Reuniclus being banned is a ridiculous idea, imo. What I have seen so far is a very effective Pokemon, not an unstoppable force. We'd be moving in the direction of ban-happiness if this were to come true, and that would make me very sad.
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Reuniclus
- Thread starter Pratty
- Start date
Here you go: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3264337&postcount=226
At the moment, it seems Shubarugo and Spiritomb are the best counters for it.
Shubarago and Scizor (barring Hp Fire). Shubarago is especially awesome as it turns Trick Room variants against the opponent as well being ridiculously slow.
Tyranitar (avoiding Focus Blast/if it does not have it which pretty much all do for this poke).
Latias (non Shadow Ball) and Calm Mind along it although Trick Room stinks.
Um....I don't really know any others lol. Just anything that hits it hard and doesn't die after one hit.
For those that is confused by hippo wall subsplit gengar, in my experience Shadow Ball from Subsplit does damage in high 40 % region, allowing me to slack and use my usualy carried elemental fang(blame that epic mole for making me doing this stupidity).
this means if he TR first, i can stall the five turn easier. If he attack, i can slack off the damage. if its the CM variants its a little harder but i hope for the timing to close up with my shubarugo.
Finaly if its the TH variants i definitely fucked by the blob. I must say among variants i have used, TH Rankurusu is my favorite. it serve not as a sweeper some used but as a bait to some of the most popular pokemon to create path for my other member to sweep on. The idea is to equip shitty item that dont hinder him whatsoever and trick them to gliscor (in dory team for example) and other flying type allowing my dory etc to abuse EQ
for example. It can also trick other kind of item and is very very useful. (evo stone ruiner ? hell yeah) For such a traditional tactic i love it
this means if he TR first, i can stall the five turn easier. If he attack, i can slack off the damage. if its the CM variants its a little harder but i hope for the timing to close up with my shubarugo.
Finaly if its the TH variants i definitely fucked by the blob. I must say among variants i have used, TH Rankurusu is my favorite. it serve not as a sweeper some used but as a bait to some of the most popular pokemon to create path for my other member to sweep on. The idea is to equip shitty item that dont hinder him whatsoever and trick them to gliscor (in dory team for example) and other flying type allowing my dory etc to abuse EQ
for example. It can also trick other kind of item and is very very useful. (evo stone ruiner ? hell yeah) For such a traditional tactic i love it
I say banning Reiniclus is a stupid idea. No doubt about it, he's a great pokemon, but compared to other OU powerhouses, it's just another pokemon.
What makes him so good? Is it the 125 Sp Atk + access to Nasty Plot? Is it regeneration/dust guard? I feel that these reasons are not good enough for the thought of banning him. This guy would get raped in Ubers.
What makes him so good? Is it the 125 Sp Atk + access to Nasty Plot? Is it regeneration/dust guard? I feel that these reasons are not good enough for the thought of banning him. This guy would get raped in Ubers.
@Dr. Alex
Look at the explanations of those who want it banned.
Reuniclus is obviously a massive powerhouse if played right. It's CM set breaks stall because of it's bulk, recover, and Magic Guard. The Trick Room breaks offensive teams because of it's High Sp. Atk combined with it's low speed to take advantage of Trick Room.
Look at the explanations of those who want it banned.
Reuniclus is obviously a massive powerhouse if played right. It's CM set breaks stall because of it's bulk, recover, and Magic Guard. The Trick Room breaks offensive teams because of it's High Sp. Atk combined with it's low speed to take advantage of Trick Room.
He's good because he's ridiculously difficult to OHKO, has access to instant recovery, can boost, immunity to Toxic, entry hazards, burn, everything like that, perfect coverage, stat distribution in all the right places.
I don't think he's broken, but there is just so many reasons why he's good. Magic Guard is one of the best abilities in the game.
The only problem he has is that Psychic is the worst type in the world in terms of weakness, although with all the fighting types around, even that is excellent.
!!!!!!
Does not matter how he does in Ubers.
Wait, he gets Nasty Plot? I don't see it in it's movepool, but I digress. And his performance in ubers has no bearing on his performance in OU, which is why some are nominating him as a suspect. Ubers serves mainly as a banlist to OU, even if a metagame is built around it.
