Returning to Our Roots NOC Mafia - GAME OVER: The Mafia Wins

Ampharos

elusive, effusive
is a Community Contributor
Mafia Champion
Anyone who saw empoof's role please try to forget it, that was not supposed to be posted.

HE IS MOST DEFINITELY DEAD THOUGH.

Also, anyone who attempts to post his role will be immediately godkilled. No exceptions.
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
What kind of a role is insane one shot question asker??

I assure you that I am village. I assure you that my role states a one shot question asker. Apparently, I'm insane. Wtf.

For the record, my flavor was an old man with a crystal ball. Old men can't be trusted.
 
What kind of a role is insane one shot question asker??

I assure you that I am village. I assure you that my role states a one shot question asker. Apparently, I'm insane. Wtf.
I'll be honest, I don't buy it. But let's say it is true, and you genuinely thought that Quagsires is scum. Why didn't you start a lynch on Quag straight away?
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
I have no idea.

From a balance perspective, I think it would make sense. Considering that we had a backup inspect, it would be fair to also include a insane detect. I also don't recall you saying that you had an abundance of experience in NOC. How would you justify your lynch on me purely on role plausibility considering the limited amount of knowledge you have in game design and balance?
 
I have no idea.

From a balance perspective, I think it would make sense. Considering that we had a backup inspect, it would be fair to also include a insane detect. I also don't recall you saying that you had an abundance of experience in NOC. How would you justify your lynch on me purely on role plausibility considering the limited amount of knowledge you have in game design and balance?
Because you yourself conceded that it was unlikely, and you also said that you had experience in NOC.
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
Right, and that really works if I'm scum.

Stuff that wouldn't make sense if I'm scum:
Day one bus
Constant promotion of discussion. I should have let town die from lack of activity.
Pro town behavior that most people had me down for
Taking a huge and pointless gambit when I was considered town by the entire village
Saying that my role didn't make sense when I was the only person with enough exp in NOC as far as im aware to say so. I would have pulled some BS and said that it was a very common role and probably all of you would have bought it.
 
Right, and that really works if I'm scum.

Stuff that wouldn't make sense if I'm scum:
Day one bus
Constant promotion of discussion. I should have let town die from lack of activity.
Pro town behavior that most people had me down for
Taking a huge gambit when I was considered town by the entire village
Saying that my role didn't make sense when I was the only person with enough exp in NOC to say so. I would have pulled some BS and said that it was a very common role and all of you would have bought it.
1. ?
2. Umm everyone has an imperative to talk. Village = to get lynches Mafia = so they don't get lynched for inactivity
3. You played well then.
4. But it wasn't a gambit if you didn't know you were insane.
5. [Insert WIFOM here]

Seriously though, you have to concede you do look scummy lol.
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
1. What? Yeah, I'm saying that a bus on day 1 is completely ridiculous, especially when put next to a completely pointless lie which would basically lose the trust I gained by bussing. Ergo, it wasn't a bus. Thus, I'm not mafia.
2. I recalling talking and posting much more than all, not just posting to avoid being classified as inactive.
3. Lmao what? I promoted a helluva discussion in town. That would be playing terribly if I were scum.
4. I don't get this. I wouldn't gambit with a completely pointless role that would destroy my almost confirm-town in the eyes of most if I were mafia. I thought that I had found a scum, and thus I claimed and ousted him. I didn't know that I were insane, but judging by flavor I guess it would make sense. What are you saying here?
5. Wouldnt be WIFOM, since none of you would be able to see both sides of the argument.

No I dont, I think that my justifications would prove adequate to most people. Your last sentence seems to be grasping at straws in an attempt to lynch me even when faced with info that proves me town...looks like you're trying to scapegoat me?
 
1. What? Yeah, I'm saying that a bus on day 1 is completely ridiculous, especially when put next to a completely pointless lie which would basically lose the trust I gained by bussing. Ergo, it wasn't a bus. Thus, I'm not mafia.
2. I recalling talking and posting much more than all, not just posting to avoid being classified as inactive.
3. Lmao what? I promoted a helluva discussion in town. That would be playing terribly if I were scum.
4. I don't get this. I wouldn't gambit with a completely pointless role that would destroy my almost confirm-town in the eyes of most if I were mafia. I thought that I had found a scum, and thus I claimed and ousted him. I didn't know that I were insane, but judging by flavor I guess it would make sense. What are you saying here?
5. Wouldnt be WIFOM, since none of you would be able to see both sides of the argument.

No I dont, I think that my justifications would prove adequate to most people. Your last sentence seems to be grasping at straws in an attempt to lynch me even when faced with info that proves me town...looks like you're trying to scapegoat me?
After thinking it through, I can't resolve the logic about the gambit... assuming the premise that the village has no reason to lie regarding their role/results, if you were lying you must be mafia. The only reason mafia would lie like that (that I can think of) is to try and "prove" their role. But if you were trying to prove your role as a QA you would have just outed a mafia team mate, since you would know that Quagsires is village.

