Resource RBY Simple Question, Simple Answer Thread

[May]

This is a thread for asking generic questions about RBY. This can be anything from asking questions regarding mechanics to "why are Tradebacks banned?". Chances are that if you were intending to make a thread asking something, it actually belongs here.

Some important points to remember when asking questions;

• Be descriptive. The more specific the question, the better: this way we can ensure you get the answer you're looking for.
• Don't request bans, unbans, etc. This also means to not assume anything is banned or is going to be banned when giving your questions or answers. You can ask why a ban has occurred, however.
• Before asking questions about mechanics, it may be worth checking the Mechanics Guide first. Oftentimes, a lot of questions are answered there. Use Ctrl+F and type a keyword or something in and you'll probably find it.
• Check if the question has been asked before. All it takes is a quick keyword search!
• If you're looking to see if something on Pokemon Showdown is a bug, mention it in the RBY & Tradebacks or Stadium bug report threads!

"Where should I start?"
The most common question asked by beginners is where to start learning the tier, and luckily for those, RBYers love to produce resources to aid others in getting into the generation. If you're looking to start with RBY OU, the following resources are considered to be the best for beginners;

• RBY Resource Hub
  • A large spreadsheet compiling almost every RBY Resource ever released. This will give you a deep look at the history of RBY, featuring documents dating back to the late-90s!
• Strategy Dex
  • The RBY Strategy Dex is carefully kept updated by contributors in Past Gens C&C, featuring your standard tiers.
• Mechanics Guide
  • The Bible. If you ever have any questions about how RBY works, this will usually have your answer. Knowing and understanding these mechanics is pivotal to succeeding in the chromatic generation.
• Everything about RBY Speed
  • Contains Speed Tiers, critical hit rates, and other juicy details to help you understand how Speed warps RBY.
• RBY OU Viability Rankings
  • An aggregate VR using top player opinions.
• RBY OU Teambuilding
  • A very basic guide to teambuilding in RBY, produced by Shellnuts.
• RBY OU Openings
  • A guide to the lead metagame by Amaranth.
• RoA Sample Teams
  • Sample teams produced by experienced players are logged here, featuring various RBY formats.

 

[phoopes]

Dugtrio Earthquake vs. Dewgong: 109-129 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
Dugtrio Rock Slide vs. Dewgong: 110-130 (28.7 - 33.9%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO

okay I've been wondering this, why does Rock Slide do slightly more? I thought EQ was 100 base power * 1.5 for STAB = 150, and Rock Slide was 75 * 2 for super effective = 150. Shouldn't they do the exact same damage? Or is there some quirk in STAB calculation or super effective damage calculation that I don't know about? Because I'm assuming the damage calculator is correct

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

I was looking at the damage formula from bulbapedia.

If you would remove the +2 inside of the bracket, both moves would actually the same amound of damage but as it is, right now in one calculation it gets multiplied with 2 (super effective) and in the other with 1.5 (STAB), leading to a damage difference of that one HP.

 

[Gaalil]

I'm new here and wondering about the competitive Rby scene it's funny but I would like to hear from the best players because I can't understand "tournament values" (Rby cup .. Global ch .. Seasonals ect ..) and define the "best". players ". (but don't hesitate to correct me if my question is too stupid or if I'm not in the right place)


1. What is most valuable from a competitive point of view for a high level Rbyer is to finish positive in spl or to win a tournament of the circuit (example 6-3 In Spl? Or Win Rby Summer Seasonals? )
2. What is the opinion of the players who manage to win major tournaments, and succeed in SPL who has the hardest?
3. Basically, what does a player have to do to be respected when it comes to Rby?

 

[Hipmonlee]

Any of those things will get you enough respect.

I think most people consider SPL the most prestigious tournament, personally I much prefer individuals.

Which is harder is probably a tough thing to judge. Winning any individual tournament is probably less likely for any given player than doing well in SPL. You have to be very good, and very lucky. SPL, maybe you just have to be very good. Although you need a bit of luck for that too.