I think the main arguments for his banning are mainly geared towards the TR and CM+Recover variants, which respectively can do extremely well against offense and stall respectively. 110/75/85 defenses are deceptively bulky as well, and Magic Guard is the best defensive ability in the game bar none. The TR set works with his abysmal speed (not that it matters) and TR makes it the "fastest" Pokemon you will see commonly. 125 SpAtk is nice as well, and with most sets, Reuniclus doesn't even need investment in it's offensive stats to do well.
Let's start with the CM+Recover set. Both moves work extremely well together, letting it boost against the likes of stall with near impunity. It can then follow up with two good moves that let it deconstruct entire teams. For example:
Reuniclus @Life Orb/Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Nature: Bold
Ability: Magic Guard
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psycho Shock
- HP Fighting/Focus Blast
The EV spread provides for 424 HP, 276 Def, and 206 SpDef. That is amazing. That kind of bulk rivals Vaporeon, only with a superior ability in Magic Guard, meaning that no passive damage hurts it. For stall teams that rely on spikes, stealth rock, and chip damage, this is very bad news. Even it would-be counters have to be careful around it, especially Tyranitar. For the sake of argument, suppose Tyranitar switches in on Reniculus while it Calm Minds. It could run, but it's got the bulk to take the hit. If it stays in on Pursuit, Tyranitar actually turns into set-up bait, but more on damage calcs later. Let's assume he boosted, and it comes to Crunch vs HP Fighting. I'm assuming a max hp/no spdef variant, neutral nature.
Sandstorm Results Min: Avg: Max: Raw damage:316 344 376Percentages:78.22% 85.15% 93.07%
With SR, it's very close, if not outright a guaranteed OHKO with HP Fighting. Focus Blast KOs outright no matter what spread it runs. Just for the sake of Tyranitar's maximum power, let's measure an Adamant CBTar's Crunch vs the same set:
604 Atk vs 276 Def & 424 HP (80 Base Power): 378 - 446 (89.15% - 105.19%)
28% of a OHKO. That's the absolute best Tyranitar can manage coming in. If it's not a Band variant, it loses. If it throws out Pursuit, just halve the damage, to a mere 45-52%. He'd need to pull two good damage rolls to 2HKO, and if it's not Banded in that case, it turns immediately into setup bait. Let that one sink in for a moment: Tyranitar, one of the best anti-psychics, is setup bait to one. The problem is that no one really runs Band Tyranitar, and the other sets fail against this thing. Max HP/SpDef spreads suffer from the fact it has no power, and loses anyway. Tyranitar fails to counter it unless it can get in after it's taken prior damage, and even then you still have to win the mindgame of either nailing it with Crunch and it stays in and Pursuit on a switch. It's very easy to see the problem here.
The best answers to this set would be a flinch Jirachi, who outspeeds and resists it's repertoire well. Metagross works for similar reasons, as does Scizor and Shubarugo, who can abuse outright powerful STABs that can OHKO it, although Scizor's U-turn does about:
591 Atk vs 276 Def & 424 HP (70 Base Power): 320 - 380 (75.47% - 89.62%)
Can't KO it outright, but it will hurt. Bug Bite guarantees the OHKO. As for Shubarugo, it has fantastic defenses, a REALLY powerful STAB Megahorn, and the added bonus of "outspeeding" Reuniclus in Trick Room. Aianto works similarly with a Hustle X-scissor, but then accuracy risks come into play unless it's a Claw Sharpen variant, and it's terrible special defense hurts the prospect of it killing it somewhat.
Special hitters are a different prospect, but one Calm Mind basically guarantees that nothing can OHKO you on that spectrum unless it's specs Gengar or some shit.
In terms of flaws, Ranku's speed hurts it a lot at times bar the TR set, it has four-moveslot syndrome that's worse than Dragonite, and it really has no massive resistance sets to work with. Take advantage of the fact it doesn't have awesome coverage and play around it, as they're very predictable once you see their first move. It's prime OU material, but I really doubt people are stupid enough to ban something they couldn't adapt to. The metagame is still rapidly evolving for fuck's sake.
