Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

Incidentally it's very funny that the roaming legends are not on here so even if Fast Balls worked properly they still wouldn't work better on them despite al the old advice of the time going "use fast balls, since they flee!"
I'll be honest, I didn't even notice that. That's terrible. Maybe if the list of Pokémon Fast Balls worked on was properly fleshed out they would have been added?

Putting aside issues like Pokémon distribution and level curve, for as many QoL aspects GSC added to the series and as influential as they are, they're kinda held together by toothpicks and tape at points. I guess that's the natural result of them using nearly the entire space available in the cartridge.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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I'll be honest, I didn't even notice that. That's terrible. Maybe if the list of Pokémon Fast Balls worked on was properly fleshed out they would have been added?
Bulbapedia goes more into detail what the Fast Ball was supposed to do and how it glitched (aka why is it only Magnemite, Tangela, & Grimer). Short answer is there is actually 3 lists of Pokemon who can flee (based on the % chance of them doing so) and for some reason, instead of checking all of them, it only checks for the first three listed on the 10% chance list. So it sounds like a coding error that went like this:

Supposed to be: Check the 3 Flee List when Fast Ball is used.
What Likely Happened: Check the Flee List for 3 when the Fast Ball is used.

Though honestly the changed effect, while better, I think could be expanded upon (though this honestly goes for a lot of the special Poke Balls). It now is 4x on Pokemon with a base Speed of 100. Alright, but why no in-between? How about Below base 60 is 1x, 60-70 is 2x, 71-90 is 3x, 91-120 is 4x, and 121 & above is 5x?
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Why does GSC Cyndaquil have Leer as a move? His eyes are closed!
Cyndaquil learns Leer at Level 1 in all gens that it's in.

Also if you're going to ask that you need to ask the same thing for Pangoro & Gumshoos.

Now all of these Pokemon have an evolution stage which showed their eyes, so we know they have them. So when they use Leer they just open their eyes a bit... revealing the deep black abyss which no mortal mind can comprehend to the poor fool that was unfortunate to be their opponent, driving them insane but their mind refused to break, so instead sacrifices some of their innate defenses.
 
Okay so Remoraid's Pokedex entries mention how accurate it is, then Octillery's signature move Octazooka does not have 100% accuracy. I know they aren't the same species but still.

Octillery's Pokedex entries say "It traps foes with the suction cups on its tentacles, then smashes them with its rock-hard head."

And yet, Octillery can't learn Head Smash. Yes the move was conceived in Gen 4 but still. And Octillery is known for have a diverse movepool for a Water type - it even learns Rock Blast, Psybeam and Flamethrower.
 
Okay so Remoraid's Pokedex entries mention how accurate it is, then Octillery's signature move Octazooka does not have 100% accuracy. I know they aren't the same species but still.

Octillery's Pokedex entries say "It traps foes with the suction cups on its tentacles, then smashes them with its rock-hard head."

And yet, Octillery can't learn Head Smash. Yes the move was conceived in Gen 4 but still. And Octillery is known for have a diverse movepool for a Water type - it even learns Rock Blast, Psybeam and Flamethrower.
Remoraid also gets Hustle, which was its only ability in gen 3. Now, that doesn't affect special moves, but it's still funny.

I think Octillery's issue is in the dex entries. It has pretty generic "this is an octopus" entries, despite its name, movepool, and pre-evolution all pointing to it being a cannon.
 

The Mind Electric

Calming if you look at it right.
Okay so Remoraid's Pokedex entries mention how accurate it is, then Octillery's signature move Octazooka does not have 100% accuracy. I know they aren't the same species but still.
If Remoraid is a gun and Octillery's signature move is a bazooka, then I get the accuracy difference. I imagine that it's a little harder to precisely aim a bazooka than a gun.
 
If Remoraid is a gun and Octillery's signature move is a bazooka, then I get the accuracy difference. I imagine that it's a little harder to precisely aim a bazooka than a gun.
Octillery's signature move is a cannon. The Japanese name of the move is Okutank (Octillery) Cannon.

That being said... why does Grapploct learn the move? It's an octopus like Octillery, yes, but it has no "turret" like the Remoraid or Horsea lines do.

(There's also Sableye, but that's an event move)
 

The Mind Electric

Calming if you look at it right.
Octillery's signature move is a cannon. The Japanese name of the move is Okutank (Octillery) Cannon.
I think my point still stands. I'm no firearms or cannon expert, but it seems like a cannon is a little harder to aim with any kind of precision than a small gun.

Then again, it's not like you need to be very precise to hit things with a cannon. Hm.
 

The Mind Electric

Calming if you look at it right.
View attachment 358035
I know they've remedied this but I don't know why it took them four generations to give this guy Nasty Plot...
"The user stimulates its brain by thinking bad thoughts. It sharply raises the user's Sp. Atk."
-Nasty Plot's description

The answer is obviously that Gengar, being a ghost, has no brain to stimulate.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
View attachment 358035
I know they've remedied this but I don't know why it took them four generations to give this guy Nasty Plot...
Balance issues aside Nasty Plot seems intended for Pokemon which actually strategise how they fight. Gengar isn't really characterised as doing that. It plays with its opponents and mocks them, but it doesn't really do finesse in the same way the likes of Ninetales, Hypno, and Persian do. They work out their opponent's weak spots and strike without mercy. Gengar just goes all out.
 