 

[May]

3. Basically, what does a player have to do to be respected when it comes to Rby?

Becoming respected in RBY largely depends on your interactions in the community, in my opinion. I believe competing is by far the accessible method, but community interaction and resource development are surefire ways as well. People like emma, Melanie, and LTG have become well-respected users solely by talking a lot and contributing to "fixtures"; analyses, tournament hosting, and even just driving discussion on various topics. There are many angles to take in establishing yourself, it's just about carving your own path.

I strongly believe that tournaments are unnecessary when it comes to becoming a figure in a community. My friends vapicuno and ausma have become widely respected members of the ADV and SwSh communities respectively, all through their contributions. They hardly play in tournaments at all. Making Pokemon more accessible helps everyone, and as a result, you get the same back. This is also a good way to get badged on Smogon.

I'd recommend participating in the Pokemon Showdown Room and Community Discord to get started, these are the main sources of live chat discussion! From what I've seen, you have a lot of potential, and I'd love to see you around!

 

[Amaranth]

I'm new here and wondering about the competitive Rby scene it's funny but I would like to hear from the best players because I can't understand "tournament values" (Rby cup .. Global ch .. Seasonals ect ..) and define the "best". players ". (but don't hesitate to correct me if my question is too stupid or if I'm not in the right place)


1. What is most valuable from a competitive point of view for a high level Rbyer is to finish positive in spl or to win a tournament of the circuit (example 6-3 In Spl? Or Win Rby Summer Seasonals? )
2. What is the opinion of the players who manage to win major tournaments, and succeed in SPL who has the hardest?
3. Basically, what does a player have to do to be respected when it comes to Rby?

My personal take is that SPL is the pinnacle for a simple reason: all the best players come back for SPL, with very few exceptions. Not all the best players play in any given individual.

If we go back a couple years, there was a time where on pokemonperfect (a separate website from smogon entirely) there would be these monthly individuals with money prizes for the best performers across multiple tournaments. The field was stacked. Anyone could win a single individual with some luck, since it was 32-man single elimination, but getting consistently deep across multiple tournaments was required to get circuit points and therefore money prizes, and only the best of the best could do that. I valued consistent performance across multiple PP individuals above all else.

By comparison, though, the individuals on Smogon currently are a lot more bloated. Many more weaker players join (and I mean many - Winter Seasonal and the ongoing GC are both 128-man), which makes surviving to the late stages more of a matter of "can you shrug off all of these dudes without getting haxed too badly", and it feels less prestigious. As the guy currently holding the GC title I can tell you it doesn't really feel like I had to beat many top players to get there, because many either didn't sign up or got mauled by bad luck before they were able to meet me. It feels like more of an endurance test than anything honestly. You do get some high quality games against high quality opponents once you get to the last two or three rounds, but SPL is high quality opponents almost every week, and PP used to be high quality opponents almost every week for months on end.

So, in terms of game quality, SPL = old school PP individuals >>> modern individuals. In terms of prestige, different people will see things differently, but to me, good SPL performance (this doesn't mean record; there are people who performed horribly and had decent to good records anyway because of variance over 9 games) is the one thing I respect the most, with individuals firmly behind. But you've heard from Hipmonlee that he sees things differently and I'm sure if you were to ask non-mainers for their thoughts they'd reply with something inane like RBY Cup (part of Smogon Classic) as the most prestigious RBY tournament, so it depends really.

PvK's answer is very good if you're looking for respect as a community member, but I feel like the question was specifically about getting respect as a player, which are two different and only tangentially related things.

 

[Ortheore]

Is there any intention of running some version of RBY PL that focuses on the alternate versions of gen 1 rather than lower tiers? i.e:

• RBY
• RBY tradebacks
• Stadium
• Stadium tradebacks

I don't particularly have much of a stake in this since even when I'm not tourbanned I don't really like team tours. I just think it would be pretty cool to see those formats get more representation. I think that in a vacuum there's very little reason to pick one format over the other to be the "main" format so I think the alternate options are more than deserving of regular substantial play.

