Pokemon that disappointed you in-game despite looking good initially?

[mertyville]

Another Diamond run, another victim. I used Adamant Absol and leveled it up from lv1 to around 30 with experience share. It did wonders mid game thanks to Bite and Aerial Ace taking even care of pesky Fighting Types. But soon the game caught up with it. Absol was practically useless in the Pokemon League since it had no good moves. Sucker Punch is 50/50 and if the opponents set up, priority didn't help. I guess it did a good job cutting those annoying trees I guess.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

Another Diamond run, another victim. I used Adamant Absol and leveled it up from lv1 to around 30 with experience share. It did wonders mid game thanks to Bite and Aerial Ace taking even care of pesky Fighting Types. But soon the game caught up with it. Absol was practically useless in the Pokemon League since it had no good moves. Sucker Punch is 50/50 and if the opponents set up, priority didn't help. I guess it did a good job cutting those annoying trees I guess.

Bro haven't got super luck night slash scope lens goat. Well it's a shame. Absol is quite a good mon

 

[mertyville]

I knew Tropius is bad but you will realize how bad it is not just looking at its stats and movepool but also after being reminded that Razor Leaf and Grass STAB in General is god awful in Generation 3. Probably the worst it has ever been. Yes, Leaf Blade is 70 base power for those Sceptile fans.
But nothing explains how disappointing despite looking like a promising Pokemon as this video by Imported Cheese

This one is also good but more of making fun of Tropius

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I knew Tropius is bad but you will realize how bad it is not just looking at its stats and movepool but also after being reminded that Razor Leaf and Grass STAB in General is god awful in Generation 3. Probably the worst it has ever been. Yes, Leaf Blade is 70 base power for those Sceptile fans.
But nothing explains how disappointing despite looking like a promising Pokemon as this video by Imported Cheese

This one is also good but more of making fun of Tropius

Even after Grass moves got improved in Gen 4, it’s hard to overcome the failures of the Grass type. Turtwig, while better than its predecessors, is remarkably inconsistent. In a general sense, sometimes the better moves didn’t even save Grass types. Tangrowth gets Power Whip in the 50s, for example.

I find it hilarious how they made one of the best in-game Grass starters in the series (Sprigatito) by making Flower Trick always land critical hits normally. It’s like even they knew Grass moves were underwhelming (Wood Hammer is meh due to recoil, Power Whip has accuracy issues). Seed Bomb and Energy Ball are pretty good though.

 

[Ernesto]

I find it hilarious how they made one of the best in-game Grass starters in the series (Sprigatito) by making Flower Trick always land critical hits normally. It’s like even they knew Grass moves were underwhelming (Wood Hammer is meh due to recoil, Power Whip has accuracy issues). Seed Bomb and Energy Ball are pretty good though.

Feels like they realized they had to go back to the roots to Gen I's (almost) always-critting Razor Leaf. Anyway I still find ingame Grass-types very useful mostly because of their resistances, they aren't Water- or Flying-type levels of auto-include but still pretty high on the list.

 

[mertyville]

Even after Grass moves got improved in Gen 4, it’s hard to overcome the failures of the Grass type. Turtwig, while better than its predecessors, is remarkably inconsistent. In a general sense, sometimes the better moves didn’t even save Grass types. Tangrowth gets Power Whip in the 50s, for example.

I find it hilarious how they made one of the best in-game Grass starters in the series (Sprigatito) by making Flower Trick always land critical hits normally. It’s like even they knew Grass moves were underwhelming (Wood Hammer is meh due to recoil, Power Whip has accuracy issues). Seed Bomb and Energy Ball are pretty good though.

