the main difference is that, the more tournaments, the stronger the competition, cause more tournaments means that less of the top people of each tournament actually can progress, iirc it's like what? 2 people per tournament actually move on in Japan? Where as in the US it was like the top eight or sixteen on each side during the Showdown, there was a huge safety net for us.
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Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!
- Thread starter POKEMONBATTLEBRAIN
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I have an idea (An idea) of when the Japanese tournaments will start. In Japan, their PokeWalker event area (Champs Road) is being given out at a "Battle Challenge" happening across Japan from October 17th to late-November/early-December. These could very well be their VGC 47 Prefecture (Stage 1) tournaments. Or it could be disappointing and just be the Japanese equivalent of Battle Roads for the TCG...
November 6 to March 23 seems to be Round 1 qualifiers
http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/wcs0910/site/
Edit: It might also be registration dates. I'm in a hurry and can't translate the whole site. There's reference to some regional tournaments in March-April.
http://www.pokemon.co.jp/special/wcs0910/site/
Edit: It might also be registration dates. I'm in a hurry and can't translate the whole site. There's reference to some regional tournaments in March-April.
It was Top 4 Regionals get invites to Nationals. Of the 128 players in nationals, they were divided into groups of 32. The top 4 of each group advanced to Worlds.
Pretty sure there were 6 Japanese guys there. However 4 of them did extremely well while 2 came towards the bottom of the tables. Maybe the other 2 were sort of wildcard guys, the top 4 being those champions? How did that work out?
IIRC at Worlds there were supposed to be 8 Japanese, 16 Americans, and 6 Europeans there for a total of 30 competitors. For some reason though, only 6 Japanese showed up, and that made the total to 28 players. Why they didn't just make it 32 in the first place, I don't know, but I'd guess that since it's not bracketing with single or double elimination, it doesn't matter as much whether it's an odd or even amount of players.
For the Japanese dates, I think I saw that it's from Oct. 17 through December 27th, with one stop each weekend or two. I'll go try and find that again.
For the Japanese dates, I think I saw that it's from Oct. 17 through December 27th, with one stop each weekend or two. I'll go try and find that again.
I have no idea what the "main" Japanese forums are, so I can't help you there lol. In fact I hadn't even heard about the ones you posted.
What you may be talking about is Location Analysis:
http://www.spss.com/vertical_markets/retail/location_analysis.htm
The same methods that are used to determine where stores should be located can be used to determine where events can / should be held.
Ideally, registrants' information would be linked back to the MyNintendo / Club Mario accounts, so that Nintendo can determine not only where the greatest NUMBER of people are, but where their most profitable customers are that also own and have registered Pokemon games and are most engaged with the brand. But I have a feeling that, since Nintendo has farmed the task of setting up the championships to the card people, they have not yet seen this as a strategic option in customer retention / lifetime value building.
It may also be the case that they have limited interaction with the Pokemon brand, but given the brand's prominence in the Nintendo World Store itself in NYC, I would tend to doubt this. What you have is a strategic marketing opportunity that Reggie Fils-Aime and his crew have not yet leveraged, from a database analytics perspective.
Thing is, Nintendo is not the one setting up these tournaments; they do nothing with the Pokemon VGC and TCG. It is all "The Pokemon Company International". So, linking to MyNintendo accounts/etc will not work as well as hoped. Plus, why would having information on which games people buy help tournaments? This really only is data from major retailers and not if people buy the games used or second hand. It would be completely outrageous IMO if something like priority was given to people with more games registered since sometimes those reg. #s just get lost in the trash when you open a game and you don't even realize it.
On the subject of the tournament dates, the ones I posted earlier are correct, there is one this weekend and then one every weekend or two after that until late December. So if we are lucky we might get some finals videos from them. :)
On the subject of the tournament dates, the ones I posted earlier are correct, there is one this weekend and then one every weekend or two after that until late December. So if we are lucky we might get some finals videos from them. :)
It will not help tournaments, from your perspective.
It will help Nintendo make more money through promo lift and customer retention.
I'm trying to point out that, if someone were to do complex database analytics to determine how many tournament locations there should be and where they should be held, there will most likely need to be a financial incentive. Why would they spend money on analytics if there isn't money to be made?
