I don't like this set. Why wouldn't you use Life Orb and Thunderbolt / Shadowball / SubSplit? It's Gengar with better STAB coverage and typing. Also, max speed is stupid if you arent running offensive. Why would you tie with other Rotom when you can't hit the damn thing?
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Rotom-A (SubSplit)
- Thread starter Curtains
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a rotom with toxic is not going to get approved by me anytime soon, especially when it has access to WoW
I think will-o-wisp is quite over rated on rotom-a. If t-tar comes in, you still take a ass load from crunch / pursuit. heatran can come in and kill u with stab +1 fb/flame thrower. Blissey /zapdos/vaporeon etc are not phased by will-o-wisp as they can recover off the damages. The only huge thing that can suffer from will-o-wisp is really agility metagross and other physical steels like iron head jirachi which you can hit and they struggle to ko you. In most situations where pokemon come in to wall i always wished i had more than will-o-wisp shit 75% accuracy and 12% health reduction. Toxic sub split rotom always insures you beat scarm bliss and even if they do switch in t-tar or heatran you can still hit them for decent damage.
i dont even know where to begin, i have a lot of experience with sub rotom I used it a lot during suspect testing. WoW on rotom is a pretty big deal, residual damage on things like vappy and zapdos are always welcome on teams and with SS being pretty common in play its just not that simple to simply recover it off. sure a heatran can come in on you but if you are behind a sub whats the big deal? heatran does have counters anyways.
It's really odd that we don't have a sub split Rotom-A set on-site, seeing as this set is fairly common and very good. I personally have used Toxic instead of WoW before and it proved to be fairly effective (but my team was trying to take out Blissey for a special attacker to sweep late game, so that was more practical). I wouldn't mind Toxic in AC, but yeah, WoW gets the primary nod. To be honest, I don't even see the merit in mentioning Hydro Pump on this set; you have no investment in SpA, so you're not going to be doing too much damage either way, so you might as well stick to a more reliable move in Thunderbolt, and leave your final option up for status support.
Anyways, I will be approving this set for sure, but I would like to open the floor for some alternative EV spreads first. Rotom-A is the one Pokemon on-site that needs a ton of major EV revamps, because the ones on-site are random as hell, and Rotom-A can pull off some incredible stuff with the right spread. So yeah, let's hear your spreads folks!
Anyways, I will be approving this set for sure, but I would like to open the floor for some alternative EV spreads first. Rotom-A is the one Pokemon on-site that needs a ton of major EV revamps, because the ones on-site are random as hell, and Rotom-A can pull off some incredible stuff with the right spread. So yeah, let's hear your spreads folks!
I like the 252hp/252 Speed spread. Outspeeds suicune and special defensive zapdos so i can get the toxic/will-o-wisp off , it also has the bulk to keep its sub in tact.
Swamperts ice beam 18.4% - 22%
Defensive celebi HP fire 15.8% - 18.8%
specially defensive zapdos tbolt 19.4% - 22.7%
jirachi's iron head 15.8% - 18.8%
just to name a few.
I really think toxic should be a actual slash. It beats celebi 1 on 1 ,blissey,special defensive zapdos (very popular),swampert and mostly anything that can take the toxic and have a recovery move like hippowdon. It works great with entry hazards .Anything that you hit will o wisp with cant really touch you regardless outside of t-tar.
I'm going to have to agree with the people that say Toxic should be relegated to AC. Toxic may be useful for stalling out Pokemon, but Will-O-Wisp isn't nearly as far spread as Toxic, and has much more utility when compared to Toxic. While Toxic is a slow and steady death, Will-O-Wisp cripples every physical attacker out there that isn't a Fire-type, making it virtually useless for the rest of the match.
The most important part of SubSplit Rotom-A imo is that it allows Rotom to get more reliable recovery in sandstorm without resorting to ResTalk and becoming ScarfTar bait. Stall teams I've played use Scarf Rotom, which i find are worn down much more quickly than SubSplit Rotom. Ive been using a set using Substitute/TBolt/SB/Pain Split. Subbing after coming in on Metagross/Scizor/whatever allows to to scout whether or not the opponent even has a ScarfTar. The threat of Hydro Pump (in July, 71% ran hydro pump) scares off TTar for at least a little while. (Rotom-H could be used to scare off Forretress more quickly, but w/e).
The world cup team I used in round 1 ran a much more offensive sub split set with max speed and close to max sp atk with hydro and it worked pretty well. It just depends on your team really, I needed the sp.atk to deal with cune better and it worked well enough. Just saying, maybe maybe timid 252 speed, 16 hp, 240 sp.atk is wirth a mention.
I've been thinking about this set for a while again, and yeah, Hydro Pump with no SpA EVs isn't going any farther. The way I envision this set on-site is with two spreads listed, because it's impossible to say that just one would be the most indicated to use for every situation in which this Rotom could possibly get in. IMO, for the bulky spread is perfectly fine to have listed the following moves: T-bolt / Pain Split / Substitute / WoW, since you're basically aiming to be annoying as hell and cause switches and status changes with WoW, and when needed, hit something with your main STAB. The 252 SpA / 252 Spd (or something similar) should be the other spread IMO, with Hydro Pump as a slash and generally geared towards the offensive side. Also, I'm ok with Toxic being mentioned in AC.