Also grass types are resisted by almost everything so you "always" do half damage anyways. Turtwig suffers a lot mainly due to being awfully slow and the most common Pokemon that resist its type combination are either too bulky or too fast. Golbat and Bronzong are so common I refuse picking Turtwig in any of my runs (aside your rival getting the best starter in-game)

 

[Codraroll]

Also grass types are resisted by almost everything so you "always" do half damage anyways. Turtwig suffers a lot mainly due to being awfully slow and the most common Pokemon that resist its type combination are either too bulky or too fast. Golbat and Bronzong are so common I refuse picking Turtwig in any of my runs (aside your rival getting the best starter in-game)

Come to think of it ... I feel that Grass as a starter type is getting a bit shafted compared to the others, in general. It's not necessarily that Grass is a bad type, but it's way easier to pick up a decent alternative for a Grass-type early in your adventure, compared to Water or Fire. Because the early-game tends to take you through grasslands biomes, there seems to always be an option for good Grass Pokémon hanging around. Water-types, meanwhile, are a bit more rare until you unlock whatever mechanic lets you swim or fish, at which point they become abundant. And finally, Fire-types, especially *good* Fire-types, tend to be very hard to come by. Heck, for those of us who like to use three-stage families, the exhaustive list of three-stage Fire-type evolution families that aren't starters is those of Magby, Litwick, Fletchling, and Rolycoly, and the latter two aren't even Fire-type in their first stage.

So while you can easily pick up a substitute for a Grass-type starter, the same is not as true of Water, and certainly not of Fire.

And, as mentioned, Grass-types have their drawbacks in being a rather mediocre offensive type. Two-thirds of their supereffective matchups overlap with Water, while that list of seven types that resist it hurts to read. Especially considering that Grass-type moves tend to trend towards the weaker side. Being weak to five types stings too. To tie this back to the title of the thread, I remember having a hard time using Decidueye in Alola, because practically everything had something to KO it with.

 

[R_N]

And, as mentioned, Grass-types have their drawbacks in being a rather mediocre offensive type. Two-thirds of their supereffective matchups overlap with Water, while that list of seven types that resist it hurts to read. Especially considering that Grass-type moves tend to trend towards the weaker side. Being weak to five types stings too. To tie this back to the title of the thread, I remember having a hard time using Decidueye in Alola, because practically everything had something to KO it with.

The problem with Decidueye in SM, as someone who also chose that as their starter, was less "ugh, the grass type is burdening me with so many weaknesses!" and more being a ghost type in a region where it felt like every third trainer has a dark type move in their back pocket.
Like fire's kinda annoying but outside of Kiawe's neck of the woods not super common; grunts like the carry around Salandits but its Salandit I do not care what is going on there. Same with Ice. Flying's a little more common but negligible in the grand scheme. & no one really carries these as "coverage" like they do with dark!

 

[ant4456]

Come to think of it ... I feel that Grass as a starter type is getting a bit shafted compared to the others, in general. It's not necessarily that Grass is a bad type, but it's way easier to pick up a decent alternative for a Grass-type early in your adventure, compared to Water or Fire. Because the early-game tends to take you through grasslands biomes, there seems to always be an option for good Grass Pokémon hanging around. Water-types, meanwhile, are a bit more rare until you unlock whatever mechanic lets you swim or fish, at which point they become abundant. And finally, Fire-types, especially *good* Fire-types, tend to be very hard to come by. Heck, for those of us who like to use three-stage families, the exhaustive list of three-stage Fire-type evolution families that aren't starters is those of Magby, Litwick, Fletchling, and Rolycoly, and the latter two aren't even Fire-type in their first stage.

So while you can easily pick up a substitute for a Grass-type starter, the same is not as true of Water, and certainly not of Fire.

And, as mentioned, Grass-types have their drawbacks in being a rather mediocre offensive type. Two-thirds of their supereffective matchups overlap with Water, while that list of seven types that resist it hurts to read. Especially considering that Grass-type moves tend to trend towards the weaker side. Being weak to five types stings too. To tie this back to the title of the thread, I remember having a hard time using Decidueye in Alola, because practically everything had something to KO it with.

