Pokémon Unite

[PsychicAcademic]

Everyone has talked about microtransaction.

But, I have heard of MOBA and how disgustingly predatory that is.
Pokémon GO player here, and while there are microtransaction, it was never as bad. People who do that are mostly those who can't be satisfied with little IV differences or shinies and there is a way to get coins freely, so the P2W aspect is severely restricted to people needing to brag and proving SuMn Lusamine was right all along, outside of maybe some optimisation like bag capacity or trainer customisations.

But... We are now talking about different world here....

No,not only that. We are now worrying of where TPC and Game Freak is heading to. We have been believing that Game Freak is just criminally incompetent in handling their games, not criminally greedy. We are now at the window to see if that will truly happen or not here....

I'm going to just sit back and watch.

 

[facu]

Also, League is big, but I wouldn't say it dominates. It has strong competitors in the likes of Dota 2 and Arena of Valor, the latter being arguably bigger than it in China.

I strongly disagree with that. Everyone knows that League was a complete success, taking the throne from DotA. Anyway, the community is the worst I have seen in a game, I wont deny it.

Riot Games is currently also having a presence in the FPS scene with Valorant. Amusingly, Riot is Valve's worst nightmare, copying DotA and having more success than this one, and now having more success than CSGO; many professional CSGO players are giving up the game after 8 long years to start on Valorant's competitive scene.

By the way, CS 1.6 marked a great golden era in gaming and I don't think Riot could handle that.

 

[Ema Skye]

I get the frustration of the microtransactions (since they're annoying and predatory as fuck), but they are a reality of mobile gaming. Even if this was a Nintendo game, it would still be full of micro transactions (see: FE Heroes, Mario Kart Tour, AC Pocket Camp). Any dev looking to make money on the mobile market (read as: all of them) will be using this system to make their product financially viable.

I just wish TPC hadn't sold their (greedy ass) souls to the CCP.

 

[Gravity Monkey]

I strongly disagree with that. Everyone knows that League was a complete success, taking the throne from DotA. Anyway, the community is the worst I have seen in a game, I wont deny it.

Riot Games is currently also having a presence in the FPS scene with Valorant. Amusingly, Riot is Valve's worst nightmare, copying DotA and having more success than this one, and now having more success than CSGO; many professional CSGO players are giving up the game after 8 long years to start on Valorant's competitive scene.

By the way, CS 1.6 marked a great golden era in gaming and I don't think Riot could handle that.

That's very fair, but my point is that Unite is targeting a different demographic: a casual playerbase that currently has little to no contact with MOBAs compared to the really hardcore and dedicated playbase of League. It's a niche that is still empty. (Also yeah f for Valve)

 

[War Incarnate]

How is this even relevant to my point about kids not being able to use credit cards to make in-game purchases? This one focuses on someone stealing their mom's credit card to buy a Nintendo 64, which is basically stealing your parent's credit card to buy a gaming console. And my original message focused on in-app purchases due to stolen credit cards. I don't really think you got the context of my original message.

Anyways, with that out of the way, I want to spark some discussion. What are some other games this "Tencent" company has made and why are people throwing so much hate at it?

Oh yeah, I really don't hope TPC falls into the CCP's trap.

 

[didls]

I get the frustration of the microtransactions (since they're annoying and predatory as fuck), but they are a reality of mobile gaming.

True, but this doesn't excuse them. A few other people have pointed out Shuffle, Rumble, Picross etc... having microtransactions, but to my knowledge, those games weren't promoted as heavily as Unite seems to have been.

I'm definitely not going to get this game, for multiple reasons.

 

[Ema Skye]

Anyways, with that out of the way, I want to spark some discussion. What are some other games this "Tencent" company has made and why are people throwing so much hate at it?

Oh yeah, I really don't hope TPC falls into the CCP's trap.

