Pokemon that disappointed you in-game despite looking good initially?

[Ryota Mitarai]

I've used Seaking in RSE and it was pretty bad. I remember it did nothing worthwhile that I'd have remembered.

As for the "Alola hates on Ghosts and Psychics", I feel like this is not necessarily attributable to every Ghost or Psychic. Some Pokemon like Alakazam do not mind much the Dark-type moves. Alakazam can just blast away most Bug-types and Dark-types are hit by Signal Beam. My Alakazam also managed to bring Totem Marowak to red HP and also defeated Lurantis, in spite of the latter possessing Solar Blade and Zam having a Defense IV of 3. Gengar, likewise, never really had concerns about Dark moves on the routes, though its major fights performance is a different topic. I guess more power = less concern about Dark-types, really.

While I am at it, I am actually gonna talk about Gengar in USUM. I feel like Gengar is at its worst in USUM (from the games I have played). While it can clean routes with zero issues, Gengar experiences issues against boss fights. It can only Curse at Normal Totem, is hit by Crabrawler's Pursuit (but the rest don't really concern it, as they have nothing for it), Gengar only beat Araquanid in my run because I was lucky with Hypnosis, and its movepool is terrible by the time you reach Marowak and Lurantis. I don't remember it doing much in most fights, in all honesty, and it needs Focus Blast just to do well against Molayne and Olivia. All in all, while it has no problems killing anything on the route, no matter what it is, Gengar is super underwhelming in boss fights. This is a huge shame, tbh, as Gengar is very good for major fights in most games, including HGSS and FRLG.

 

[Gleeboop]

So, when Duraludon was revealed, I was overly hyped. I mean, its a steel dragon not named "Dialga" and thus, more easily accessable, its supposed to be strong enough to fight this buffoon , and its design generally was done really well. But by the time I could actually catch it in game, I wasn't interested and already had a pretty full team that did more than it could and generally couldn't slot it (inteleon, boltund, coalossal, hatterene, pangoro, and corviknight). Plus, I enjoy having my playthrough pokemon evolve (even if they were leaked to you a few days before the game) and the fact that it didn't kinda hindered it. Duraludon's got spat on even more when its now in RU and can't really beat ttar in ou due to its teammates. rip dragon building. You will be sorely missed.

 

[Nokocchi]

If it got Drill Peck like it does later

Seaking has never had Drill Peck in any game. In fact, unlike Peck, whose Japanese name could be either translated as "Peck" or "Jab"(which is why many Pokemon with spines and horns can learn it, including Seaking), Drill Peck is called "Drill Beak", and thus only bird Pokemon get it.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Seaking has never had Drill Peck in any game. In fact, unlike Peck, whose Japanese name could be either translated as "Peck" or "Jab"(which is why many Pokemon with spines and horns can learn it, including Seaking), Drill Peck is called "Drill Beak", and thus only bird Pokemon get it.

Am I confusing it with Drill Run? I am, aren't I?

 

[jordanthejq12]

Am I confusing it with Drill Run? I am, aren't I?

You are indeed. Seaking has had Tutor access to Drill Run since Gen V.

 

[Sonikku A]

Pikachu in Explorers
On paper it seems good. Paralysis inflicting either by Static or Thunderwave, Quick attack for range, Agility, then Discharge later for Monster house clearing
But in practice it (and Shinx) suffer. Electric types are only good in Waterfall cave (early game no biggie already), and Surrounded Sea. Amp plains is horrific cuz of Luxray/Manectric, almost everything late game has Earth Power, a room wide range, and defenses are only a little decent compared to other starters. If it had better type coverage it'd probably be decent, but even then, Dark Crater with it is DEATH
But at least it isn't Phanpy. Doesn't even have stab for levelup unless you use a specific berry for Natural Gift

 

[Kiwi]

