Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but does Rotom-Wash learn Scald?

:bw/rotom-wash:

I know it doesn’t, but one of my high school friends insists to this day that used to be able to. Thematically I feel like it would make a lot of sense, I feel like, but Rotom’s movepool has generally been the same across all of its forms outside of the specific moves it can learn when actually changing forms. I think I know where this misconception came from- it’s a bulky Water-Type that can inflict Burn in battles, but unlike something like, say, Jellicent, the Burn in question is only ever coming from a Will-o-Wisp instead of a stray Scald hit.

I’ll try and keep the theorymonning and wishlisting to a minimum, but I can’t help but wonder how much different Rotom’s forms would be if it had more moves available between the different forms. Hurricane Rotom-Fan, Freeze-Dry Rotom-Frost, and Burn Up Rotom-Heat all feel like they could have some thematic and even competitive potential, among other options.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
Zebras are famously foul-tempered, unpleasant creatures with very violent tendencies, so it fits the cruel/brutal Dark vibe - I'm actually surprised it doesn't get more Dark moves
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I actually had no idea about that! go Figure.

Again, Huntail is quite Dark-coded (its Ultra Moon dex entry even mentions it being considered an ill omen) and a crafty/sneaky hunter
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I'm not saying it doesn't fit Huntail necessarily, just that it would fit the cruel & presumably sneaky Gorebyss just as well. Gorebyss' movepool also has a few "oddball" moves in it like Shadow Ball & Psychic so it'd fit about as well as the other Psychics that get it (despite not being Psychic at all)

It's greedy.
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No? It has very little lore honestly, beyond being good at digging and being lazy in its off time (Respect the work-life balance).

Yeah, this one's a bit weird but I guess the implication is that its speed lets it tap into some vaguely precognitive and sense-based abilities - it also gets Quick Guard, Me First, and Feint.
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There are a few other "speedster" Pokemon that get it so I guess that fits. Little surprised Deoxys-S didn't get it by level up (obviously it can have it no problem even back in gen 3 with form changing), but Deoxys-D's movepool was made before Speed was even thought of so it got a little awkward.

Again, it's greedy and fits with Munchlax getting Pickup, which in Gen V literally collects an item out of thin air (like, even if the opposing Pokemon eats a berry a Pickup user can still collect it, how does that work exactly?)
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I did just say in that same bit that it fits in a more literal sense. It just strikes me as odd that it only got it 2 generations later, and as a level up move too. So it was really something they want to stand out for the line, but only when they circled back to it after 6 years and the other natural learners are all either Jerks, Fast or Psychic. Or Heatmor who is also taking it in a more literal sense - not coincidentally also gen 5 actually...
 
R_N said:
No? It has very little lore honestly, beyond being good at digging and being lazy in its off time (Respect the work-life balance).
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So this is really funny, but I read "Diggersby" and my mind went "Greedent"

They're both Pokemon I thoroughly dislike (really not fond of the "derpy blob" archetype or the regional rodents in general, except for Furret who I quite like) and I regularly mix up which gen they're from as they're both particularly good examples of the shift in artstyle over time.

So my mind was more on Greedent, but idk Diggersby gives a greedy vibe too: it's fat, and also has Pickup and Cheek Pouches as abilities so it has the same acquiring-food aptitude Munchlax displays. And laziness may also play into Snatch: I'm not going to bother getting something myself, I'll just wait for you to get it and steal it off you. It's how a lot of real-world animals get their food tbf.
 
Stories said:
You would think Meloetta would be the perfect user of Psychic Noise.

It's Psychic

It makes noise

It does not learn Psychic Noise?
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Psychic Noise is a move wherein the user makes a sound that is viscerally unpleasant.

Meloetta is a pokemon that prides itself on it's beautiful singing that taps into deep seated emotions in those listening to it. Happy or Sad, it focuses on reaching into the hearts of those around it, and inspires them to create art, to sing and to dance.

Maybe it could do something to recreate the auditory sensation of using an over-tuned stage microphone to play spin the bottle, but it also might just not want to do that. It goes against it's whole deal as a minor art deity and all.

Consider that prideful if you will, but I can appreciate that Meloetta has standards.
 
Stories said:
You would think Meloetta would be the perfect user of Psychic Noise.

It's Psychic

It makes noise

It does not learn Psychic Noise?
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Genuine_Angus_B33F said:
Psychic Noise is a move wherein the user makes a sound that is viscerally unpleasant.

Meloetta is a pokemon that prides itself on it's beautiful singing that taps into deep seated emotions in those listening to it. Happy or Sad, it focuses on reaching into the hearts of those around it, and inspires them to create art, to sing and to dance.