Speaking specifically for myself, it's not the games Tencent makes that cause my concern. It's the fact that Tencent is so closely connected with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) / Communist Party of China (CPC). As this article suggests, Tencent is not above using video games to fuel the CCP propaganda machine. Additionally, Tencent is literally THE tech sector in China, and has ownership of everything from video games and ride sharing to banking and energy extraction. It doesn't take much research to find out with CCP involvement is problematic, as the party has a long history of human rights violations - see this list and related articles on Wikipedia to get an idea of just how awful the CCP is. Tencent's CEO, 'Pony Ma', is also the leader of China's legislative government branch (legislative branches are responsible for the law making process, which, as you can probably imagine, is radically different in a communist state than what we are used to in western democracies), which should also set off some alarms with how tight the CCP and Tencent are.

This decision comes from the same company that, earlier this month, made a massive donation to the BLM movement. To go from that to working with anti-human rights organizations in the world is a drastic culture shift, and just reinforces that TPCI will do anything that leads them to more money.

Companies that Tencent, has in turn, invested in, include:

• Riot Games - 100% total ownership
• Epic Games - 40% total ownership
• Snapchat - 12%
• Bluehole - 11.5%
• Ubisoft - 5%
• Blizzard - 5%
• Platinum Games - undisclosed
• Discord - some capacity

 

[DreamPrince]

How is this even relevant to my point about kids not being able to use credit cards to make in-game purchases? This one focuses on someone stealing their mom's credit card to buy a Nintendo 64, which is basically stealing your parent's credit card to buy a gaming console. And my original message focused on in-app purchases due to stolen credit cards. I don't really think you got the context of my original message.

Anyways, with that out of the way, I want to spark some discussion. What are some other games this "Tencent" company has made and why are people throwing so much hate at it?

Oh yeah, I really don't hope TPC falls into the CCP's trap.

What I was trying to tell you is that children are capable of using credit cards in general, not just limited to in app purchases.

 

[deluge]

I wasn't really following this announcement so the disappointment and dislike ratio on the youtube video surprised me. I think that's more a function of "hype" that was manufactured rather than the existence of the spinoff itself. Expectations were raised to a level that the product couldn't satisfy.

Spinoffs can excite fans when they complement the essence of the franchise. Pokemon Go is a great example and Snap is another. But as SwSh - Gamefreak's most recent flagship titles - demonstrated, the essence of the franchise doesn't seem particularly dear to Gamefreak anymore. Pokemon is just a golden goose now.

I was saying back when Pokemon SwSh was fully revealed that "I was out" and that GF is out of touch, lost heart, and cares only about coin right now. Nothing that they've done since then has changed my mind and over-hyping a spinoff that's just a Pokemon skin on an unrelated genre is just another demonstration of their tone-deafness.

At the same time as their greed is escalating, Gamefreak seems to be pivoting more heavily towards a less critical demographic: the very young. Of course Pokemon, with its cute characters and accessible gameplay, has always appealed to younger audiences. However, like most franchises associated with Nintendo, it did so while still having enough depth for older players. Recent games have ripped out many features (eg. post-game) which kept older players engaged.

IMO, the veteran fanbase can expect to become more regularly annoyed by the direction of the franchise.

EDIT: I really shouldn't have blamed GF for everything but there are so many companies involved with Pokemon. I'm really talking about the creators in general and as a collective.

 

[Siggu]

At the same time as their greed is escalating, Gamefreak seems to be pivoting more heavily towards a less critical demographic: the very young. Of course Pokemon, with its cute characters and accessible gameplay, has always appealed to younger audiences. However, like most franchises associated with Nintendo, it did so while still having enough depth for older players. Recent games have ripped out many features (eg. post-game) which kept older players engaged.

Actually it's less of not caring about the older audience but rather that they are misjudging us. Game Freak thinks the older audience ONLY cares about online battles, and as a result Sword and Shield (specifically stated to be geared towards older players) has several battling QoL improvements while the non-battling content is stripped barebones.

They do care. They are just bad at caring (why am I not surprised?).

