If this meta becomes OMOTM/LCOTM (which is probable at this point), then there should be a command called /scale. Similar to how /mnm and /ts work, it would show the scaled stats of the mon in question.
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Metagame Scalemons
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
There's a bot (One Botty Boi) who does just this using the
Code:
@scaleEdit: sorry user scale for the accidental tag ;-;
just had the first battle a few seconds after it came out, this is gonna be fun https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7scalemons-756157397
This was while mechanics were broken; they will be fixed soon.
Also, thanks for LCotM :]
There is a Viability Ranking in the second post of this thread, but it was entirely theorymonned, so hopefully with people playing this, that will change! I'm very grateful for this opportunity to develop my meta!
Do you have to "call" the bot to do this? How do you do that? After that, do you just type "Scale <Pokemon name>"?
you can just use
/scale [Pokemon], there's a command on PS now.
So what was up with LO Ray instagibbing everything with Extreme Speed?
Scalemons wasnt working right this morning. Idk if its been fixed yet
Edit: was fixed before I made this post
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I can't evolve my rayquaza still - has dragon ascent, no other megas on the team, and it's just holding a yache berry :_:
Just sharing what I think is a pretty neat Mon in this meta, though not entirely viable: Bronzor.
Bulk: 57/192/192
Bronzor Leftovers / sitrus berry
Ability: Levitate / Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 SPD
Nature: Calm
- stealth rock
- toxic
- psywave
- protect / recycle
Unfortunately, it gets no solid recovery. Recycle plus berry is okay, but vulnerable to knock off. Furthermore, Bronzor's pitiful offensive stats make it hard to use gyro ball effectively, forcing it to rely on the varying damage of psywave for attacking. However, its immense defensive stats and solid typing allows it to check Abra (I think, at least non-life orb), Tailow, and Cutiefly. Heatproof can be used with Bulu to provide passive recovery and a drop in power to ground moves. Bulu also appreciates a partner that isn't weak to fire moves, and can check Bulu's other weaknesses: flying, steel, poison, and ice.
Bulk: 57/192/192
Bronzor Leftovers / sitrus berry
Ability: Levitate / Heatproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 SPD
Nature: Calm
- stealth rock
- toxic
- psywave
- protect / recycle
Unfortunately, it gets no solid recovery. Recycle plus berry is okay, but vulnerable to knock off. Furthermore, Bronzor's pitiful offensive stats make it hard to use gyro ball effectively, forcing it to rely on the varying damage of psywave for attacking. However, its immense defensive stats and solid typing allows it to check Abra (I think, at least non-life orb), Tailow, and Cutiefly. Heatproof can be used with Bulu to provide passive recovery and a drop in power to ground moves. Bulu also appreciates a partner that isn't weak to fire moves, and can check Bulu's other weaknesses: flying, steel, poison, and ice.
I'd like to nominate Xerneas for B+. while yes it is nerfed statwise, geomacy remains the best setup move in the game and 112 special attack backed up fairy aura combined with serviceable bulk is not something to take lightly.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
- Ingrain
this set outspeeds abra at +2 and fblast because screw ferrothorn. Xerneas is one of the few setup sweepers to not be walled by quagsire which is quite valuable in this meta.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Moonblast
- Geomancy
- Ingrain
this set outspeeds abra at +2 and fblast because screw ferrothorn. Xerneas is one of the few setup sweepers to not be walled by quagsire which is quite valuable in this meta.
How would Wishiwashi work? Would the stat changes only be in effect in its original form or would it get a boost in schooling form as well?
What about Grimer-Alola?
80/169(!)/106/84/106/53
For example:
Grimer-Alola @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def/SpD
Adamant Nature
Moves:
-Curse
-Shadow Sneak
-Knock Off / Crunch
-Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
It has many other viable moves as well such as Taunt, all the elemental punches, Stone Edge, Stockpile, Snarl, Pain Split, and Infestation.
80/169(!)/106/84/106/53
For example:
Grimer-Alola @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def/SpD
Adamant Nature
Moves:
-Curse
-Shadow Sneak
-Knock Off / Crunch
-Poison Jab / Gunk Shot
It has many other viable moves as well such as Taunt, all the elemental punches, Stone Edge, Stockpile, Snarl, Pain Split, and Infestation.
It is also one of the best counters to both Abra and Ghastly.
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 1008-1188 (527.7 - 621.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Abra Dazzling Gleam vs. 36 HP / 36 SpD Grimer-Alola: 117-138 (37.7 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly: 612-722 (304.4 - 359.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Sludge Bomb vs. 36 HP / 36 SpD Grimer-Alola: 123-146 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
It can’t beat Meditite, which outspeeds and spams Drain Punch.