This is something I've noticed in my Gen 1 playthroughs tbf too, mostly because I am a big fan of the Vileplume line and Vileplume is like 80% of the efficiency of Venusaur, especially on a casual playthrough.

I'm not a big fan of the Charmander line but I'll still pick it decently often because I don't like the Squirtle line either, and I can pick up a more aesthetically cleaning Venusaur in an hour, I tough out the first gym.

In modern gens this is even worse though.

 

[Ironmage]

The problem with Decidueye in SM, as someone who also chose that as their starter, was less "ugh, the grass type is burdening me with so many weaknesses!" and more being a ghost type in a region where it felt like every third trainer has a dark type move in their back pocket.
Like fire's kinda annoying but outside of Kiawe's neck of the woods not super common; grunts like the carry around Salandits but its Salandit I do not care what is going on there. Same with Ice. Flying's a little more common but negligible in the grand scheme. & no one really carries these as "coverage" like they do with dark!

This interestingly mirrors my experince with SM in which I did a mono-Bug run. There really wasn't much that hit on the fire or flying weakness Bug shares with Grass (or Bug's other weakness to Rock, for that matter). The mon I recall being most threatening was the occasional Magnezone, since my main access to anti-Steel coverage was from the Electric-weak Golisopod.

Speaking of that playthrough, the painfully late evolution on Vikavolt (somewhat addressed in USUM) meant that despite being my starter replacement it didn't end up in that prominent spot on the team. My go-to ended up being Ariados setting up Swords Dance under Ledian's screens.

 

[bdt2002]

Speaking on the recent discussions about the Grass-Type here, I can definitely vouch for the Type feeling a bit underpowered in then wrong environment, but it's the types that Grass is effective into that makes all the difference. With offensive and defensive matchups both accounted for, Grass is currently tied with the Bug-Type for the worst overall matchup spread at 4-7. Normal is technically just as bad with an 0-3 record, but Normal's 14 even matchups, the most of any Type, make me hesitate to call it one of the worst, especially with their underrated Ghost immunity. The difference between Grass and Bug is that the Grass-Type's winning matchups come against better Types than Bug wins against. Bug's arguably only good win comes against Dark, whereas Grass scores key wins against Water, Electric, Ground, and Rock-Types, as well as having their natural immunity to spore and powder moves ever since Gen 6. Grass and Bug's similarities don't end there, though, as both Types had somewhat limited options for viable STAB and coverage moves prior to Gen 4. The Bug-Type's addition of U-Turn alone is debatably much more important than anything the Grass-Type got in the generational shift, and special Bug-Types were granted Bug Buzz and a reworked Signal Beam too. Grass-Types, meanwhile, had to rely on a buffed Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb as their most reliable physical options, which aren't bad by any means but don't add as much to physically attacking Grass-Types as the special attacking additions of moves like Energy Ball, Grass Knot, and Leaf Storm, as well as a slightly reworked Frenzy Plant for single player gameplay.

The other issue for Grass-Types as I see it was something that a few of you already mentioned, but for the sake of me not wanting to copy any of your guys' points I'll just say that especially in games with HMs, it's extremely hard for me not to want to pick the Water-Type starter, or any generally strong Water-Type in general for an in-game playthrough team. The prevalence of the Surf HM (and the other water HMs I guess), possibly the most important move in all of single player, perhaps accidentally creates a major imbalance in the choice of starter Pokémon. No matter what, you're able to rely on the fact that your starter Pokémon will eventually get a strong, reliable STAB attack if you pick the Water-Type option, which isn't a luxury that's always available to the Grass and Fire-Type starters without going out of your way. There's other reasons why Water-Type starters are almost always my go-to, of course- just look at Alola's Popplio if you want an example of a dominant Water-Type starter in a game without HMs- but the deliberate focus in Gens 7 and 8 to feature earlygame boss fights of each starter Type and not have any required HMs in those same generations implies to me that maybe the developers were trying to do a bit of game balancing in the new open-ended style of post-HM Pokémon. By comparison, look at Black & White 1's first Gym and the fact that it's the only game with HMs that doesn't require Surf at all, and the difference is night and day. Sorry Oshawott fans, this Pokémon's only disappointed me more over time.