Financial incentive is tied back to who buys the games, and how much money they spend on the brand in general. This could also be cards and other items like plush toys or whatever, but the games are some of the best-selling games on Nintendo systems. Seriously - would some of us even own a Nintendo system if it weren't for Pokemon? How many people who buy a console and own a Pokemon game (or two) also go on to buy other games? Are the people who buy (and register) Pokemon games more loyal than customers who don't (e.g., did they stick with Nintendo during the lean "Gamecube" years when the big N was in last place during the "console wars")? I would be willing to bet a not-insignificant amount of money that Nintendo is asking - and using data to answer - these questions. If Nintendo is indeed just handing off the tournaments to card-game people entirely (and I don't think they are, if they give out promo downloads like the Life Orb Milotic), then they are missing a marketing opportunity, and I don't think they're likely to do that.
The place where that is kept track of (systems and games) on a per-customer basis is the MyNintendo accounts. This can be linked back to demographics (rented from Dun & Bradstreet or some other data clearing house) - average household income, how many kids, how much discretionary income, home-ownership rates, level of education, and so forth.
This DOES work for Nintendo. It would not in any way, shape, or form be "outrageous" to place tournaments based on the number of registered games - companies exist to make money, not to do charity, and Nintendo more than most. Seriously, why do you think they started doing product registration in the first place? At this point, the tournaments are purposeful for the game makers and publishers largely insofar as it builds the brand and encourages future product loyalty and increased sales. There is no registration fee; the tournaments are not self-supporting. If they did institute a fee, this would change the entire equation - but right now, this means they need to make money elsewhere (i.e., on you buying more games). Your entry fee is, in effect, the game that you buy - buy the game and you, too, could become the next World Champion! The reason you even have Pokemon tournaments and not "Mega Man Battle Network" tournaments is because of the popularity (and sales) of Pokemon. It's entirely plausible that they have done something like see where the greatest concentration of people who own Diamond + Pearl + Platinum is located and thought to themselves: "let's keep these people involved with the brand, because this means they're likely to buy not just HeartGold but also SoulSilver."
Shelley Lazarus of Ogilvy & Mather said once at a DMA conference keynote speech: "If it doesn't produce measurable results, it didn't happen." Yes, some of those codes go into the trash, but guess what? The ones that don't belong to the customers that are most engaged with your brand. Those are the ones you care about because they most likely make you the most money - money that you can measure. Those are the people you want to please and encourage with special events - say, a tournament (or a giveaway like the JAA tour or Pokemon Rocks America). Why do you think they have these events a year or so after the games come out, and not immediately? It's probably because they want to keep people engaged with the Pokemon brand in the 2-3 year gap between releases. Platinum is most likely getting its promos right now because HeartGold and SoulSilver are right around the corner, and they want people hyped up for its release. Now that some promos are being given away by WiFi, there's a better-than-average chance that they're attempting to match up IP addresses with locations (a very imprecise business, but it's better than no data at all - and remember that you can link your DS' online identity to your MyNintendo account, which is much more precise) to see where those customers might be, too.
So don't sit there and puzzle over why King of Prussia got a tournament and NYC didn't (or, for that matter, why King of Prussia and not downtown Philly?). NYC gets engaged with the Pokemon brand by the Nintendo World Store, all day, every day. King of Prussia sits right near the wealthy "Main Line" area of Pennsylvania - where people have lots of money to spend on products. Not saying that this was absolutely and necessarily the reason, but it seems like a plausible one given the financial incentive.
It's not just the number of people they want (although I'm sure that's nice) - they want good customers, or people from demographics likely to be such. I'm not sure what the numbers are exactly, but if some marketing person, somewhere, in one of those companies isn't getting the data and figuring it out, they are lying down on the job. Pokemon Company, Nintendo, whoever - and you can bet they collaborate; it's not like they're in competition...Nintendo and Pokemon are in a symbiotic relationship, and the future success of both is intertwined with one another in many ways. Do you seriously think that if GameFreak said to Nintendo "we'd like to see something like X in your next hand-held console," Nintendo wouldn't sit up and pay attention? For instance: did any other game even use the IR port on the Game Boy Color besides Gold / Silver?
I am sure that, at the very least, they have a bunch of stats on all the events they've run in the last five years at the various locations: how many people came, how many promos they gave out, etc. One of the big reasons they may give out only one promo Pokemon per cartridge is the fact that they can then measure how many cartridges out there are still being used, and they have estimates on how many people who own one cartridge (and continue to use it, vs. people who sell it back to Gamestop like you indicated) are likely to go on and buy the next game in the series.