 

[Count Bleck]

So i want to ask a question: if i were trying ro make my game more popular in China, is there any alternatives to Tencent i could have used with a Similar appeal? Cause it sounds like Tencent is a huge monopoly and collaboration was inevitable.

 

[Magnus0]

Can't wait for Pokemon TD, Pokemon racing and Pokemon at the Olympic Games.

 

[TenshouYoku]

Duh.

Y'all gotta get that Anti-China/Tencent bias outta there because it's going nowhere. Microtransactions are basically an inevitability in any form of mobile phone games, even non-Chinese based ones (friggin FGO for instance), and if Tencent handles the microtransactions well - which probably will limit to skins only, instead of having to do gacha rolls for Pokemon, because that's the current trend and they still have to work with TPC which won't let their franchise go *that* shit - then I don't really understand why we can accept MTs in other Pokemon games but somehow Unite can't.

 

[TenshouYoku]

So i want to ask a question: if i were trying ro make my game more popular in China, is there any alternatives to Tencent i could have used with a Similar appeal? Cause it sounds like Tencent is a huge monopoly and collaboration was inevitable.

You probably can but QQ/Tencent has the largest coverage since how huge Tencent is. BiliBili (YouTube/NicoNico equivalent) and even Wechat and the related functions belong to Tencent.

(Alibaba is an another huge corporation……but they made clear they will not touch games with a 10 feet barge pole since the owner "saw how video games ruined a kid's life".)

 

[Zowayix]

Duh.

Y'all gotta get that Anti-China/Tencent bias outta there because it's going nowhere. Microtransactions are basically an inevitability in any form of mobile phone games, even non-Chinese based ones (friggin FGO for instance), and if Tencent handles the microtransactions well - which probably will limit to skins only, instead of having to do gacha rolls for Pokemon, because that's the current trend and they still have to work with TPC which won't let their franchise go *that* shit - then I don't really understand why we can accept MTs in other Pokemon games but somehow Unite can't.

To put this politely, there are a lot of reasons to greatly dislike tencent even completely disregarding microtransactions.

 

[DreamPrince]

You know, reading a bit about on League of Legends gameplay has me realize what a carbon copy Unite is. The way you level up, the arena, so far, its literally just League of Legends but with Pokemon characters. It doesn't seem to have any of Pokemon mechanics other than moves, with the notable absence of type advantages.

Anyway, this video is the most disliked video in Nintendo History currently. I'm wondering if the backlash will be taken seriously. I know Dexit was not taken seriously nor did it have an effect on SwSh's sales, but Pokemon Spin-offs don't sell anywhere as close to the main series games, probably because they don't have the brand as the Core RPGs. Mystery Dungeon DX sold 1 Million copies, a paltry amount compared to SwSh. There's also the fact that it will be competing with LoL and right now, it does not have anything unique to separate from LoL other than the Pokemon brand name. I imagine most Lol would stick to Lol due to being familiar for veterans, while Pokemon fans are really divided on the issue, a divide I will imagine that will persist till the launch date.

Aside from Go, Pokemon Mobile games do not have a good run history.

• Pokémon Duel, 2017-2019
• Magikarp Jump, final update 3 months after launch
• Pokémon Shuffle, updated from launch in 2015 to 2018
• Pokémon Quest, no updates expected
• Pokémon Rumble Rush, shutdown after one year
• Pokémon Masters, required drastic improvements post-launch

 

[earl]

Is it particularly similar to LoL or is it just similar to all mainstream MOBAs? Like is it any more similar to league than say, DOTA 2? I’m not particularly experienced with MOBAs, they’ve always looked dreadfully boring to me so I’m just wondering if it’s a straight league clone or just another generic MOBA

 

[Worldie]

Is it particularly similar to LoL or is it just similar to all mainstream MOBAs? Like is it any more similar to league than say, DOTA 2? I’m not particularly experienced with MOBAs, they’ve always looked dreadfully boring to me so I’m just wondering if it’s a straight league clone or just another generic MOBA

From the gameplay footage, it looks like an almost carbon copy of the now-retired Dominion mode of League.

