Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.

[deluge]

intimidate only work for switching into atacks, the enemy can just switch and your little bonus is gone, bulky nite is 9000% superior to bulky mence, nite being outclassed in the offensive is one thing but people trying to make mence bulky is just fucking retarded. nite also dont need light screen to survive ice beams, with enough evs he can take ice beams from swampert, bliss and cress all day, setup DD (bulky DD, does way better then mence) and roost. mence should always and only be used on the offensive, any other thing nite does better.

Bulky Mence (Def) is the better switch in to Fighting types than Dragonite.
If they switch out due to intimidate and come back you already have a DD and you're faster.
Who cares about Def at that point?

Unlike slow ass Dragonite all Mence has to do is switch in because it will outpace many revengers after they're forced to switch out and it DDs.
Intimidate makes it perfectly capable of doing that and turning the tables on threats.
A few Def EVs widens the scope of targets that Salamence can switch into and screw.

BTW, a bulky Ev'ed Mence (SpD) can take weak Swampert/Cress Ice Beams also and Nite cannot set up on Vaporeon and Suicune Ice Beams without a Screen and Roost either.
Dragonite just resorts to these niches because it has nothing better to do not because the metagame greatly needs them.

Not sure why everyone is getting so emotional...lol
Fact is fact. Dragonite could benefit from some goodies in Gen V.

 

[Brass]

I think it is just hard to make that type bad lol

 

[M BLADE]

And then a ev'ed Mence (spD) is just outclassed by Dragonite. Entirely.

It is a fact that Dragonite could benefit from said goodies, but arguing that bulky Mence is better than Bulky Nite (no matter where the EVs are, or Intimidate or whatever) is going a little bit far IMO.

 

[blasphemy1]

Honestly, you NEED a great typing (Swampert, Rotom-A) or high speed (Celebi, Zapdos) to pull off defensive sets. Dragonite has neither of those and doesn't offer anything truly unique. When I've ran the Cleric Dancer it simply doesn't have enough power or speed, and it's still not as bulky as something like Adamant Snorlax. Heal Bell is nice but I've never been in a match where I've thought to myself "I wish I had a Support Dragonite right now instead of Rotom-A..." Dragonite definitely needs something to make him top tier.

 

[Aminar]

What if they tweak the damage formula in Black and White? The one they have now is great, but one of the biggest gen 4 complaints is that it's too offensive. If they made defense matter more the whole metagame would shift. Or maybe if the just lowered outrage and Draco-Meteors base power...

 

[Lucalibur]

fact is, even with roost mence cant setup on swampert and cress ice beams, he is taking more then 70% from a ice beam before roosting, he wont ever be at 100% hp while setting up(since he is faster, he will be taking about 40% from ice beams while roosting), he just cant setup on any ice beam at all, and nite is just abusing its movepool, if he can setup light screen to setup EVEN better then normal then why not use? nite does ANY bulky job better, bulky DD mence counts too much on intimidate, stuff like clear body, special sweepers(nite can setup on quite a few of then) and others will end mence fun. nite dont need its enemy stats droped to make him work.

 

[Tortferngatr]

What if they tweak the damage formula in Black and White? The one they have now is great, but one of the biggest gen 4 complaints is that it's too offensive. If they made defense matter more the whole metagame would shift. Or maybe if the just lowered outrage and Draco-Meteors base power...

I'd be surprised if they didn't make a Water-type Draco Meteor and call it Tsunami (unless it'll get released during recovery efforts for a coastal flood, in which case...yeah.) Draco Meteor fits into an archetype of moves along with Overheat and Leaf Storm: 140 base Sp. A. moves that do stat recoil.

As for Outrage...well, there's always the chance of Nite getting a Dragon-typed Close Combat related to snakes (dra/tini/gonair) that Mence can't get because it is too fat to even pass for a giant Dunsparce.

 

[Lou Cypher]

Hey, at least Dragonite can safely switch in on Dunsparce, it has that niche right?