I remember a long time ago when pokemon were first being announced. The starters looked extremely excited and I was hyped, especially for Sobble. I was hoping since it seemed to disappear in the trainer that it would be a really cool ghost or dragon plus water Pokemon. Then I saw drizzle.. disappointing but, it can only get better right? Boy was I wrong, Inteleon is still cool and all, but I was seriously excited to have some kind of water ghost or water dragon Pokemon, but unfortunately not.
Also, towards the point where more Pokemon were being announced, I was quite excited, but I then came to realise that the roster being small meant I'd have to be picky with my team because I always like to use new Pokemon on the first play through of a new game. But I realised other there weren't many great looking Pokemon. Eldegoss, Silcobra, Pincurchin... without seeing their stats and abilities and looking at the cover, the design of the new Pokemon didn't really appeal to me much I guess. Other than the regional exclusives (especially Obstagoon), Dragapult and Alcremie, I wasn't too excited about the new Pokemon, not disappointed with how they would shape the meta, but rather the potential of the designs and how they weren't used to their greatest extent. But as long as the game is keeping me entertained :P

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I feel like "I only want to use brand new Pokemon" bites a lot of people in the ass, considering the past three generations have introduced very few Pokemon (a pattern I don't forsee stopping any time soon).

If you haven't used, say, a Wingull before in a story run, it's functionally a new Pokemon. Especially when you consider the possibility of being surprised by altered movepools (or in Wingull's case, altered abilities).

 

[Scorbunny]

I really wanted more with Galar. I love the new mons and I’m glad we got new regional variants, but excluding the regional variants, we only got around 80 new mons. I was expecting more. I checked Wikipedia and possible pokemon that be based on English mythical creatures. A Jack Frost or Boogeyman inspired mon would be cool. Grimmsnarl is kinda close to a boogeyman-esque mon, I guess. Obviously, there are a lot more English creatures GF could’ve went used.

 

[Codraroll]

Would it be wishlisting if we made a list of Pokemon who we all agreed could use a stat redo?

Sorry for late answer, but yes, it would :(

 

[Samtendo09]

Would it be wishlisting if we made a list of Pokemon who we all agreed could use a stat redo?

Sorry for late answer, but yes, it would :(

Plus there would be way too many Pokémon to list at once, and it would end up derailing the thread as well.

And I tell you, that is because we have far more Pokémon that are underwhelming (in-game or competitive) than Pokémon that are considered as overpowered or straight up super annoying. Despite GF's effort to buff them via small stat boost, more often than not it isn't enough. I know perfect balance ain't possible but an effort to lessen the massive fissure between useful Pokémon and not-so-useful Pokémon would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Sorry for late answer, but yes, it would :(

Understood, it'll then just be something for my personal notes.

Plus there would be way too many Pokémon to list at once, and it would end up derailing the thread as well.

And I tell you, that is because we have far more Pokémon that are underwhelming (in-game or competitive) than Pokémon that are considered as overpowered or straight up super annoying. Despite GF's effort to buff them via small stat boost, more often than not it isn't enough. I know perfect balance ain't possible but an effort to lessen the massive fissure between useful Pokémon and not-so-useful Pokémon would be greatly appreciated.

Well, unless it was a major stat re-distribution, I'd imagine it would mainly only be focused on the final stage evolutions.

 

[Plague von Karma]

RBY Pidgeot is another sad Pokemon. With no stat over 100 yet and cursed with the lack of STAB outside of Double-Edge, Pidgeot is virtually designed to be a Pokemon you ditch early. I dislike the trend of making Pokemon designed to be kicked off in older gens, as many of them actually look great. Hell, they're the first Pokemon you see evolve, why would you want to drop them? Plus, unlike Nidoking and Raticate who can genuinely hold their own late-game, Pidgeot literally can't.

There's a weird "Normal/Flying hierarchy" I kind of noticed in RBY:
- Gets Drill Peck and Body Slam, great offenses
- Gets Drill Peck, somewhat good offenses
- Gets neither, can die in a fire
And I don't know why. It matches progression, though.

Pidgeot literally gets nothing of worth in RBY, learning what, less than 30 moves or something? Most of these are generic TMs like Bide and stuff. The only cool thing it gets is Mirror Move, I guess? Why can't it get Body Slam or something?

 

[CoolMan6001]

The only cool thing it gets is Mirror Move, I guess?

And even then, Fearow simply gets it at an earlier level. (22 as Spearow, 25 as Fearow. Compare to 44 as Pidgey, 49 as Pidgeotto, and 54 as Pidgeot)

Man it was like Pidgeot was supposed to be outclased or something. It at least has Brave Bird over Fearow in later gens...