You know, reading a bit about on League of Legends gameplay has me realize what a carbon copy Unite is. The way you level up, the arena, so far, its literally just League of Legends but with Pokemon characters. It doesn't seem to have any of Pokemon mechanics other than moves, with the notable absence of type advantages.

I mean, if you think of it... who is handling this game? Tencent
Who also owns Riot games?... also Tencent

2+2...

 

[War Incarnate]

Dominion mode of League.

??

In all seriousness, I've never played LoL, so what do you mean by this?

 

[Worldie]

??

In all seriousness, I've never played LoL, so what do you mean by this?

It's a game mode that got retired a few years ago. The map worked with conquerable bases, holding a base gave X points per second, first team to Y points won.

 

[PsychicAcademic]

I'll probably be feeding the Tencent bias again, but I noticed in Wikipedia, they tell not much about controversy. Except one thing.

I read someone Chinese (or so they claim) said they have problem with plagiarism, something that Wikipedia also mentioned. Obviously, what they said would be full of "Tencent bias", but now we see that this MOBA is innovating way too little. People compàred it with other MOBA, with how way too similar it was. People are saying how cookie cutter this is.
The roster selection is also questionable at best, derisively called as KANTOOOOOOOOOOOO + Furry bait + random bird (yes, I know Smogonbird joke, but that's outdated and it's funny they picked that over Greninja, especially when literally same typing Zard exists and they could've used other birds if they insist with birds)

Catching random wild Mon in middle of team battle as excuse for MOBA's "beat random wild mooks" also sound stupid.

Yeah, it doesn't look like a "Pokémon game", but just "game with Pokémon". This reeks of recycled (if not outright plagiarized) gameplay....

 

[Celever]

I'll probably be feeding the Tencent bias again, but I noticed in Wikipedia, they tell not much about controversy. Except one thing.

I read someone Chinese (or so they claim) said they have problem with plagiarism, something that Wikipedia also mentioned. Obviously, what they said would be full of "Tencent bias", but now we see that this MOBA is innovating way too little. People compàred it with other MOBA, with how way too similar it was. People are saying how cookie cutter this is.
The roster selection is also questionable at best, derisively called as KANTOOOOOOOOOOOO + Furry bait + random bird (yes, I know Smogonbird joke, but that's outdated and it's funny they picked that over Greninja, especially when literally same typing Zard exists and they could've used other birds if they insist with birds)

Catching random wild Mon in middle of team battle as excuse for MOBA's "beat random wild mooks" also sound stupid.

Yeah, it doesn't look like a "Pokémon game", but just "game with Pokémon". This reeks of recycled (if not outright plagiarized) gameplay....

They own the company that makes League of Legends (the MOBA it's closest to but still not by any means a carbon copy of) so they haven't plagiarised anything here. You can't plagiarise yourself.

 

[Worldie]

(the MOBA it's closest to but still not by any means a carbon copy of)

Replace the League champions with Pokemon, there's Unite.

Though, at least they did "sorta" innovate with the skill selection, if I understant correctly it's more of a talent system (akin at the one of Hots), rather than just "level up and put a skill point in one of 4 skills"

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

Second-highest comment in the linked Reddit thread:

It's a game made for China and they figured 'hey might as well localize it for the rest of the world'.

Fan backlash won't do any harm to this game, it will still be big in China and that is going to be 99% of the playerbase anyway.

Which, yeah, okay.

 

[Celever]

Replace the League champions with Pokemon, there's Unite.

Though, at least they did "sorta" innovate with the skill selection, if I understant correctly it's more of a talent system (akin at the one of Hots), rather than just "level up and put a skill point in one of 4 skills"

It's the same objective but the gameplay and mechanics of the combat is different from what we've seen. It's like saying Overwatch and Splatoon are copies of TF2 because of the payload modes.

MOBAs are all fairly similar. If this game were significantly different, it wouldn't be a MOBA any more.