Gen 4 RoA Speed BKCCAT 2 - Step 6: Final Adjustments

#51
I'm going to throw in a last minute submission for SubCharge Lanturn as well~


Lanturn @ Leftovers
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 56 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk)
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Playstyle: Bulky Offense

SubCharge Lanturn is a lot of fun to play with and it actually works pretty decently. It has good coverage and can often get at least to +1 and damage something. It doesn't have a high base SpA but once it can gain a couple of boosts (sometimes to +3), it wrecks. Rarely does it sweep at the first set up but for each time it gets to +1 and above, its checks and counters are worn down repeatedly till it can finally pull off a full sweep. It does have it flaws like being terribly weak to status and Toxic Spikes. But I'd like to see how CCAT can build a team around it if it does get voted lol.

____

Also SD Venusaur, SubCM Raikou, and SD Gliscor all look great as well. SD Venusaur and Gliscor hardly even exist and SubCM Raikou is very underused despite it being pretty good. Most submissions here are setup Pokemon too though! Onto votings~
 
#52
Step 2: Playstyle & Starting Pokemon Voting

There wasn't as much discussion going on as I hoped! Hopefully it'll pick up after this~~



Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Overgrow
EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, - SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Power Whip
- Earthquake

Playstyle: Offense [don't know if we should go Bulky Offense or HO though]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venusaur/ou


Alright, so hear me out. I really like the concept of SD Venusaur and I think it can do well against a myriad of playstyles. Heatran, Tyranitar, and Zapdos are very common in DPP OU and Venusaur does well against the most common sets you'll see. Also, Grass types are typically special attackers in this metagame[read: Shaymin, Celebi, Roserade], so this'll throw people for a loop.

Anyway, the concept is that Venusaur comes in on either a free switch after a teammate is KO'd or something it can force out like Swampert, Vaporeon, or defensive Tentacruel. Sleep Powder the switch and then you get a free turn to SD. Venusaur 2HKO's nearly everything in the meta once boosted. Saur is quite bulky as well, especially compared to something similar like SD Breloom. SubRoost Zapdos needs Hidden Power Ice to have a chance at beating it, otherwise it isn't touching Venusaur. Specially Defensive variants damage it with Heat Wave, but Saur outspeeds and 2HKO's at +2. ScarfTar cannot OHKO with Stone Edge. The only Heatran set that beats it is Choice Scarf, a legit set but very rare IMO. Otherwise all Tran are OHKO'd by Earthquake. Choice Scarf Jirachi can only revenge kill when Venusaur is at 53%. Leech Seed Shaymin has a chance to lose to it 1 on 1 since Saur outspeeds it. Bronzong is sometimes 2HKO'd by Power Whip. Keep it mind we don't HAVE to use Sleep Powder. Return, Sludge Bomb and maybe even Double-Edge are good options if we want more coverage. I don't want to mention too much from the analysis though, so if you want to look at that click above. There are some nice calcs on there as well.

The biggest concerns IMO are Skarmory, Physically Defensive Celebi, Dragonite and...I guess Choice Band Scizor(this can be worn down easily enough). But hey, that's what teammates are for right? ;)


Lucario @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Agility

Playstile: Bulky Offense

You all know how SD Luce works. You probably all know how physically based Agility Luce works as well. But this set is different. It doesn't suffer from the usual Moveslot-syndrome where you have to choose between either hitting Ghost-Types with Crunch or Gliscor + Dragons with Ice Punch and still have to worry about a super fast Gliscor or a Scarf-Rotom ruining your day. This set doesn't care about them all, OHKOing Gliscor as well as any Rotom set but specially defensive ones (which are rare). Skarmory won't wall it anytime soon, Hippo is OHKOed after some prior damage and so is Zapdos. Of course there are some drawbacks. Luce needs a free-turn to set-up which can be pretty hard, it needs some prior damage to work accordingly and it suffers a lot from Spikes. And, well, there are still some Pokes that check it decently, like Gyarados and Mach Punch Infernape.

To solve a lot of these problems, Starmie would make a nice partner. It spins away those pesky Hazards, walls Gyarados and Infernape to hell and back and lures in the likes of Tyranitar or Scizor allowing Luce to set-up while they're locked into Pursuit or Crunch. There might be better teammates though so I don't want to submit it as a partner but it's a nice option I guess.

Raikou @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 48 HP / 56 Def / 184 SAtk / 220 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute / Rest
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

playstyle: bulky offense / stall-based balance (aka "semistall")

no one seems to remember this monster. it tears the oh-so-common fwg teams apart and is a devastating end-game cleaner. it's not exactly creative but it sure is underused and underrated.

tspikes are the #1 partner for raikou. they wear down its counters like bliss, hippo, ttar, pert... which leaves spdef heatran as the only real safe counter, who will lose against last mon rest kou (i don't recommend using dugtrio though because he is gay).


