You are aware that they can see what type Arceus is since Arceus changes colors depending on his plate... No one will think you're dark for a second unless they don't look at the sprites at all.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Research Week - Arceus
- Thread starter Theorymon
- Start date
Arceus @ Steel Plate
Calm/Bold Nature
EVs: 100 in everything, 8 in speed (bulkier one when available)
-Judgement
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover
-Calm Mind/Light Screen
Basically, it's like Quick Stall Mewtwo, but uses its typing in place of Taunt to give it an immunity to Toxic it's greatest hindrance. Will-O-Wisp halves attack and Calm Mind boosts both your special stats. Light Screen can be used to sort of "avoid" critical hits, as in they don't hit through your boost. Steel Judgement is probably the only bad thing about this set. It's walled by Heatran and Ho-Oh, but might be able to take on anything else. Toxic Plate can be used, but then you're walled by Dialga, Heatran, and Scizor. It's probably not worth using.
Calm/Bold Nature
EVs: 100 in everything, 8 in speed (bulkier one when available)
-Judgement
-Will-O-Wisp
-Recover
-Calm Mind/Light Screen
Basically, it's like Quick Stall Mewtwo, but uses its typing in place of Taunt to give it an immunity to Toxic it's greatest hindrance. Will-O-Wisp halves attack and Calm Mind boosts both your special stats. Light Screen can be used to sort of "avoid" critical hits, as in they don't hit through your boost. Steel Judgement is probably the only bad thing about this set. It's walled by Heatran and Ho-Oh, but might be able to take on anything else. Toxic Plate can be used, but then you're walled by Dialga, Heatran, and Scizor. It's probably not worth using.
Critical hits ignore screens if I remember correctly, and why post the set if you think its bad...?
I don't think it's bad. My wording was off. I meant Toxic Plate might not be the best choice of plate for offensive coverage. One could opt to run EQ or Flamethrower though you'll end up walled by something one way or another. Also, Critical Hits don't ignore screens. I'd know by experience. The screens still boost your defenses so a Critical Hit is like taking a normal hit if you get what I mean.
After checking Bulbapedia and finding it saying crits do go through screens, it just might be a shoddy glitch. I've used screens for a while and even when crits occurred, the screens made it feel like regular damage and not a critical hit.
After checking Bulbapedia and finding it saying crits do go through screens, it just might be a shoddy glitch. I've used screens for a while and even when crits occurred, the screens made it feel like regular damage and not a critical hit.
My posts inferred that Arceus is a terrible dual screener in the first place, because he doesn't really have a special niche to differentiate itself from other screeners.
This infers he's a terrible dual screener?
Firstly, the set I posted isn't Dual Screens. It's meant for some sort of Quick stall which it might be able to do better than Mewtwo due to its good speed and superior bulk as well as its ability to choose what type it is.
Second of all, it isn't utterly maimed by Scizor's U-turn even after a Will-O-Wisp due to Poison's resistances unlike Mewtwo. To give you an estimate of its bulk, Rock Polish Groudon is doing 45.8% - 54.7% after its burned with its STAB Earthquake to the 100 everything EV spread using a Bold nature. That's probably the only thing capable of actually hurting Poison Arceus. When its EV spreads get fixed, it'll probably be unable to 2KO.
PSychic attacks are hardly seen in Ubers from what I heard so that's not an issue.
Right, and I'd switch instantly to Heatran, and sub up as you switch, because you can't do a thing, besides the rather obscure hp ground.
Of course you'd choose one of 2 things commonly seen in Ubers to say it can't do a thing when it walls pretty much the rest of the tier.
Heatran isn't even that common to begin with. I even mentioned Earthquake as an option if you'd read...
Heatran isn't even that common to begin with. I even mentioned Earthquake as an option if you'd read...
Bulk Up Dialga says <3. You can't hurt it, or stop it from spamming Bulk Up, same with CMOgre, TauntCM Mewtwo, Darkrai, Safeguard Wob+Ray, Chomp, or Groudon. And Heatran is FAR more common than you're giving it credit for. Its in the top 30 in usage, it shows up. Saying Heatran isn't that common is almost like saying Blissey isn't that common(only ~1.5k more uses in April).
Dialga isn't spamming Bulk Up. If it is, you have a free turn to switch in anything you want as a burned +1 Dialga isn't hurting much at all. CMogre isn't that much of a problem since you have CM as well as recover. It all comes down to who gets the crit first and you have a higher chance due to the higher speed. Wob can't do anything to you outside Encore. You can hurt it with Judgement after your CM if you please. Just watch out for Mirror Coat. Chomp is worse than Groudon in that it can't hurt you as much with its inferior attack stat. Still, SD is a set to watch out for, but it isn't as common as Scarf.
