Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

jordanthejq12

jordanthejq12

Nah, Bite's too valuable
Plague von Karma said:
Remember when Waterfall was Seaking's signature move with no effect? In Stadium, it even gave Seaking its own special animation when using it.

Now everyone and their mother has it and Seaking languishes in the depths of the lower tiers for being a slow piece of shit.

Poor guy.
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This has less to do with the move itself and more with general game design; specifically, the question of whether or not it was a good idea/desirable to make Waterfall an HM in the first place.
 
ChoiceScarfed

ChoiceScarfed

CoolMan6001 said:
Oh man imagine if this actually got it. All Rillaboom would need to do is find an opportunity and then:

+6 252+ Atk Rillaboom Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 416-490 (118.1 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 339-399 (111.5 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Corviknight: 420-495 (105 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor: 447-526 (130.3 - 153.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+6 252+ Atk Rillaboom Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 256-302 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hey something actually lives this)

this would end up as a GG. This is probably not the reason it doesn't have it, but I hope this never gets this move.
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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... So they decided to give Galarian Darmanitan- A pokemon with base 140 attack GORRILLA TACTICS
 
Eievui-Nymphia

Eievui-Nymphia

This is the list of families that learn Knock Off in Gen VIII (incl. expected families):
-Machamp, Tentacryel, PJ Fardetch'd, G Farfetch'd, Sirfetch'd, Kingler, Lickitung, Lickilicky, Tangela, Tangrowth, Omastar*, Kabutops*, Shuckle, Ludicolo, Pelipper, Gardevoir, Gallade, Sableye, Crawdaunt, Armaldo*, Drapion, Regigigas*, Swoobat, Crustle, Archeops*, Zoroark, Cinccino, Escavalier, Ferroseed, Ferrothorn, Mienshao, Mandibuzz, Decidueye, Salazzle, Passimian, Rillaboom, Thievul, Centiskorch

Notable Pokemon w/o Knock Off (around 80%, and IIRC all STAB/Relevant Pkmn): Venusaur, Pikachu, J Raichu, A Raichu, J Sandslash, A Sandslash, Clefable, J Persian, K Persian, A Exeggutor, Hitmonlee, Scyther, Scizor, Pinsir, Leafeon, Mew, Azumarill, Heracross, Sneasel, Weavile, Mamoswine, Blaziken*, Absol, Toxicroak, Uxie*, Mesprit*, Azelf*, Liepard, Gurdurr, Conkeldurr, Throh, Sawk, Krookodile, Scrafty, Cofagrigus, Bisharp, Tornadus*, Thundurus*, Landorus*, Diggersby, Pangoro, Malamar, Yveltal*, Incineroar, Mareanie, Toxapex, Lurantis, Tsareena, Passimian, Golisopod, Tapu Fini*, Solgaleo, Nihilego*, Kartana*, Guzzlord*, Necrozma, Marshadow, Zeraora.

*Prediction
 
Hyper Cutter

Hyper Cutter

green_typhlosion said:
  • Jump Kick & Rolling Kick - probably seen as redundant given the existence of several other kicking moves
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In particular, there was no real reason for Jump Kick to exist when High Jump Kick also exists and is learned by almost all the same Pokemon. It sucks for Dodrio, Stantler, and Sawsbuck (the only ones who just learn Jump Kick), I guess, but they're all Dexited anyway so maybe they'll get access to High Jump Kick in the future.
 
R_N

R_N

is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I missed that one in the conversation earlier... Jump Kick's reasoning being "redundant" is...odd? A version of a move, then a stronger version of that move makes sense and is done several times throughout the series. It'd probably be most similar to getting rid of Take Down because Double Edge exists

Buneary is probably the best usecase of this. You get Jump Kick in the 20s and then Lopunny gets Hi Jump Kick, the direct upgrade, in the mid50/60s. Mienfoo/shao do similarly in the 30s/50s.

if there's a criticism to levvy at it it's probably that not every pokemon actualy bothered with this progression (some just got Hi Jump Kick to begin with, at reasonable levels even)
 
QuentinQuonce

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
R_N said:
I missed that one in the conversation earlier... Jump Kick's reasoning being "redundant" is...odd? A version of a move, then a stronger version of that move makes sense and is done several times throughout the series. It'd probably be most similar to getting rid of Take Down because Double Edge exists

Buneary is probably the best usecase of this. You get Jump Kick in the 20s and then Lopunny gets Hi Jump Kick, the direct upgrade, in the mid50/60s. Mienfoo/shao do similarly in the 30s/50s.

if there's a criticism to levvy at it it's probably that not every pokemon actualy bothered with this progression (some just got Hi Jump Kick to begin with, at reasonable levels even)
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What I was getting at is that there are enough weaker Fighting moves like Brick Break, Low Sweep, and Power-up Punch that most Pokemon which lost Jump Kick can probably cope. Obviously there are exceptions (like the aforementioned cases of Pokemon like Sawsbuck which only get JK and nothing else) but them's the breaks.
 
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Pikachu315111

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
green_typhlosion said:
What I was getting at is that there are enough weaker Fighting moves like Brick Break, Low Sweep, and Power-up Punch that most Pokemon which lost Jump Kick can probably cope. Obviously there are exceptions (like the aforementioned cases of Pokemon like Sawsbuck which only get JK and nothing else) but them's the breaks.
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Think the most obvious replacement for Pokemon who got Jump Kick would be Double Kick.
 
R_N

R_N

is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Pikachu315111 said:
Think the most obvious replacement for Pokemon who got Jump Kick would be Double Kick.
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Honestly just give them brick break at that point. the loss from 100 to 75 is easier to swallow than 100 to effective-60 and if you got strong legs you can probably break bricks imo.







As an aside I was going to sugest Body press but that's a very different body type and then I learned Orbeetle learns it. Definitely not the Pokemon I expected to learn it, gotta say.
 
Imperial Magala

Imperial Magala

Behemoth Bash not running off of Zamazenta's Defense salts the wound. While on non-attack stat moves, one theory that gave me hope was that Meteor Beam would run off of the user's Defense, but be a Special Attack, because surely showing Aggron using Meteor Beam during the trailer for a split-second to tease the move tutors would mean that it's a good move for Aggron to learn, right?
 
Pikachu315111

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Imperial Magala said:
Behemoth Bash not running off of Zamazenta's Defense salts the wound. While on non-attack stat moves, one theory that gave me hope was that Meteor Beam would run off of the user's Defense, but be a Special Attack, because surely showing Aggron using Meteor Beam during the trailer for a split-second to tease the move tutors would mean that it's a good move for Aggron to learn, right?
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TBH the only Rock-types that were given & can make use of Meteor Beam is Lunatone and Coalossal...

Wait, did they show Aggron using Meteor Beam? Because Aggron can't learn Meteor Beam (sure it wasn't Coalossal?).
 
Imperial Magala

Imperial Magala

At the 2:49 mark.
It's identical to Meteor Beam, shown at 8:40.

After FE:3H, moves that run off of non-attack stats became cool to me. There were physical combat arts that ran off of Defense, Speed, and Charm and magical combat arts that are used with physical weapons that ran off of Dexterity and Resistance. Imagine if moves like that were more common in Pokemon, like Blissey and Gallade having a Speical Attack that runs off their Special Defense, or Physical version of Psyshock that hits Special Defense.
 
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