Gliscor @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Sand Veil / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Night Slash
- Substitute / Roost

Playstyle: (Offensive-based) Balanced / Bulky Offense

These days, it seems the DPP OU metagame has not been kind to Gliscor. The classic stallbreaker set is not as useful as it once was due to the much more offensive game than what we were working with near the end of Gen 4. While stall definitely maintains a presence, offense is stronger than ever. And with new offensive sets/combinations still appearing even today, sometimes, he's just not up to snuff playing a general defensive role instead of a utility expert. It certainly doesn't help with the many Water types such as Starmie, Suicune, Empoleon, or Vaporeon running around.

He can still use Stealth Rock pretty reliably, and his decent speed allows him to still harass slower Pokemon like he always has, but you cannot throw him onto any team anymore and expect him to do work like some of the other Pokemon in the tier.

Can Gliscor find himself making an impact with his own offensive set instead of a defensive or utility one?

It's pretty safe to say that the set is rarely seen, and for good reason. While his decent stats (including a 95 base Speed) make the set possible, he lacks the raw power to break through most of the bulky Pokemon even when set up. His typing is cool, giving him a STAB earthquake and the ability to avoid Spikes/TSpikes and take only neutral damage to Stealth Rock, but gives him extremely exploitable weaknesses in Ice and Water, the types that give him the most trouble in the first place. He can't just slap on a Yache Berry like Garchomp could back in the day, because that would help remove only one of the key weaknesses.

I'm proposing two different versions of the set. One that utilizes Sand Veil (and old pleasure of mine when Garchomp was originally banned) or the more standard set with Hyper Cutter.

Sand Veil harks back to "getting that one crucial miss at the right/wrong time." Depending on the Pokemon you're up against, you either use Swords Dance or Substitute. Continue setting up, hopefully buying time with Sand Veil and Leftovers recovery. When ready, proceed to sweep the opponent, with the evasion boost backing you up. The nice thing about Sand Veil is that a +1 LO Stone Edge still OHKOs the standard Bulky DD Gyarados, so the loss of Hyper Cutter isn't the worst thing.

Hyper Cutter is a great option for keeping his Attack from being cut down by Intimidate. Stone Edge will OHKO any Gyarados nearly 100% of the time without SR damage and will allow him to hit the rest of the opposing team as hard as he can with Earthquake.

If we are to run with Sand Veil, Tyranitar or Hippowdon are required as a teammate to throw up the sandstorm. Both sets will appreciate entry hazards (which Hippowdon is excellent at doing). Checks and counters to faster Pokemon capable of killing or crippling Gliscor are also very much appreciated. Bulkier threats who he might not be able to one-shot with a boosted Earthquake or coverage move are good ideas to have covered. Employing Spikes/TSpikes on our own team and phasing them out will soften those threats up.
I propose that we go for a stall-oriented playstyle. In gen 5 (esp. bw2), stall is pretty much impossible due to the abundance of threats. In gen 4, it is still somewhat feasible. Therefor I suggest we build a TSS team, relying mostly on spikes, toxic and sandstorm (from either hippow or ttar).



Item: Choice Band
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Shard
~ Stone Edge
~ Superpower / Stealth Rock
I'm going to throw in a last minute submission for SubCharge Lanturn as well~


Lanturn @ Leftovers
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 148 SpD / 56 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA -Atk)
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Playstyle: Bulky Offense

SubCharge Lanturn is a lot of fun to play with and it actually works pretty decently. It has good coverage and can often get at least to +1 and damage something. It doesn't have a high base SpA but once it can gain a couple of boosts (sometimes to +3), it wrecks. Rarely does it sweep at the first set up but for each time it gets to +1 and above, its checks and counters are worn down repeatedly till it can finally pull off a full sweep. It does have it flaws like being terribly weak to status and Toxic Spikes. But I'd like to see how CCAT can build a team around it if it does get voted lol.
Vote for:
JackieChun
Lohgock
BKC
Aerodactyl Legend
HUARGH
sandshrewz

This will last ~24 hours!
 

BKC

is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
Past Gens Champion
#57
can i vote for myself? if so, i do. if not, then JackieChun. sd venusaur seems interesting.

btw cb mamo is a total waste of its potential! if we go with it, gotta go with life orb
 
#63
Voting for yourself is rather pointless
Voting for yourself is certainly not pointless, you'd be defending your idea/submission.

I'd really like to see what other people's views would be on using Gliscor in the current metagame, but I'm definitely starting to get interested in trying Venusaur, so I'll say JackieChun.
 
