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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

CPU said:
If nothing else, bugs buzzing generally does pretty good psychological damage to people who hear them. Bees? Mosquitos (or flies)? Cicadas? All are, at the very least, annoying, or possibly indicative of a sting or other sort of threat. :mehowth:

That's a fair point of a lack of good special Bug moves going into Gen 4, though physical was honestly lacking more if you took Megahorn out of the equation (and it didn't really get much Bug rep aside from Heracross). Special at least had Silver Wind and Signal Beam; though weaker, they were stronger than the other physical Bug moves.
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Physical bugs certainly weren’t doing well either — Gen 4 in general set about the task of “filling in holes” in type movesets; giving them good solid moves most of the type could learn when previously there were shaky options at best, and also done this in light of the new special split. Bug Buzz, X-scissor, Energy Ball, Seed Bomb, Iron Head, Flash Cannon, Poison Jab, Air Slash, Dragon Pulse, Psycho Cut... it was practically Gen 4’s big thing when it came to introduced moves. Most every type now had a leg to stand on with reliable, accurate, powerful moves; both special and physical, with most having very good distribution among their type and most especially those who needed it. Except Flareon.



It might just have been the worst thing to happen to types in my opinion but that’s an opinion for another day.
 
Kurona said:
Physical bugs certainly weren’t doing well either — Gen 4 in general set about the task of “filling in holes” in type movesets; giving them good solid moves most of the type could learn when previously there were shaky options at best, and also done this in light of the new special split. Bug Buzz, X-scissor, Energy Ball, Seed Bomb, Iron Head, Flash Cannon, Poison Jab, Air Slash, Dragon Pulse, Psycho Cut... it was practically Gen 4’s big thing when it came to introduced moves. Most every type now had a leg to stand on with reliable, accurate, powerful moves; both special and physical, with most having very good distribution among their type and most especially those who needed it. Except Flareon.



It might just have been the worst thing to happen to types in my opinion but that’s an opinion for another day.
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Oh, absolutely; Gen 4 introduced more moves than any other Gen aside from 1 (for obvious reasons, and Gen 1 still has 4 beat by about a factor of 1.5), and as a result of its hole-filling philosophy probably has the most moves with long-standing impact on high-level gameplay.

(Extremely side note but I think it's harder to list all the moves than it is to list all the Pokémon, because there are a LOT of obscure moves that have low distribution. It also starts to show how many signature moves Game Freak started to introduce around Gen 6 or so. It's fun to do on occasion, though)

Now I gotta ask; are you saying the physical/special split was the worst thing for types, or the wide introduction of strong moves for basically every type?
 
CPU said:
I don't have a good answer for Nincada/Shedinja, especially since Ninjask gets it. A pengun's flippers are fairly adapted wings, but if the Piplup line gets it then there's really no excuse for Eiscue. I wouldn't be surprised if people forget that Heracross has wings. Not sure with Spritzee, if stuff like Celebi gets it; maybe they're taking into account its evolution? Of all of these Drampa is easily the most baffling, since it seems rather analogous to Dunsparce in learning Roost, Glare, and being a fairly fanciful Normal Pokémon that nonetheless has wings. It's not like they're trying to restrict Drampa's moves, either.
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Piplup is not yet in the game, but Delibird is (though Delibird is also part Flying). Empoleon does learn Steel Wing, though.
 
After DrPumpkinz mentioned "crippling windpipes" at the annoyances thread, I got reminded of the weird distribution of Throat Chop in the first place.

So for reference, the way the move appears to be depicted is a sort of stab or thrust into a throat, (hence the Japanese name translation of "Hell Thrust") so there should be some sort of fist or pointy thing that is easily accessible or a fist that can really punch.

so uhh...
:meowth: :meowth-alola: :persian: :persian-alola: :farfetchd: :farfetchd-galar: :typhlosion: :houndoom: (perhaps the tail?) :raikou: :sceptile: :mightyena: :vibrava: :flygon: :deoxys: :luxray: :purugly: :carnivine: :darkrai: :liepard: :simisage: :simisear: :simipour: :gigalith: :audino: :krookodile: (the tail perhaps in this case?) :galvantula: :eelektrik: :eelektross: :heatmor: :hydreigon: :pheromosa: :zarude:

What do these pokemon use to stab their opponent's throat?
 
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CoolMan6001 said:
After DrPumpkinz mentioned "crippling windpipes" at the annoyances thread, I got reminded of the weird distribution of Throat Chop in the first place.