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meditite: 141-166 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Huge Power Meditite Drain Punch vs. 36 HP / 196 Def Grimer-Alola: 153-181 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
It does beat Carvanha, provided Carvanha doesn’t get the Waterfall flinch:
252+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Waterfall vs. 36 HP / 196 Def Grimer-Alola: 204-242 (65.8 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Carvanha: 325-384 (155.5 - 183.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Because it will go down to anything that can outspeed (most Pokemon, considering that it has a bad speed tier), and hit it with a strong ground move or powerful stab attack, or anything that can live a hit and hit back harder, Alolan Grimer is not as good as it is in other metas based around unevolved or low BST Pokemon.
I find that there are many cool Water type Pokémon that are under used all over the place.
One of my personal favourite Water types is Ludicolo. Ludicolo may not get great stats like the rest of the meta game or have the best coverage, but I always find that it is heavily under appreciated. It now has 80/91/91/117/130/91 stats, giving it an improved 80/91/130 bulk, making it an good candidate for an AV set:
Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Modest Nature
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 Sp. Def
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Scald
- Hydro Pump / Focus Blast
Focus blast is preferred over Hydro Pump, though Hydro Pump is useful as a stronger Water STAB. A LO Swift Swim set could also be used, hitting 618 speed and giving it an actual speed tier.
Another favourite water type of mine is Tentacruel. Tentacruel gets 80/83/77/95/143/119. Another somewhat bulky Water with better special stats and bad speed. What makes Tentacruel a decent mom is its movepool. Tentacruel has access to Acid Spray, Haze, Rapid Spin, And Toxic Spikes on the defensive/utility side. For offensive moves, it gets what one would expect, alongside Knock off, Hex and Giga Drain. The best way to run Tentacruel would likely be as a defensive spinner, as good spinners are hard to come by (though many spinners are buffed).
Speaking of spinners, the best spinner that isn’t named Excadrill is Starmie, which now has 60/88/99/117/89/135. Though that may not be the best, Starmie has possibly the best movepool of any spinner (aside from Smeargle), with access to loves like Thunderbolt, Recover, and Power Gem.
(Note that Staryu and Tentacool do their jobs better than Starmie and Tentacruel respectively)
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Rattata-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- U-turn / Quick Attack / Sucker Punch
30/143/89/63/89/184
This mon is dumb- outspeeds even Abra and hits about as hard as Bunnelby (870 vs 900 attack with CB) but you have an almost perfect STAB combo and access to Pursuit. It kind of ravages both offensive and defensive teams with its speed tier and sheer power, so it should really be seen more. LO works too but I prefer the lack of recoil.
Bellossom @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain
- Safeguard / Aromatherapy / Substitute
75/101/120/113/126/63
This is the type of mon that can just 1v6 unprepared teams. Really bulky with access to Quiver Dance and Strength Sap means it's very hard to deal with offensively and Safeguard means you can't status it. Mono-grass offense is trash but it's one of the few things that holds this back. Grassium-Z is also an option for either a nuke to hit hard without as much set up or to use with Strength Sap, which grants +1 def making you even more obnoxious.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7scalemons-756481765
This replay shows both mons off a lil bit!
You forgot about Shadow Sneak.
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Abra: 278-328 (145.5 - 171.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gastly: 170-200 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Grimer-Alola Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Meditite: 94-112 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- 70.7% chance to 2HKO (Poison Jab + Shadow Sneak = guaranteed KO)
Both formes would be scaled, so in schooling form it's actually a little weaker than regular Wishiwashi-School as that has 620 BST but in solo form it now outspeeds Gastly (...but only hits half as hard as Gastly; then again, your Wishiwashi-School might have weakened it enough for a kill).
I've played a few (literally 2) matches of this meta and I'm really enjoying this particular mom:
Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
Stats: 105/122/102/51/102/115
I consider this set to be the ultimate "band-aid check" to all of the glass cannons running this metagame. A Scrappy Fake Out + Sucker Punch can take out all of the top 3 threats and most other offensive threats fold to the combo after some chip or even after cycling your Kangaskhan's Fake Out for a bit. Check out the (kind of bad) replay to see it put in some work against this very frail meta: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7scalemons-757289991
Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
Stats: 105/122/102/51/102/115
I consider this set to be the ultimate "band-aid check" to all of the glass cannons running this metagame. A Scrappy Fake Out + Sucker Punch can take out all of the top 3 threats and most other offensive threats fold to the combo after some chip or even after cycling your Kangaskhan's Fake Out for a bit. Check out the (kind of bad) replay to see it put in some work against this very frail meta: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7scalemons-757289991
First, I just want to point out that the OP is incorrect about Fomantis learning Superpower (under the "Contrary Users" header).