Maybe it could do something to recreate the auditory sensation of using an over-tuned stage microphone to play spin the bottle, but it also might just not want to do that. It goes against it's whole deal as a minor art deity and all.

Consider that prideful if you will, but I can appreciate that Meloetta has standards.
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So basically, the same reason it doesn't get Boomburst.

leafsaber47 said:
Another mon that doesn't learn Slack Off THAT REALLY SHOULD is Spinda. If you subscribe to the fact that "alcoholic = sloth", then this drunken stupor-wielding red panda should get this move.

Not like Spinda finally getting reliable recovery in Slack Off is going to help its viability (of which there is none).
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Looking at the list of Pokémon that learn it, the criteria seems to be stupid Pokémon more so than lazy ones.
 
AztecCroc said:
Looking at the list of Pokémon that learn it, the criteria seems to be stupid Pokémon more so than lazy ones.
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Doesn't explain why Slakoth and Slaking learn it (as well as the Chimchar line but they're more disobedient to me than anything). Does the Pokédex ever highlight the line (except for obviously Vigoroth)'s stupidity?
 
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What makes Spinda 'lazy' exactly, besides the extremely tenuous throughline from perpetual dizziness->alcoholism->sloth?

I feel like it's always portrayed as pretty active despite its affliction and it doesn't get other (non-universal) lazy-coded moves like Yawn. If anything, its level-up movepool seems more energetic/motivated than the average mon, with moves like Sucker Punch, Uproar, Psych Up, and Thrash.
 
Cobalt Empoleon said:
What makes Spinda 'lazy' exactly, besides the extremely tenuous throughline from perpetual dizziness->alcoholism->sloth?
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Yeah that throughline does seem tenuous to an extent, though it's mostly because the "alcoholism->sloth" part of that throughline is something I've placed a lot of my doubt and skepticism on the validity of that statement and believe it's not 100% true. Who says active drunks cannot exist?
 
Mr Rime also gets Slack Off for some reason, and that's not a Pokemon which comes off as lazy either; its dancing is described as highly skilled and graceful, and tap is a pretty energetic form of dance. I guess Slack Off could be taken as a reference to dancers taking a quick time-out between rehearsals - five minutes for a water break and that sort of thing.
 
My thing looking at Slack Off's user pool is that most of them look to be either inherently slow/sedentary creatures (Hippos and Crocodiles, plus Slowpoke mostly sitting there with its tail in the water to fish) or creatures that are very VERY energetic and thus a moment where they sit still is a luxury rather than routine.
  • Mr. Rime dances constantly in its idle animation
  • Infernape is based on the Monkey King and when is Goku, another derivative of that tale, NOT training or fighting?
  • Vigoroth's dex entries mention it has so much energy it physically cannot sit still without stressing out. Like it has to burn abnormal amounts of energy to be able to relax
Vigoroth is the big oddity to answer for as of BDSP, because outside those games, it actually cannot learn Slack off in its own level up pool, only by carrying it over from Slakoth's evolution.

I always took this to be the reason for Snorlax's infamous inability to learn the move: Snorlax isn't lazy in that it can't be bothered to do anything like Slaking, it's just that its routine is gluttony and then sleeping to conserve energy/digest that food (some dex entries like Moon even mention that Snorlax eats in its sleep) since its fat is a defense mechanism (like Weddell Seals being Apex Predators because they're too fat to viably prey on). Slaking by comparison is so lazy it literally will not move unless there's nothing it can reach from where it lies down. It's like the difference between a person who's just lethargic and a person who's a professional eater: the habit is associated with laziness but is at a level that takes effort and exertion to maintain.

(PS Snorlax still should have a normal Recovery move even if not Slack Off. Not like Recover has 100% consistency with its flavor and learners)
 
pika pal said:
My thing looking at Slack Off's user pool is that most of them look to be either inherently slow/sedentary creatures (Hippos and Crocodiles, plus Slowpoke mostly sitting there with its tail in the water to fish) or creatures that are very VERY energetic and thus a moment where they sit still is a luxury rather than routine.
  • Mr. Rime dances constantly in its idle animation
  • Infernape is based on the Monkey King and when is Goku, another derivative of that tale, NOT training or fighting?
  • Vigoroth's dex entries mention it has so much energy it physically cannot sit still without stressing out. Like it has to burn abnormal amounts of energy to be able to relax
Vigoroth is the big oddity to answer for as of BDSP, because outside those games, it actually cannot learn Slack off in its own level up pool, only by carrying it over from Slakoth's evolution.