So for reference, the way the move appears to be depicted is a sort of stab or thrust into a throat, (hence the Japanese name translation of "Hell Thrust") so there should be some sort of fist or pointy thing that is easily accessible or a fist that can really punch.

so uhh...
:meowth: :meowth-alola: :persian: :persian-alola: :farfetchd: :farfetchd-galar: :typhlosion: :houndoom: (perhaps the tail?) :raikou: :sceptile: :mightyena: :vibrava: :flygon: :deoxys: :luxray: :purugly: :carnivine: :darkrai: :liepard: :simisage: :simisear: :simipour: :gigalith: :audino: :krookodile: (the tail perhaps in this case?) :galvantula: :eelektrik: :eelektross: :heatmor: :hydreigon: :pheromosa: :zarude:

What do these pokemon use to stab their opponent's throat?
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Most of them can use their claws or fist stab it. For the mons that lack either there is some explanation. Gigalith can use some of the pointier stones on its body, Hydregion can use its mouth arms as makeshift claws, Farfetch'd can use its stick, etc. etc.
 
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One thing I've always thought was weird was the distribution of Moonblast as an attack. Despite being similar to thunderbolt, surf, energy ball, and flamethrower in being 90ish power, 100% acc moves, it doesn't have near ubiquitous distribution among it's type like those moves do. It's distribution seems to be more along the lines of night associated pokemon, like noctowl, gourgeist, lunala, and shiinotic. But then there are some pokemon associated with night that don't get it, like murkrow, drowzee, and ariados. Then theres some fairy pokemon with no basis in night that get it like sylveon and florges - but apparently this doesn't apply to mons like mime and togekiss. And then there are some really random mons that get it like zamazenta, muk, and the odish family.
 
spookysocialist said:
One thing I've always thought was weird was the distribution of Moonblast as an attack. Despite being similar to thunderbolt, surf, energy ball, and flamethrower in being 90ish power, 100% acc moves, it doesn't have near ubiquitous distribution among it's type like those moves do. It's distribution seems to be more along the lines of night associated pokemon, like noctowl, gourgeist, lunala, and shiinotic. But then there are some pokemon associated with night that don't get it, like murkrow, drowzee, and ariados. Then theres some fairy pokemon with no basis in night that get it like sylveon and florges - but apparently this doesn't apply to mons like mime and togekiss. And then there are some really random mons that get it like zamazenta, muk, and the odish family.
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Oddish and Muk have Pokedex entries that mention the moon. Oddish's entry mentions how it moves when its exposed to the moonlight, while Grimer's mentions it coming to life because of x-rays from the moon.
 
Spore. No its not the availability of the move that bothers me. Its the effect of it, which puts the opponent to sleep. Here is the actual definition: a minute, typically one-celled, reproductive unit capable of giving rise to a new individual without sexual fusion, characteristic of lower plants, fungi, and protozoans.

So why does it put the target to sleep? I understand that there's not a really a Pokemon equivalent, but the closest thing would be probably be a Heal Pulse counterpart since creating new organisms is kind of like healing... Ok, maybe not, maybe the equivalent would be turning the target Pokemon into the user temporarily... Hey, now that I think about it, that's actually a pretty cool idea. We have yet to have a move like that. Spore could've have been a pretty cool opportunity for that.
 
DreamPrince said:
Spore. No its not the availability of the move that bothers me. Its the effect of it, which puts the opponent to sleep. Here is the actual definition: a minute, typically one-celled, reproductive unit capable of giving rise to a new individual without sexual fusion, characteristic of lower plants, fungi, and protozoans.

So why does it put the target to sleep? I understand that there's not a really a Pokemon equivalent, but the closest thing would be probably be a Heal Pulse counterpart since creating new organisms is kind of like healing... Ok, maybe not, maybe the equivalent would be turning the target Pokemon into the user temporarily... Hey, now that I think about it, that's actually a pretty cool idea. We have yet to have a move like that. Spore could've have been a pretty cool opportunity for that.
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I think some spores are used in sleep-inducing medication? I agree that it’s a weird connection, but living plants in the real world have pretty limited options for inducing actual sleep, so I understand why they’d stretch it like this.

A move that acts like a reverse Transform would be an interesting idea though!
 
DreamPrince said:
Spore. No its not the availability of the move that bothers me. Its the effect of it, which puts the opponent to sleep. Here is the actual definition: a minute, typically one-celled, reproductive unit capable of giving rise to a new individual without sexual fusion, characteristic of lower plants, fungi, and protozoans.

So why does it put the target to sleep?
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Each of the spores is a tiny Pokémon that sings softly to the opponent as they engulf them, and Pokémon song is known to put things to sleep.
 
Machoke said:
Anyone have any idea why Mightyena and Poochyena were never able to learn pursuit? I always thought it odd considering they're kinda like a dog hyena mix so it seems natural they'd be able to chase after something especially since they're dark type.
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It’s kind of a reach but I don’t think there are any pack hunters who learn Pursuit? No other dog Pokémon learn it, for instance.
 