Unless of course, you are scum and planned this all in advance.
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
pokemaniac, jalmont, auramaster, you have all been watching. say something.

Oh yeah, and for the record I never saw empoof's role. But by the lack of vig kill on pernicious, i suppose that we can assume he was the vig. which really sucks.

The amount of people who are subbing in and out is fucking ridiculous. -.-
 
Yeah, I presume this sub is for pernicious.

Anyway, as to yesterday, I'm inclined to trust OD on this. Yes he got it wrong, but for mafia to sacrifice one of their own to kill a vanilla makes no sense to me. If he was doctor then I could maybe see it, but even then the mafia would night kill instead. So yeah, while it was unfortunate, I struggle to see how it could possibly have helped the mafia to sacrifice for a vanillager.

As for today, I stand by Jalmont as a target, as well as Pernicious, although since I think he's the latest sub we should wait for the sub to post first.
 
I'm sorry but it is very difficult for me to believe that you are village. A one shot question asker? That makes a littles sense, but then to claim that you are insane is really pushing it. Isn't sanity more an inspector sort of thing? And why would you have an action in the day? And why did you decide to claim/reveal your ability now? For me, there's too many things that just don't make sense and I think you are the scummiest right now.

Lynch Orcinus Duo

Oh and I didn't post earlier as I keep track on my ipod which isn't exactly the best device to be posting with.

Edit:
Yeah, I presume this sub is for pernicious.

Anyway, as to yesterday, I'm inclined to trust OD on this. Yes he got it wrong, but for mafia to sacrifice one of their own to kill a vanilla makes no sense to me. If he was doctor then I could maybe see it, but even then the mafia would night kill instead. So yeah, while it was unfortunate, I struggle to see how it could possibly have helped the mafia to sacrifice for a vanillager.

As for today, I stand by Jalmont as a target, as well as Pernicious, although since I think he's the latest sub we should wait for the sub to post first.
You can't see how this doesn't help the mafia? The more villagers that die, the better chance they have of winning. And you know maybe it isn't a sacrifice because the mafia is confident that they can avoid OD being lynched. You trust OD because the mafia sacrificing a member to kill a vanilla makes no sense to you. But you don't even realize how strange the claim was in the first place, or that a one-shot question asker who is insane is really quite an odd role. You still want to point the finger at me because AG acted like scum, and again it seems to me you're ignoring other possible scum targets to focus on me. Riddle me this: Did AG ever lead a mislynch against a villager? And who exactly has a more believable role? Me or OD?
 
The mafia aren't stupid, they'd know that chances are leading a mislynch against a vanilla would get the person who did it killed, especially in the way it happened. How would it not be stupid for mafia to sacrifice probably their most trusted member for a simple vanillager.
 
The thing is, Quagsires was clearly one of if not our best villager at that point. He was posting a lot, and his posts were almost all very informative and well thought out. A one-for-one between the mafia and village like that inevitably benefits the mafia. Yes, OD had to sacrifice himself to do it, but this late in the game it'll be harder and harder for him to avoid targeting his teammates anyway. We have no more inspection roles, and from what people are saying, potentially no more vig. Now would be a perfect time to do that. The question is, why would OD sacrifice himself and now have one of the less trusted mafia post that? Simple. If it had been anyone else, we wouldn't have trusted it nearly as readily. It's quite likely that we wouldn't have believed the mafia, and it would have forced OD to buddy with that person, potentially giving us two mafia for one. With OD doing it, we trusted him almost readily; after all, he was one of the most trusted villagers, leading us to off one of our most helpful villagers.

As for the role that OD claims, I'm not buying it. First of all, question asker is usually restricted by not being able to ask about Smogon names, roles, and alliances. To be fair, this one is also restricted, but in a different way (one-time and insane), but it's still noteworthy that he's claiming a version of question asker that is rarely seen on Smogon. Speaking of insanity, there is almost always some sort of hint to insanity in an insane inspector's role PM. If there was, then OD should have picked up on it, and if he were village, he should have mentioned that there was a chance his role was insane. Instead he doesn't mention it at all. Finally, a role that can ask a question at any time and get an instant answer is even more odd. If there was a question asker in the game, he would ask his questions at night like every other role. And that is literally the only way to explain his actions; why else would he try to argue us into a Quagsires lynch first, then only after realizing we weren't biting reveal he was a question asker? Either because he's actually telling the truth, which is highly unlikely in my opinion, or because he was mafia trying to get our best villager lynched and didn't have enough sway with the village.

