[Question]The Ubers metagame

#1
How does the Uber game evolve and stay competitive since there are rarely any tier shifts? What makes it so special that people would move from OU or UU to Ubers?
 
#2
The Uber metagame evolves when someone discovers a new pokemon/set that can be used or when there is a shift of usage. We like this metagame since having command over broken beasts is so fun. In addition, you don't have to deal with bans.
 

Jibaku

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#3
It evolves through ideas within the metagame itself as well as movepool changes.

Example:
Wobbuffet was a very largely overlooked Pokemon for about two years, but now it is almost a staple on any team due to its ability to murder Choice Scarfers and provide "free set up". Giratina-O saw little use during its introduction, but it rose in usage as it is a reliable spin blocker and could break stall. People eventually began to maximize forretress' special defense EV and ran Payback to deal with it. HGSS gave Ho-oh Brave Bird and its usage spiked, as well as Forretress's. Spinblocking became a bigger deal because Ho-oh is an absolute monster with rocks gone, and thus Giratina-O's usage spiked again. Fed up with not being able to get past Forretress, people began to use HP Fire on it, and also began to move to the mixed set due to Shadow Sneak and overall versatility.

The Uber metagame is special because it is centralized. When the centralization factor is huge it allows he metagame to continue shifting as people to focus on a few Pokemon and ignore other potentially dangerous Pokemon.
 
#5
no no not quite.
New moves can shift this meta as well.
Some examples are...hmmmm plat's scizor with bp which is one of the most used in UBERS or ho-oh who just obtained its new move brave bird and people are also exploiting that move quite a bit at the moment.
 
#6
Well I meant in terms of strictly ubers. I didn't really think about OUs in ubers though.

Do they affect the Uber game that much?
 
#7
Even if no one is discovering new sets or strategies, the metagame would still be changing. An example is shifts in player preferences. If stall becomes popular, as it is now, you can bet that things like ScarfKia and ScarfChomp will fall in usage because Scarfers aren't good against stall. Because these guys are falling in usage and stall teams are rising in usage, things like MixPalkia and SpecsOgre or even MixOgre will rise in popularity. Then stall declines, and players decide to once again use tools to beat offense like the aforementioned ScarfChomp.
 
#8
To address your question about OUs in Ubers, their usage can definitely affect the metagame. Just look at things like Ludicolo, Parasect, Starmie, Heatran, Metagross, Scizor, Bronzong, Skarmory, Forretress, and Salamence. Hell, even Cresselia and Registeel can work here. I also recall someone testing Abomasnow in Ubers. Also, there might be a good Smeargle set - to bad FEAR won't work with all these taunters and residual damage.
 
#9
Forry, scizor, and blissey are all in the top 20 most used pokemon in ubers. Uber stall, which is quite common i believe has a core that features forretress and blissey.

Lucario is also a very good sweeper with wob support, and is actually more effective at taking out stall teams that rayquaza because he can OHKO groudon with SD+LO CC.

People can also used niche pokemon like registeel, metagross, ludicolo, or jumpluff for an unexpected way to counter some very powerful threats in the uber metagame.
 
#10
The Uber metagame doesn't evolve that much, really, which is why I find it interesting. I'm always on the prow, looking to create a new and unseen moveset. This is the sort of mindset many Uber battlers are in, IMO, and it keeps the metagame striving, and unpredictable.
 
#11
The Uber metagame doesn't evolve that much, really, which is why I find it interesting. I'm always on the prow, looking to create a new and unseen moveset. This is the sort of mindset many Uber battlers are in, IMO, and it keeps the metagame striving, and unpredictable.
I would characterize the bulk of Ubers metagame development as a cycle between stallish and offensive phases. Right now, we are in a stallish phaze, as evidenced by the fact that Forretress is on 25% of all teams, and that Garchomp usage has plummeted.
 
#12
The irony is that there are pokemon viable in Ubers that wouldn't be as successful in OU.
I think it has to do with the fact that there are some *very* effective support Pokemon (eg. Wobuffet, Kyogre, Groudon) and a large number of Psychic and Dragon types with shared weaknesses.
So the absence of bans and the ability for the metagame to absorb any Pokemon that can abuse either the 'slipstream' of Uber support pokemon or exploit recurring weaknesses grants it a surprising amount of dynamism.
I admit being surprised at just how interesting Uber play can be.
 