 

[Proboscidea]

I'd be surprised if they didn't make a Water-type Draco Meteor and call it Tsunami (unless it'll get released during recovery efforts for a coastal flood, in which case...yeah.) Draco Meteor fits into an archetype of moves along with Overheat and Leaf Storm: 140 base Sp. A. moves that do stat recoil.

As for Outrage...well, there's always the chance of Nite getting a Dragon-typed Close Combat related to snakes (dra/tini/gonair) that Mence can't get because it is too fat to even pass for a giant Dunsparce.

Speaking of Outrage, they should raise Petal Dance's base power by 40 points or 50 since it's Grass.

 

[blasphemy1]

I'd be surprised if they didn't make a Water-type Draco Meteor and call it Tsunami (unless it'll get released during recovery efforts for a coastal flood, in which case...yeah.) Draco Meteor fits into an archetype of moves along with Overheat and Leaf Storm: 140 base Sp. A. moves that do stat recoil.

As for Outrage...well, there's always the chance of Nite getting a Dragon-typed Close Combat related to snakes (dra/tini/gonair) that Mence can't get because it is too fat to even pass for a giant Dunsparce.

I've always wondered why the water type is missing it's Overheat-like move and Flare Blitz-like move. Both Grass and Fire have them, why not water? Feraligatr would love a water type Flare Blitz, while Empoleon, Starmie, etc, could take advantage of the water type Overheat.

As for the dragon move, as long as it was given to just Dragonite and a few others (not Salamence) then I could definitely see it being amazing, yet not broken.

 

[Lucalibur]

gamefreak was gay enough giving outrage to more then 200 different pokemons, if they make a new dragon move, give to nite at first and then in another game give to the others dragons too i am going to get mad.

 

[Tortferngatr]

I've always wondered why the water type is missing it's Overheat-like move and Flare Blitz-like move. Both Grass and Fire have them, why not water? Feraligatr would love a water type Flare Blitz, while Empoleon, Starmie, etc, could take advantage of the water type Overheat.

As for the dragon move, as long as it was given to just Dragonite and a few others (not Salamence) then I could definitely see it being amazing, yet not broken.

Yeah. Tsunami's also a logical name and easy to make an animation for (just make a Surf+navy blue water+white foam+sea background.) I'm surprised Game Freak didn't use it...

Of course, Bibarel and Surskit don't get it because it's a freshwater Pokemon and you don't see tsunamis forming in lakes.

As for the Dragon Close Combat...I'd give it to Weavile (just because it's still nigh useless on him,) all the starting Normals via breeding except Bidoof (I know it makes little sense, but hey, at least more Linoone would require extermination in UU if/when Garchomp inevitably comes down for Gen V and Flygon is forced backwards,) snake Pokemon (Ekans line, Seviper,) and maybe Sceptile/Dunsparce. It would give Sceptile a reason to run SD and Dunsparce a tiny bonus.

Also, Swift Strike: Dragon Priority, 40 BP.

Mence is too fat to get it.

Dragonite is fat, but at least he's semi-aerodynamic and fat, hence he gets the ability to revenge Mence with a Swift Strike.

 

[MegaKick]

game freak probably would rather add something to mence than ddnite. In there mind, even with all the obvious advantages mence has, dragonite is a million times better. But hey, they think garchomp is the worst pseudo-legendary and tyranitar should be illegal
Imagine Gyrados with water typed flare blitz and brave bird or even roost - no one would question gyra over salamence as a DDancer

Damn, DDance + Brave Bird + Water Blitz + Roost gives perfect coverage, and the ability to come back later and re-setup with roost if he's forsced out. It also means he sets up on skarm when hes last poke standing. Sick

 

[blasphemy1]

game freak probably would rather add something to mence than ddnite. In there mind, even with all the obvious advantages mence has, dragonite is a million times better. But hey, they think garchomp is the worst pseudo-legendary and tyranitar should be illegal
Imagine Gyrados with water typed flare blitz and brave bird or even roost - no one would question gyra over salamence as a DDancer

Damn, DDance + Brave Bird + Water Blitz + Roost gives perfect coverage, and the ability to come back later and re-setup with roost if he's forsced out. It also means he sets up on skarm when hes last poke standing. Sick

I seriously doubt Gyarados would ever get Roost or Brave Bird, but who knows? Besides, Lanturn resists that combo :)

 

[SMZ]

I would love to see water-type Overheat/Flare Blitz. More on the Overheat one, since it'd be awesome on stuff like Starmie, hell it could even be a bred/level up move for none-water types if it fits and serves coverage for that Pokemon (kind of like how mence gets Hydro Pump by breeding).