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
Why does Toxicroak not learn Close Combat? They gave it to every other Fighting-type that didn't before in Generation 8, like Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Blaziken, and Pheromosa, as well as a lot of non-Fighting types (some of which previously had no decent Fighting-move like Sharpedo). As far as I can tell, of fully evolved Fighting-types only Throh doesn't get it besides Toxicroak, and being pretty much the only "defensive" Fighting-type I can understand that.
 
Why does Toxicroak not learn Close Combat? They gave it to every other Fighting-type that didn't before in Generation 8, like Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Blaziken, and Pheromosa, as well as a lot of non-Fighting types (some of which previously had no decent Fighting-move like Sharpedo). As far as I can tell, of fully evolved Fighting-types only Throh doesn't get it besides Toxicroak, and being pretty much the only "defensive" Fighting-type I can understand that.
Toxicroak has never learned superpower either so GF just seems to not want to give it the strongest fighting moves. Maybe they just want it to use it's poison moves because of it's unique typing and don't want it's fighting moves to overshadow it's poison attacks?
 

Pikachu315111

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Why does Toxicroak not learn Close Combat? They gave it to every other Fighting-type that didn't before in Generation 8, like Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Blaziken, and Pheromosa, as well as a lot of non-Fighting types (some of which previously had no decent Fighting-move like Sharpedo). As far as I can tell, of fully evolved Fighting-types only Throh doesn't get it besides Toxicroak, and being pretty much the only "defensive" Fighting-type I can understand that.
Toxicroak has never learned superpower either so GF just seems to not want to give it the strongest fighting moves. Maybe they just want it to use it's poison moves because of it's unique typing and don't want it's fighting moves to overshadow it's poison attacks?
I guess GF doesn't consider Toxicroak a "go all out" fighter which Close Combat and Superpower would suggest. Looking at the moves individually, while Toxicroak is a frog, it's not really a "kicker" (only learning Mega Kick, Low Sweep & Low Kick) more preferring to use its hands (ideally the spike on its first which up till a few days ago I thought was elongated sharp finger, but it's just a random spike coming out of its wrist) and Close Combat has the user releasing a torrent of punches & kicks with all your limbs. Going back to Toxicroak preferring to use its spike, that maybe why it doesn't get Superpower; fine, it'll throw a punch or karate chop, but it's not going to charge into the opponent at full force leaving itself open, it wants to inject Poison and stay back doing potshots while the poison whittles the opponent's HP down.
 

QuentinQuonce

formerly green_typhlosion
Why does Toxicroak not learn Close Combat? They gave it to every other Fighting-type that didn't before in Generation 8, like Conkeldurr, Mienshao, Blaziken, and Pheromosa, as well as a lot of non-Fighting types (some of which previously had no decent Fighting-move like Sharpedo). As far as I can tell, of fully evolved Fighting-types only Throh doesn't get it besides Toxicroak, and being pretty much the only "defensive" Fighting-type I can understand that.
Similar to the Gengar thing, it's not its style. Toxicroak doesn't fight all-out. It's a sneaky attacker which isn't that physically strong and relies on moves like Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave, Feint, and Drain Punch. It's a totally different fighting style from, say, Machamp.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Pikachu315111 explains it much better.
 
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Remoraid also gets Hustle, which was its only ability in gen 3. Now, that doesn't affect special moves, but it's still funny.

I think Octillery's issue is in the dex entries. It has pretty generic "this is an octopus" entries, despite its name, movepool, and pre-evolution all pointing to it being a cannon.
The thing is, the "rock-hard head" entry doesn't even make sense if the Dex is giving it generic octopus entries. Octopuses (quite famously, in fact) don't have any bones.
 

TailGlowVM

Now 100% more demonic
I noticed something strange just now: Iron Head was introduced in Generation 4, but Skarmory was unable to be taught it until Generation 5. This looks like a pretty big oversight considering:

:dp/skarmory: :bw/skarmory:

That head definitely looks like the kind of "steel-hard head" that the user slams into the target when using the move, doesn't it? I assume this must just be an oversight when they were originally deciding the learnset for the move. Are there any other examples like that of Pokemon that seem to have been overlooked for receiving a move when it was originally created and were given it later on? (Obviously there are the various signature moves in the last three generations that have been retrofitted to more past Pokemon after their original distribution, like First Impression and Darkest Lariat, but that seems to have been the intention from the start when designing those, to distribute them further later on.)
 
:ss/(Clefable): :ss/(Tornadus-Therian):

One of these learns Dual Wingbeat, and it's Clef. What's even stranger is that this makes sense, since Torn's base forms lacks wings and the two forms share a moveset, but it's still funny to think that Torn-T can't use those wings to slap something.

Also,

:ss/(Dragalge):

Play Rough? Why does it get Play Rough? Dragalge's moveset has always been uniquely diverse which I love about it, but moves like Thunderbolt/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball sorta make sense while Play Rough really doesn't fit it thematically. Most mons with this move are either (A) cute or (B) in dire need of a physical Fairy move, but Dragalge is neither and seahorses/seadragons are weak swimmers with little musculature to speak of, that rely on drifting around in secrecy. Having one beat you up with its bony fins makes no sense.
 

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