Of course the prior point only applies in a vacuum, when you consider that gen 1 has been played as RBY sans tradebacks for decades, then it becomes a bit more skewed. I think that RBY tradebacks would be the most appropriate choice if this weren't the case (happy to justify this if requested, but it would be a bit of a tangent), but the differences in merits are marginal and I'm not currently interested in trying to argue that tradebacks should be standard lol, I'm fine with regular RBY

 

[EB0LA]

Is there any intention of running some version of RBY PL that focuses on the alternate versions of gen 1 rather than lower tiers? i.e:

• RBY
• RBY tradebacks
• Stadium
• Stadium tradebacks

I don't particularly have much of a stake in this since even when I'm not tourbanned I don't really like team tours. I just think it would be pretty cool to see those formats get more representation. I think that in a vacuum there's very little reason to pick one format over the other to be the "main" format so I think the alternate options are more than deserving of regular substantial play.

Of course the prior point only applies in a vacuum, when you consider that gen 1 has been played as RBY sans tradebacks for decades, then it becomes a bit more skewed. I think that RBY tradebacks would be the most appropriate choice if this weren't the case (happy to justify this if requested, but it would be a bit of a tangent), but the differences in merits are marginal and I'm not currently interested in trying to argue that tradebacks should be standard lol, I'm fine with regular RBY

1st big factor is a dedicated player pool, that already doesn't play another tier in the said tour.
Tbh I've never even heard anyone mention "Stadium Tradebacks" before so no idea on its popularity at all.
How ever Stadium & Tradebacks are growing in popularity. And I agree it would be sort of unfair to pick 1 over the other.
An idea I had was in similar fashion as there is SPL & SCL. We can mimick that and make a second similar tour to RBYPL with RBYCL for additional RBY tiers.

Similar format, 2x/3x? OU, Stadium OU, Tradebacks OU, ?

Now we can add 1-2 more tiers. I can argue for 2x OU slots vs. 3x in this tour due to there being 2 other relatively similar slots to OU (Stad+TBs).

Now what would be the best added tiers for the remaining 1-2 slots?

I've heard case for LC, Monotype, 1v1, Random Battles... And others can grow popular too over time, such as NFE, MC, etc...

Out of these, ik the RBY Random Battles community is super active & most popular, arguably the most or 2nd most played RBY tier. And would bring much needed hype & attention to such a tour as this. RBY RBs has a very active player base that is a whole separate pool of rbyers from any other tier in RBY. Also they get 0/extremely minimal representation in any tours anywhere on the site. Forced to band together in a side discord server; where it has just been passed around by word of mouth & is now at about 150 users and has hosted over a dozen tours with only the best players as it is "1500+ elo invite only" server...

Possible options:
RBYPL turns to 8 slots:
3x OU, 1x UU, 1x NU, 1x Ubers, 1x Stadium OU, 1x Tradebacks OU
Notes: in this case I don't know if there are enough unique players to fill all these slots comfortably. Also what about PU once NU is finalized, this would mess up the structure, but ofc this 2nd point wouldn't be an issue for at least another good couple years.

We make a 2nd tour with RBYCL
A) 3x OU, 1x Stadium 1x Tradebacks, 1x Random Battles
B) 2x OU, 1x Stadium 1x Tradebacks, 1x Random Battles, 1x "Hybrid Pick"
Hybrid pick = a random tier from a pool of tiers. Possible pool options = LCLv5, LCLv100, MC, NFE, 1v1, Monotype, etc. Not popular enough to warrant their own slot, but can be a mix in option. This would solve issues of tiers competing for a slot as ones gain and fall out of popularity. This "Hybrid pick" could even be rotational from week to week.

Would love to hear other ideas/opinions.

 

[YBW]

100% support Eb0la here in regard to possibly getting random battles in RBYPL or RBYCL. We have a rapidly growing player base in a randbats discord. 80 in June has become 150 today. It is 2nd on the popularity poll in rby room and is the format with most active matches on the ladder. I know many are solely rby randbats players and this would bring greater awareness and participation in these tournaments, possibly introducing and bringing a greater player base to OU, UU, NU & Stadium. We definitely have the playerbase to fill a slot if consideration is possible that would be amazing

 

[emma]

Is there any intention of running some version of RBY PL that focuses on the alternate versions of gen 1 rather than lower tiers? i.e:

• RBY
• RBY tradebacks
• Stadium
• Stadium tradebacks

I don't particularly have much of a stake in this since even when I'm not tourbanned I don't really like team tours. I just think it would be pretty cool to see those formats get more representation. I think that in a vacuum there's very little reason to pick one format over the other to be the "main" format so I think the alternate options are more than deserving of regular substantial play.