 

[Lucalibur]

i want a fighting type overheat!

AURA STORM SPAM! go lucario with specs! 2hko bliss! fuck yeah!!!

 

[Tortferngatr]

i want a fighting type overheat!

AURA STORM SPAM! go lucario with specs! 2hko bliss! heck [Tortferngatr disapproves of the word you used, yes I have standards,] yeah!!!

Yeah, I've always wanted that the moment I set eyes upon Luke's SSBB Final Smash.

But think about that on Infernape or Togekiss...>8)

Also, Give Alakazam Psycho Boost and the Aura Storm suggestion. It would be SO useful on that thing...

 

[Frank Ripley]

Damn, DDance + Brave Bird + Water Blitz + Roost gives perfect coverage, and the ability to come back later and re-setup with roost if he's forsced out. It also means he sets up on skarm when hes last poke standing. Sick

Empoleon and Shedinja resist that combo too, as well as Lanturn.

 

[Lucalibur]

how the heck does shedninja resist brave bird? its a BUG type you know? get your facts right.

 

[Frank Ripley]

Whoops, my bad.

 

[Proboscidea]

Neutrality to Stealth Rock, immunity to Thunder Wave/Sandstorm, resistances to electric, fighting, ground, and poison. I pokesav'd a Wormadam Sandy Cloak with Pinsir's stats and Mold Breaker, hehe, totally owned. :)

How'd you get Pinsir's stats on Wormadam? Is that even possible?

 

[Revolution]

You can manually edit the stats of a Pokemon in Pokesav. (That's how you see shiny hacked Rayquazas with 999 in all stats.)

 

[McLuvdisc]

Empoleon and Shedinja resist that combo too, as well as Lanturn.

Last time I checked, Shedinja was part Bug and took Super-Effective damage from Flying.

I'm going to sound like a total hypocrite now, but I wish people would stop nitpicking on small things like this. One poster will say that a certain hypothetical attack combination is "unresisted" and the next four posts will be listing the same examples that prove them wrong. I know there's nothing wrong with corrections...their purpose is to educate the person who made the mistake, after all. But on a thread that's supposed to be about 5th gen discussion, it just seems like a waste of space.

That said, the reason behind these posts is totally understandable. I think we're all just starved for new information, since GameFreak is the Arceus of leakproofing. When the CoroCoro scans finally leak, I bet this thread will be filled with thirty pages of more legitimate speculation within twenty minutes.

 

[Airfoil]

NO TSUNAMI! Water is lucky enough to have reliable physical and special STAB that are actually well dispersed. Fire isn't so lucky. Grass needed some boosts and gained then via Grass Knot and Leaf Storm. The most powerful Grass attack used to be Giga Drain and Solar Beam (ones low powered, the other very risky, especially w/ Kyogre being such a monster and instant weather) and keep in mind how Leaf Blade was exlusive to Sceptile, leaving Razor Leaf......Dragon was meant to be the most uber type.

Fighting has Close Combat.

Speaking of Aura Storm, why doesn't Pikachu get "Thunder Jolt" or Skull Bash? lol



I want to see Fog come back sooooo badly....It would be my one of my first Gen V teams.

 

[Kalinnikov]

I think a weather condition worth elaborating upon would be Tailwind. Perhaps lower the speed increase slightly and have an auto-inducer and/or have an item that expands the number of turns it lasts. It would work like a trick room team but without having to rely on slow, bulky, pokemon to sweep, giving you the liberty of using slower Pokemon and now-uncatchable fast-Pokemon.