All in all, Lynch Orcinus Duo seems to be the thing to do right now. There are 10 of us left and at least 2 more mafia, possibly 3. We have the room to make at least 1 mislynch if OD happens to be telling the truth, and if he is at this point he's a vanillager and thus role-wise as useless as anyone else could be. While yes, he would also be the best villager left play-wise, we cannot trust him after this, which makes his opinions difficult to believe. Once he's dead, we can build our opinions off of his depending on how he flips.
 
pokemaniac 212 said:
The mafia aren't stupid, they'd know that chances are leading a mislynch against a vanilla would get the person who did it killed, especially in the way it happened. How would it not be stupid for mafia to sacrifice probably their most trusted member for a simple vanillager.
Perhaps they thought Quagsires had a crucial power role, such as vigilante?
Perhaps OD was desperate to save a Mafia member with a crucial power role, such as the Mafia's kill, who might have been lynched (Jalmont or Pernicious)
It's also worth mentioning that Quagsires has been one of the more vocal villagers since he subbed in, which gives the Mafia an extra bonus for killing him.


Orcinus Duo said:
Stuff that wouldn't make sense if I'm scum:
Day one bus
Good point

Orcinus Duo said:
Constant promotion of discussion. I should have let town die from lack of activity.
Ditto promoted discussion and was Mafia

Orcinus Duo said:
Pro town behavior that most people had me down for
Ditto again. Yes you've been much more active over a longer period of time, but you are a more experienced player and should be capable of disguising yourself into the village well.

Orcinus Duo said:
Taking a huge and pointless gambit when I was considered town by the entire village
Another good point, although I already mentioned some reasons why you might have done this, one other reason is that you would be the Mafia member most capable of talking yourself out of being lynched.

Orcinus Duo said:
Saying that my role didn't make sense when I was the only person with enough exp in NOC as far as im aware to say so. I would have pulled some BS and said that it was a very common role and probably all of you would have bought it.
We don't have to be NOC experts to figure out that a village insane one-time Day Question Asker isn't a normal role. Even Walrein wouldn't put a role like that in a Mafia game, especially when you consider the details of the role Flamestrike pointed out (Instant answer, insane without being obviously insane in a Beginner game) it's hard to think of OD as a villager despite his pro-village actions in the game.

However, OD can't be the only Mafia left, unless the Mafia only have 3 members, which I highly doubt. Who else should we consider as possible Mafia?
 
Well, I haven't posted yet becuase we could only start talking 14 hours ago. I'll read through the thread as closely as I can and try to post some comments/reads on people. Expect something later today or tomorrow.
 
Perhaps OD was desperate to save a Mafia member with a crucial power role, such as the Mafia's kill, who might have been lynched (Jalmont or Pernicious).
While this makes sense, neither Pernicious or I were close to being lynched. In fact before everyone lynched Quagsires, the person that was going to be lynched was Engineer Pikachu. If OD is really mafia I think he could have been trying to take off the heat from EP.

The mafia aren't stupid, they'd know that chances are leading a mislynch against a vanilla would get the person who did it killed, especially in the way it happened. How would it not be stupid for mafia to sacrifice probably their most trusted member for a simple vanillager.

Thanks for ignoring my whole post. Flamestrike's post pretty much sums up my whole argument on why OD would do such a thing. I've noticed that you haven't at all talked about the dubious role OD claim. So what are your thoughts on it?
 

Orcinus Duo

Banned deucer.
@flamestrike, Once again, I claimed flavor with an old man with a crystal ball. How the heck was I to know that that was insane? Looked clean to me. -.-

All of you seem to be going after me because of the presumed unlikeliness of my role. Firstly, one shot question asker is a common role in standard. Normally, they are a 'any time of day' role. Then, let us consider balance. Town had an inspect and a backup. To add another information role would overpower town, so insanity would make sense here.

And it's 6 to lynch, so I'm at l-2, don't lynch until close to deadline please.

I'm sorry but it is very difficult for me to believe that you are village. A one shot question asker? That makes a littles sense, but then to claim that you are insane is really pushing it. Isn't sanity more an inspector sort of thing? And why would you have an action in the day? And why did you decide to claim/reveal your ability now?
One shot question asker is a normal role.
Of course I'm claiming insanity, i got an incorrect result on quag. -.-
One shot question asker is technically a form of inspect...
Because normally one shot question askers have roles in the day?
Because I didn't use the ability until now when I inspected Quag and got a scum result.
lol these questions were stupid.

PEOPLE. A ONE SHOT QUESTION ASKER THAT IS ALLOWED TO ASK DURING THE DAY IS A COMMON ROLE. I'VE HAD IT LIKE 3 TIMES BEFORE ON MS. INSANITY IS NOT BUT CONSIDERING BALANCE IT MAKES SENSE.

Why the bloody hell would I bus on day 1, only to piss all that i've worked for away on a completely pointless gambit? I'm town. -.-
 

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