Serious Relationships and Sex Ed Thread

[Nastyjungle]

wouldn't it be really shitty if you had to be friends and be nice to a woman and you didn't get any sexual prize for it

man thats like my worst nightmare, talk about scary

 

[popemobile]

the guy defriended me on facebook. lol. debating the merits of posting a "just so you know, *name removed* sexually harasses women on a regular basis"

that would be a facebook status of very tenuous legality, fyi

 

[ssbbm]

i thought friendzone just means that you like them and that they don't like you, it doesnt necessarily imply that they're obligated to like you back?

like, you can say "i just asked her out and i got friendzoned", which really just means that she wasn't into pursuing a relationship with you.

i mean i guess you can read some misogynistic meaning into it, but the majority of times that i hear it it's not in the context of "what a bitch, she friendzoned me and shes just using me because im nice and shes so mean!!", but rather in the context of "she doesn't like me back, and she only thinks of me as a friend so i am 'friendzoned'."

 

[az]

ur alldum

 

[Ninahaza]

Az friend-zoned me a couple of years ago and ever since our relationship (friendship) has been severely strained

 

[az]

:)

being my friend is superior to being my lover!!

 

[az]

my phone thought i meant 'liver'. this, too, would have been accurate

 

[Ninahaza]

^_^

I too am on my phone. I am working a late shift today. OMG we are totally meant for each other








































As friends~

 

[Nastyjungle]

i thought friendzone just means that you like them and that they don't like you, it doesnt necessarily imply that they're obligated to like you back?

like, you can say "i just asked her out and i got friendzoned", which really just means that she wasn't into pursuing a relationship with you.

i mean i guess you can read some misogynistic meaning into it, but the majority of times that i hear it it's not in the context of "what a bitch, she friendzoned me and shes just using me because im nice and shes so mean!!", but rather in the context of "she doesn't like me back, and she only thinks of me as a friend so i am 'friendzoned'."

the point is that there shouldn't be a special word for it
a girl being your friend is no different than a man being your friend, so you don't need to make up this special term for when you are friends of the opposite sex

im not gonna turn this into a whole big thing, but it's a term that is inherently sexist whether that context is given or not

(as an aside, I have literally never heard somebody refer to the "friendzone" as a positive place to be)

 

[Chill Murray]

i don't know, i got "friend zoned" by a friend of mine and judging by the way she does relationships, i'm glad my feelings at the time weren't mutual

 

[popemobile]

a girl being your friend is no different than a man being your friend

that's a really naive way of looking at that

 

[MrIndigo]

Friendzoned is almost invariably used in one of three different senses.

1) I want to have sex this girl, but I'm scared to ask her out because we're friends, so I'll say she friendzoned me so I can make it her fault instead of mine.

2) I want to have sex with this girl, but when I asked her out she said no because we're friends. She was only saying it not to hurt my feelings by saying I wasn't attractive or she doesn't really like me, but I'll use it to say that being nice to girls is bad because they don't see you as datable and she only dates douchebags instead of nice guys like me.

3) I wanted to have sex with this girl, but she said she wasn't interested, so I'm going to accuse her of being a friendzoning bitch because she won't have sex with me and I'm entitled to sex with her and who would even want to be friends with a girl if there's no chance of sex?

It does not mean, and noone ever uses it to mean "I am friends with a girl.", or even "I am friends with a girl I am attracted to."

 

[MrIndigo]

that would be a facebook status of very tenuous legality, fyi

I don't know it would be, really. I mean, all he's likely to be able to be got for is defamation, and defamation is only for false statements, so if it's true there's not much that can be done.

Yay free speech and all that.

EDIT: This should not be read as an endorsement of doing such a thing.

 

[Lee]

that's a really naive way of looking at that

but not entirely untrue, I'd say it depends on the girl. I have a few female friends where the dynamic is entirely different to that of my male friends just because their interests and views are so radically different but I also have a female friend who's into combat sports, working out, and drinking beer by the gallon so I don't treat her any differently than I do my male friends or feel any differently around her.

my male friends all swear blind that a man and a woman cannot be 'just friends' but the only problem i've ever experienced on that front is when they start dating a guy and the guy gets a little antsy about the fact his girlfriend is spending so much time with me and that inevitably leads to us drifting apart or, at the very least, a change in the dynamic of the friendship but those relationships tend not to last too long anyway because the guy is obviously an insecure douche.

 

[MrIndigo]

I had few close female friends in High School, but that was largely due to different interests.

Now (i.e. post-University) I have plenty of female friends, most of whom I have no problem being "just friends" with nor any desire for more than that.

