They could be hiding it like Ultra Necrozma, though Ultra Necrozms could be noticed if you put both box Art of US and UM together.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
also USUM still had the new forms of the legendary on the cover anyway...
Calyrex was only put on a box when they slapped the logo to the bottom with Urshifu (& also, only the Dark ursihifu) for the DLC bundle, it's still not the same situation
I can only think that base Dialga and Palkia are on the cover is because, well, we're indeed going to follow the main story that closely to the original.
... It would have to be additional content post game (maybe even post game episode) where there might be a possibility for them getting new forms of some kind. Easiest thing to do would be bring back Megas and give them Mega Evos (we don't really need their Spacetime Orbs to be "normal" holdable items so make them their "Mega Stones").
I don't see any reason dialga and palkia would have a new form other than "the gen 3 legendaries had them". I guess you could pull another primal reversion but dialga and palkia already feel too bordeline on their powers (they already control space and time, bumping that power level feels excessive). Unless you retool the game's lore but eh. I personally find sinnoh's story the worst of the series but changing it just to fit new forms feels like the wrong way to go.
They could pull a Platinum and give them Origin forms like Giratina, redistributing their stats and give them a new ability without anything too crazy. Origin form Giratina isn't even usable to the player until postgame in Platinum, so they could hide the new forms until the climax at Spear Pillar.
Problem is, though: Why hide them at all? Sure, it would make for a satisfying surprise, but it would also negate the marketing potential of the new forms. And we know that Game Freak is very fond of using new Pokémon or Formes to market their games. LGPE were the first games since the DS days (HGSS) not to have a new Pokémon on the cover. HGSS are also the only games since Crystal not to introduce any new Pokémon or forms (counting Meltan/Melmetal as new to LGPE). Surely, the marketing value of a new Pokémon or form is so great they wouldn't make a game without any - and if they did, wouldn't they feature heavily in marketing?
Then again, I suppose there is room at the end of the National Dex for a few new Mythicals. They could always distribute one of those exclusively through BDSP, market the fact heavily, and make the games exactly like DP otherwise. But in general, considering the high value and relative ease of giving the box legendaries new formes, I think it's a little strange that they seem not to be doing that.
Actually, HGSS had the Spiky Eared Pichu form that's part of a special event in that game. It's just not that noticeable because it's not capable of being traded or transferred outside of HGSS and it was a special event in and of itself.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
So I've heard from someone in another server that they've seen Youtube ads for BDSP and Legends. Anybody who can corroborate this? If so, do you know if they have new footage?
I found the BDSP one on twitter. I think the night Jubilife City scene at 0:13 is new but otherwise it's all trailer footage.
EDIT: Also the male character is in the house intro at 0:01 instead of the female and I think the 0:03 Jubilife scene is new too, showing the area around the Center.
EDIT 2:
The NPC on the top left of 0:13 facing left seems to have to turn up in an animation before moving right.
Last edited:
homie this is severe copium. you are getting a chibi 3d remake of pokemon diamond and you are going to like it!!!
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Yknow considering how much ppl are comparin this to HGSS to "prove" it's gonna suck it's ironic they've seemingly forgotten that HGSS didn't need to give any of its Pokemon new forms to be a good game
Why? We already know Volkner can make do without having every single different Electric-type available. Why keep around random mons nobody likes with a bunch of bespoke assets? I mean seriously, a signature move, ability, and tons of forms? That's the kind of thing that takes time away from making a good game.
The Mind Electric
Calming if you look at it right.
HG/SS are very bad games that get heaps of unearned praise because of nostalgia but that's beside the point.
About the potential for new legendary forms, I don't think it's very likely at this point. GF hasn't exactly been quiet about that sort of thing historically, and if they're not on the box art then I have a hard time believing that they exist at all, especially since a lot of the marketing for BP/SP has emphasized that they're not going to be making big changes like they did for OR/AS.
1) Origin forms are way more plausible than Super Mega Primal forms or whatever.
2) This doesn't feel like overly hopeful wishing because otherwise the games will be bad. This feels like genuine pondering.
3) The presence of alternate forms or the lack thereof has nothing to do with the games' art style.