#14
mtr, what would you say drives those cycles?
I have no concrete reasons, but a number of hypotheses.

1) Publicity
Jibaku's Rising from the Storms Team is a classic example of this. Giratina-O usage has skyrocketed while only the most conservative players employ Giratina on their stall teams any more. Stallish play in general is at a high point, mainly because the RMT was an inspiration to many.

2) Players
Ubers doesn't have as many players as other tiers, so every individual player is important in his own right. If stall-loving players such as Uchiha, myself, and others play a lot on the ladder, stall play will rise. If we're sucking in Physics class and need to drop Pokemon for a bit, stall play will fall.

3) Inertia
Once the cycles are in place, they're hard to stop. I go back to what I said earlier, with a few edits.
If stall becomes popular, as it is now, you can bet that things like ScarfKia and ScarfChomp will fall in usage because Scarfers aren't good against stall. Because these guys are falling in usage and stall teams are rising in usage, things like MixPalkia and SpecsOgre or even MixOgre will rise in popularity. Then stall declines, and offensive play rises. Then players decide to once again use tools to beat offense like the aforementioned ScarfChomp. Then those tools become popular and stall begins to rise...
Naturally, things are more complicated than this, but this is a distilled version.

There are many more reasons, like HGSS and Plat move tutors, the discovery of things like Jumpluff, but these are the reasons that the cycles occur.
 
#15
I guess Ubers is the least used tier. I think it's very important to find something game breaking in this tier, like a new moveset. Every pokemon is usable here, so I think that's possible. Besides, when Arceus is usable again, Ubers metagame will change I think. (Arceus is still banned right?)
 

shrang

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#16
I guess Ubers is the least used tier. I think it's very important to find something game breaking in this tier, like a new moveset. Every pokemon is usable here, so I think that's possible. Besides, when Arceus is usable again, Ubers metagame will change I think. (Arceus is still banned right?)
Yes, Arceus is still banned. Obviously, when he is allowed, there will be a massive change. It'll be like adding 17 new Pokemon into the tier (Since he can change type), each with possibly 2-5 sets each.
 
#17
>_____________>

Tier shifts are not something OU has because we want to have them. The fact that we are testing things inherently means that we have not reached the "ideal game conditions."

. . . albeit, it looks like Gen 5 will be out long before we "sort out" the suspects for gen 4's meta (which will probably become extinct after gen 5 comes out, lol).

@Arceus-- there'll be massive change anyway since Gen 5 might come out before Smogon releases Arceus into Ubers. lol
 
#18
Doesnt Arceus have a counter for all of its movesets?
The most commom Arceus moveset i've ever seen was that irritating Insect Plate moveset because all it would do would spam the shit out of judgement until it ran out of PP and then switch to either Scarf-Palkia or Specs-Kyogre!!!

The only reason it is actually banned is because of its ridiculous unpredictability
and the sheer power of its sets!!!!


P.S (Is their a reason I have never seen a Stall Arceus before?)
 

Theorymon

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#19
Doesnt Arceus have a counter for all of its movesets?
The most commom Arceus moveset i've ever seen was that irritating Insect Plate moveset because all it would do would spam the shit out of judgement until it ran out of PP and then switch to either Scarf-Palkia or Specs-Kyogre!!!

The only reason it is actually banned is because of its ridiculous unpredictability
and the sheer power of its sets!!!!


P.S (Is their a reason I have never seen a Stall Arceus before?)
Actually, the reason Arceus is banned is because Shoddy is unable to implement its limitations on the ladder (the limitations being that Arceus can only have a maximum of 100 evs per stat). If Arceus is released at a level below 100 or Shoddy 2 comes out, it will not be banned in Ubers.
 
#20
Actually, the reason Arceus is banned is because Shoddy is unable to implement its limitations on the ladder (the limitations being that Arceus can only have a maximum of 100 evs per stat). If Arceus is released at a level below 100 or Shoddy 2 comes out, it will not be banned in Ubers.
Does the recent Arceus event in the UK not allow you to acquire a level 80 Arceus? I'm sure I've seen something on another server about them now allowing Arceus because it's possible to acquire one below level 100.
Anyway I'm not 100% sure on this but I'm pretty confident that this is in fact the case.
 
#22
No, not the movie Arceus. Here in the UK they've been giving out the Blue Flute or whatever it's called in game stores, which lets you legitemately go to the Hall of Origin and battle a level 80 Arceus.
 

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