 

[Plague von Karma]

Man it was like Pidgeot was supposed to be outclased or something...

I dislike the trend of making Pokemon designed to be kicked off in older gens, as many of them actually look great.

I...I know?

 

[R_N]

RBY Pidgeot is another sad Pokemon. With no stat over 100 yet and cursed with the lack of STAB outside of Double-Edge, Pidgeot is virtually designed to be a Pokemon you ditch early. I dislike the trend of making Pokemon designed to be kicked off in older gens, as many of them actually look great. Hell, they're the first Pokemon you see evolve, why would you want to drop them? Plus, unlike Nidoking and Raticate who can genuinely hold their own late-game, Pidgeot literally can't.

There's a weird "Normal/Flying hierarchy" I kind of noticed in RBY:
- Gets Drill Peck and Body Slam, great offenses
- Gets Drill Peck, somewhat good offenses
- Gets neither, can die in a fire
And I don't know why. It matches progression, though.

Pidgeot literally gets nothing of worth in RBY, learning what, less than 30 moves or something? Most of these are generic TMs like Bide and stuff. The only cool thing it gets is Mirror Move, I guess? Why can't it get Body Slam or something?

The sad thing is i am pretty sure it was desgined to grow with you. A quasi-starter.

Like it's a 3 stage bird that you get right next to your starter. There's a reason the rival gets it and keeps it but drops the raticate. Especially for gen 1 this is really notable because the only other 3 stage flying types are Charizard & Butterfree, the former a starter, the latter a designed-to-throw-away early game bug and both are only flying type at the last step.
Pidgey also evolves at approximately the same time your starter does (2 levels later for mid stage, equal level w/ charizard & blastoise for pidgeot)

The problem is they made it an all-around pokemon (ever so slightly good speed) so Fearow & PDodrio outclass it in the stats that matter. They didn't give it good moves. Or barely any moves, at all, for that matter. but that doesnt feel purposeful if you catch my drift. It's really stark when you contrast with Raticate, a pokemon so designed to be thrown away the rival literally boxes his half way through the game


generation 1!!!!

 

[DrPumpkinz]

The problem is they made it an all-around pokemon (ever so slightly good speed) so Fearow & Pidgeot outclass it in the stats that matter. They didn't give it good moves. Or barely any moves, at all, for that matter. but that doesnt feel purposeful if you catch my drift.

The jack-of-all-trades curse is an interesting observation. Pidgeot trades Attack and Speed for higher HP, Defense, and Special, but the higher Special doesn't matter offensively because it doesn't learn any special attacks.

 

[Sonikku A]

The Jack of all trades curse kinda says alot about comp
Comp now favors min max heavily
Another cursed all trades mon, and personal fave, Golduck

Having around 80 each stat (except Sp Attk which is 95) it;
Gen 1: Despite Pokedex entries, the only Psychic move it can offensively use is Confusion, learned morbidly late, and the only good special move it can use is Hydro pump, learned at Level 53, which also is its only Stab. TM wise, Psychic moves still are mediocre, though having access to Blizzard, Double Edge, Submission and Seismic toss isn't too terrible, Good Water and Psychic coverage are still low
though Psyduck can have Amnesia pretty reliably, the best setup move Gen 1. But with the subpar stats, Golduck isn't staying

Gen 2: GF for whatever reason didn't fix its level up moves, and Sp def is only 80. TM wise, it weirdly DROPPED coverage for some types, though got Curse and DynamicMiss. Though Egg moves are actually pretty good, with it finally having good Psychic moves
Oh and I guess Event Petal Dance is a thing. Not sure how that's useful outside MAYBE against Lantern

Gen 3: No stat change, but Cloud Nine is a nice anti weather ability. Damp is pretty meh though

Level up it gained....Screech, Psych up, and Water sport? Really? It isn't even good in Mystery Dungeon offensively, outside Disable cheese. TM wise it's decent, but those stats...

Gen 4: Surprisingly GF made the level up moveset a tiny bit better. But it's too late. With it being woefully outclassed in stats and type niche, it stayed in lower tiers afterward

The sad thing is even weather wars couldn't make it useful. But having a niche against Primals is nice

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

Decided to make another post here, this time featuring Pokémon which disappointed me during the post-game as opposed to the main game. Hope that's allowed. I'll admit that some of these are my own fault since I wasn't using the Pokémon correctly, but I'm including them anyway.