Let's hear what the other QC guys think ;)
Let's hear what the other QC guys think ;)
The problem this thread seems to be encountering is that this sub split rotom is trying to do too much...it either plays more defensively or offensively but it can't do both. There needs to be a defensive sub split set as well as an offensive sub split set. The defensive set can be offensive at times and the offensive set can be used as a defensive check but they really should stick to what they do best depending on ev placement. While similar the sets differentiate enough and play differently enough I would heavily advise against slashing.
Offensive sub-split
Rotom-A @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP/252 Spd/242 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Pain Split
This set plays like a slower but bulkier gengar. Electric/Ghost has phenomenal coverage and both are stabs. 16 hp ev's are just enough that 0 spc attack blissey never breaks your sub while giving you enough special attack to always 2hko heatran. Pairs well with toxic spikes.
Defensive sub split
Rotom-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
- Substitute
- Pain Split
Yes, max speed is that helpful. Straight forward spread, meant to take hits decently. Instead of attacking swampert and flygon etc you burn them instead. After switching to something like pert and seeing a sub, most people will opt to break the sub rather than switch back out and give you another free turn, allowing you to burn a lot of things the more defensive set wouldn't. Best paired with calm minders who can now set up on a burnt pokemon. Please do not pair this with toxic spikes as it defeats the purpose of burning...It can be used with twave as a lot of the mons you want to burn are immune to twave.
Offensive sub-split
Rotom-A @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP/252 Spd/242 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Pain Split
This set plays like a slower but bulkier gengar. Electric/Ghost has phenomenal coverage and both are stabs. 16 hp ev's are just enough that 0 spc attack blissey never breaks your sub while giving you enough special attack to always 2hko heatran. Pairs well with toxic spikes.
Defensive sub split
Rotom-A @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/6 Def/252 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
- Substitute
- Pain Split
Yes, max speed is that helpful. Straight forward spread, meant to take hits decently. Instead of attacking swampert and flygon etc you burn them instead. After switching to something like pert and seeing a sub, most people will opt to break the sub rather than switch back out and give you another free turn, allowing you to burn a lot of things the more defensive set wouldn't. Best paired with calm minders who can now set up on a burnt pokemon. Please do not pair this with toxic spikes as it defeats the purpose of burning...It can be used with twave as a lot of the mons you want to burn are immune to twave.
Thanks Scof, I was hoping you would post. I'm approving both spreads, with the primary being the bulky version, and the offensive LO version being AC material.
Edit: Scofield expressed the desire to split this into two different analyses for Rotom-A. I wanted to get some feedback as to what everybody else thinks before putting my two cents in.
Edit: Scofield expressed the desire to split this into two different analyses for Rotom-A. I wanted to get some feedback as to what everybody else thinks before putting my two cents in.
I'd rather have two seperate analyses: "Offensive Subsplit" and "Defensive Subsplit" as they both play somewhat differently. Would Leftovers be worth a slash on the offensive set or does it need LO?
Anyway this is my approval for what Scofield posted and having two seperate analyses
Anyway this is my approval for what Scofield posted and having two seperate analyses
Some trends I found while testing out offensive SubSplit:
Notable trends in orange.
Oh, and friendly reminder: If you get one more QC stamp, the sets get transferred to the Rotom-A (New Analysis) in QC.
Notable trends in orange.
- Most Swampert will switch out in fear of a Rotom-A without Leftovers, fearing the possibility of Trick and Choice items.
- Provided Blissey isn't suspicious, Rotom-A and Blissey one-on-one, in my experience, always ends up with Rotom-A the winner.
- Rotom-A also escapes with a Substitute intact after beating Blissey, Toxic Spikes or not. You can still take another opponent out using this.
- Breloom using Spore are totally trolled.
- Heatran will be eager to switch into this thing, and nearly leaves you scathed if you take one Fire Blast or Flamethrower.
- Beats most other Rotom appliances with Stealth Rock support. The only ones that beat me were those that ran Max Speed, which isn't that much.
- Forces Starmie out immediately, surprisingly. Even the Life Orb variants are scared of full health Rotom-A.
- Counters Snorlax as it could Blissey, to a lesser extent. Beware of Crunch.
- A surprisingly good counter to Crocune even after Suicune uses Calm Mind once.
- Fucked by Tyranitar if it doesn't have a Substitute. Gengar also eats this thing to pieces.
- Lack of reliable recovery if your opponent has low HP (Sandstorm and Substitute and Life Orb GAH).
- Good with Toxic Spikes support, but not necessary.
- Has to be behind a sub to significantly damage Flygon, but even Life Orb Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO (57.8% - 68.1%).
- Most Flygon, in my experience, will be eager to switch into a Thunderbolt, but will be met with a Substitute and either U-Turn or use Outrage. U-Turn doesn't KO the Substitute, and you can use a Steel-type with an Ice move to switch if it uses Outrage.
Oh, and friendly reminder: If you get one more QC stamp, the sets get transferred to the Rotom-A (New Analysis) in QC.
Moving. Just a final note: this is a very particular set of Rotom, so let's make the writeup as detailed as possible! It's imperative to reflect what this set can do.
EDIT: Curtains, I'm locking this thread and I would like you to PM Seven Deadly Sins the writeup of both sets as soon as you finish them (you can organize this with him however you want). Here's Rotom-A new analysis form, SubSplit Rotom will be placed here. It'd be best to have all the sets compiled in just one thread.
EDIT: Curtains, I'm locking this thread and I would like you to PM Seven Deadly Sins the writeup of both sets as soon as you finish them (you can organize this with him however you want). Here's Rotom-A new analysis form, SubSplit Rotom will be placed here. It'd be best to have all the sets compiled in just one thread.
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