Of course the prior point only applies in a vacuum, when you consider that gen 1 has been played as RBY sans tradebacks for decades, then it becomes a bit more skewed. I think that RBY tradebacks would be the most appropriate choice if this weren't the case (happy to justify this if requested, but it would be a bit of a tangent), but the differences in merits are marginal and I'm not currently interested in trying to argue that tradebacks should be standard lol, I'm fine with regular RBY

Right now, there is no plan of hosting a second RBY Team Tournament, but it is something the moderation team can look into. It would definitely have some change of format -- either a RBY CL with other tiers (i.e. Tradebacks) or some form of RBY World Cup -- to mix it up from standard RBY PL. If I had to say, this would probably happen sometime after SPL ends.

The main question to answer is if the RBY Forum can support two team tournaments a year, which I don't know the answer to. I'd probably have to ask around and see how many people are interested. If the format includes more niche tiers such as Tradebacks, this becomes an even bigger question since it has a much smaller playerbase.

Possible options:
RBYPL turns to 8 slots:
3x OU, 1x UU, 1x NU, 1x Ubers, 1x Stadium OU, 1x Tradebacks OU
Notes: in this case I don't know if there are enough unique players to fill all these slots comfortably. Also what about PU once NU is finalized, this would mess up the structure, but ofc this 2nd point wouldn't be an issue for at least another good couple years.

We make a 2nd tour with RBYCL
A) 3x OU, 1x Stadium 1x Tradebacks, 1x Random Battles
B) 2x OU, 1x Stadium 1x Tradebacks, 1x Random Battles, 1x "Hybrid Pick"
Hybrid pick = a random tier from a pool of tiers. Possible pool options = LCLv5, LCLv100, MC, NFE, 1v1, Monotype, etc. Not popular enough to warrant their own slot, but can be a mix in option. This would solve issues of tiers competing for a slot as ones gain and fall out of popularity. This "Hybrid pick" could even be rotational from week to week.

RBY PL likely stays with 6x6 format unless we see a significant increase in the popularity of other tiers or number of signups. I would also definitely want to increase OU to 4 slots and then give the remaining slot to a new tier if we increase to 8 slots. Option 2 (RBY CL) seems a lot more likely at a moment.

100% support Eb0la here in regard to possibly getting random battles in RBYPL or RBYCL. We have a rapidly growing player base in a randbats discord. 80 in June has become 150 today. It is 2nd on the popularity poll in rby room and is the format with most active matches on the ladder. I know many are solely rby randbats players and this would bring greater awareness and participation in these tournaments, possibly introducing and bringing a greater player base to OU, UU, NU & Stadium. We definitely have the playerbase to fill a slot if consideration is possible that would be amazing

RBY Random Battles could totally be an option for a theoretical RBY CL.

Overall, the biggest thing is: is there enough interest in 1. having a second RBY Team Tour & 2. metagames that are currently not in RBY PL (i.e. Tradebacks or Random Battles).

 

[YBW]

Right now, there is no plan of hosting a second RBY Team Tournament, but it is something the moderation team can look into. It would definitely have some change of format -- either a RBY CL with other tiers (i.e. Tradebacks) or some form of RBY World Cup -- to mix it up from standard RBY PL. If I had to say, this would probably happen sometime after SPL ends.

The main question to answer is if the RBY Forum can support two team tournaments a year, which I don't know the answer to. I'd probably have to ask around and see how many people are interested. If the format includes more niche tiers such as Tradebacks, this becomes an even bigger question since it has a much smaller playerbase.

RBY PL likely stays with 6x6 format unless we see a significant increase in the popularity of other tiers or number of signups. I would also definitely want to increase OU to 4 slots and then give the remaining slot to a new tier if we increase to 8 slots Option 2 (RBY CL) seems a lot more likely at a moment.