TauntCM Mewtwo does hurt you since you can't set up on it. Darkrai is the same since it can put you to sleep.
Also, top thirty isn't as common as you make it out to be. Aren't there like only 24 Pokemon in Ubers? Blissey is #19. Heatran is #26. That's nowhere near close enough for you to be comparing the two considering the amount of people that used Heatran is almost half that of those that used Blissey...
TauntCM Mewtwo does hurt you since you can't set up on it. Darkrai is the same since it can put you to sleep.
Also, top thirty isn't as common as you make it out to be. Aren't there like only 24 Pokemon in Ubers? Blissey is #19. Heatran is #26. That's nowhere near close enough for you to be comparing the two considering the amount of people that used Heatran is almost half that of those that used Blissey...
Bulk Up Dialga ALWAYS carries resttalk, it doesn't care if you status it.
Kyogre usually 2hkos you with Surf if you're at equal boosts and also it has Resttalk. While you're stuck with a 6hko but have to spam Recover to live. Also because you don't run +speed CMogre out speeds you.
Wob Encores you then acts according, Safeguard means you're staring down a boosted Groudon/Rayquaza/Garchomp if you WoW and RP Groudon, DD Ray and any Garchomp outspeed you.
It doesn't matter what they carry since you're switching out after it's burned to set up yourself as it is forced to Rest if it even wants to hurt you. Also, Kyogre 3KOs at 45.8% - 54.2% calculating leftovers so my word still stands. CM Kyogre doesn't outspeed Arceus unless it runs max speed. No CM Rest-talk ogre will run max speed, ever. Wobuffett is 2KOed if it switches into SR and CM. You're also forgetting that Wobuffett is slower (you seriously need to learn speed tiers). Therefore, the scenario you described has no significance since Wobb is essentially sacrificing itself for a Steel type to come in by encoring Judgement. Why wouldn't that steel type come in on Arceus in the first place?
Six KO? Judgment 4KOs Rest-talk and 3KOs offensive versions. Did you set Judgment to normal typing and make Arceus Poison type because I think it's a six KO not taking into account its STAB.
Six KO? Judgment 4KOs Rest-talk and 3KOs offensive versions. Did you set Judgment to normal typing and make Arceus Poison type because I think it's a six KO not taking into account its STAB.
Steel plate is not leftovers.MetaGross66 said:
Theres 2 CMOgre sets, CMResttalk and CM3Attacks. CM3Attacks outspeeds and gets you stuck into Recover spam. CMResttalk is Modest and 2hkos from the increased damage.
1204 Atk vs 1264 Def & 342 HP (120 Base Power): 62 - 73 (18.13% - 21.35%) against CM3attacks. Factor in Lefties and its 21.35+(15.1*n)>=100 n = 5.2 so thats a 7hko actually.
1204 Atk vs 1264 Def & 401 HP (120 Base Power): 62 - 73 (15.46% - 18.20%) CMRest. Factor in Lefties and that's 18.2+(11.95*n)>=100
n = 6.8 so an 8hko.
And why would Wob stay in against Arceus locked into Judgement that'd ko next turn HP they'd switch to one of the many Steel resists.
And if you ARE talking about Poison type it DOESN'T 2HKO WOB.
Yeah, we were talking about poison typing the whole time, lol. Also, Surf has less than a 50% chance to 2KO even when not taking lefties into account. Poison Arceus does 30.9% - 36.7%. That's a 4KO.
That same Arceus is doing 46.6% - 55.1% to Wobuffett after 1 CM so all it can afford to do is Encore, Safeguard, or Mirror Coat and switch out.
These Pokemon do that to just about every other CM Arceus set. Mind I ask why you're bashing this one? Poison typing isn't that bad when you consider its resistances and the type coverage it gets against Steel types in the form of Flamethrower and Earthquake. Actually try it out before posting anything since it obviously isn't getting you anywhere.
That same Arceus is doing 46.6% - 55.1% to Wobuffett after 1 CM so all it can afford to do is Encore, Safeguard, or Mirror Coat and switch out.
These Pokemon do that to just about every other CM Arceus set. Mind I ask why you're bashing this one? Poison typing isn't that bad when you consider its resistances and the type coverage it gets against Steel types in the form of Flamethrower and Earthquake. Actually try it out before posting anything since it obviously isn't getting you anywhere.
