Storm to hit hard, Psychic for reliable STAB and to OHKO Torn-T after SR, and deal with dragons and Thund-T, and HP Fire for steels. I think he is a good pick. Celebi also kills most hazards setters in OU, as well as spinners (HP Fire deals with Forretress, Leaf Storm with Starmie and Donphan, and Psychic with Tentacruel), making sure that we won't need a spinner, and that SR will be up the majority of the times. With Celebi we will be Sun weak, but i believe that this issue can be fixed in the last slot with a Pokemon such as CB Dragonite or a Scarfer such as Latios.

EDIT: Forgot to explain EV spread... Speed EVs allow Celebi to outpseed Jolly Mamo, max SpA for power, 4 SpD for Genesect, and rest in HP.

 

[TGMD]

Nominating LO Latias.

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Evs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spe
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

This Latias is an amazing offensive water resist, and one of the best sun checks in the current metagame. It also destroys Breloom, Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Rotom-W etc, and overall, Latias patches up almost all of our biggest weaknesses quite nicely. Latias' moveset is pretty much the standard Life Orb Latias. I usually run Psyshock in the 3rd slot, but then again I usually have Latias on a team with Magnezone, so I opted for Hidden Power [Fire] to maim Scizor, so the only common Pursuit trapper worth worrying about is Tyranitar (who has gone down in usage dramatically since BW, due to rain becoming the most common weather, Dugtrio usage skyrocketing etc.) The EV spread gives it a Life Orb recoil number, as well as a good amount of bulk, so that it has an easier time switching in on the likes of opposing Keldeo.

I may as well copy PenguinX's team matchup format and see how Latias helps against each team:

Sun Offense:

Sun is something we desperately need to check, and as you can see, Latias checks / counters 5/6 members of this team. Latias only really needs to worry about Genesect, who is killed by Hidden Power [Fire] anyway, meaning nothing can switch in safely. Latias would help immensely with our match up against sun.

Rain Offense:

Latias obviously helps quite a lot here as well, it’s a good water resist, it checks half the team, and is especially helpful for Politoed and Keldeo. There’s the problem with Genesect again, and this time Latias can’t OHKO it. So, it’s not as good of a rain check as it is a sun check, but it’ll still help a lot.

Sand Offense 1:

With correct prediction Latias does a pretty good job of weakening this team for Keldeo, but we need to be wary, because most of the team can KO Latias after a bit of residual damage, and Rotom-W can heavily cripple Latias with Thunder Wave. Latias is overall pretty useful to have against this team.

Sand Offense 2:

Latias probably won’t be doing much against this team, Tyranitar wrecks it, and Genesect can cause problems as well. Latias is another Fighting resist, which is nice for Terrakion, and it's a good check to Rotom-W. If we manage to weaken Tyranitar they’ll have trouble switching in on Latias. The Sandstorm damage isn't too kind to Latias, losing 16.25% (Life Orb + Sandstorm) is irritating to say the least. If Tyranitar does kill Latias, in most cases we’ll get a free switch-in to Gliscor, which could help a lot late game. Overall, Latias won’t really help too much unless we can weaken Tyranitar.

DragMag:

Latias can’t really reliably switch in on anything, but if it gets a switch-in opportunity then it can do some damage. It can hit and run with Draco Meteors, their only switch in is Magnezone. Latias doesn’t really give the opposing dragons many set-up opportunities, and neither Starmie nor Mamoswine can OHKO Latias at full health. Latias can help against this team if we play well.

Heavy Offense:

Yeah, as PenguinX said last time, these teams vary too much to say whether we have a good matchup or not; Latias generally helps against most of them though.

Baton Pass:

Latias doesn’t really contribute too much to defeating these teams. But, we already have a good enough match up against these teams anyway.

Overall, we matchup pretty well against every team bar Sand Offense 2 (which, in my experience, is the least common weather offense team.) This weakness can be patched up with the Choice Scarfer we add in next round. A 2nd check to Rotom-W that dosen't care about Tyranitar would be useful.

