Yanmega is very strong in the RU tier, I think it should UU but isnt problem for me.
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Rarely Used (RU) Tier
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
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oh, so strong
Is Lumineon viable at all in this tier? With Storm Drain to switch into bulky waters and Substitute to block status, it could possibly become a pretty good special attacker, despite having only base 69 SpA.
Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass
The main (and only advantage) it holds over Gastrodon is its high base speed of 91, which lets it outspeed a lot of RU threats. Crucially, it allows it to completely block status from bulky waters. With Storm Drain activated, it has an effective Special Attack stat of 389, which should be enough. Whilst it doesn't have the amazing power or STAB of Gastrodon, its speed allows it to get two hits on opponents that Gastrodon would only be able to get one on, arguably giving it a small niche. If you're a lunatic, other coverage options include Psybeam, Ominous Wind and Signal Beam.
I suppose the fact that Blastoise gets Roar would make this kind of moot, however. :(
Lumineon @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Grass
The main (and only advantage) it holds over Gastrodon is its high base speed of 91, which lets it outspeed a lot of RU threats. Crucially, it allows it to completely block status from bulky waters. With Storm Drain activated, it has an effective Special Attack stat of 389, which should be enough. Whilst it doesn't have the amazing power or STAB of Gastrodon, its speed allows it to get two hits on opponents that Gastrodon would only be able to get one on, arguably giving it a small niche. If you're a lunatic, other coverage options include Psybeam, Ominous Wind and Signal Beam.
I suppose the fact that Blastoise gets Roar would make this kind of moot, however. :(
Eviolite Bronzor gets 2HKO'd by Specs and can't really do anything back. So as Ferroseed. Cressilia shouldn't even go near Specs. It can't even do anything to LO Speed boost. Priority is unreliable for killing Yanmega, especially speed boost since those usually invest in bulk. (It's worth investing in bulk for speed boost btw) Stealth Rock isn't reliable for killing Yanmega, a lot of Yanmega users use a rapid spinner...or two. (Using Claydol and Blastoise on the same team is actually pretty good with all the super power flying types running around.) And good luck setting Rocks if Yanmega comes out first. And sending something faster then Yanmega isn't a reliable way of killing it at all, they would get KO'd trying to switch in so you'd have to sac something which is revenging not countering.
Both sets have two different counters, one can't be outsped after a few boosts and has investment in bulk usually and has a recovery option (giga drain) while the other just hits extremely hard and barley cares about pokemon resisting it. Only 3 pokemon can counter all of his sets and they have a tad bit of trouble doing it. Two of them lose their effectiveness because they are clerics and one lacks instant recovery and still takes quite a bit from Yanmega's attacks. They all have to dedicate a moveslot to counter him too. Clefable needs fire blast, Lickilicky needs rock slide, and Munchlax needs rock slide. (Unless of course Munchlax wants to rely on body slam's paralysis which is a crappy way of countering Yanmega.) And the worst part is Lickilicky and Clefable don't have a perfect chance of beating Yanmega. If Yanmega happens to use Air Slash Clefable only has a 55% chance of beating Yanmega and Lickilicky 60%. (Because of the nasty air slash flinch and their somewhat low accurcey moves they beat Yanmega with.)
Yanmega has a pretty decent physical defense for a sweeper, his special defense is lacking but the physical defense he has is good enough to survive the few hits that can manage to come his way usually.
Hmmmm, I see what you mean No Luck. I guess I just have better luck with yanmega than with cress. But now I'm running gallade so it shouldn't be a problem. I will admit, Yanmega is a powerhouse on most teams and it does get recognition as being powerful. But also, in every tier there is a mon that is considered "broken". Sometimes, it could be a mon that focuses on weather (Excadrill). But without weather it is something quite underwhelming. In the 4th gen, a ton of OU teams ran scizor which was a common threat to most teams. Heck, Salamence was proving so powerful that it got moved to ubers. But that's just the thing. Every tier has a powerful pokemon that takes a long time to stop. And there will always be the players who think that just because THEY can't beat that certain one, it should be moved up. Every tier has that. And I'm accepting the fact that there's one even in RU. Anyways, I think that's enough of the Yanmega/Cresselia moving to UU talk for now.
jynx is really viable in this tier.