#65
Guys, we can vote for our own. It is allowed, especially since it's happened in previous CCATs. I'd ask first about changing your vote if you want to change it, but I don't see why you couldn't since that's happened in previous CCATs too lol

Obv. I vote JackieChun
 
#73
Step 3: Teammates

BKC 8
HUARGH 3
JackieChun 5
Lohgock 3

booohooo no love for Lanturn :( haha. Moving on!


Raikou @ Leftovers / Chesto Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 48 HP / 56 Def / 184 SAtk / 220 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute / Rest
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

playstyle: bulky offense / semi-stall

Nominate a teammate or a core of up to 3 maximum. This will last ~48 hours. :)

For clarifcation, there's a lot of slashes here, feel free to assume whichever slash you want to use for your submission. Also, remember to indicate the lead if there's a dedicated lead. And yea in future, you can vote for yourself~ Thanks! :) gogo~
 

BKC

is a Team Rater Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis the Smogon Tour Season 22 Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon Champion
Past Gens Champion
#74
ok, the following stand in the way of a raikou sweep -

- ttar
- scarf flygon
- blissey
- swampert
- hippowdon
- heatran (the sdef sets are hard counters but any set can be an annoyance)
- scizor (kind of)

so! toxic spikes wear away at ttar/bliss/pert/hippo and are extremely effective in general. therefore i'm nominating Roserade.


Roserade (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP / 248 SAtk / 228 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Toxic Spikes
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Ground]


rose functions much better mid-game than as a lead. with hp ground, heatran is taken care of, leaving only scizor and scarf gon, two incredibly easy mons to counter, unchecked thus far. a bulky spread is a viable alternative but you'd be surprised at how threatening a fast, powerful roserade is. rose also absorbs opposing tspikes that would ruin raikou's day.
 
#75
I quite like Roserade, don't forget that Raikou without rest is also weak to Toxic Spikes. (and I strongly prefer a sub/cm Raikou, I don't think I have ever found rest Raikou or resttalk Raikou to be useful, feels like Suicune is more suited for that) Roserade can remove them, while at the same time having the ability to lay down toxic spikes herself and threatening some of Raikou's counters (Swampert, TTar, ...,) with strong grass STAB. It also has sleep powder at her disposal. Still, there are some problems.

1. Roserade is frail as fuck to physical attacks, sporting a very small def and hp stat. Sub/CM Raikou is obviously going to be threatened out by physical attacks (or well, usually). The most common one is definitely going to be earthquake, which Roserade does not resist due to her grass/poison typing and thus cannot switch into. I feel that a partner for Raikou should be one that can switch into at least earthquake without too much of a problem.

Raikou resists steel and flying due to his electric typing (which are somewhat rare compared to ground/rock/fighting attacks anyway), so if the switch-in is weak to these types it is less of a problem. A grass type gets the nod, being resistant to earthquake and threatening both ground and rock with super-effective STAB as well as scaring Swampert shitless. This would also allow Raikou to comfortably run HP Ice for better coverage.

The obvious choices here are Celebi and/or Shaymin, both sporting enough offensive power and bulk to take earthquakes and even the occasional stone edge, both having access to reliable recovery methods (recover for Celebi, rest + natural cure for Shaymin). Speaking of natural cure, they both have it, meaning that they wouldn't mind switching into Blissey (who usually carries status) either who is commonly sent out to wall and s-toss Raikou to death. However, none can really hurt Blissey, the exception being physical Celebi or a braindead Blissey who lets Celebi CM up. I think we can all agree that physical Celebi sucks and also loses strong STAB against ground and rock types, which is still important due to Raikou being weak to EQ.

Despite these two obvious contestants, I would like to nominate Tangrowth. While it may seem like a somewhat odd suggestion, Tangrowth boasts a titanic def/hp stat and most importantly access to knock off and sleep powder. Another bonus is that it is a physical threat whereas Raikou is a special threat, meaning that high sp.def low def pokemons who switched into Raikou will be hit harder. It is very likely able to switch in on any attack that would normally force Raikou out. It can then proceed to use knock off or sleep powder, while still threatening a 120 power STAB power whip off a respectable attack stat. As a bonus, knock off and sleep powder polarizes the enemy's switching pattern, as they generally want to switch the already itemless pokemon into a predicted knock-off, or the sleeping pokemon in an attempt to get free sleep turns. This allows for intelligent double switching. As our playstyle is apparently bulky offense, we have a great pokemon in Tangrowth with knock off and sleep powder. We can use another pokemon to set up/remove toxic spikes and perhaps a cleric somewhere as well.


Tangrowth @ Leftovers
252 hp / 252 def / 4 atk
~ Power Whip
~ Knock Off
~ Sleep Powder
~ Filler, i.e. Earthquake / Rest / Stun Spore / Leech Seed / Reflect / Toxic
 

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