Arceus @ Spooky Plate
100 HP / 8 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Nature: Timid
Judgement
Will-o-Wisp
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Recover
I needed a ghost that wasn't part dragon and didn't suck against Forretress. Judgement is a ubiquitous stab attack that also has excellent coverage in ubers, only missing out on Darkrai, Dialga, Dark/Steel/Normal Arceus, and from OU, Blissey, Scizor, and Forretress. Flamethrower hits most of these at least neutrally, but I am not completely concerned with excellent coverage here. The main point of the set is to block Forry's spin and force it out with Flamethrower. As a sidenote, if the opponent is stupid enough to use Starmie or something as a spinner, it beats that too. As has been said, it is also a great mixed wall that can neutralize mixed attackers with Will-o-Wisp, allowing teammates like Blissey to wall them with impunity.
100 HP / 8 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Nature: Timid
Judgement
Will-o-Wisp
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Recover
I needed a ghost that wasn't part dragon and didn't suck against Forretress. Judgement is a ubiquitous stab attack that also has excellent coverage in ubers, only missing out on Darkrai, Dialga, Dark/Steel/Normal Arceus, and from OU, Blissey, Scizor, and Forretress. Flamethrower hits most of these at least neutrally, but I am not completely concerned with excellent coverage here. The main point of the set is to block Forry's spin and force it out with Flamethrower. As a sidenote, if the opponent is stupid enough to use Starmie or something as a spinner, it beats that too. As has been said, it is also a great mixed wall that can neutralize mixed attackers with Will-o-Wisp, allowing teammates like Blissey to wall them with impunity.
I prefer using Calm Mind on my ghost Arceus over Will-o-wisp. That way it makes a great late game sweeper and can easily set up on Forretress. Also, Arceus gets Cosmic Power. Is anyone else thinking of a super troll set along the lines of
Arceus @ Iron Plate
100 HP / 0 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Nature: Timid
Toxic
Cosmic Power
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Recover
Fire Blast/Flamethrower runs over those pesky steels, and although it's Taunt fodder, it'll still be ridiculously annoying to kill. Use specially defensive CB-Tar to Pursuit Mewtwo (setting up Sandstorm to help stall), and this should have a field day. Darkrai may be trouble, but unless it runs Nasty Plot+Focus Blast, it will have a tough time of killing Arceus. I know it seems nubby but I love messing around with these troll sets. The ghost type set above is no joke though.
Arceus @ Iron Plate
100 HP / 0 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe
Nature: Timid
Toxic
Cosmic Power
Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Recover
Fire Blast/Flamethrower runs over those pesky steels, and although it's Taunt fodder, it'll still be ridiculously annoying to kill. Use specially defensive CB-Tar to Pursuit Mewtwo (setting up Sandstorm to help stall), and this should have a field day. Darkrai may be trouble, but unless it runs Nasty Plot+Focus Blast, it will have a tough time of killing Arceus. I know it seems nubby but I love messing around with these troll sets. The ghost type set above is no joke though.
I'm still testing a lot more Arceus sets, but two Calm Mind sets in particular have been working very well for me (excluding CM Steel Arceus, which is not only my favorite Arceus set so far but in my opinion, its also the most dangerous Arceus set to face).
Arceus @ Fist plate
nature: timid
evs: do I really have to list this here >_>
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Judgment
-Dark Pulse
The main idea behind this set is that unlike most other Calm Mind Arceus sets, this one has no problem smashing through Steel Arceus, dealing 96.1% - 112.8% with Judgment after one Calm Mind! You also have a chance at beating Blissey IF you play your cards right. Due to the ev cap, after a Calm Mind Judgment will deal 44.2% - 52.5% to the standard Blissey. With entry hazards support (I have been using it with both Spikes and Stealth Rock), You will 2HKO Blissey, forcing it to recover. If you predict when its gong to attempt to Wish stall, you can get another Calm Mind in, which means you easily 2HKO Blissey! Dark Pulse is here to cover the Psychic types such as Mewtwo. So far, this Arceus's biggest problems have been Wobbuffet and Latias. Even after a Calm Mind, Dark Pulse fails to 2HKO Wobbuffet, which is obviously a big issue. As for Latias, it usually goes down to a Calm Mind war that only ends when one user gets a critical hit.
Arceus @ Toxic Plate
nature: Timid
evs: the usual
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Judgment
-Fire Blast / Ice Beam
I know I know, Poison is a terrible type blah blah blah, BUT this is the only other Arceus thats immune to getting Toxic'd, and it does have some advantages over Steel Arceus. The two biggest advantages are that this Arceus isn't weak to Fire and Fighting type attacks. Toxic Spikes absorbing sounds nice, but not only have I not faced Toxic Spikes with this yet, but I don't know if it can absorb Toxic Spikes in Pokemon Online (it can ingame at least).
