Returning to Our Roots NOC Mafia - GAME OVER: The Mafia Wins

I am saying I want a claim out of him, which I contest is not an anti-town move, but you refuse to concede that, but I can't force him. How does that not make sense? It's like saying I'm important but I'm not going to tell you why. Would you trust someone who said that?

And where did I say town is scummy? I said my opinion differs from that of the majority others in the thread, that's all, and an unproven opinion at that. If that is scummy then we might as well lynch you for starters. And is it not the point of the game to try and show people what you think and work with what everyone thinks to find mafia?

I made them up as a guess, I admitted that when I typed it just before it by saying it was a rough estimate; you assume them as fact, despite I said right before that they were a guess. Why take a guess as absolutely true?
 
You said, "why assume a persons opinion is the same as the group". Your opinion makes you scum, not the entire village. I am not assuming this at all.
I trust engineer on the basis that 1). Mafia would be more careful about what they say, 2). There has been nothing comin out of his mouth this day that's scummy and not simply new to this game, and 3). Considering the power roles left in the game, engineer very possibly has a power role.

Asking engineer to claim, forcing him under pressure of a vote, is inherently anti-town. You are town right?
 
what
I come across as town, but you still want to lynch me anyways...
Please explain how this works. You don't mention anything about Pernicious and his post, but I should apparently be lynched because AG acted scummy even though you say I come across as town.
I said that you are playing like a town, but that your predecessor in the role was so unbelievably scummy throughout that for the time being, that outweighs it to such an extent that for the time being you are the best person to lynch in my opinion.
 
You said, "why assume a persons opinion is the same as the group". Your opinion makes you scum, not the entire village. I am not assuming this at all.
I trust engineer on the basis that 1). Mafia would be more careful about what they say, 2). There has been nothing comin out of his mouth this day that's scummy and not simply new to this game, and 3). Considering the power roles left in the game, engineer very possibly has a power role.

Asking engineer to claim, forcing him under pressure of a vote, is inherently anti-town. You are town right?
Not getting that first part at all, please clarify how you are not giving opinion right now on me? From how I see it, everyone interprets facts differently and forms an opinion; the most common and believed interpretation of those alive wins the game. All I can do is disagree with the status quo of people not wanting him to hard claim and try to show everyone my opinion based on fact is right, for better or for worse. The object of the mafia is to do the same, which is why you might see me a scum, but is someone to be lynched on a difference of opinion? That, once again, is a fallacy, as they should not be lynched unless there is facts, such as possibly slipping they have a role, which you admitted earlier did not exist until my one post.

Yes, I want Engineer to claim, Yes, he might possibly be a power role, but not claiming at all makes little sense, since you seem to forget he could be mafia almost as easily as Town, as mafia seems to have actions too, and they might slip that just as easily as a town would. This is my argument refuting all points. If you keep arguing on this, I can't see how unless you completely disagree with how I play mafia, as well as not caring enough to understand my position, or you do not agree with me on how EP was before he slipped a role (which I thought he was shifty even before then).

And seriously, I never asked for voting pressure on EP at all nor did I mention him being lynched at all; if anything I advocated for him to reveal before we considering lynching anyone, or to not reveal and at least wait a day. The others (Empoof, Poke) that have proposed that also eventually gave an opinion against it (Empoof) or changed targets (Poke). I said I would like a hard claim, and I still do. He has yet to post his thoughts on a hard claim subject, and if he does not soon, I think it's best for us all to assume he will not no matter what I ask. I do not expect him to bow to the whims of the minority (if I am the minority, which based on opinions before this I may be), though I would appreciate it if he did.

(Also emphasizing to him: If you do, do NOT c/p it. No godkills please.)
 
Claim: One shot question asker
Quagsires is scum.
Ugh. Drama. Well Quagsires?

About Engineer Pikachu's Claim:
EP could be mafia, he could be town. That's all great reasoning... I don't see how that affects the nature of his claim though. It is safer for us to have him NOT claim, because the only people his claim benefits is mafia. If he were to claim, how does this benefit town in any way?
-EP is town: his role is now known by the mafia. They get better decisions on who they kill and who they don't kill. It's easier for them to pick off the more important roles and lead themselves to victory. We also may not believe him, because we could be thinking his claim is fake.
-EP is mafia: inherently his claim is assumed fake. This could lead to a counterclaim. Which is also bad for town. We don't know who to believe, mafia have more info on us. Small possibility of us proving he is mafia, but at that point we'd be taking 50/50 chance risks and mafia would probably learn more about the rest of towns roles. Or noone counterclaims. And we have a mafia with a fake claim that we can't tell is true or false. Unless his fake claim is bad (which, let's be honest, at this point it won't be) then it doesn't benefit town.

I don't see how revealing his role would in any way benefit town if he was town OR mafia. If you (Quagsires) could give me a detailed outline of how (knowing he could be either town or scum) this benefits town more than it benefits mafia, please be my guest. So far the arguments I see have been (all paraphrased) "his claim will make or break my trust", "looking like he has no idea what to claim" (this doesn't even make sense), and "it's just as likely he is scum that he is village". And, if there were small chances that it WOULD benefit town, how are the odds in our favor if he claims?