4) No one has to like anything.
thank you, pumpkin. very cool
I'm getting this feeling from GF they're kind of worried about having a 3rd party company develop a core series title, even if they have a veteran staff member overlooking the project. As I've previously theorized, I do think this "style" was something they've been wanting to do for a while but just never had time. It's an experiment (and we already see the backlash to it) that GF probably feels, since they're the makers of Pokemon, had it been them developing it they would be fine. But since it's this 3rd party, they're worried about it not being accepted so are going ALL IN on the nostalgia by saying it's a 1:1 remake with graphical uplift. Of course, we know how GF likes to twist words, and we could just being hopeful, but while the main game can be a 1:1 remake fulfilling their promise they could maybe add in new locations, events and Pokemon forms post game. BUT we won't know that until at least the game is available because they're worried even the smallest of new things would for some upset fans... because it was another company handling the development (even if GF were the ones to make the new content).
Does that sound petty on GF's part? Yes, but I think in general GF, or at least the ones running the business, are petty, very petty even. From what I understand, despite Pokemon being one of Nintendo's top franchises, it's very hard to include a Pokemon cameo or reference in another Nintendo game because, not only do they have to get the agreement of both GF and Pokemon Company, but both are also very protective/stingy of the IP. Smash Bros seems to be the only exception to that rule, otherwise even 1st party Nintendo games known for their crossover references like Animal Crossing and Mario Maker only has scraps of Pokemon references (if I recall, Animal Crossing New Leaf didn't have any until the Let's Go promotion added in a batch of Poke Ball, Pikachu, and Eevee stuff. And Mario Maker is an infamous example where they have costumes for the Kanto Starters but they don't have special sound effects or mechanics unlike other costumes).
If I'm allowed to throw out a conspiracy theory, I'm worried they're setting up ILCA (a company who most never heard of and seemingly at this point only looks to have provided additional assistance to Square Enix games) to, not fail since it's still a Pokemon game, but "not to reach expectations" (said expectations to be high goals even GF would have a problem reaching); thus "proving" only GF are the ones who have the know how to make a successful Pokemon game. It's not GF's fault they forced ILCA to use an experimental style, restricted them to a 1:1 remake, and gave them a veteran GF producer who is known for his frustrating leadership; you gotta deal with the cards handed to you, right?
But HGSS added a lot of other things to the Johto games:
- First and foremost, they updated the graphics to match the current style of the generation. BDSP is the first remake to not use the same style of graphics of that gen's installment of the core series it was released during.
- It gave a role to the opposite gender playable character where previously they had none. This is something BDSP doesn't need to do as the originals already did that.
- Character roles were expanded and new story events were added. Examples include the Kimono Girls who you encounter throughout and help setup a now required battle with the Legendary mascot before the League. There's also the Team Rocket Executives who all now have names, unique designs, and personalities.
- Speaking of designs, all major characters received updated designs. While we've only seen the playable characters & Barry, there designs haven't been changed at all from their Diamond & Pearl designs. And being they're doing the chibi overworld graphics I doubt they'll be doing any clothing customization so it's not like they're keeping the base designs because we can change their outfits. So this doesn't bode well to the other characters like Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Team Galactic having new designs.
- Included the Pokeathlon possibly to make up for not including Super Pokemon Contests. If they're promising a 1:1 remake for BDSP then by definition they can't add in any big features like this as it wasn't in the original game (though do expect them to have the Game Corner closed down; it'll be there because it's a 1:1 map recreation just you can't enter it just like in ORAS).
- Pokegear's tools were expanded mainly due to them now able to do more plus had a second screen. Should be interesting to see what they do with the Poketch as they no longer have a bottom screen. None of the apps technically need it, but some were made with the idea you'd have it visible on the bottom screen: Digital Watch/Analog Watch to always know the time, Memo Pad to keep a handy reminder note always visible, Pedometer to keep track of your steps, Pokemon List to know how your team is doing, Dowsing Machine so you can just tap the screen and see any nearby hidden items, & Counter to keep track of something you're counting.
- Gym Puzzles were redone to make them more complex. Honestly the Sinnoh Gyms could use a re-imagining but if they're 1:1 remakes at best we're getting the Platinum versions of some Gyms.
- HGSS included the Battle Frontier. Well have to see by "1:1 remake" do they mean of Diamond & Pearl or of Platinum, judging by ORAS which wasn't a 1:1 remakes but still presented as an updated remake of Ruby & Sapphire (but not Emerald hence no Battle Frontier nor Gym Leader rematches) I wouldn't hold my breath. But hey, they showed Porygon-Z in the trailer which... honestly means nothing as it's a Gen IV Pokemon even if its in the regional dex or not.
- Added some quality of life mechanics such as the Berry Pots & able to keep the Running Shoes turned on. Would like those back, but we didn't in ORAS so...
- Added in Following Pokemon. I don't see any Pokemon following the player in the trailer of BDSP.
There's probably other things I forgot but I think I made my point.