 

[Hugin]

The thing with the grass type is that it's excellent for utility. Powder for making catches easier, self-healing moves for stalling enemies and reducing item use, DOT effects for getting rid of otherwise unkillable mons, Grass is really good at supplying things to the player other than raw damage.

But Grass starters don't get any of that utility. People want their starter to be a damage source(both because LOL just sweep and because your starter is going to be your only viable team member for some portion of the game), so grass starters have been pretty offensive ever since Chikorita flopped. Sure, sometimes it's bulky offense, but offensive enough that GF doesn't want to give it Sleep Powder/Synthesis/etc. So they make a sweeper with the worst STAB in the game and have to give it broken abilities or moves just to keep it relevant.

Come on Gamefreak, just give us a mushroom starter with Spore and let the type do what it's good at.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

Grass's identity as the disruptive toolbox type is a) what I really like about it and b) increasingly at odds with the design philosophy of single-player Pokemon. With Totem Pokemon+Ultra Necrozma as pretty much the sole exception, the modern games tend to discourage the player from using slower strategies based around passive damage or debuffs. You probably won't find yourself consistently underlevelled in the newer games without deliberately handicapping yourself, so why bother with any strategy beyond 'STAB+coverage'? Supermechanics have contributed too, by always favouring the flashier, more offensive use cases, both in terms of NPC usage and general competitive utility (Dynamax in particular completely removes your ability to use unique non-damaging move effects).

Power creep also makes things tricky. When offensive threats are so strong, it becomes harder to justify using Grass's toolbox for any purpose besides enabling a sweeper (which is just a different flavour of offence). However, it's very difficult to make disruptive/utility moves strong enough to compete as a separate strategy without also making them deeply unpleasant and restrictive to play against (which is probably why Smeargle is still our fastest Spore user).

 

[mertyville]

As much as we knock on Chikorita, at least it started off strong with Razor Leaf. Treeko had to evolve to Grovevile (or however you spell it) and reach 29 to get something useful. After that nothing useful is in its level up move (lv59 False Swipe in Gen 3 is a joke). Serperior which is known as an offensive powerhouse and for its amazing utility is a total joke in Gen 5 (Haha, 75 base offenses and no coverage). And I think I mentioned how disappointing Turtwig is, they couldn't even give the middle stage (Grotle?) the Ground Typing.

Since Gen 6 the offensive capability of Grass Starters improved. Not by a lot but I did feel like I could rely on Rowlet line or the Gen 6 starter.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Serperior which is known as an offensive powerhouse and for its amazing utility is a total joke in Gen 5 (Haha, 75 base offenses and no coverage)

Keep in mind that I'm just going off paper here, since I've never played Gen 5, but even without Glare and Contrary, you've still got great speed and dual screens, with options for Leech Seed, Coil, and Growth on the side. Seems like pretty good synergy with Work Up Simipour (or Swords Dance Excadrill if you wanna be optimal I guess)

 

[Basedwell]

Even after Grass moves got improved in Gen 4, it’s hard to overcome the failures of the Grass type. Turtwig, while better than its predecessors, is remarkably inconsistent. In a general sense, sometimes the better moves didn’t even save Grass types. Tangrowth gets Power Whip in the 50s, for example.

I find it hilarious how they made one of the best in-game Grass starters in the series (Sprigatito) by making Flower Trick always land critical hits normally. It’s like even they knew Grass moves were underwhelming (Wood Hammer is meh due to recoil, Power Whip has accuracy issues). Seed Bomb and Energy Ball are pretty good though.