 

[Fishy]

i've had my fair share of crushes that went sour, and never for a second in my mind did i think "damn, i've been friend zoned!" i simply accepted that the person and i could not connect the way i might have wanted, and moved on. there were no faults on either party, nor did i feel like i had been arbitrarily placed into an atmosphere with this person that meant we could only hold hands cupped, not fingers laced.

i wouldn't call the idea of being a friend with a man or being a friend with a woman being the same "naive." true, the devil is in the details if you're going to look at individual cases, but the point is that human beings are capable of functioning and thinking past their reproductive imperatives, and a person's sex does not and should not inherently determine how they can interact with any other person on the planet.

gee, and you wonder why it might be difficult for a girl to try and integrate herself into a gaming forum as if there's nothing special or different about her compared to the next guy? for whatever reason, some people believe that a person's entire personality is borne in their loins - it is and always has been society's "nurturing" (or better yet, conditioning) effect that shapes gender stereotypes, and raises silly ideas like the "friend zone" in the first place. i think what annoys me more than anything are people that consider themselves victims of circumstance in this world, and refuse to treat other human beings as simply human beings. instead, they resign themselves to the stereotypes and ideals that are expected of them, and that they in turn expect from their peers.

i have plenty of guy friends, plenty of girl friends, plenty of gay friends, plenty of all sorts of friends. you can be attracted to any one of your friends, but don't for a SECOND think that your sexual attraction should ever take precedent over the friendship you could nurture with someone instead. it's not as if you find out that you're attracted to a friend and think "welp, that's that, now we either fuck or we just can't be friends anymore." grow: up.

 

[SalTheThief]

The "friendzone" is a vague concept because of how different relationships between two people are. I think it's generally agreed upon as "I like this person and I've asked them out but they don't see me as anything more than a good friend" but there are so many other variables that come into play that I don't think it's right for either side to assume it to be the fault of the other. It sucks that the person that only wants to be friends is now short a friend but it also sucks that the other person now has to pretend that their romantic/sexual advances had never happened while possibly seeing their person of interest with a significant other. I believe that's why people cut contact after an unsuccessful attempt at asking someone out.

Another point is that I don't think it's fair to assume people in the "friendzone" only want sex(though I'm sure it has happened before!).

 

[Nastyjungle]

that's a really naive way of looking at that

i guess we have to agree to disagree then because personally i think having the attitiude you do is part of the problem

 

[Zracknel]

I feel bad for adding to this since there was a big discussion about friendzone stuff several pages ago, but I feel compelled, I'm sorry if this is out of line

The "friendzone" is a vague concept because of how different relationships between two people are. I think it's generally agreed upon as "I like this person and I've asked them out but they don't see me as anything more than a good friend"

How is "the freindzone" ever actually anything more than a complaint of entitlement? Guys who say this feel like they are entitled to a sexual/romantic relationship because they did "all the right things" or, worse, "were a nice guy" to someone they were interested in-- when the rejection is polite (or maybe just cliche) suddenly it's fair game to spin it into a criticism of the girl's character? Or worse?

but there are so many other variables that come into play that I don't think it's right for either side to assume it to be the fault of the other.

I don't think anyone will give a rejected guy a hard time about being bitter over rejection

I do think they should give him a hard time when he complains that he was friendly to a girl and she did not accept his advances (the nerve)

and that she is therefore sub-human because his intent was veiled by being polite and civil (which really should be the case, shouldn't it? We should be polite and civil and respectful to each other)

It sucks that the person that only wants to be friends is now short a friend but it also sucks that the other person now has to pretend that their romantic/sexual advances had never happened while possibly seeing their person of interest with a significant other. I believe that's why people cut contact after an unsuccessful attempt at asking someone out.

Rejection is tough, awful, and sucks. I don't think anyone is demanding that we stay close with those who have rejected us.

But in thinking about it, what does it say about the friendship if rejection being involved dissolves things? It seems to hint at the idea that there wasn't much of a friendship to begin with-- or if there was, it was a friendship of very specific intent (the intent being to fulfill a romantic or sexual interest)

I want to say that's fine, we can operate like this, but let's not mask intent and get extremely passive-aggressive about rejection when it happens in this context. In my eyes, it's better to just seek out authentic, non-ulterior-motive friendships with men and women alike and just let romance-y stuff strike like lightning when it does; I know this is not everyone's idea of a good time

In a friendship, rejection being involved can get awkward. But it doesn't have to be. People handle these things differently. It is possible to forgive and move on, really it is.

Another point is that I don't think it's fair to assume people in the "friendzone" only want sex(though I'm sure it has happened before!).