DreamPrince said:
Spore. No its not the availability of the move that bothers me. Its the effect of it, which puts the opponent to sleep. Here is the actual definition: a minute, typically one-celled, reproductive unit capable of giving rise to a new individual without sexual fusion, characteristic of lower plants, fungi, and protozoans.

So why does it put the target to sleep? I understand that there's not a really a Pokemon equivalent, but the closest thing would be probably be a Heal Pulse counterpart since creating new organisms is kind of like healing... Ok, maybe not, maybe the equivalent would be turning the target Pokemon into the user temporarily... Hey, now that I think about it, that's actually a pretty cool idea. We have yet to have a move like that. Spore could've have been a pretty cool opportunity for that.
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Actually from that definition Spore sounds like it would be what Leech Seed does, cause a foreign organism to grow on the target and zapping its energy (or causing some other kind of discomfort). Then again, maybe that is the idea behind spore, the mushroom is absorbing the Pokemon's energy making them sleepy. This is pretty much explained in Morelull's and Shiinotic's dex entry and showed in its episode in the anime

I tried looking to see if there's anything relating spores to sleep, and aside from finding stories of the opposite (cause when you're affected by toxic spores your body kind of wants you to stay awake) I couldn't find anything. So instead I tried looking if there's any connection of sleep to mushrooms and found a few species can help with sleep. There's even a brand that makes drinks out of it (ironically it's coffee). Some of these mushrooms are Reishi, Lion's Mane, Chaga, Cordyceps, Enokitake & Shiitake (at least one of them sounds familiar, well two but the reason why most people know Cordyceps would probably have people not wanting to digest it, just in case).

Going through all the mushrooms the mushroom Pokemon are based on, Paras family is the Tochukaso/Caterpillar Fungus that has been used in Chinese herbal medicine (which it of course has many kinds of purposes though an actual scientific study reveals the mushroom contains trace amounts of arsenic and heavy metals so...). Shroomish family are either Puffballs or Geastrales and its iffy on their edibility (though no mention of any health benefits). Foongus family are Amanita muscaria (and possibly Agaricus) which are famously known for being poisonous and hallucinogenic (being picking edible puffballs sometimes confuse them with Amanita muscaria). Finally Morelull family are Mycena (while their English names refer to other mushrooms there's no evidence their based on them) which aren't consider much useful as they're too small.

Machoke said:
Anyone have any idea why Mightyena and Poochyena were never able to learn pursuit? I always thought it odd considering they're kinda like a dog hyena mix so it seems natural they'd be able to chase after something especially since they're dark type.
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Does seem like a very odd exclusion for them and most other canine Pokemon.
 
While reminiscing about Dustox in the other thread, i went to oduble check its movepool and...Its a moth. It's A TOXIC moth. It's a moth whose name invokes the idea of spreading its scales. Right?

It took until ORAS for Dustox to get Poison Powder. Beautifuly, meanwhile, has had Stun Spore since gen 3.
 
R_N said:
While reminiscing about Dustox in the other thread, i went to oduble check its movepool and...Its a moth. It's A TOXIC moth. It's a moth whose name invokes the idea of spreading its scales. Right?

It took until ORAS for Dustox to get Poison Powder. Beautifuly, meanwhile, has had Stun Spore since gen 3.
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Another Quirk about Dustox is that It's Hidden Ability, Compound eyes is pretty useless. Let's look at all of the moves Dustox can get that don't have 100 accuracy:

-Air Cutter
-Electroweb
-Hyper Beam
-Poison Powder
-String Shot
-Swagger
-Toxic (Doesn't matter since Gen VI made Toxic have perfect accuracy when Poison types use it)

None of these are really worth picking Dustox's Hidden Ability over its normal one(Shield Dust)

Not that this matters much anyways since Dustox is second only to Ledian at being the most useless early game bug.
 
Nokocchi said:
Another Quirk about Dustox is that It's Hidden Ability, Compound eyes is pretty useless. Let's look at all of the moves Dustox can get that don't have 100 accuracy:

-Air Cutter
-Electroweb
-Hyper Beam
-Poison Powder
-String Shot
-Swagger
-Toxic (Doesn't matter since Gen VI made Toxic have perfect accuracy when Poison types use it)

None of these are really worth picking Dustox's Hidden Ability over its normal one(Shield Dust)

Not that this matters much anyways since Dustox is second only to Ledian at being the most useless early game bug.
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Wait, does it not get Sleep Powder? Vivillon gets the Sleep Powder + Compound Eyes combo with Hurricane to boot, surely--

Oh.
Screenshot_20200915-203316_Chrome.jpg

Oh no...
 
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