I don’t think every type needs a good offensive move with no drawbacks or there’s nothing that really differentiates types anymore.

 

[Ernesto]

The thing with the grass type is that it's excellent for utility. Powder for making catches easier, self-healing moves for stalling enemies and reducing item use, DOT effects for getting rid of otherwise unkillable mons, Grass is really good at supplying things to the player other than raw damage.

But Grass starters don't get any of that utility. People want their starter to be a damage source(both because LOL just sweep and because your starter is going to be your only viable team member for some portion of the game), so grass starters have been pretty offensive ever since Chikorita flopped. Sure, sometimes it's bulky offense, but offensive enough that GF doesn't want to give it Sleep Powder/Synthesis/etc. So they make a sweeper with the worst STAB in the game and have to give it broken abilities or moves just to keep it relevant.

Come on Gamefreak, just give us a mushroom starter with Spore and let the type do what it's good at.

I'm currently doing a LeafGreen run (I never actually played that game the whole way fsr) with Bulbasaur and the early Sleep Powder is definitely amazing, can't believe in Gen I it was only learned in time for like Mewtwo—which obviously makes no sense because who in their right minds would attempt to take it on with a Poison-type. Using it + Leech is not only great to weaken mons to catch but also to save money/time by not needing to use Potions or go heal. I did have to reset once because Misty's Starmie got an early wake + crit Swift as I was one level short from Razor Leaf but it's been really solid outside of that.

To stay on topic, can we talk about how bad Pikachu is before Thunderbolt? I picked it over Voltorb because I figured I'd need a way to kill Flying-types pre Cut and I didn't want to use Geodude again but damn, it barely 3HKOs Blue's Pidgeotto in the Nugget Bridge while being 3HKOed back by Quick Attack. I actually taught it Mega Kick to have more firepower because 50 40 BP coming from base 50 Special Attack just doesn't cut it. Obviously don't even try to use it against Misty, if you can even take one hit you can only T-Wave but those defenses are so bad (seriously who saw her Gen I Starmie and thought "It's fine but it could be even deadlier"?).

Edit: Dunno why I said Thunder Shock was 50 BP, I must've mixed it up with Confusion which is clearly better than the usual elemental starter moves.

 

[Basedwell]

Sceptile (in Ruby) - picking a grass starter in a water dominated region is a smart move, right? The existence of ice beam, a move many water types have access to: hiiii

Shedinja (in ruby) - oh that Pokemon has a supereffective move against me!! Oh that Pokemon has a supereffective move against me!! x 100

Kadabra (in Ruby) - fine for the most part, but didn’t help that much in the Elite 4.

Emboar: picking a fire type starter is smart, because there tends to be more water types in game. Except for Unova apparently. I do not like this guy. Bad moveset and slow. His only highlight was using his multi-hit move with hand-slapping looked pervy on the Purrloin or wtv that useless dark kitty was called

That snow fighting crab in scarlet: getting KO-ed before he did anything was such a common theme

Flygon in W2: i trained him for ages because I was trying to figure out if I missed something on the Heatran dungeon, because it seemed like something was supposed to happen. Probably the highest level in my team pre-E4 and didn’t even go with me. He did win me the Drayden fight when I had a very weak-to-Drayden team tho. Probably would have been useless to Iris tho

Jigglypuff: i figured since it was in Smash it was a good Pokemon!! Nope it’s better in smash. This was in Leaf Green my first game

Sneasel:
> be me
> excited to play HGSS because of increased availability of Pokemon from Crystal
> assume Sneasel is available much earlier like Tar
> save spot on my team specifically for Sneasel
> midway through the game I don’t see him so check online
> after checking like 5 times realize he’s only catchable after 16 gym badges
> obtain 16 gym badges
> obtain Sneasel
> realize I can’t evolve him until I play Battle Tower
> figure it’s fine, he’s the posterboy for the Phys/Spec split
> it’s not fine
> Sneasel gets KO-ed by a light breeze one too many times
> I replace him with Snorlax for Red