Parasect in B2/W2. I used it for my Bug and Grass Challenge teams. It seemed decent. 95 Base Attack isn't all bad, it has great STABs in Seed Bomb and X-Scissor, Swords Dance to boost it's Attack, plus Spore! As well as Dry Skin which gives it an immunity to Water and free recovery during rain. But how did it work? Not very well. First of all, Parasect is slow. A base Speed of 30 means that basically everything will outrun it (I did not give it any Speed EVs), and it will take damage before it can move. Speaking of damage, Parasect has 6 weaknesses in total which means it is easy to defeat it by taking advantage of it's weaknesses. It is extra weak to Flying and especially Fire thanks to Dry Skin. It also had lackluster coverage, its STABs alone will be resisted by any Fire-, Poison-, Steel- or Flying-type. I guess I should have used a coverage move like Brick Break or Aerial Ace, but that meant I would have been forced to leave out either Spore or Swords Dance. But looking back, I never really got the chance to use either of them, so using an extra coverage move instead would probably have been for the better. My impression is that Parasect feels like a Pokémon that should only be used on a Trick Room Rain team or something, which is extremely niche.

Wormadam (Plant) which I used on the same teams as Parasect in B2/W2. I didn't have as high expectations on it, but it actually surprised me by being better than Parasect in one way! Leaf Storm could often KO opponents, and it was marginally faster than Parasect as well. Unfortunately, that's about it. Wormadam was extremely frail and I think the other moves it had (Signal Beam, Giga Drain and HP Rock) generally failed to KO any opponent, making it rather disappointing in the end.

Rhyperior. Used it on my first Battle Tower team in Diamond. While it could hit hard and take Physical hits well, it's Special bulk was terrible even with maxed HP and Solid Rock. I also relied on Stone Edge too much, which bad as it is a terrible move. 80% accuracy is awful in any Battle Facility, something I learned the hard way this time around. I remember that it missed against a Mismagius which KO'd with Energy Ball on the next turn.

Ledian. My favorite Johto Pokémon and I wanted to use it somewhere. But it isn't very good. I first used it on my post-game team in Diamond and I have no real bad memories from it there, but I don't recall it being super great either (it has been 12 years since I made that team though). The second time was more recently, when I used it on my mid-game team in Ultra Moon. Here, it was disappointing. Doesn't hit particularly hard with 55 Base Sp.att, and it is rather frail too, especially on the physical side. I still love it though. Though I guess Ledian is better off as a support Pokémon rather than an attacker.

Simipour. Sad to say as I really do like the elemental monkeys, but I used Simipour on my post-game team in Sun and it wasn't quite as good as I expected. I went for a Nasty Plot set since it has good coverage and good enough Speed, but it still felt lacking at times, which was unfortunate.

Last and least, the big one. Gardevoir in Gen 3. Gardevoir is my least favorite Pokémon, and that is because of how hard it disappointed me when I used it. I guess that's also an unpopular opinion (which I have thought about posting in the right thread, but now I'm posting about it here instead).

I used Gardevoir 3 times during Gen 3. The first time was on an in-game team in Ruby. I have no real bad memories of it there, but looking back, it also had a very questionable moveset by serious standards as well as an Adamant Nature which is terrible for it. Despite that, it not only got me through the main game and post-game, but it also somehow managed to get me to 49 wins in the Battle Tower along with it's buddies Swampert and Flygon (I lost at battle #50 which was extremely annoying).

I then used my second Gardevoir on an in-game team in XD, and despite it having the right Nature (Modest) this time around, I still remember being disappointed by how it didn't do enough damage at times, notably missing out on some important KO's. I was also planning to teach this Gardevoir some good Move Tutor moves by sending it to Emerald and then back to XD, thankfully I never did that.