Jynx timid life orb
252 speed 252 spa 4 hp
lovely kiss/hp fire/ice beam/focus blast
Rock types like kabutops cant threaten you because of lovely kiss and focus blast.
I always set up dual screens before sending out jynx though.
Jynx timid life orb
252 speed 252 spa 4 hp
lovely kiss/hp fire/ice beam/focus blast
Rock types like kabutops cant threaten you because of lovely kiss and focus blast.
I always set up dual screens before sending out jynx though.
right...
so we also ignore the fact that the 2 moves you use to deal with Kabutops have 70 Accuracy. :/
Jynx isn't exactly that viable in a tier that stealth rocks are running all over the place and where there a ton of bug, fire, and rock types too. Jynx gets outsped and OHKO'd by a ton of common pokemon and has a lot of trouble getting past quite a few walls. Jynx is also (for the most part) outclassed by Alakazam. Jynx's speed is only decent and it doesn't really have the raw power to back it up (Like Porygon-Z) and it has an awful typing, not to mention almost non existent physical defence and a still not amazing special defence.
The top 10 pokemon have no trouble at all beating Jynx 1 on 1 (Except maybe Porygon-Z, but relying on focus miss to beat it isn't exactly the best way...plus quite a few Porygon-Z are scarfed). (Unless of course it gets to set up a sub which isn't exactly that hard with lovely kiss but then you either lack one STAB or lack a coverage moves)
The top 10 pokemon have no trouble at all beating Jynx 1 on 1 (Except maybe Porygon-Z, but relying on focus miss to beat it isn't exactly the best way...plus quite a few Porygon-Z are scarfed). (Unless of course it gets to set up a sub which isn't exactly that hard with lovely kiss but then you either lack one STAB or lack a coverage moves)
Excuse me good sir, Lovely Kiss has 75% accuracy. Clearly this completely invalidates your criticism of him entirely, especially with Jynx's amazing 272/212 Physical Bulk when Reflect is active.
From personal use, Dragonair isn't even close to a counter to Yanmega. It hardly even checks it. Sure it might survive a hit, but it doesn't pressure Yanmega out while it sits there and KO's you.
Choice Specs Modest Yanmega's Bug Buzzes do 41-49% damage to Eviolite 252 HP/252 +Special Defense Dragonair...meanwhile all Dragonair can do is paralyze it and then either the switch in will get killed (Or weakened and Yanmega successfully crippled 2 pokemon on the opponents team)or Dragonair will have to let itself get defeated. Porygon does survive the hit better but it also can't do much back.
Both Dragonair and Porygon can't even OHKO if they try to attack back at Yanmega. (And yes even at +1 Porygon's Thunderbolt only does about 55-65% damage) Dragonair's fire blast only does 60-71% damage to Yanmega. Yanmega has about a 50% chance to KO Dragonair if Rocks are up before Dragonair gets to status Yanmega. Plus just because you status something doesn't mean you beat it...Yanmega is still incredibly threatening even when paralyzed.
Plus both of those pokemon are very rarely seen in the RU metagame so relying on not so useful and rarely seen pokemon to check Yanmega won't help you much...
Both Dragonair and Porygon can't even OHKO if they try to attack back at Yanmega. (And yes even at +1 Porygon's Thunderbolt only does about 55-65% damage) Dragonair's fire blast only does 60-71% damage to Yanmega. Yanmega has about a 50% chance to KO Dragonair if Rocks are up before Dragonair gets to status Yanmega. Plus just because you status something doesn't mean you beat it...Yanmega is still incredibly threatening even when paralyzed.
Plus both of those pokemon are very rarely seen in the RU metagame so relying on not so useful and rarely seen pokemon to check Yanmega won't help you much...
Yanmega=easy way to kill yanmega.
Hmmmmm.... What about typhlosion as a counter to yanmega? With choice scarf, typhlosion should be able to outspeed speed boost yanny and KO with eruption or fire blast. Now, I'm not very good with calcs. After one speed boost, what will yanny's base speed be boosted to from 95? Cause I'm pretty sure it won't go over typhlosion's base 150 (which is after scarf).