The Pokemon franchise, with its promo Pokemon and events and all that, is a database marketer's dream come true. Or did you think there was some other reason why the one-per-generation promo characters from gens 1 & 2 jumped to 2 for Gen 3 and what...three for Gen 4? How many copies of Pokemon Ranch do you think they sold just because you could get Mew? Or how about this one: why don't they let you download a Mew or Celebi for RBY/GSC now at the Nintendo World Store? I mean, it wouldn't hurt anybody, would it? But they've created a structure where you have to buy the games and keep up-to-date with the promos while the games are still near full-price, or you won't be able to complete your Pokedex. You can't buy a Pokemon game used at Gamestop five to ten years after release (when Nintendo doesn't see any of the money) and have access to the full range of fun.
Unless you use a GameShark, and if you do that, then guess what - you run the risk of being disqualified for the tournaments (or banned from the Global Trading System), don't you? Gotcha.
You need to start thinking like a business before you go around saying certain ideas are "outrageous."
It will help Nintendo make more money through promo lift and customer retention.
I'm trying to point out that, if someone were to do complex database analytics to determine how many tournament locations there should be and where they should be held, there will most likely need to be a financial incentive. Why would they spend money on analytics if there isn't money to be made?
Financial incentive is tied back to who buys the games, and how much money they spend on the brand in general. This could also be cards and other items like plush toys or whatever, but the games are some of the best-selling games on Nintendo systems. Seriously - would some of us even own a Nintendo system if it weren't for Pokemon? How many people who buy a console and own a Pokemon game (or two) also go on to buy other games? Are the people who buy (and register) Pokemon games more loyal than customers who don't (e.g., did they stick with Nintendo during the lean "Gamecube" years when the big N was in last place during the "console wars")? I would be willing to bet a not-insignificant amount of money that Nintendo is asking - and using data to answer - these questions. If Nintendo is indeed just handing off the tournaments to card-game people entirely (and I don't think they are, if they give out promo downloads like the Life Orb Milotic), then they are missing a marketing opportunity, and I don't think they're likely to do that.
The place where that is kept track of (systems and games) on a per-customer basis is the MyNintendo accounts. This can be linked back to demographics (rented from Dun & Bradstreet or some other data clearing house) - average household income, how many kids, how much discretionary income, home-ownership rates, level of education, and so forth.
This DOES work for Nintendo. It would not in any way, shape, or form be "outrageous" to place tournaments based on the number of registered games - companies exist to make money, not to do charity, and Nintendo more than most. Seriously, why do you think they started doing product registration in the first place? At this point, the tournaments are purposeful for the game makers and publishers largely insofar as it builds the brand and encourages future product loyalty and increased sales. There is no registration fee; the tournaments are not self-supporting. If they did institute a fee, this would change the entire equation - but right now, this means they need to make money elsewhere (i.e., on you buying more games). Your entry fee is, in effect, the game that you buy - buy the game and you, too, could become the next World Champion! The reason you even have Pokemon tournaments and not "Mega Man Battle Network" tournaments is because of the popularity (and sales) of Pokemon. It's entirely plausible that they have done something like see where the greatest concentration of people who own Diamond + Pearl + Platinum is located and thought to themselves: "let's keep these people involved with the brand, because this means they're likely to buy not just HeartGold but also SoulSilver."
Shelley Lazarus of Ogilvy & Mather said once at a DMA conference keynote speech: "If it doesn't produce measurable results, it didn't happen." Yes, some of those codes go into the trash, but guess what? The ones that don't belong to the customers that are most engaged with your brand. Those are the ones you care about because they most likely make you the most money - money that you can measure. Those are the people you want to please and encourage with special events - say, a tournament (or a giveaway like the JAA tour or Pokemon Rocks America). Why do you think they have these events a year or so after the games come out, and not immediately? It's probably because they want to keep people engaged with the Pokemon brand in the 2-3 year gap between releases. Platinum is most likely getting its promos right now because HeartGold and SoulSilver are right around the corner, and they want people hyped up for its release. Now that some promos are being given away by WiFi, there's a better-than-average chance that they're attempting to match up IP addresses with locations (a very imprecise business, but it's better than no data at all - and remember that you can link your DS' online identity to your MyNintendo account, which is much more precise) to see where those customers might be, too.
So don't sit there and puzzle over why King of Prussia got a tournament and NYC didn't (or, for that matter, why King of Prussia and not downtown Philly?). NYC gets engaged with the Pokemon brand by the Nintendo World Store, all day, every day. King of Prussia sits right near the wealthy "Main Line" area of Pennsylvania - where people have lots of money to spend on products. Not saying that this was absolutely and necessarily the reason, but it seems like a plausible one given the financial incentive.