 

[ganj4lF]

Nominating Scarf Latias:

Latias @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
Timid | 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- HP Fire
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish

It carries somewhat the same advantages that TGMD's Latias has, namely awesome offensive resist to many things, Fighting, Water, Electric, Ground, but it's also a check to that plethora of faster threats that can hurt us badly right now. I won't copy and comment again the team archetypes list, since it would result something very similar to TGMD's post, however this Latias has the advantage of not being dead weight if an enemy Dragon manages to reach +1 Spe, and most importantly it can help immensely winning weather wars by sacrificing itself (before it gets killed, hopefully possible thanks to unparalleled Speed) and healing our weather inducer to full, removing also status effects that may affect him. While the LO set is great, and packs much more power behind its attacks, I found while playing TGMD's team that it can be easily worn down and forced out by combined residual damage of LO + SS + SR, and since Genesect is everywhere, ready to switch-in and force you out, most of the times preventing you from Recovering, having a LO - free poke can be a nontrivial advantage (obviously on top of the advantages a Scarf user brings...). So, overall, it's a fast check to Keldeo, Breloom, most Thundurus, Venusaur (well, very shaky, but +2 Timid Sludge Bomb needs Rocks to OHKO, and Modest is destroyed by Psyshock anyway) heck even Tornadus and Genesect if they don't realize the item it's carrying, while being able to absorb Water attacks with relative ease and support the team hugely via Healing Wish, giving us basically two lives on our weather inducer.

 

[Reymedy]

I believe I'm gonna name the revenge killer, because as the team begins to shift, it doesn't really look like anymore to what I've thought in the first place.
However this experience improved ALOT my vision on the game and helped me to build a bunch of decent looking teams.
So, maybe there will be two Scarfers, and that's why I'm gonna nominate this revenge killer. At this point, a dragon typed revenge killer fix so many issues that it's hard for me to think about another member. That's why I rather propose one, then this being done, think peacefully about the last member.

Here is the nomination :

@

Moxie
4 HP / 126 Atk / 126 SpA / 252 Speed
Hasty/Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake


Some people may just think that I want to nominate something, that Salamence is an inferior option to the fancy Latios that everyone plays.
This is not the case.
I played Latios since start when I did test with the team and I found something wrong.
I never thought this would be this pokemon that I would change, however at the moment EVRYBODY knows how to deal with Latios. Most of the time there is this bulky Steel that can take your Draco Meteor and even your HP Fire (not even talking about Rain) if you manage to realise a good prediction.
Then your Latios sure did some damages, but he's basically forced to god back, putting you in a tough situation.

With Salamence things are so different. He's one of the most uncontrollable pokemon, that can sweep a whole team with ease.
It can come on things like Breloom easily thanks to this *4 resistance to Grass and his mixed moveset allow him to threat anything.
Before, when I was building a team I was almost always using Latios as my revenge killer, now I really considerate this Salamence given his ability to not be walled easily.
Sun teams can almost be 6*0HKO by Earthquake, Outrage just crush anything else on the physical side. Fire blast to destroy the Steels that resist it.
Draco Meteor is the other strong stab that doesn't force Salamence to be locked into Outrage. Sometimes enemies try to bait you so you get locked and revenged killed, I'm always happy to just crush them with Draco Meteor.


This nomination probably wont have alot of success I believe given the other *4 weakness to Ice, but keep in mind that the raw mixed power of a Salamence is something that Latios and most of the revenge killer can only dream of. Moreover there is nothing that can stop a Moxie Outraging Salamence in the late game, when he begins to stack boosts. And currently far less team are prepared to this, and far less players are actually able to predict your actions with this monster.

 

[TGMD]

...Latias would be a good candidate for the 5th spot, but i dislike two things about it: 1. It can be easily trapped and killed by Tyranitar, which can be brought in safely with a Volt Switch from Rotom-W for example. 2. Latias hates status, which many Rotom-W carry. This means that sandstorm + status could become too much for Latias to handle...With Celebi we will be Sun weak, but i believe that this issue can be fixed in the last slot with a Pokemon such as CB Dragonite or a Scarfer such as Latios...