 

[pika pal]

One issue I run into constantly with running Grass Types (Starter runs in Gen 2, 4, 5, and 7, as well as team members in other games like XY Venusaur or Hoppip/Seedot in XD) is that their coverage is absolutely abysmal for in-game purposes. Namely I don't think Grass has a single 2-type combination that achieves neutral coverage against most in-game encounters; type combos with PERFECT neutrality (even just against the chart, nevermind specific Pokemon) are rare, but I swear every 2-type combo I can think of with Grass gets walled by at least 2 Mono-types or more. Combined with their often middling offensive stats, it makes it very hard for them to punch through more than maybe 1 or 2 members of an opponent's team even when it's a SE favored match-up because they can run into a secondary Resist (EX: Juan's Kingdra or Clay's Excadrill), often against the Ace which employs something for that specific purpose.

Breloom is the only Grass-Type I've had a positive experience running in-game because SV lets you use Rock Tomb early to compliment its STABs (nails Bug and Flying type resistances), but even then that was showing some underwhelming power by late game since I used an early-raid catch with Rock Tera and Technician isn't available until post-game via Ability Patches or 5*+ raids.

 

[Basedwell]

Tbh grass and flying both suffer from a great resistance (water) and immunity (ground) being limited by those types often having good ways to hit back for SE damage (ice beam and rock slide/stone edge). That’s not to say they don’t still come in handy, but you need to take that into account

 

[Codraroll]

Grass's identity as the disruptive toolbox type is a) what I really like about it and b) increasingly at odds with the design philosophy of single-player Pokemon. With Totem Pokemon+Ultra Necrozma as pretty much the sole exception, the modern games tend to discourage the player from using slower strategies based around passive damage or debuffs. You probably won't find yourself consistently underlevelled in the newer games without deliberately handicapping yourself, so why bother with any strategy beyond 'STAB+coverage'? Supermechanics have contributed too, by always favouring the flashier, more offensive use cases, both in terms of NPC usage and general competitive utility (Dynamax in particular completely removes your ability to use unique non-damaging move effects).

Power creep also makes things tricky. When offensive threats are so strong, it becomes harder to justify using Grass's toolbox for any purpose besides enabling a sweeper (which is just a different flavour of offence). However, it's very difficult to make disruptive/utility moves strong enough to compete as a separate strategy without also making them deeply unpleasant and restrictive to play against (which is probably why Smeargle is still our fastest Spore user).

This has always been the case, I think. As the games all consist of long strings of relatively short battles, the whole disruptive/utility playstyle itself becomes inferior to the "just hit it" playstyle. For instance, you may win most battles by taking three turns to set up a sick Ingrain + Poison Powder + Leech Seed combo, then letting it play out over the next five turns; but in very many cases, you can achieve the exact same outcome much faster just by using a strong Pokémon and clicking Thunderbolt. Then you win the battle in one turn, and don't need any healing afterwards.

As victory in battles is the fastest way to earn EXP, strong offensive Pokémon level up much faster and easier than strong defensive Pokémon. Heck, even *weak* offensive Pokémon will do better than strong defensive ones. Hence, players are incentivised not to play to the primary strengths of defensive or utility Pokémon, but instead slap offensive moves on them so they can gain some EXP. I've used Rock Slide on Probopass and Acrobatics on Jumpluff, because it's the easiest way for these cool Pokémon to contribute to my team, even though they've got Attack on par with Delibird and Venonat. Their defensive or disruptive utility is great in theory, but so inefficient as to become pretty much useless in-game, compared to just slugging it out with STAB moves. That is rather disappointing.

Of course, now shared EXP has become the norm, but fact still remains that strong offensive Pokémon is the fastest way to earn it. The result is that the strong defensive Pokémon now can keep up with the rest of the party, at the cost of not actually participating in any battles. You've got them on your team, but they hardly ever *do* anything. Maybe except for the few battles that are difficult enough to actually warrant a good strategy, but those are really rare. And even there, your primary teammates can usually plow through regardless.