I think the main arguments for his banning are mainly geared towards the TR and CM+Recover variants, which respectively can do extremely well against offense and stall respectively. 110/75/85 defenses are deceptively bulky as well, and Magic Guard is the best defensive ability in the game bar none. The TR set works with his abysmal speed (not that it matters) and TR makes it the "fastest" Pokemon you will see commonly. 125 SpAtk is nice as well, and with most sets, Reuniclus doesn't even need investment in it's offensive stats to do well.
Let's start with the CM+Recover set. Both moves work extremely well together, letting it boost against the likes of stall with near impunity. It can then follow up with two good moves that let it deconstruct entire teams. For example:
Reuniclus @Life Orb/Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Nature: Bold
Ability: Magic Guard
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psycho Shock
- HP Fighting/Focus Blast
The EV spread provides for 424 HP, 276 Def, and 206 SpDef. That is amazing. That kind of bulk rivals Vaporeon, only with a superior ability in Magic Guard, meaning that no passive damage hurts it. For stall teams that rely on spikes, stealth rock, and chip damage, this is very bad news. Even it would-be counters have to be careful around it, especially Tyranitar. For the sake of argument, suppose Tyranitar switches in on Reniculus while it Calm Minds. It could run, but it's got the bulk to take the hit. If it stays in on Pursuit, Tyranitar actually turns into set-up bait, but more on damage calcs later. Let's assume he boosted, and it comes to Crunch vs HP Fighting. I'm assuming a max hp/no spdef variant, neutral nature.
Sandstorm Results Min: Avg: Max: Raw damage:316 344 376Percentages:78.22% 85.15% 93.07%
With SR, it's very close, if not outright a guaranteed OHKO with HP Fighting. Focus Blast KOs outright no matter what spread it runs. Just for the sake of Tyranitar's maximum power, let's measure an Adamant CBTar's Crunch vs the same set:
604 Atk vs 276 Def & 424 HP (80 Base Power): 378 - 446 (89.15% - 105.19%)
28% of a OHKO. That's the absolute best Tyranitar can manage coming in. If it's not a Band variant, it loses. If it throws out Pursuit, just halve the damage, to a mere 45-52%. He'd need to pull two good damage rolls to 2HKO, and if it's not Banded in that case, it turns immediately into setup bait. Let that one sink in for a moment: Tyranitar, one of the best anti-psychics, is setup bait to one. The problem is that no one really runs Band Tyranitar, and the other sets fail against this thing. Max HP/SpDef spreads suffer from the fact it has no power, and loses anyway. Tyranitar fails to counter it unless it can get in after it's taken prior damage, and even then you still have to win the mindgame of either nailing it with Crunch and it stays in and Pursuit on a switch. It's very easy to see the problem here.
The best answers to this set would be a flinch Jirachi, who outspeeds and resists it's repertoire well. Metagross works for similar reasons, as does Scizor and Shubarugo, who can abuse outright powerful STABs that can OHKO it, although Scizor's U-turn does about:
591 Atk vs 276 Def & 424 HP (70 Base Power): 320 - 380 (75.47% - 89.62%)
Can't KO it outright, but it will hurt. Bug Bite guarantees the OHKO. As for Shubarugo, it has fantastic defenses, a REALLY powerful STAB Megahorn, and the added bonus of "outspeeding" Reuniclus in Trick Room. Aianto works similarly with a Hustle X-scissor, but then accuracy risks come into play unless it's a Claw Sharpen variant, and it's terrible special defense hurts the prospect of it killing it somewhat.
Special hitters are a different prospect, but one Calm Mind basically guarantees that nothing can OHKO you on that spectrum unless it's specs Gengar or some shit.
In terms of flaws, Ranku's speed hurts it a lot at times bar the TR set, it has four-moveslot syndrome that's worse than Dragonite, and it really has no massive resistance sets to work with. Take advantage of the fact it doesn't have awesome coverage and play around it, as they're very predictable once you see their first move. It's prime OU material, but I really doubt people are stupid enough to ban something they couldn't adapt to. The metagame is still rapidly evolving for fuck's sake.