Latias is intended as a weather killer, it's an amazing check to both sun and rain. If we lose it to a Sandstorm team, it's really not that much of a problem, because most common sand threats are covered by the rest of the team. And although it's true it dies rather quickly in the sand while being statused, it'll often be used as a hit and run pokemon. It's worth mentioning that Celebi usually isn't that great against Tyranitar sandstorm teams either, if it kills something with Leaf Storm, then most Tyranitar variants can come in and beat it 1v1. This kinda restricts it to only using Hidden Power [Fire] and Psychic, which has pretty average coverage.

Sun is really problematic atm, and Celebi magnifies that, we don't really have anything to stop Venusaur at all, Tyranitar is trapped by Dugtrio, and then there's pretty much nothing that can be done. The only thing that can take a hit without Venusaur healing itself with Giga Drain is Bronzong, who is 2HKOed by Hidden Power [Fire], and dosen't come close to KOing back. Choice Band Dragonite is weak to Stealth Rock, it's going to be losing 1/4 of its health every time it comes in to revenge kill Venusaur, and after 2 switch-ins, it's within KO range of Sludge Bomb, not only that, but Extremespeed only does ~50%. Choice Scarf Latios would be better, but that's quite a bit of pressure on a pokemon than lacks a revoery move, and just look at how potent our Genesect weakness would be, it simply destroys the team with correct prediction. Imo it would be really beneficial to add our sun check now and save our last slot for a revenge killer that dosen't have too much of a problem with Genesect. But then again, that's just my point of view (which is a biased one), lol.

...While the LO set is great, and packs much more power behind its attacks, I found while playing TGMD's team that it can be easily worn down and forced out by combined residual damage of LO + SS + SR, and since Genesect is everywhere, ready to switch-in and force you out, most of the times preventing you from Recovering, having a LO - free poke can be a nontrivial advantage (obviously on top of the advantages a Scarf user brings...

I do like Scarf Latias, but if Latias gets added, it'll be our main water resist, seeing as our only other one is Keldeo, who is our main sweeper, so it should never really be switching in on anything, even when it comes in for a sweep it'll usually be coming in via Baton Pass. And if our main water resist lacks recovery, then we'll be extra weak to rain offense. Specs Politoed 2HKOs Latias with Hydro Pump, and OHKOs with Ice Beam after 2 switch-ins to Stealth Rock. Without LO Latias can't even OHKO Politoed back. This means that if we take this path, to patch up our weaknesses with the last slot we'll need: a water resist, preferably with recovery, that checks Rotom-W, sand offense 2, Volcarona (it can come in on Bronzong and we lose if it gets to +2, so we'd have to go to Tyranitar, but if we switch in on Bug Buzz then it comes in later and it's gg, it's a 50/50.), Genesect and dragmag (we're still somewhat weak to this, our steel is Specially Defensive, making all the physical dragons too overpowering for it to handle, it's also prone to Magnezone. Then, if bronzong dies, Mamoswine can also cause some major damage. And Latias usually has to switch out after each time it revenge kills due to the Special Attack drop.) I really don't think there's a pokemon in OU that can do all that.

I'm sorry if I may have sounded harsh, or too critical. The intention of this post was definitely not to say your noms are bad or anything, I don't think that at all. It was mainly to show voters what we would need to do if we went down these paths, and (hopefully) to start some discussion on the team (since the start of nominations for team member 5, there's been no discussion, only noms :()

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

Since we're all getting our panties in a bunch over Dragons, I'll nominate SubRoost Kyurem, in an attempt to obtain what Latias would grant us and something more.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Pressure
56 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest
~ Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam
~ Earth Power / Focus Blast
~ Roost
~ Substitute

Resists water, has recovery, does OK against sun, checks Rotom-W and doesn't give two fucks about Genesect (unless it carries flash cannon). Mamoswine can KO with predicted SE / Superpower, but if it doesn't predict right, Kyurem can just PP-stall the move. Sand Offense usually isn't its best match up, but Substitute lets it deal with Terrakion / Landorus nicely.