At least in Doubles gameplay, there is value in having a support 'mon on the field, to set up favourable field conditions and sponge attacks. But the games haven't had a lot of Double battles during the main story since the spin-off games on the GameCube. Indigo Disk was a breath of fresh air in that regard, though.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

At least in Doubles gameplay, there is value in having a support 'mon on the field, to set up favourable field conditions and sponge attacks. But the games haven't had a lot of Double battles during the main story since the spin-off games on the GameCube. Indigo Disk was a breath of fresh air in that regard, though.

I was going to say this. Jumpluff in XD is a terrible fighter, but it's an exceptionally good support mon since it's fast and can incapacitate opponents with sleep and paralysis (doubly helpful if you're trying to snag something) and the fact it can't KO anything doesn't really matter if it's got a partner which can get the job done and it still gets experience from the fight. It still makes battles slow, but it's much less of a slog than it would be raising a Jumpluff in a game with 99% single battles where each opponent would take around 10 turns to bring down.

 

[DaRotomMachine]

In Pokemon Red Bulbasaur kinda stinks imo. It's good for the first two gym battles, yeah, but getting there in the first place is a struggle if you only use Bulbasaur, at least when I play it. There are SO MANY PIDGEYS and the only thing Bulbasaur can do to them is Tackle early game. Sure you can leech seed but Pidgey is gonna out damage you while you heal. Plus Pidgeys have SAND ATTACK. It's even worse because Zubat is also a thing. Bulbasaur is weak to Bug in Gen 1 and ALL ZUBATS HAVE LEECH LIFE!! There are also so many Grass-Poison types that Bulbasaur can only use tackle to Ko. Also Bulbasaur doesn't even have good moves, it's only moves before evolving into venusaur are Tackle, Leech Seed, Growl and Vine Whip (Which only had 10 PP for some reason?)

 

[pe5e]

I will also talk about some disappointing mons from Hoenn. I already talked about them in detail in my Emerald playthrough series thread, so I keep it short.

Ludicolo:
You would think this Pokemon is amazing. Water / Grass in the Water region of Hoenn? Sounds great. So where is the Water Stone to get Ludicolo? Oh, in locations that you only can get to after defeating the 7th gym? And Lombre is hot garbage for 80% of the game? A Water type that loses to the Fire gym and Ludicolo is the only Grass type that doesn't want to use Sunny Day + Solar Beam. So 8 PP Giga Drain it is? Nice, great, just fantastic. God I hate this Pokemon. WHY?

Lanturn:
Another disappointing Water typ with amazing typing for the region and also a great movepool. But it comes insanely late and its stats are just unexceptable for a late game Pokemon. Even its high base power STAB attacks just bounce of even super effective targets. It is so unfortunate. If it came earlier, then EVs could at least patch up its weak stats somewhat. Sadly, in Emerald it just doesn't do very much anymore, even against Pokemon you would think it would fare better like Milotic.

Flygon:
This investment Pokemon is a scam. Trappinch has serious issues because its only usable Ground STAB before evolving is the unusable Sand Tomb. So you have to invest your valuable Dig TM. And aside from its good attack, its other stats are awful. It is the slowest Pokemon in the game. Drag it along for 15 levels and you get Vibrava, which is somehow worse?? It LOSES attack on evolution. It gains average speed but its other stats are still terrible. Good luck with that weak Dragon Breath that you got upon evolution coming from 50 base special attack. This thing can't do anything. Pump it full with more EXP until level 45! until you finally get Flygon. Who is really underwhelming for the effort required to get it. No Earthquake via level up, so you need to spend that important TM as well, along with maybe two other relevant TMs in Dragon Claw and Fire Blast / Flamethrower. And then you have a final evolution that has the same base attack stat as its first stage evolution. Then you can dish out those 100 base attack STAB Earthquakes that you could have clicked with Sandslash who has the same attack stat about 20 levels earlier and can be caught in the same location. But watch out! Flygon can also throw out some non-STAB special attacks from 80 base special attack. Uahh, scary! Yeah, this thing just so underdelivers for the amount of stuff you have to invest into it. Also a pain to train until Flygon.