Lastly, there's the Gardevoir I used for my Battle Arena team. It was just so disappointing in every way, weak and slow despite a Timid Nature and maxed Sp.att and Speed. After losing 5 times, I changed it for Starmie and that was the best desicion ever as I got to Gold Greta and beat her on my first try, Starmie only fainted once along the way (which was in Battle #55). After that had happened (it was 14 years ago), Gardevoir became my least favorite Pokémon. I have never trained another Gardevoir for anything serious afterwards, and I never will.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Aerodactyl and Scyther have offensive stats comparable to the almighty Tauros; Aerodactyl is faster and stronger, Scyther trades 5 Speed for more Attack. They're also immune to Earthquake, the most powerful physical move in the game. Thanks to their ridiculous Speed stats, they also get incredible critical hit rates to smash through Reflect. Hell, Scyther gets Swords Dance and Slash, providing two possible routes to build it. On paper, these two Pokemon should be ludicrously powerful...

But they're not. In fact, they fucking suck, and I would argue that RBY Aerodactyl in particular is one of the worst Pokemon of all time. Let's not beat around the bush: these movepools are absolutely fucking atrocious. Neither of these Pokemon have any notable STABs, let alone coverage. Let's go over each of them individually.

You probably already know about the tragedy that is Aerodactyl's abusive relationship with STAB. It wasn't until RS where we would see Aerodactyl finally get Rock Slide, and even today it struggles to find a good Flying-type move to use. It's always had Sky Attack...but not only is it bad, the fact the XY analysis will suggest Wing Attack first is also a testament to how bad that move is. The poor bastard has had to use HP Flying in GSC and ADV just to get by.

Back to RBY, though. The only two STABs Aerodactyl has are the 35 BP Wing Attack and Sky Attack. Outside of this, it didn't have Earthquake (without Tradebacks) or any Rock-type move. Its only coverage option was a Fire Blast coming from 60 Special and no STAB, then like, Double-Edge, which ended up being its primary attacking move. It had literally nothing of value. Despite its incredible stats and high potential to deal serious damage, Game Freak didn't only drop the ball, but they dropped multiple...and it's affected Aerodactyl negatively ever since.

While Aerodactyl at least had some STAB, Scyther had to wait a few years in Gen 1 to get it. On Red and Green's release, Scyther didn't even get the pitiful 35 BP Wing Attack. No Bug-type moves, no Flying-type moves. Just Slash, Double-Edge and Swords Dance to be cute with. Despite having more bulk than Tauros and potential to smash Psychic-types to pieces, it couldn't do any of it. It wouldn't be until Yellow where Scyther would finally get its singular STAB move, the previously mentioned 35 BP Wing Attack, at Level Fucking 50. Never has any Pokemon been insulted to the degree poor man Scyther has, and I will always hail the Wing Attack buff in Gen 2 as the second coming of Jesus.

Seriously though these Pokemon fucking suck holy shit

 

[MegaFlareon]

Aerodactyl and Scyther have offensive stats comparable to the almighty Tauros; Aerodactyl is faster and stronger, Scyther trades 5 Speed for more Attack. They're also immune to Earthquake, the most powerful physical move in the game. Thanks to their ridiculous Speed stats, they also get incredible critical hit rates to smash through Reflect. Hell, Scyther gets Swords Dance and Slash, providing two possible routes to build it. On paper, these two Pokemon should be ludicrously powerful...

But they're not. In fact, they fucking suck, and I would argue that RBY Aerodactyl in particular is one of the worst Pokemon of all time. Let's not beat around the bush: these movepools are absolutely fucking atrocious. Neither of these Pokemon have any notable STABs, let alone coverage. Let's go over each of them individually.

You probably already know about the tragedy that is Aerodactyl's abusive relationship with STAB. It wasn't until RS where we would see Aerodactyl finally get Rock Slide, and even today it struggles to find a good Flying-type move to use. It's always had Sky Attack...but not only is it bad, the fact the XY analysis will suggest Wing Attack first is also a testament to how bad that move is. The poor bastard has had to use HP Flying in GSC and ADV just to get by.

Back to RBY, though. The only two STABs Aerodactyl has are the 35 BP Wing Attack and Sky Attack. Outside of this, it didn't have Earthquake (without Tradebacks) or any Rock-type move. Its only coverage option was a Fire Blast coming from 60 Special and no STAB, then like, Double-Edge, which ended up being its primary attacking move. It had literally nothing of value. Despite its incredible stats and high potential to deal serious damage, Game Freak didn't only drop the ball, but they dropped multiple...and it's affected Aerodactyl negatively ever since.