EDIT: If Kyu-B were to be unbanned (and eligible), Teravolt would let it KO Rotom with Earth Power, so that'd be hella cool.

 

[Electrolyte]

Dragons and Psychics seem to work well right now. Nominating Bulky DDnite.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Adamant / 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Dragon dance / Outrage / Extremespeed / Fire Punch

What does Dragonite do that other dragons don't? Multiple things- it has a lot of bulk- enough to take hits from many moderately powerful attackers. Not only that, at +1 Dnite can also OHKO SpD Rotom- eliminating it as a possible threat. But let's not get too in to detail just yet. What else can Dnite do?

~Wall Sun and Rain. Move over Salamence, there's a new bad boy in town. Multiscale gives Dnite the initial bulk it needs to take hits while it sets up. It wondrous typing gives it resistances to water and fire, the two STABs of opposing weather, and its secondary flying typing allows it to have a x4 resistance to Grass, as well as an immunity to Dugtrio, which can trap most other resisting pokemon. With Extremespeed, Dnite can OHKO Venasaur at +1 after SR ~60% of the time- while a hopeful Sub or Lum Berry can keep it from being put to sleep as it Dances. Its typing also helps against water types and Keldeos lacking coverage- resisting fighting and water.

~It has great synergy. This trait is shared between Salamence and Dragonite, but Dnite gets more of the deal because it has greater bulk. It can take water and grass for Gliscor, Grass for Keldeo, Fire for Bronzong, and Fighting, Ground, Water, and Grass for Tyranitar. It is an excellent sub reciever, since Gliscor baits out many bulky water types that Dragonite has no trouble setting up on. Gliscor's Taunt also helps Dragonite by preventing Skarmory from coming in to Whirlwind and set up, though in the face of Skarm passing to Keldeo is a better idea.

~It has priority, and great coverage. This is a big selling point- as it allows Dragonite to finish off weakened threats. After a Dragon Dance, it's very powerful- capable of ripping holes even though it's not STAB'd. As I said before, it OHKO's Venasaur after rocks more than half the time- and SR+Lo recoil will always take it down. Originally I had Roost, but Fire Punch allows Dnite to hit Ferrothorn and most other steels hard. Heatran will be hard to get past, but Gliscor and Keldeo handle it easily, so it should not be a problem at all.

 

[Bossness]

Since we're all getting our panties in a bunch over Dragons, I'll nominate SubRoost Kyurem, in an attempt to obtain what Latias would grant us and something more.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Pressure
56 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest
~ Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam
~ Earth Power / Focus Blast
~ Roost
~ Substitute

Resists water, has recovery, does OK against sun, checks Rotom-W and doesn't give two fucks about Genesect (unless it carries flash cannon). Mamoswine can KO with predicted SE / Superpower, but if it doesn't predict right, Kyurem can just PP-stall the move. Sand Offense usually isn't its best match up, but Substitute lets it deal with Terrakion / Landorus nicely.

EDIT: If Kyu-B were to be unbanned (and eligible), Teravolt would let it KO Rotom with Earth Power, so that'd be hella cool.

Yes! Finally someone who recogizes Kyurem awesomeness. To be clear, it doesn't do just "OK" against sun, it kills everything there. I beat Lavos' Sun team with Kyurem when it was being used by Kevin Garrett. Ninetales/Dugtrio/Venusaur/Genesect/Xatu/Victini......it beats everything there. Just one problem......sandstorm. I usually prefer Life Orb>Leftovers for the power boost. Life Orb+Sandstorm+Substitute means that it will be losing health very fast. Without life orb, it is very weak; it is unable to KO Specially defensive Heatran and also fail to 2hko Scizor and Jirachi. I would actually propose using the life orb attacker.