The line is drawn if the thing in question is very overpowered and centralized in the metagame (Like Garchomp in Gen 4), in a nutshell basically. However, Reuniclus may be good, but its by no means an unstoppable threat in the metagame.
If it didn't have the terrible typing and coverage i might support banning this with testing, but a psychic type that desperately relies on focus blast isn't even worth nominating as a suspect in my experience. It is easily worked by playing around its coverage with u-turn (psychic/fighting both have immunities, sometimes on the same pokemon), and it's also rendered useless by trick.
I'm not saying it's a bad pokemon or anything like that (it's actually really good, although it is massively overhyped thanks to its awesome design), but this thing is far from broken.
I'm not saying it's a bad pokemon or anything like that (it's actually really good, although it is massively overhyped thanks to its awesome design), but this thing is far from broken.
Reuniclus by no means centralises the metagame, but that's not to say he's not a threat.
I agree that he probably shouldn't be banned, but this isn't really relevant. Even setting aside that Ubers is still technically a ban list, the bottom of a given tier always won't see much play. Nobody used Wynaut outside of gimmick teams last gen, but he was still Uber.
It's getting to a point where I really just want to outright ignore anyone with assumed prejudices based on common turns of phrase, but for the record I just want to emphasize that Psychic is not a terrible type in any sense, especially in a metagame where we have such powerful Fighting types that just own the shit out of everything unless you're packing at least two casual resists or one very defensive resist. There aren't a lot of sturdy Flying types packing the moves to beat them either, so having a good Psychic on your team is very recommendable in this meta, even if it's just Rank or one of the Lati twins.
Even with Tyranitar and Scizor, or even Steels still being very common, I don't think this dumb rumor would have ever come to fruition had it not been represented by such relatively poor Psychic types with simple movepools or low defenses that make them liabilities in the presence of the aforementioned threats.
Even with Tyranitar and Scizor, or even Steels still being very common, I don't think this dumb rumor would have ever come to fruition had it not been represented by such relatively poor Psychic types with simple movepools or low defenses that make them liabilities in the presence of the aforementioned threats.
As for 'terrible typing' see below. You seem to be very strongly against to Focus Blast; it really isn't that bad a move. A Pokemon that uses it often to beat threats isn't terrible. I'm not a supporter of suspecting or banning at all, I'm just sayin'.
This this a thousand times this. Psychic-typing in and of itself is hardly a liability; it's the crappy defenses that many Psychics have that make 'em weaker.
No, psychic typing can be a major problem because of Pursuit weak, look at lati@s. Even though latias doesn't have shabby defense, if it's not invested in she's scared of ttars and even scizor's pursuits. But that doesn't really apply in Reuinclus's case, making psychic a pretty decent typing. You just need to not want to switch out or very high, invested-into, defenses.
Psychic is a mediocre typing.
-Only hits Poison and Fighting types for SE.
-Only resists Fighting and lolPsychic
-Has 3 common weaknesses
-Only hits Poison and Fighting types for SE.
-Only resists Fighting and lolPsychic
-Has 3 common weaknesses
I agree, I still see the likes of Heatran, Roobushin and Shandera far far far more often than this guy
That is in the dream world tier, though, so you can probably ignore Shandera here for now, but I'm sure they will be used a lot once shadow tag is released.
I can understand why it could be banned. I ran into one recently and didn't expect it to be much of a problem as they usually are easily handled...but my opponent killed all of my physical attackers and it was game over from there. Its Sp. Defense cannot be broken. And it just healed up even if I hit it with everything I had. I could't kill it with Toxic thanks to its ability. So the only way to kill it was with a strong Phys attack which I did not have.
I had one hope left but it trick roomed and out speeded it. It is a VERY capable Pokemon and if played right its freaking amazing. O_o Do I HAVE to start packing sucker punch?
I had one hope left but it trick roomed and out speeded it. It is a VERY capable Pokemon and if played right its freaking amazing. O_o Do I HAVE to start packing sucker punch?
Just like any sweeper.
Once anything that can threaten it is gone,it'll be able to sweep. Why does Reuniclus have to be different?
Well,I don't run Sucker Punch. I just run a Dark type along with a Ghost/Fighting resist and try to play around him in a way where my strongest mon ends up on his last TR turn to kill him.