I know that different people have different ideas about the way they treat dating/sexual relationships-- not everyone wants to date or be sexually involved with someone that they are friends with, people want different things

But if it wasn't the sex that people "in the friendzone" wanted, what was it? the other physical affections? Roses?

it is possible to hang out a lot with friends
it is possible to be very close with friends
you can go on dinner dates with friends
it is possible to love friends (!)
it is possible for friends to also love you (!)
and it's possible, with both of the above being true, that the relationship is still not a sexual/romantic relationship (!)

friendship-- real friendship-- gets an unbelievably bad rap. I'm not saying I don't understand it, it's just one of those "I am sad that this is the world we live in" kind of things, I guess

a girl being your friend is no different than a man being your friend

that's a really naive way of looking at that

I would challenge you on this, and maybe suggest your perspective has a degree of naivety and sexism as well-- does it have to be true that all male friends have to be treated differently from female friends? Regardless of how "the world works". I'm not saying you have to change anyone else's mind-- I just mean for you, personally

to be anecdotal, my closest friends happen to be female and I'm a straight guy-- would you suggest that these friendships are inferior to male friendships? Or that I'm just really messed up, or something like that?

This turned into a long post, I am sorry for that

thank you for listening

 

[Smith]

I think the whole crux of the "Males and Females can't be platonic friends" thing is that, when people say it, they usually are also inferring that one or both parties has an attraction to the other. I think that if a guy and girl are friends and aren't attracted to each other, then that works fine, but if either the guy or the girl is dissatisfied with the friendship then it definitely screws up the dynamics. Friendship is, and should be, wholly consensual, and if every time you hang out with your friend you feel like you should be more than just friends, that's when problems come up. I think that's what people mean by that.

 

[popemobile]

I would challenge you on this, and maybe suggest your perspective has a degree of naivety and sexism as well-- does it have to be true that all male friends have to be treated differently from female friends? Regardless of how "the world works". I'm not saying you have to change anyone else's mind-- I just mean for you, personally

to be anecdotal, my closest friends happen to be female and I'm a straight guy-- would you suggest that these friendships are inferior to male friendships? Or that I'm just really messed up, or something like that

well first I'd ask you to point out where I said you have to treat male friends and female friends differently, or that they are inferior. You'll find that you're assuming a lot of things about my statement that just aren't there, because I never said or even really implied any of those things.

All I'm saying is that the most basic and prevalent human instinct makes it difficult for two people who are attracted to each other to have the same friendship as those who aren't.

i've had my fair share of crushes that went sour, and never for a second in my mind did i think "damn, i've been friend zoned!" i simply accepted that the person and i could not connect the way i might have wanted, and moved on. there were no faults on either party, nor did i feel like i had been arbitrarily placed into an atmosphere with this person that meant we could only hold hands cupped, not fingers laced.

i wouldn't call the idea of being a friend with a man or being a friend with a woman being the same "naive." true, the devil is in the details if you're going to look at individual cases, but the point is that human beings are capable of functioning and thinking past their reproductive imperatives, and a person's sex does not and should not inherently determine how they can interact with any other person on the planet.

gee, and you wonder why it might be difficult for a girl to try and integrate herself into a gaming forum as if there's nothing special or different about her compared to the next guy? for whatever reason, some people believe that a person's entire personality is borne in their loins - it is and always has been society's "nurturing" (or better yet, conditioning) effect that shapes gender stereotypes, and raises silly ideas like the "friend zone" in the first place. i think what annoys me more than anything are people that consider themselves victims of circumstance in this world, and refuse to treat other human beings as simply human beings. instead, they resign themselves to the stereotypes and ideals that are expected of them, and that they in turn expect from their peers.

i have plenty of guy friends, plenty of girl friends, plenty of gay friends, plenty of all sorts of friends. you can be attracted to any one of your friends, but don't for a SECOND think that your sexual attraction should ever take precedent over the friendship you could nurture with someone instead. it's not as if you find out that you're attracted to a friend and think "welp, that's that, now we either fuck or we just can't be friends anymore." grow: up.

are you just ranting or was that a serious response to what I said? You read a hell of a lot more into that one little statement than what is actually there.

 

[elcheeso]

TL;DR version of events: Everyone made assumptions about what everyone else was saying and responded according to those assumptions. popemobile assumed NJ was talking about male and female friends who were attracted to each other (or one side attracted but the other not), everyone else assumed popemobile was talking about male and female friendships in general.

 

[Woodchuck]

in the end the takeaway is: be mindful of what you want out of a person and respectful of their feelings (and the difference between the two!!!)
and everyone lived happily ever after

 

[ChronusGreed]

I think it's better when the girl/guy say that don't want nothing with the other than say something about friendship.

 

[DM]

I'm sorry I brought it up, it's all my fault for posting that joke. I found it relevant, but I should have known better.



Let's put this discussion to bed once and for all, because nothing good ever comes of it. I'd say "make a new thread to discuss it", but really, that's not even a good idea either. Let's just get back to telling off immature Brazilians.