RBY Random Battles could totally be an option for a theoretical RBY CL.

Overall, the biggest thing is: is there enough interest in 1. having a second RBY Team Tour & 2. metagames that are currently not in RBY PL (i.e. Tradebacks or Random Battles).

I can’t speak for tradebacks support as I’m not well seasoned with it but there would definitely be enough interest from our community for random battles in a potential RBYCL. In terms of sign ups for the draft in the current RBYPL we already had enough entrees from the server to fill 6 randbats slots, 4 of whom are former tournament winners in the randbats discord. If randbats made it as a slot I know of at least 10 more who would show interest in participation. There are plenty of tiers that are possibilities though ofc but thank you for consideration Emma we appreciate it

 

[Ortheore]

Oops, maybe I should've made a separate thread for this rather than posting in SQSA.

Anyway, I did kinda assume that the biggest issue would be one of logistics. If we host a second team tour, that's quite a massive undertaking, whereas I'm not sure how things would go in terms of playerbase if the number of slots in the existing RBYPL were expanded. I just found it odd that these alternative formats weren't being run, but ubers was.

Anyway, I've personally decided not to pursue lower tiers so with alternate versions of the game available, I would rather run the least restrictive competitive format in those alternate versions (i.e. OU. The reason I didn't just say OU is that it's not the most accurate representation of my view, since Gen 1 is the only generation where OU actually fulfills that premise imo). However I know that lower tiers also have their own playerbases and that cutting them would be out of the question.

With lower tiers remaining, I don't think the current format could incorporate the alternate OUs- the current number of teamslots seem reasonable, though I haven't checked any data to back up this assessment, so adding the alternate OUs would be too much. A second team tour I think is the logical solution, but as mentioned, logistics would be a huge issue so it's totally understandable if it's not worth pursuing. From the sounds of things, randbats would actually be a sound pick to add to any prospective tour as well, though I don't really have anything to do with them otherwise.

Anyway, my thoughts prior to randbats being brought up were basically 2 of each OU. With randbats included, perhaps something like this:

• 2x RBY
• 1x RBY Tradebacks
• 1x Stadium
• 1x Stadium Tradebacks (I definitely think this should be played, but no-one currently does, so feel free to swap this out I guess)
• 1x Randbats

And then maybe 2 more formats if ppl feel there's enough capacity

In any case, I'm not too concerned with the outcome of all of this, I just wanted to put the idea of adding the alternate OUs to a team tournament out there

The main question to answer is if the RBY Forum can support two team tournaments a year, which I don't know the answer to. I'd probably have to ask around and see how many people are interested. If the format includes more niche tiers such as Tradebacks, this becomes an even bigger question since it has a much smaller playerbase.

Underlined part is really bothering me because I'm reading it ambiguously. Do you mean more niche to mean a greater number of niche tiers, or tiers that are more niche than what's currently played? The former is a very fair point, the latter I would argue isn't a strong case, since I would say that things like tradebacks are probably less niche than most lower tiers/ubers

1st big factor is a dedicated player pool, that already doesn't play another tier in the said tour.
Tbh I've never even heard anyone mention "Stadium Tradebacks" before so no idea on its popularity at all.

In all honesty the main reason I thought of it is that PO for some reason lists Stadium tradebacks as a format but not RBY tradebacks. However I would sincerely argue that Stadium tradebacks is theoretically equally as worthy of play as the other equivalents- I really don't see any reason against not putting it in the same conversation. The reason I have to qualify that stance with "theoretically" is that you're right in that I don't know of any substantial push to play Stadium tradebacks. It's more just that I don't really think there's any reason it shouldn't be played. It's just as legitimate as RBY/tradebacks/Stadium.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

What the hell happened to Golem? I remember it being on par with Rhydon as a definitive answer to Electrics and a shaky Normal check, but now it's all the way down in NU? What gives?

 

[Xaviere]

What the hell happened to Golem? I remember it being on par with Rhydon as a definitive answer to Electrics and a shaky Normal check, but now it's all the way down in NU? What gives?

here’s a flying press article detailing it

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

RBY divides the Attack and Defense stats both by 4 so they can be stored in a single byte. This means, on the cartridge, having a defense of 3 or lower (such as through Screech) can cause a divide by 0 error and crash the game. Does the simulator do anything about this? Does it even simulate the divide by 4 part of damage calculation?