I always took this to be the reason for Snorlax's infamous inability to learn the move: Snorlax isn't lazy in that it can't be bothered to do anything like Slaking, it's just that its routine is gluttony and then sleeping to conserve energy/digest that food (some dex entries like Moon even mention that Snorlax eats in its sleep) since its fat is a defense mechanism (like Weddell Seals being Apex Predators because they're too fat to viably prey on). Slaking by comparison is so lazy it literally will not move unless there's nothing it can reach from where it lies down. It's like the difference between a person who's just lethargic and a person who's a professional eater: the habit is associated with laziness but is at a level that takes effort and exertion to maintain.

(PS Snorlax still should have a normal Recovery move even if not Slack Off. Not like Recover has 100% consistency with its flavor and learners)
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Great post, although this doesn't really address why alcoholics as Pokémon would always need learn Slack Off even if they don't meet one of the two criteria to have Slack Off as discussed in the top half of this post.
 
leafsaber47 said:
Great post, although this doesn't really address why alcoholics as Pokémon would always need learn Slack Off even if they don't meet one of the two criteria to have Slack Off as discussed in the top half of this post.
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I didn't address this because Spinda's never been a hot topic for lacking the move compared to Snorlax, and because I don't subscribe to that line of logic first and foremost because "Dizzy -> Alcoholic" is a massive stretch when creatures can be disoriented or dizzy for any number of reasons besides ingesting a substance like Booze.

Not to mention even if I entertain that, "Alcoholic -> Sloth" is another massive leap to get Slack Off because not every drunk person is lazy or slothful. One of the most common stereotypical depictions of drunk people is that they're bouncing off the walls and doing stupid things that endanger themselves or someone else. The Hungover state is closer but in that case they're moreso recuperating than being lazy (Slack Off for non-sedentary species strikes me as "I could do something and have the energy, but choose not to")
 
pika pal said:
Not to mention even if I entertain that, "Alcoholic -> Sloth" is another massive leap to get Slack Off because not every drunk person is lazy or slothful. One of the most common stereotypical depictions of drunk people is that they're bouncing off the walls and doing stupid things that endanger themselves or someone else. The Hungover state is closer but in that case they're moreso recuperating than being lazy (Slack Off for non-sedentary species strikes me as "I could do something and have the energy, but choose not to")
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I actually agree with you on that.
 
It's not that much of a massive leap, regardless of if Spinda specifically should get it. "layabout drunkard" is just as relevant a stereotype to pull on. Nothing says you have to take a given concept in its totality, it just depends on where you want to draw inspiration.

Incidentally Diggersby should probably get Slack Off. It's entire thing is the construction worker that just lazes around once work is done archetype. Even has the classic portly figure, hamaki and five o clock shadow.

Would even be cute to give it at a higher level to contrast with learning Laser Focus early in the learnset. Did all the hardwork in the morning, time to slack off in front of the TV
 
Night Shade's come up a few times here & elsewhere because it's kind of a weird move with a weird name and weird distribution and weird animations. It's all very vague, but a kind of consistent throughline you can find when its not just weird eye beams is the name is "Night Head" and sometimes the animation is appearing to be much larger and spookier that would be focused around the face and it was the signature move in gen 1 to the 3 ghosts who themselves were 90% giant floating ghost heads. Then got put on Pokemon that had prominent faces on them.

So.

Why didn't Misdreavus get it until Gen 9's TM? It's literally a spooky ghost head that appears at night. Probably should have had it from its inauguration
Least it gets it now?
 
Got confused for a moment looking at the tutor list for Night Shade in Gen III before realising it's that Mew-only move tutor. Bulbapedia should really list that separately, it makes no sense to have a full list of species who all don't get it in XD as if it's available to everyone.

The early anime often had Ghosts do the "my head is 200x bigger than before" jump-scare trick, so Night Head matches that - Night Shade is a more generic term, but works well enough. How the move actually works is a bit ambiguously described: the Stadium games call it "highly accurate" which is misleading, it doesn't work like Swift. "Highly focused" or "highly precise" might sum it up a little better (interestingly Sonicboom and Dragon Rage aren't described the same way)

Then later games just go for "the user makes the foe see a mirage" which... basically an illusion, then. Well that's really vague still but basically accurate to "I'm using my mental powers to make my head appear larger and frighten you". So really any Psychic-type should get it if that's the case. Nearly all Ghosts do, Ariados and Darkrai learn it (the former makes sense thanks to its markings and nighttime appearances, the latter because causing phantasms and nightmares is its whole thing), as do Natu/Xatu and Blacephalon (well, the latter of those has a very big head) but there's a couple of less-obvious choices. Murkrow learns it for... some reason, and so does Deoxys because... um. And Kadabra and Alakazam only get it as a level-up move in LGPE... slimmer pickings in that game, I guess.

And funnily enough in Gen II Misdreavus gets SO many incredibly rare or outright unique moves - Pain Split, Psywave, Mean Look, Perish Song, Spite, Destiny Bond... I guess Night Shade was just too ordinary for it.
 
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