It's not just the number of people they want (although I'm sure that's nice) - they want good customers, or people from demographics likely to be such. I'm not sure what the numbers are exactly, but if some marketing person, somewhere, in one of those companies isn't getting the data and figuring it out, they are lying down on the job. Pokemon Company, Nintendo, whoever - and you can bet they collaborate; it's not like they're in competition...Nintendo and Pokemon are in a symbiotic relationship, and the future success of both is intertwined with one another in many ways. Do you seriously think that if GameFreak said to Nintendo "we'd like to see something like X in your next hand-held console," Nintendo wouldn't sit up and pay attention? For instance: did any other game even use the IR port on the Game Boy Color besides Gold / Silver?
I am sure that, at the very least, they have a bunch of stats on all the events they've run in the last five years at the various locations: how many people came, how many promos they gave out, etc. One of the big reasons they may give out only one promo Pokemon per cartridge is the fact that they can then measure how many cartridges out there are still being used, and they have estimates on how many people who own one cartridge (and continue to use it, vs. people who sell it back to Gamestop like you indicated) are likely to go on and buy the next game in the series.
The Pokemon franchise, with its promo Pokemon and events and all that, is a database marketer's dream come true. Or did you think there was some other reason why the one-per-generation promo characters from gens 1 & 2 jumped to 2 for Gen 3 and what...three for Gen 4? How many copies of Pokemon Ranch do you think they sold just because you could get Mew? Or how about this one: why don't they let you download a Mew or Celebi for RBY/GSC now at the Nintendo World Store? I mean, it wouldn't hurt anybody, would it? But they've created a structure where you have to buy the games and keep up-to-date with the promos while the games are still near full-price, or you won't be able to complete your Pokedex. You can't buy a Pokemon game used at Gamestop five to ten years after release (when Nintendo doesn't see any of the money) and have access to the full range of fun.
Unless you use a GameShark, and if you do that, then guess what - you run the risk of being disqualified for the tournaments (or banned from the Global Trading System), don't you? Gotcha.
You need to start thinking like a business before you go around saying certain ideas are "outrageous."
Hi, I just wanted to point out that I have owned 13 handheld pokemon games (never had LeafGreen) and have never once registered one of my games. In fact, I don't even know how to register a game. I consider myself a loyal customer and a fan of the Pokemon brand, but just because I don't register my game (just as millions of others in the world don't register their games) doesn't mean my money is worth less than the money of someone who does register their games.
Well, maybe you need to start thinking like a tournament player. ;) Ok, aside from the mudslinging, what I meant when I said "outrageous" was giving priority registration to those who had bought more games and bothered to register them. Why wouldn't that be outrageous? Because somebody saved a piece of paper to put a code in online (just so Nintendo can have more marketing data) makes them better than me and more worthy of a tournament spot? Because somebody had more money than I did to buy more games and therefore more codes to register? No, giving out priority tournament registration/bracketing/etc to those who have bought more games is a terrible and outrageous idea for the players and TPCi hosts alike.
If I went to a tournament and when I registered they told me "sorry, you don't get in, all the other spots go to the other people who bought more games than you and registered them" when there is a very good chance that I am a better battler than most or all of them(which is the entire point of a pokemon tournament, to see who is the best battler), I would be extremely angry and I know I wouldn't be the only one. That would be worse than the lottery for picking registrants, what was used this past year in case you weren't aware. Of course there is a chance that not all of the spots would be given to those who had bought both games, but then it'd still be like the lottery for choosing who gets the leftovers, and that is just like the lottery except worse because of the lowered chances of getting picked.
I'm not denying that there's a chance that Nintendo and TPCi talk with each other about game sales data, so there wasn't really a need for a 8-9 paragraph response on that, lol. I'm sure Nintendo and TPCi talk about the general demographic of the players, the atmosphere of tournaments, where they come from, etc. Determining stops is most likely based on general population, and that is why a few people wondered why LA or NYC didn't get stops, yet San Fran + Philly did. The Pokemon VGC is still in it's infancy though, so that will have a good chance at being remedied in the upcoming years.
If I went to a tournament and when I registered they told me "sorry, you don't get in, all the other spots go to the other people who bought more games than you and registered them" when there is a very good chance that I am a better battler than most or all of them(which is the entire point of a pokemon tournament, to see who is the best battler), I would be extremely angry and I know I wouldn't be the only one. That would be worse than the lottery for picking registrants, what was used this past year in case you weren't aware. Of course there is a chance that not all of the spots would be given to those who had bought both games, but then it'd still be like the lottery for choosing who gets the leftovers, and that is just like the lottery except worse because of the lowered chances of getting picked.