Poison Judgment may be a terrible STAB, but its needed if you want any chance of beating Blissey with this set. It also 2HKOs Wobbuffet after Stealth Rock damage and a Calm Mind. I usually use Fire Blast in the last slot, since its your only chance of beating Steel Arceus in the sun (which often OHKOs when boosted). Fire Blast also deals with most other Steel types that laugh at Judgment, and can badly hurt Groudon. Ice Beam is mostly there in case you prefer a OHKO on Garchomp (dont worry about Rayquaza, a +1 Judgment OHKOs after Stealth Rock). So far, the biggest issues with this set are Steel Arceus in the rain and Heatran (unless you have Earthpower). Much like the last set, this will also get into a Calm Mind war with Latias.
I will be testing a lot more Arceus sets soon, the main ones I will focus on mono Calm Mind Arceus sets with Substitute, but other ideas I have in mind include a Gravity Arceus with the purpose of abusing entry hazards and possibly Roar, Choice Band Arceus, a Defensive Arceus with Perish Song, and finally some support sets with Stealth Rock.
Edit: Good news, Poison Arceus DOES absorb Toxic Spikes on Pokemon Online! Thats a really nice selling point for Toxic Spikes weak teams.
Arceus @ Fist plate
nature: timid
evs: do I really have to list this here >_>
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Judgment
-Dark Pulse
The main idea behind this set is that unlike most other Calm Mind Arceus sets, this one has no problem smashing through Steel Arceus, dealing 96.1% - 112.8% with Judgment after one Calm Mind! You also have a chance at beating Blissey IF you play your cards right. Due to the ev cap, after a Calm Mind Judgment will deal 44.2% - 52.5% to the standard Blissey. With entry hazards support (I have been using it with both Spikes and Stealth Rock), You will 2HKO Blissey, forcing it to recover. If you predict when its gong to attempt to Wish stall, you can get another Calm Mind in, which means you easily 2HKO Blissey! Dark Pulse is here to cover the Psychic types such as Mewtwo. So far, this Arceus's biggest problems have been Wobbuffet and Latias. Even after a Calm Mind, Dark Pulse fails to 2HKO Wobbuffet, which is obviously a big issue. As for Latias, it usually goes down to a Calm Mind war that only ends when one user gets a critical hit.
Arceus @ Toxic Plate
nature: Timid
evs: the usual
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Judgment
-Fire Blast / Ice Beam
I know I know, Poison is a terrible type blah blah blah, BUT this is the only other Arceus thats immune to getting Toxic'd, and it does have some advantages over Steel Arceus. The two biggest advantages are that this Arceus isn't weak to Fire and Fighting type attacks. Toxic Spikes absorbing sounds nice, but not only have I not faced Toxic Spikes with this yet, but I don't know if it can absorb Toxic Spikes in Pokemon Online (it can ingame at least).
Poison Judgment may be a terrible STAB, but its needed if you want any chance of beating Blissey with this set. It also 2HKOs Wobbuffet after Stealth Rock damage and a Calm Mind. I usually use Fire Blast in the last slot, since its your only chance of beating Steel Arceus in the sun (which often OHKOs when boosted). Fire Blast also deals with most other Steel types that laugh at Judgment, and can badly hurt Groudon. Ice Beam is mostly there in case you prefer a OHKO on Garchomp (dont worry about Rayquaza, a +1 Judgment OHKOs after Stealth Rock). So far, the biggest issues with this set are Steel Arceus in the rain and Heatran (unless you have Earthpower). Much like the last set, this will also get into a Calm Mind war with Latias.
I will be testing a lot more Arceus sets soon, the main ones I will focus on mono Calm Mind Arceus sets with Substitute, but other ideas I have in mind include a Gravity Arceus with the purpose of abusing entry hazards and possibly Roar, Choice Band Arceus, a Defensive Arceus with Perish Song, and finally some support sets with Stealth Rock.
Edit: Good news, Poison Arceus DOES absorb Toxic Spikes on Pokemon Online! Thats a really nice selling point for Toxic Spikes weak teams.
Why does that thing need 100 attack ev's instead of speed?
Also the moveset should be Judgement,Calm mind,recover,Will-O-Wisp
Isn't that practically what I was testing? Anyway, I feel that fist plate arceus hasn't been doing as well as it should due to random psychics and things that uncommonly stop arceus from really sweeping.
Oh, I must have over looked your set... Anyways, I am basing my experience off of players that are decent. Speaking of that, due to the low quality of most battlers on PO, we are likely to arrange an "Arceus get together" sometime. More details as I speak about this to the other Uber mods.