While Aerodactyl at least had some STAB, Scyther had to wait a few years in Gen 1 to get it. On Red and Green's release, Scyther didn't even get the pitiful 35 BP Wing Attack. No Bug-type moves, no Flying-type moves. Just Slash, Double-Edge and Swords Dance to be cute with. Despite having more bulk than Tauros and potential to smash Psychic-types to pieces, it couldn't do any of it. It wouldn't be until Yellow where Scyther would finally get its singular STAB move, the previously mentioned 35 BP Wing Attack, at Level Fucking 50. Never has any Pokemon been insulted to the degree poor man Scyther has, and I will always hail the Wing Attack buff in Gen 2 as the second coming of Jesus.

Seriously though these Pokemon fucking suck holy shit

Scyther (and Pinsir) would have been awesome in Gen 1 if they had actual Bug STABs, considering that it was the only weakness Psychic-types had.

Ingame-wise, even Beedrill was better than Scyther because it had Twineedle.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Scyther (and Pinsir) would have been awesome in Gen 1 if they had actual Bug STABs, considering that it was the only weakness Psychic-types had.

Ingame-wise, even Beedrill is better than Scyther because it had Twineedle.

I've actually hacked Stadium before to test what Scyther and Pinsir would look like with Gen 7-8 Leech Life. They instantly became monsters. I forgot the calcs as this was a few years ago, but it was certainly something. I've considered starting up a Pet Mod or something to try this out again in a way others can enjoy.

I will make a riff on RBY Pinsir soon though. I have some particularly special points to bring up regarding it lol

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

To offer some FRLG perspective, Scyther is still not good. SD is cool, but you genrrally spam a normal move. And even HGSS one is overrated, because while Technician Wing Attack is cool, you are still gambling on a 1% encounter. And Rock Smash is arguably its only coverage anyways.

Aero has a better movepool in FRLG but it comes at level 5. However, if you grind it up, it's gonna perform somewhat fine due to the new movepool.

 

[CoolMan6001]

I've actually hacked Stadium before to test what Scyther and Pinsir would look like with Gen 7-8 Leech Life. They instantly became monsters. I forgot the calcs as this was a few years ago, but it was certainly something. I've considered starting up a Pet Mod or something to try this out again in a way others can enjoy.

I will make a riff on RBY Pinsir soon though. I have some particularly special points to bring up regarding it lol

It's amazing how Pokemon can begin to perform with actual movepools.

I once did a pet mod on Smogon where various RBY mons got changed (not with the intent of making all of them viable, but buffed anyway) and the Scyther here had Dual STAB (Achieved with a 70 BP Leech Life and Flying-Type 100% accurate Razor Wind without charge turn) which made it quite a threat. On the topic of Pinsir, it had differences in the form of gaining SlideQuake coverage. Aero got Dual STAB too (but not EQ. I was concerned Aero would become too good)

You can look at the documentation here. I never coded it unfortunately.

 

[Plague von Karma]

CoolMan6001 was there a thread and stuff for all this? I think I know a place that could have that thing coded and made playable.

--


Pinsir is a Pokemon that suffered similarly to Scyther and Aerodactyl, but in a different way. Unlike these two, Pinsir does in fact have offensive potential. It has access to Swords Dance, Body Slam and Submission, which puts it firmly above them on the shit pyramid.

The central issue with Pinsir, in my opinion, is how it wasn't made Bug/Fighting at the time. If it had STAB Submission backed with Swords Dance, it could be a very legitimate threat to many Pokemon. Hell, I think it could have a shot at OU.

No STAB
+2 Pinsir Submission vs. Snorlax: 352-414 (67.3 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With STAB
+2 Pinsir Submission vs. Snorlax: 527-620 (100.7 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The difference is staggering. I really think the one thing stopping Pinsir from reaching the point of greatness was not being part Fighting-type. It's so disappointing that Heracross wound up picking up the slack and being "Pinsir but done right" up until Gen 6. Now Megas are removed, and Pinsir is mostly doomed to serve that role again.

But to say this is Pinsir's one issue would be a lie. The lack of Bug STAB really stings, and cuts off its potential to beat Psychic-types. Not even Pin Missile is in that movepool, yet Jolteon gets it? Really, man?