I'm not denying that there's a chance that Nintendo and TPCi talk with each other about game sales data, so there wasn't really a need for a 8-9 paragraph response on that, lol. I'm sure Nintendo and TPCi talk about the general demographic of the players, the atmosphere of tournaments, where they come from, etc. Determining stops is most likely based on general population, and that is why a few people wondered why LA or NYC didn't get stops, yet San Fran + Philly did. The Pokemon VGC is still in it's infancy though, so that will have a good chance at being remedied in the upcoming years.
they could just be testing out different hotspots each year, to see how many people actually participate in each region, since as Pokemonbattlebrain said, the VGC is still in its infancy, it's only been two years, it's not like they're going to just start up a tournament and place each one in the best areas right off the bat, they need to find those spots to begin with, although I'd think it would be better if they just spread it out more instead of holding so few >_>
They should have Nationals in New York next year.
How can you say that when the dates and locations have yet to be released?
Prolly just frustration over last year dra.
We're still talking about two different things, to some degree. I'm not saying that they deny registration to people on the online registration based on any data; this would be odd (but not unthinkable these days - remember when Sprint told a bunch of people they didn't want their business any more and to take a hike?). And yes, I'm quite aware of how they chose players this past year. I'm saying that they may select tournament locations based on data other than registrants' zip codes. It is quite a mistake to assume that they are spending tens of thousands of dollars to put on a tournament merely for the purpose of satisfying their curiosity regarding who is the best battler - they are spending that money to sell more Pokemon games. They are holding a competition so that you have fun competing, and by having fun competing will buy their next game. If GameFreak, for some inexplicable reason, shut down and would no longer be producing Pokemon games, and there would be no future Pokemon games by Nintendo or anyone else, there would be no organized tournaments because there would be no future sales of the product.
The original post talked about keeping a record of last year's registrants' zip codes to find out where most of the registrants are from, and potentially hold tournaments closer to the registrants so that more people can attend.
I'm saying that they are more likely to choose tournament locations based on market value, customer engagement, and brand building - not just based on where previous registrants are from. Population size is just one aspect of that; other factors like income level and the number of people who have actually bought and registered games in that geographic area is probably another. They want a lot of people to attend, but they would much rather a lot of likely customers attend than a lot of random people.
So yes - people in a different area buying more games and registering them (when you or other people in your area didn't) DOES make them more "worthy" of a tournament location than you, from a business perspective - and Pokemon is big business. It is not "just a piece of paper" to them, or they would not bother to print them and include them with the games, and set up a website to receive those codes. I am sure that Nintendo wants you to have fun, but they will care more about your fun if your money has a better chance of finding its way into their pockets in the future (especially since tournaments are free to the players). Game registration means that they can, to a certain degree, count on your future purchase of their products, and they want to do everything they can (including holding events) to increase those chances.
People who buy games and don't register may be loyal, but they have no way of KNOWING (using predictive analytics) you'll be loyal - they can only make decisions based on what they know (viz., data). For all they know, the 13 games that you own may belong to you and 12 other, different people who all have a GBA / DS and didn't buy the games. They probably use registered data to extrapolate or infer educated guesses about those who didn't register. It's the old proverb of "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." You may be the two in the bush, but the person who registered is the one "in the hand" (or 62.3% in the hand, or whatever the analytics say). So yes - the money of those who do not register IS worth less than the money of those who do, in some sense...because it's money you can't necessarily count on in the future.
Just an FYI, in case this wasn't already patently obvious: database marketing is what I do for a profession. So while I can't say precisely what Nintendo or the Pokemon Company is or is not doing, or how exactly they make their decisions, I can say what industry standard would say that they do and how they make their decisions. I'm not saying this to make you upset or anything - it's just the way businesses work, so you can understand why perhaps a place like King of Prussia gets a tournament but NYC doesn't. Nintendo or The Pokemon Company doesn't like or hate any particular region or anything like that, and they probably don't particularly care about discovering who the best competitive player in the world is per se; they don't care if that player is young, old, or of Asian or American nationality (as long as their money is green). They just want to do what's best for business. They have to put food on the table (and dollars/yen in the bank) just like anyone else.
"Tessio:Tell Mike it was only business, I always liked him.
Hagen: He understands that."
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