 

[Gastlies]

I just tested the crasing thing, looks like it isn't implemented:
Muk's attack stat is over 255 and Abra's defense was 1 after the screeches, which met the criteria for the crash.

It does look like the division by 4 is implemented though according to the damage calculator.

How I tested it

I tested this with Arcanine and Scyther since they have the same base attack and defense. I gave Arcanine 15 attack and 15 defense DVs while I gave Scyther 14 attack and 14 defense DVs, which means their stats are as follows:

Arcanine Attack: 318
Arcanine Defense: 258
Scyther Attack: 316
Scyther Defense: 256

Meaning after you divide by 4, Arc and Scyther should both have 79 attack and 64 defense, and as a result their Hyper Beams should do the same amount of damage. The calc shows the following:

Scyther Hyper Beam vs. Arcanine: 133-157 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Arcanine Hyper Beam vs. Scyther: 133-157 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ignore the percentages since they have different HP, what matters is that the damage range is 133-157 for both of them, meaning that Arcanine and Scyther have the same attack and defense stats, which shows that the division by 4 is indeed included in the calculation.

 

[Hipmonlee]

https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-s...3589542bb83db3/data/mods/gen1/scripts.ts#L737

Showdown intentionally prevents the divide by 0.

 

[Party B0y]

Hi, I have a question about 'rage' in gen 1. Once used the pokemon can't switch out or select another move - so what happens when the 20pp runs out? Does it just keep going, or does rage stop?

 

[May]

Hi, I have a question about 'rage' in gen 1. Once used the pokemon can't switch out or select another move - so what happens when the 20pp runs out? Does it just keep going, or does rage stop?

Rage continues ad infinitum without consuming PP once used.

 

[Bug Maniac Aydon]

Are people really all that leery of RBY? I heard RBY is going to be/was excluded from NUPL, and I think I saw a discussion where Hipmonlee was saying something or other about people thinking RBYers can just change mechanics in response to some Softboiled not failing clause, and stuff like that; though I don't ever recall seeing anyone like that meself.

 

[May]

Are people really all that leery of RBY? I heard RBY is going to be/was excluded from NUPL, and I think I saw a discussion where Hipmonlee was saying something or other about people thinking RBYers can just change mechanics in response to some Softboiled not failing clause, and stuff like that; though I don't ever recall seeing anyone like that meself.

RBY - and to a lesser extent, GSC - is kind of a black sheep in terms of old gens. It makes sense, since it's got all those strange mechanics and more variance on a turn-by-turn basis (even if it usually evens out by game length). These two factors are usually what turn people off as they tend to get weirdly political about them, although they're also what make others like it. I guess you could say this generation is the Marmite of the franchise.

During my tenure as resource mogul of RBY, I experienced a lot of those types of people. They're nowhere near as common as they were a few years ago when we were about to be cut from SPL, in part due to stereotypes being dispelled. However, they very much still exist, and they always will. And you know what? That's fine! You can't please everyone, and generation very much doesn't intend to. They can throw fits about the game all they like, it's annoying at first but becomes really funny when you see how consistently wrong and stupid some of the criticisms can get. We keep ourselves to ourselves these days anyway.

Don't fret about it.

 

[Jirachee]

I’ve been looking around a bit but couldn’t find an answer: how is it possible to have 0 Stat Exp in Attack on an otherwise fully invested Pokémon? Doesn’t seem feasible to me in game as even if you exclusively KO’d Chansey and Magikarp you’d have some residual Attack investment

 

[May]

I’ve been looking around a bit but couldn’t find an answer: how is it possible to have 0 Stat Exp in Attack on an otherwise fully invested Pokémon? Doesn’t seem feasible to me in game as even if you exclusively KO’d Chansey and Magikarp you’d have some residual Attack investment

You exploit the Exp. All's division mechanics, Enigami discovered it here.

 

[Party B0y]

Is Counter affected by accuracy? I.e. if accuracy is reduced can Counter miss?