And here is the question for Quagsires that jalmont was talking about

I'm sorry if i missed any questions or accusations against me, but the ones I saw seemed to have little evidence behind them. I'm trying to direct a lynch so that we can make sure to hit mafia? I don't really see that as bad... but I'm willing to answer/rebuttal anything I missed or if there is new evidence, then that.. etc. If I misunderstood something please let me know also.
 

Engineer Pikachu

Good morning, you bastards!
is a Contributor Alumnus
I don't really have time for a full post right now, but I might as well pop in and say that I'm not going to claim just yet unless situations demand that I do so. Claiming right now will only give the mafia more information than is necessary.

e: grah empooninja and screw me for not refreshing the page beforehand
 
I said that you are playing like a town, but that your predecessor in the role was so unbelievably scummy throughout that for the time being, that outweighs it to such an extent that for the time being you are the best person to lynch in my opinion.
Look, I understand that whatever I say I know I won't convince anyone that AG acted clean. I'll be the first one to admit that he acted really suspiciously. Before I got subbed in for him I thought he was scum!

So I understand why you would think I'm scum, but given your logic it makes close to zero sense for me to lynch me. I'm somehow the best person to lynch because Aura Guardian acted incredibly scummy. But you even said it yourself that I come across as town. Have you even been reading this thread? What about Quagsires? Pernicious? Do they not come across as suspicious to you? Pernicious and the people he subbed in for It appears to me that you have been ignoring this entire thread and simply focusing on AG's scumminess. Honestly, at this point I think your scum trying to push a lynch on a village role.

Lynch pokemaniac212
 
Look, I understand that whatever I say I know I won't convince anyone that AG acted clean. I'll be the first one to admit that he acted really suspiciously. Before I got subbed in for him I thought he was scum!

So I understand why you would think I'm scum, but given your logic it makes close to zero sense for me to lynch me. I'm somehow the best person to lynch because Aura Guardian acted incredibly scummy. But you even said it yourself that I come across as town. Have you even been reading this thread? What about Quagsires? Pernicious? Do they not come across as suspicious to you? Pernicious and the people he subbed in for It appears to me that you have been ignoring this entire thread and simply focusing on AG's scumminess. Honestly, at this point I think your scum trying to push a lynch on a village role.

Lynch pokemaniac212
My logic is that AG was incredibly scummy, and therefore I'm essentially lynching him, hardly bizzare logic. Also, OMGUS much?

I've already given my opinion on Pernicious, and Quagsires, while looking scummy, wasn't as scummy looking as AG. Having said that, since we have a claim of, essentially, guilty on quagsires unvote, lynch quagsires
 
Jalmont it's nothing against you, but you do share the same role as Aura, therefore if Aura is scummy (Which you said yourself that you believed) then that makes you scummy. However, no one is ignoring Pernicious, and Quagsires is about to be lynched. No need to panic about people thinking you're Mafia because of what Aura did, although that makes me more suspicious of you that you would get so worked up when you're not even the main lynch target today.

Lynch Quagsires
 
My logic is that AG was incredibly scummy, and therefore I'm essentially lynching him, hardly bizzare logic. Also, OMGUS much?

I've already given my opinion on Pernicious, and Quagsires, while looking scummy, wasn't as scummy looking as AG. Having said that, since we have a claim of, essentially, guilty on quagsires unvote, lynch quagsires
Look, I understand why you would lynch me because of AG's actions. I get that. But I have been fairly active so far compared to others in the thread. Why would you want to lynch a player who is active in the thread? All I'm saying is that it appears to me that you haven't given any thought to another lynch target but me. Although I guess at this point it doesn't matter either way since Quagsires is confirmed scum.

Jalmont it's nothing against you, but you do share the same role as Aura, therefore if Aura is scummy (Which you said yourself that you believed) then that makes you scummy. However, no one is ignoring Pernicious, and Quagsires is about to be lynched. No need to panic about people thinking you're Mafia because of what Aura did, although that makes me more suspicious of you that you would get so worked up when you're not even the main lynch target today.

Lynch Quagsires
I wouldn't say I'm panicking I just want a better understanding of where pokemaniac is coming from. In my mind I don't think its at all fair to me to lynch me because AG acted like scum. I'm active, and I just find it strage that pokemaniac thinks that out of everyone here I'm the most likely scum. Well, except for Quagsires.
 
Jalmont I'd advise you unbold the lynches in your votes in case they're counted. EDIT: Except you already voted so they wouldn't be counted anyway. Still, you should probably unbold them just to make Walrein's life easier.
 
Look, I understand why you would lynch me because of AG's actions. I get that. But I have been fairly active so far compared to others in the thread. Why would you want to lynch a player who is active in the thread? All I'm saying is that it appears to me that you haven't given any thought to another lynch target but me. Although I guess at this point it doesn't matter either way since Quagsires is confirmed scum.
You don't seem to get it:
Aura plays scummy -> we think he is scum-> you sub in for him -> you get his role pm -> if he was scum, then you are too. You personally may not be playing like scum, but that may be because you are a good player. None the less AG gave plenty of reasons to suspect him as scum, and that naturally falls on to you as his sub. And it's funny you say "you haven't given any though to another lynch target" when you quoted a post where he LYNCHED SOMEONE ELSE.

EDIT: And activity does not necessarily equal cleanliness. Inactivity may be a scum tell however since it implies someone trying to avoid attention.
 

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