Kyurem @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 32 HP / 248 SAtk / 4 SDef / 224 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roost

32 hp is for the life orb number. 4 Sdef to give Genesect an attack boost and 224 speed with timid nature to outspeed max speed Landorus-T. Kyurem can be used to check Haxorus and Hydreigon since they almost never use a speed-boosting nature. Focus Blast is an option to deal good damage to nearly KO Tyranitar and deal good damage to Blissey.
The newly updated Rotom's Bulky Attacker uses 184 hp evs.
252SpAtk Life Orb Kyurem (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 184HP/0SpDef Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 97% - 115% (280 - 331 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 86% chance to OHKO.
This is a guaranteed KO with sandstorm. Kyurem definitely works better than Latias. Its not weak to Genesect and can roost on its U-turn to regain health. It can also lure in Chansey/Blissey handily for Gliscor/Keldeo/Tyranitar. Mamoswine is also handily checked by this Variant of Kyurem. Kyurem can also switch into an earthquake if it needs to and KO back with Draco Meteor. Politoed will often switch into Kyurem expecting the SubRoost set. Kyurem can hit it on the switch with Draco Meteor and let our team win the weather war. Politoed will have to switch out afterwards unless it wants to be pursuited by Tyranitar. Kyurem can also beat some of Keldeo's counters such as Starmie and Celebi. It can act as a check to Tornadus-T should Bronzong be in low health.

 

[TGMD]

Kyurem is cool, but then we're really weak to fighting. Keldeo is massive weakness, and the likes of Breloom, Conkeldurr, Scrafty etc are going to be major problems as well. For the last slot we'll need a revenge killer, who's a dedicated fighting resist, helps alot against dragmag, Volcarona, and sand offense 2.

EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier, but Kyurem's Stealth Rock weakness really reduces its ability to switch in on rain boosted Hydro Pumps.

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

Kyurem is cool, but then we're really weak to fighting. Keldeo is massive weakness, and the likes of Breloom, Conkeldurr, Scrafty etc are going to be major problems as well. For the last slot we'll need a revenge killer, who's a dedicated fighting resist, helps alot against dragmag, Volcarona, and sand offense 2.

Well ATM Volcarona is reasonably dealt with thanks to Keldeo, unless Volc is using Giga Drain.

Scarf Latios seems like it does everything else pretty well though.

 

[Phazon00]

Hmmm... we're weak to fighting, you say. And we need a revenge killer. I may have just a solution-

Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Hammer Arm

In sand, Landorus is insane. Sand Force-boosted EQs and Stone Edges hurt, and U-Turn helps the team's momentum. It also patches up that insane fighting weakness we have managed to build up, as well as working as an effective revenge killer. It may seem weird to have two Ground-Flying types, but this typing has fantastic synergy with Keldeo and Tyranitar, creating an effective core. Also, they do completely different things, so don't compare the two of 'em.

 

[Superpowerdude]

I dont really like the idea of Landorus only because it makes team rain weak

 

[ginganinja]

Dragons and Psychics seem to work well right now. Nominating Bulky DDnite.


Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Adamant / 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Dragon dance / Outrage / Extremespeed / Roost

No


I should note I have no problem with Dragonite as a whole (tho atm I prefer Lati@s for our team), but I can think of about 5 different dragonite sets that are better for our team than yours. At least give it some speed ffs, and perhapes a way of handling steel types or something (which its walled by). Remember, its not aways going to be able to be passed a sub, and without a sub, that set is pretty bad.

 

[Shurtugal]

Personally like the merits Scarf Latias offers, especially HW. Checks / Counters major threats posed to the team, and considering as many users (originally me; since I nom'ed it first o;) have already proven this. The fact that it's been nominated for three rounds already says something, and I think Scarf Latias has that extra bulk to both abuse a substitute pass and tank rain hits (which it arguably can do better than Celebi).

The only problem I have with the Lati@s switch is: Genesect (especially Giga Variants w/ RP). Our next pokemon will need to check / counter it for sure.

 

[Masamune]

This team has a problem with rain and sun, you say?