A Scarfed Typhlosion doesn't have the equivalent of base 150 Spe. However, after 1 Speed Boost, it (Yanmega) still gets outsped by Scarf (Timid. I say this because mine is Modest to get more power) Typhlosion. But since most carry Protect, the Yanmega could kill something / attack as Typhlosion switches in, then Protect to get up 2 Speed Boosts and outspeed Typhlosion.
Scarf Typhlosion is a pretty good counter to Yanmega. It just has to avoid being hit by Hidden Power Ground/Rock on the switch and make sure that Stealth Rock is not on the field with Tinted Lens Yanmega.
Speed Boost Yanmega can't OHKO Typhlosion with hidden power and usually investing in bulk is more worthwhile for speed boost. (Since it outspeeds nearly everything at +2 and the bulk comes in handy with surviving priority and other attacks since Speed Boost doesn't have the raw power Tinted Lens has)
So Typhlosion can defeat Tinted Lens Yanmega as long as Stealth rocks aren't on the field and it doesn't switch in on hidden power ground/rock and it can beat any speed boost Yanmega lacking those moves too. (And it has to switch into one of those moves)
A bit risky of a counter but it still works.
Speed Boost Yanmega can't OHKO Typhlosion with hidden power and usually investing in bulk is more worthwhile for speed boost. (Since it outspeeds nearly everything at +2 and the bulk comes in handy with surviving priority and other attacks since Speed Boost doesn't have the raw power Tinted Lens has)
So Typhlosion can defeat Tinted Lens Yanmega as long as Stealth rocks aren't on the field and it doesn't switch in on hidden power ground/rock and it can beat any speed boost Yanmega lacking those moves too. (And it has to switch into one of those moves)
A bit risky of a counter but it still works.
It isn't? Oh darn. Seeing as it has a base 100 speed and scarf boosts speed by half of that, I thought 150 would be it. Wonder where I wen't wrong..... Now see, once a typhlosion begins wreaking havoc with eruption, there's little to stop it. So you would make sure the rocks and resisting type pokemons are off the field. Then you hit with typhlosion. Yanny comes in. It protects and gets one speed boost. You still outspeed and kill with eruption.
You're not accounting for nature and EVs in your calculation. To simulate having a beneficial nature and max EVs, you have to add 50 to the base stat. Thus giving Typhlosion 150 'normalised' speed. Then apply the choice scarf boost which brings it to 225. To find out what speed tier that is equivalent to, simply take 50 away from that to remove the beneficial nature and EVs and you get 175. Thus a Timid Scarf Typhlosion has roughly the equivalent speed of a base 175 speed Pokemon.
Of course that calculation isn't necessary at all because Typhlosion naturally outspeeds Yanmega which would remain the case if both were at +1 given the same EVs... And it is even more unnecessary considering the fact that most Yanmega don't opt to max out speed. And even then a Typhlosion is 2HKOed on the switch by SB and OHKOed by Specs... Typhlosion is not a counter at all, at best it is a revenger and it needs to be healthy to do that.
Of course that calculation isn't necessary at all because Typhlosion naturally outspeeds Yanmega which would remain the case if both were at +1 given the same EVs... And it is even more unnecessary considering the fact that most Yanmega don't opt to max out speed. And even then a Typhlosion is 2HKOed on the switch by SB and OHKOed by Specs... Typhlosion is not a counter at all, at best it is a revenger and it needs to be healthy to do that.
How much Speed does Yanmega need to outspeed most notable threats at +1 and +2?
RU isn't having suspect tests yet, so it won't be till that happens.
Do we know when suspect testing will begin?
And if you're gonna say: "When OU and UU settle down," then when is that going to be?
And if you're gonna say: "When OU and UU settle down," then when is that going to be?
How the hell are we supposed to answer that? OU and UU still have some ridiculous stuff that people think are broken in them, and it could take any amount of time for either tier to finally settle down.
This is from last page (well two pages ago now), so that's the best I can do for you.
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