Second, I don't care too much about this at the end of the day, but I see little reason for DeepSeaScale to be banned, especially because non-HP scaling means Clamperl's base HP lets its defenses down even more. Add this to the fact that it has no reliable recovery and DSS Clamperl would not be a broken wall by any means (not with threats like Abra anyway), and it would probably prefer Tank/Set-up sets where the extra Special bulk facilitates Shell Smash set-up (see calcs). In these obviously more viable roles, DSS would allow it to check some top sweepers and potentially counter-sweep, but because it comes at the cost using LO (which is mostly better anyway), Sash, or even White Herb as well as necessitating some bulk investment for checking the biggest sweepers, it wouldn't nearly be overpowered/overcentralizing imo (and I am interpreting "all viable signature items are banned" as "all overcentralizing signature items are banned", maybe my interpretation on this 'ruling' is wrong here).
Clamperl @ Deep Sea Scale
Timid/Hasty Nature
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 132 HP / 132 SpA / 240 Spe (The HP and SpA investment are slightly variable between each other but 240 Spe is all you need to outspeed the unboosted threats it can actually take on imo)
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass/Waterfall
Exemplary Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Abra Energy Ball vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 187-221 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Clamperl Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Abra: 213-252 (111.5 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+2 Max Speed Clamperl still fails to outspeed this and can only OHKO with Waterfall requiring you to run mixed SS Clamperl, which can limit it otherwise)
252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 179-213 (73.3 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 124 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gastly: 363-427 (180.5 - 212.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Clamperl: 207-243 (84.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 318-375 (112.3 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Vulpix-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 102-120 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Vulpix-Alola: 208-246 (95.8 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Staryu Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 127-151 (52 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Staryu: 244-288 (121.3 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
obv Clef tho:
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
So yeah despite these calcs, this mon is still balanced with DSS, so unban it pls thenk you :D
Disclaimer: I haven't played much on the actual ladder yet, so I could be wrong in this judgment.
Second, I don't care too much about this at the end of the day, but I see little reason for DeepSeaScale to be banned, especially because non-HP scaling means Clamperl's base HP lets its defenses down even more. Add this to the fact that it has no reliable recovery and DSS Clamperl would not be a broken wall by any means (not with threats like Abra anyway), and it would probably prefer Tank/Set-up sets where the extra Special bulk facilitates Shell Smash set-up (see calcs). In these obviously more viable roles, DSS would allow it to check some top sweepers and potentially counter-sweep, but because it comes at the cost using LO (which is mostly better anyway), Sash, or even White Herb as well as necessitating some bulk investment for checking the biggest sweepers, it wouldn't nearly be overpowered/overcentralizing imo (and I am interpreting "all viable signature items are banned" as "all overcentralizing signature items are banned", maybe my interpretation on this 'ruling' is wrong here).
Clamperl @ Deep Sea Scale
Timid/Hasty Nature
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 132 HP / 132 SpA / 240 Spe (The HP and SpA investment are slightly variable between each other but 240 Spe is all you need to outspeed the unboosted threats it can actually take on imo)
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass/Waterfall
Exemplary Calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Abra Energy Ball vs. 144 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 187-221 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Clamperl Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Abra: 213-252 (111.5 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+2 Max Speed Clamperl still fails to outspeed this and can only OHKO with Waterfall requiring you to run mixed SS Clamperl, which can limit it otherwise)
252 SpA Life Orb Gastly Energy Ball vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 179-213 (73.3 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 124 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gastly: 363-427 (180.5 - 212.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Clamperl: 207-243 (84.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Pheromosa: 318-375 (112.3 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Vulpix-Alola Freeze-Dry vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 102-120 (41.8 - 49.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO after hail damage
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Vulpix-Alola: 208-246 (95.8 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Staryu Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Deep Sea Scale Clamperl: 127-151 (52 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Staryu: 244-288 (121.3 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
obv Clef tho:
+2 136 SpA Clamperl Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 121-144 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
So yeah despite these calcs, this mon is still balanced with DSS, so unban it pls thenk you :D
Disclaimer: I haven't played much on the actual ladder yet, so I could be wrong in this judgment.