Altaria (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP/6 SpA/252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell
- Roar
- Roost

Whilst Altaria might seem initially underwhelming, she has one massive ace up her sleeve: Cloud Nine. For those of you who don't know, it nullifies the effects of weather whilst she is on the field. This has a host of benefits, amongst which include:
* It essentially removes Chlorophyll, making initially-slow sun sweepers easy to deal with.
* It removes the power boost to water and fire moves under their respective weathers, letting her switch in in these with impunity.
* It prevents recovery via abilities like Rain Dish.
* It negates the SpD boost opposing rock types get under sandstorm.
* It stops residual damage via hail/sand, letting leftovers do its job easily.
* Probably a lot more, but it's 1am and I'm very tired.

Altaria has insane special bulk and resists common attacking types often seen on weather teams, such as fire, water, bug, fighting, ground and grass (x4!). I've used on on just about every weather less team I run on PS, and found her checking/outright walling some of the metagame's most dangerous threats, which include, but are not limited to, Volcarona, Venusaur, Breloom (after spore), Tornadus-T, non-ice Keldeo, Thundurus-T without NP and Nnetales. Rain and sun teams have huge problems with her. Her resistances and bulk allow her plenty of opportunities to switch in and heal the entire team, something which is always nice. Roar is handy for phasing away thing like Volcarona, who then have to switch in and take some more SR damage. Roost is for longevity and it somewhat alleviates a fairly obviously stealth rock weakness.

Also, it's fucking Altaria.

(I understand the format of this post may be hard to read, so I'm going to go through it again tomorrow when I'm a little less tired.)

 

[TGMD]

Well ATM Volcarona is reasonably dealt with thanks to Keldeo, unless Volc is using Giga Drain.

Scarf Latios seems like it does everything else pretty well though.

Keldeo only does 30.87% - 36.66% to +2 (Keldeo switches in while Volcarona Quiver Dances, Volcarona then outspeeds and Quiver Dances again) 0/0 Volcarona under the sun with Hydro Pump, and +2 Timid Volcarona does 101.24% - 119.50% to Keldeo with Fire Blast under the sun. Keldeo does 60.45% - 72.03% to +2 0/0 Volcarona outside of sun, and +2 Life Orb Timid Volcarona does 87.93% - 103.72% to Keldeo outside of sun (not a guarenteed KO, but anything is possible. Life Orb variants carry Giga Drain pretty often anyway, and Modest variants aren't exactly uncommon either.) So Keldeo really dosen't do very well against Volcarona. Scarf Latios is a fighting resist, but not a reliable one, its lack of defense and recovery means it won't be switching in on many fighting attacks. Sand Offense 2 not only has Tyranitar, it also has 3 pivots to Tyranitar, meaning Scarf Latios really won't be very effective against it. And although it's better against dragmag, it can't stay in and spam Draco Meteors, it'll have to switch out due to the Special Attack drop, and it's Mamoswine weak.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Okay. We're looking for a revenge killer, and nobody has even mentioned genesect. Now, I have no problem with this, since I've been avoiding using it too. But unless we have a rule that I've missed outlawing the robot bug (probably what's actually going on), we should at least look at it.

 

[Reymedy]

Genesect is just not fast enough in my opinion. Latios got the merit of being faster with a scarf than almost any other pokemon but is quite easy to wall (especially under rain if we run the Hidden Power Fire set) and Salamence got the merit of being incredibly hard to handle at the cost of some speed. However after trying the two Dragons for some time, I think Salamence take more benefit from the team thanks to its versatility. This team needs tempo on its side (with things like dry passing), we need a pokemon that got the ability to get a kill on anything when entering the battle and that put a great pressure.
Moreover (and this is my personnal focus at the moment) I really want something that can shut down Breloom and watching how low sweep crushs Genesect, it annoys me to be honest. At the moment nothing in our team can switch in a Low Sweep once Breloom put something to sleep.
I have a poor overview of the metagame given my low experience, that's why I always try to focus on what annoyed me the most. And with no doubt Breloom is for now a massiv pain for us that we need to solve.