Shedinja:
I will never understand how Nuzlockers praise this thing to high heavens when it is literal deadweight for most of the game. The one or two tough trainer Pokemon it can beat 1v1 are not worth it compared to its uselessness everywhere else. This thing just explodes from everything and even when it walls the enemy Pokemon, it still isn't that good because its speed sucks and its attack is only okay. You will have to use Swords Dance to get threatening but will have to run at the first sign of any Pokemon coming in that might have a single attack that can hit it, including status moves like Confuse Ray or Leech Seed. Not to mention what a pain it is to getting it in the first place. Nincada is a heaver exp investment than Magikarp and about as useless before it evolves. For Shedinja to get Swords Dance you even have to delay its evolution by 5 levels. Ugh. The old statement just still holds true. Being invincible alone doesn't win battles. And Shedinja is not even very good at being unkillable.

There are others in Emerald that are also bad but with them you kind of expect it (you know mostly because of bad stats) but these above just trick you into thinking they can actually contribute in a meaningful way.

I don’t think every type needs a good offensive move with no drawbacks or there’s nothing that really differentiates types anymore.

I don't know about that one.

Not every Pokemon needs to have access to an Earthquake clone but I think a 70 base power STAB move should ideally be available to prettey much any Pokemon, no matter what type or if it is an offensive or defensive Pokemon. One of the main problems of Pokemon that end up as being one of the worst available options, is that they simply can't deal damage in a reasonable manner. Even if the Pokemon is defensive, it would still like to have a decent STAB move to help its status moves chip down the enemy faster. I always think it is an embarrassment when you have to resort to generic non-STAB staple moves with TMs instead of STAB moves. Not for coverage but because the Pokemon just doesn't have any stronger option for dealing damage.

I don't think the problem with types becoming too similar in play patterns really exists as today we pretty much have the situation where most Pokemon have solid STAB moves available and none of that really manifested itself.

Keep in mind that I'm just going off paper here, since I've never played Gen 5, but even without Glare and Contrary, you've still got great speed and dual screens, with options for Leech Seed, Coil, and Growth on the side. Seems like pretty good synergy with Work Up Simipour (or Swords Dance Excadrill if you wanna be optimal I guess)

The problem with Serperior is that its offensive movepool is insanely barren. You obviously have Leaf Blade but then you have Return, and that is pretty much it. Coil and its high speed save it a lot but it often needs to set up a ton to do anything since teams are less of a joke in gen 5. Leech Seed is its only good utility move too. The rest is just okay. You really wish it had some kind of status move.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

The problem with Serperior is that its offensive movepool is insanely barren. You obviously have Leaf Blade but then you have Return, and that is pretty much it. Coil and its high speed save it a lot but it often needs to set up a ton to do anything since teams are less of a joke in gen 5. Leech Seed is its only good utility move too. The rest is just okay. You really wish it had some kind of status move.

You get screens at the same time as you get Return, at least in BW. It's also the second fastest dual screen setter just barely after Swoobat, who's way frailer and also a friendship evolution which are just kinda annoying.

Choosing Serperior also means being given Simipour, who seems like they'd be quite good. You got good speed, Work Up, and Scald, and the screens patch up your poor bulk. That alone takes care of most things, and the few things it doesn't, it has Grass Knot, Acrobatics, and Blizzard to get past (and I guess Shadow Claw for specifically Jellicent). Especially nice that since those are all TMs, they can be swapped around endlessly to suite whatever boss you're up against.