Though, speaking of new forms, in addition to Dialga & Palkia, would have liked to see some new forms for Rotom. Would be the perfect opportunity to add in some like Vacuum Rotom, Blender Rotom, Power Drill Rotom, and of course, Electric Toothbrush Rotom.
Had this been a normal remake it would have been a nice opportunity to expand the Pokemon in the Trophy Garden.
Oh, I just realized something. With the overworld characters appearing much more similar to 2D games, one of my biggest problems with NPC animation in the 3D games (people handing you items from social distancing range while your hands are at your sides) might not be an issue in these games. With any luck my other big problem (NPCs moving like Linoones with tank controls) is also alleviated, but I'm not as hopeful on that one.
Handing Your Items: Yeah, now they'll either do no animation or they'll do the "hand off" animation still but the camera is so pulled far back it'll seem more convincing (but really isn't). Yeah graphical regression!
90 Degrees Walking: No, they're back on a grid. Instead it'll look like what it did in the old days where, if a character has to reach a diagonal location, they'll first go up/down, turn 90 degrees and go left/right (or go left/right first and 90 degrees to go up/down). If we're lucky they MAY have a turning animation... though if they're dedicated to replicating the feel of the DS era they'd just have the character suddenly pointing in the direction they want to go as if they teleported on the space they're on.
Hg/ss really did fuckall to fix any of johto’s problems (the shit dex, tres dragonites, jank level curve) and it still got gassed to hell and back on nostalgia alone. fascinating.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
i mean yeah hgss is dogshit and doesn't deserve an ounce of the praise it gets but my point was moreso "we dont need shiny new Pokemon forms, there are a surplus of other ways they can add to/tweak the game"
Oh cool, you have BDSP's full changelog and therefore can confirm it doesn't alter as much? Mind showing us?
Or, alternatively, GF wanted to work on Legends, something that is far more in-line with their pre-established philosophy of not wanting to do the exact same thing when revisiting an old region, realized a standard DP remake while necessary was not gonna be doable in-house considering the resources needed for Legends and got another studio who's already worked with the Pokemon IP to do it for them with some supervision by their senior staff? Yknow, a perfectly rational business decision?
Pika, you and I are on very different wavelengths. I want Pokemon overworlds to look more like they did in 2D because I think NPC animation looked significantly better in 2D, despite and perhaps because of the limitations.
Those genuinely look way better than what the 3D games do now. Because the characters are so stylized and wide, and since the grid system (and their wide-ness) lets them get closer to each other without looking weird, item transfer automatically looks better.Handing Your Items: Yeah, now they'll either do no animation or they'll do the "hand off" animation still but the camera is so pulled far back it'll seem more convincing (but really isn't). Yeah graphical regression!
Grid movement is not inherently bad. In-engine cutscenes in the 2D games didn't look weird even with the grid movement for several reasons:90 Degrees Walking: No, they're back on a grid. Instead it'll look like what it did in the old days where, if a character has to reach a diagonal location, they'll first go up/down, turn 90 degrees and go left/right (or go left/right first and 90 degrees to go up/down). If we're lucky they MAY have a turning animation... though if they're dedicated to replicating the feel of the DS era they'd just have the character suddenly pointing in the direction they want to go as if they teleported on the space they're on.
- The entire world was built on a grid. Anything that broke the grid would look out of place. The player also being restricted to a grid helps this.
- Even in 3D games where NPC movement isn't limited to a grid, they still only ever move in straight lines. It's just that sometimes they move in diagonals now. No one ever moves in a curve, despite nothing about the world or your own movement suggesting that makes sense.
- The lack of turning animations made movements snappy, and characters only having at most like four sprites for any given direction meant that your mind could fill in the gaps of what was happening. It also meant that characters could easily walk backward if needed.
- Compare this to 3D games, where every change in direction is accompanied with a slooooow pivot animation, and the more complex animations mean that a character can only really take a single step back (which is just a special animation; they don't actually move from their spot)and any farther they would need to turn alllllll the way around, run a few steps, and potentially turn allllllllll the way back around if they're still needed on the scene.
- This is the main reason why I'm skeptical this won't be a problem in BDSP. Even though characters move on a grid, their animations are much more fluid than a handful of key poses, so the snappiness might still be lost.
- Compare this to 3D games, where every change in direction is accompanied with a slooooow pivot animation, and the more complex animations mean that a character can only really take a single step back (which is just a special animation; they don't actually move from their spot)and any farther they would need to turn alllllll the way around, run a few steps, and potentially turn allllllllll the way back around if they're still needed on the scene.